mwm@eris.BERKELEY.EDU (Mike (My watch has windows) Meyer) (10/21/87)
Warning: I'm about to vent a lot of steam at Commodore. Gee, what a neat buy-back program. Something else to leave me stuck with obsolete hardware. I bought into the Amiga expansion market early, buying an 2-slot 86-pin expansion and a half-full 8Meg board for same early last summer. So this summer, I go looking for a hard disk. Guess what? You can't get 86-pin disk controllers, period. Something about Commode-door changing the standard for the expansion interface. So I decide to try and treat the old package as a SOTS board, and get a disk controller to add in front of/in back of the thing. No go - after spending three months trying to find a controller/disk combination that would recompile mg1b without crashing, I give up. Sell the old expansion (eating $500 on the way), and use the money that had been put up for the hard disk to buy a similar expansion with Zorro slots. Only to find out that it's now obsolete and the makers of one of the boards I was interested in aren't doing Zorro I anymore. It seems that there's a new machine from Commode that has a different physical bus so they could put it in a different shape. Marvelous, just effing marvelous. The A2000, with the keyboard that makes my fingers ache, that ugly IBM-PC look, no keyboard garage, no pencil holder, etc. is what I'm asked to upgrade to. Not bloody likely. But now I hear "The 1000 -> 2000 upgrade is being offered only to A1000 owners. That should tell you what we have in mind for the 1000." And the A2000 has hooks for more CHIP ram, and the video slot. Well, maybe I can be talked into it. But you see, I've still got this "old" card. Since the standard changed again, it won't work in the new machine. And there's not much chance of getting anything back for it. The best that can be done would be to buy a bare A2000 card and move the chips. And wind up eating the cost of the bare board + $1000, just to get back to where I am now. Thanx, but no thanx. I'll stay with a machine designed by someone who knows the meaning of "ergonomics," and when it dies change to a machine from a company that understands that changing buses is not something one does on a yearly basis. <mike -- Round about, round about, in a fair ring-a. Mike Meyer Thus we dance, thus we dance, and thus we sing-a. mwm@berkeley.edu Trip and go, to and fro, over this green-a. ucbvax!mwm All about, in and out, over this green-a. mwm@ucbjade.BITNET
andy@cbmvax.UUCP (Andy Finkel) (10/21/87)
In article <5550@jade.BERKELEY.EDU> mwm@eris.BERKELEY.EDU (Mike (My watch has windows) Meyer) writes: >Warning: I'm about to vent a lot of steam at Commodore. >But you see, I've still got this "old" card. Since the standard >changed again, it won't work in the new machine. And there's not much >chance of getting anything back for it. The best that can be done >would be to buy a bare A2000 card and move the chips. And wind up >eating the cost of the bare board + $1000, just to get back to where I >am now. Ah, Perry ? Are you there ? This is your cue, right ? The ASDG 2000-and-1 may be the answer for you... > >Thanx, but no thanx. I'll stay with a machine designed by someone who >knows the meaning of "ergonomics," and when it dies change to a >machine from a company that understands that changing buses is not >something one does on a yearly basis. Bus didn't change, just board size. I have a Zorro board at home hooked to my A1000 and have both types of cards plugged into it. I can't believe the form factor change is a surprise, though. The net flamed about it over a year ago. > > <mike -- andy finkel {ihnp4|seismo|allegra}!cbmvax!andy Commodore-Amiga, Inc. "Interfere? Of course we'll interfere. Always do what you're best at, I always say." Any expressed opinions are mine; but feel free to share. I disclaim all responsibilities, all shapes, all sizes, all colors.
wilkes@beatnix.UUCP (John Wilkes) (10/22/87)
mwm@eris.BERKELEY.EDU (Mike (My watch has windows) Meyer) writes: >Warning: I'm about to vent a lot of steam at Commodore. > >Gee, what a neat buy-back program. Something else to leave me stuck >with obsolete hardware. [You hear a loud hissing - the sound of escaping steam...] >But now I hear "The 1000 -> 2000 upgrade is being offered only to >A1000 owners. That should tell you what we have in mind for the 1000." >And the A2000 has hooks for more CHIP ram, and the video slot. Well, Yeah, I'm pretty disenchanted with Comode-or myself. Especially the above quotation that recently emenated from somewhere in Pennsylvania. (Hi, George. I hope you don't get in deep yogurt for that one.) Let's look at this buy back deal that's been touted as such a Good Thing. When I bought my Amiga back in September 1985, I paid something on the order of $3000 for the privilege. (This for 512K, 1080 monitor, external 3.5in floppy drive.) I bought my machine from a dealer, one of the first they got. I had to wait 3 months or so to buy the Amiga C compiler. This C compiler was actually Lattice C. Now Lattice C has been upgraded *twice* since then, but I have not heard a peep out of Commode-or. We won't talk about the so-called Amiga Lisp or Amiga Pascal products. Sometime later I coughed up $700 for one of the first commercially available 2M ram expansion boards. As mwm pointed out, this board is now incompatible with everything else in the expansion marketplace, thanks to the oft-changed expansion specs from Commode-or. I figure I've got easily over $4000 invested in this now-obsolete system. And now they want me to spend an additional $1000 for the privilege of turning in my A1000 for a A2000? Then more $$$ for 2M of expansion ram? (Didn't I already pay for that once?) How much more $$$ for a hard disk? No thanks. I spent my $2400 on somebody else's obsolete hardware. One of those 3-letter companies (no, not *that* one, I'll never own one of *those*). Yep, a 68010, 2M ram, 64M hard disk, unix V.3 (mostly). Comes with free 90 day hotline support at an 800 number. If it breaks in the first 90 days, someone comes out to my house to fix it. It's called various names, like unix-pc, 7300, and 3b1. And it's not really made by AT&T, whose name is on it. And it's a discontinued product. But it doesn't crash when I make a programming error in an application (i.e., user level) program. And it has a much larger base of public domain software. And it's on the net, sending and receiving mail. And it runs real emacs (well, not *real* real emacs - you need a PDP-10 and teco for that.) (No offense to the mwm and mg1, but it's not GNU emacs, is it?) It runs ksh. Oh, I see I'm boring you. Sorry. I'll still keep my A1000, if only to be able to see Leo's work. Besides, I've got over 4 grand in it, and what could I get for it, $1500 maybe? For a two year old computer! (I'll listen to offers - send mail.) Remember the five finger trick? Or was it the middle finger trick? "Amiga, born a Champion" "We made Amiga, they f*ck*d it up" > <mike john -- John Wilkes --- UUCP: (work) {ucbvax,ihnp4}!sun!elxsi!wilkes UUCP: (home) {ucbvax,ihnp4}!sun!elxsi!maow!john ARPA: elxsi!wilkes@lll-tis.ARPA USPS: ELXSI Ltd., 2334 Lundy Pl., San Jose, CA 95131 BELL: (work) (408) 942-0900
grr@cbmvax.UUCP (10/22/87)
In article <598@elxsi.UUCP> wilkes@beatnix.UUCP (John Wilkes) writes: > mwm@eris.BERKELEY.EDU (Mike (My watch has windows) Meyer) writes: > >Warning: I'm about to vent a lot of steam at Commodore. > > > >Gee, what a neat buy-back program. Something else to leave me stuck > >with obsolete hardware. > > [You hear a loud hissing - the sound of escaping steam...] > > >But now I hear "The 1000 -> 2000 upgrade is being offered only to > >A1000 owners. That should tell you what we have in mind for the 1000." > >And the A2000 has hooks for more CHIP ram, and the video slot. Well, > > Yeah, I'm pretty disenchanted with Comode-or myself. Especially the above > quotation that recently emenated from somewhere in Pennsylvania. (Hi, > George. I hope you don't get in deep yogurt for that one.) Nah. If you'll check, it's not a quotation, rather it's an interpretation by a rather unhappy Mike Meyer. This follows a prolonged trail of discussion about the possibilities of upgrading A1000's and what Commodore has done to/for the A1000 owner. I've previously pointed out that I don't believe that a simple slap in/on chip upgrade for the A1000 is technically feasible. Some people feel that they've been left in the lurch by the direction that Commodore took with the A2000. I merely note that Commodore has in fact extended an upgrade offer to those A1000 owners. It may or may not appeal the a particular A1000 owner, depending on their configuration, interests, loyalties, etc. My intention was to point out that this is an offer that Commodore has put on the table and to politely discourage wishful thinking about options that might well fail to materialize sometime after the expiration of said upgrade offer. -- George Robbins - now working for, uucp: {ihnp4|rutgers|allegra}!cbmvax!grr but no way officially representing arpa: out to lunch... Commodore, Engineering Department fone: 215-431-9255 (only by moonlite)
harald@ccicpg.UUCP ( Harald Milne) (10/22/87)
In article <598@elxsi.UUCP>, wilkes@beatnix.UUCP (John Wilkes) writes: > mwm@eris.BERKELEY.EDU (Mike (My watch has windows) Meyer) writes: > >Warning: I'm about to vent a lot of steam at Commodore. > > > >Gee, what a neat buy-back program. Something else to leave me stuck > >with obsolete hardware. In case anybody misunderstood, buy back means get the A2000 and keep your original A1000. I still have mine becuase, 1) I like it, and 2) I have investments in it that I want to keep. What's the problem? Of course all this depends on your local dealers policy. CBM doesn't support the "buy back" option. Just the "upgrade". How many options do you wan't? Imperial Business Machines? 8^) I "kept" my A1000 for $250, and got the A2000 at $1000 off retail. Not bad if you ask me! Somebody else did it for $50! -- Work: Computer Consoles Inc. (CCI), Advanced Development Group (ADG) Irvine, CA (RISCy business! Home of the CCI POWER 6/32) UUCP: uunet!ccicpg!harald
higgin@cbmvax.UUCP (Paul Higginbottom SALES) (10/22/87)
in article <598@elxsi.UUCP>, wilkes@beatnix.UUCP (John Wilkes) says: > When I bought my Amiga back in September 1985, I paid something on > the order of $3000 for the privilege. (This for 512K, 1080 monitor, > external 3.5in floppy drive.) I fail to see how you spent this much. The SUGGESTED LIST PRICES were: $1295 195 495 295 ----- $2280 > I had to wait 3 months or so to buy the Amiga C compiler. This C compiler > was actually Lattice C. Now Lattice C has been upgraded *twice* since > then, but I have not heard a peep out of Commode-or. Lattice will upgrade their products that were sold under our name, so you can talk to them. > Sometime later I coughed up $700 for one of the first commercially > available 2M ram expansion boards. > As mwm pointed out, this board is now incompatible with everything else > in the expansion marketplace, thanks to the oft-changed expansion specs > from Commode-or. I figure I've got easily over $4000 invested in this > now-obsolete system. I make that $2280 + $700, which is $2980, not $4000. > And now they want me to spend an additional $1000 for > the privilege of turning in my A1000 for a A2000? Let's look at this more closely. There are still tons of A1000's out there, so I see no reason why you couldn't sell your memory add-on board at a user group to an A1000 owner. Beside the memory, let's look at your other products. The monitor and external disk drive can be used with the A2000. The only product not part of our trade-in which would be of no further use to you is the A1050 256K RAM, so the value of your trade-in (what you paid for it, worst case) is: $1295 195 ----- $1490 The A2000 upgrade program is essentially a $995 trade-in value for your A1000 ($1995 - $1000 = $995). Therefore, if we're offering a $995 trade-in, and your outlay was $1490, that's only $500 depreciation in over two years. I'd say that's not bad. Has IBM offered a program for the PS/2 line? > Then more $$$ for 2M of expansion ram? Which if you've sold your perfectly good A1000 RAM, that money can go toward. > How much more $$$ for a hard disk? Which you currently don't even own and are not forced to buy and which is a less expensive peripheral on the A2000 than it is on the A1000 so you're saving money there. > No thanks. I spent my $2400 on somebody else's obsolete hardware. > [describes discontinued UNIX box]. I hope you'll be very happy with your decision. > I'll still keep my A1000, if only to be able to see Leo's work. > Remember the five finger trick? Or was it the middle finger trick? I'll say it again - whoever believes this is clearly in the minority based on the overwhelming success of our trade-in program, and our current sales volume. > John Wilkes --- UUCP: (work) {ucbvax,ihnp4}!sun!elxsi!wilkes Paul.
page@ulowell.UUCP (10/22/87)
What the hell are you bitching about?
You don't have to upgrade to an A2000. Hardware suppliers *still*
sell memory and hard disks for the A1000. If you're that bent on
having an A2000 memory board, buy a 2000 expansion box for your 1000.
So you have SOTS peripherals that won't work with the expansion box?
Sell them. There are >100K Amiga 1000's out there, somebody will buy.
For me, I think I'd rather spend the $1000 on two or three more A1000s.
..Bob
--
Bob Page, U of Lowell CS Dept. page@ulowell.{uucp,edu,csnet} hedley@cbmvax.UUCP (Hedley Davis) (10/22/87)
>> >>Gee, what a neat buy-back program. Something else to leave me stuck >>with obsolete hardware. > >Yeah, I'm pretty disenchanted with Comode-or myself. You guys MUST be kidding ! I bought a VCR a long time ago. It doesn't have HQ. It doesn't have MTS. It doesn't have eighty gizillion nice features. Nobody offered me an upgrade on that. The car I bought several years ago is not as nice as the new ones. Its upgrade is no better than the a1000->a2000. My five year old calculator has no upgrade policy. Whats the deal ? I guess if you were running things, we'd have consumer protection groups making so that you had to upgrade everything for free. Of course this would cause the cost of innovation to exceed any potential benifits, leading to a complete halt in any effort to innovate. The price of buying electronics today is that they depreciate. Better electronics will be available in the future at a better price. Inherently, the A2000 has many more capabilities than the A1000. The fact we offer any upgrade at all does not alter the fact that your machine still runs, and does everything we said it would as well as we would. You bought something, and you got a fair deal. The upgrade is not on a par with the second coming. We do not claim this. However, it IS pure gravy. It gives you an option. We are under no obligation to offer this. Its a pretty damn nice thing to do. I'm sorry you don't like the basic realities of buying something, and having something better come along later. Perhaps a discussion of the inherent faults of innovation and improvement should be moved to comp.stone.age or net.electonics.tube or net.count.with.sticks. Hedley Davis
dillon@CORY.BERKELEY.EDU (Matt Dillon) (10/22/87)
>I've previously pointed out that I don't believe that a simple slap in/on chip >upgrade for the A1000 is technically feasible. Some people feel that they've >been left in the lurch by the direction that Commodore took with the A2000. I >merely note that Commodore has in fact extended an upgrade offer to those A1000 >owners. It may or may not appeal the a particular A1000 owner, depending on >their configuration, interests, loyalties, etc. And it should be noted that both run the same OS and correctly written programs (read correctly written copyprotection or no copyprotection). Compatibility is much better, in fact, than either the ATARI(s), IBM(s), or MAC(s), where most programs depend on hardwired memory/hardware locations to work properly. -Matt
disd@hubcap.UUCP (10/23/87)
in article <2578@cbmvax.UUCP>, hedley@cbmvax.UUCP (Hedley Davis) says: > You guys MUST be kidding ! > > I bought a VCR a long time ago. > It doesn't have HQ. > It doesn't have MTS. > It doesn't have eighty gizillion nice features. > [Other examples of things which have no upgrade policies.] > > Whats the deal ? I guess if you were running things, we'd have consumer > protection groups making so that you had to upgrade everything for free. > Of course this would cause the cost of innovation to exceed any > potential benifits, leading to a complete halt in any effort to > innovate. > > The price of buying electronics today is that they depreciate. Better > electronics will be available in the future at a better price. > > Inherently, the A2000 has many more capabilities than the A1000. > The fact we offer any upgrade at all does not alter the fact that your > machine still runs, and does everything we said it would as well as we > would. You bought something, and you got a fair deal. > Essentially, I agree with what you say. I'm an A1000 owner who is, by the way, pleased with the machine and who has no intention of purchasing an A2000. I understand that I might be left in the dust, but for the moment, I've got an exciting home computer which could keep me happy and busy for years. Forgive me if this has been discussed before, but I don't recall it. Why was there no consideration of an A1000-A500 sidegrade? I know that the net crowd consists largely of power users, but surely there must be a few of us who don't give a flip about Bridge cards and who don't mind a box or two hanging off of our machines. I have no major objections to the VT200-style keyboard and, though I like the detachable keyboard, I could be content with the all-in-one design of the 500, if it gave me the chance to increase my CHIP RAM. I simply can't afford to plunk down another $1000. Why are there no A1000 + $100 = A500 deals? (Or some such dollar figure.) Anyone aware of any dealers with such a deal? I have no wish to try to sell my A1000. > Hedley Davis Gary ************************************************************************** * Gary Heffelfinger Employed by Clemson Univ. but certainly not * speaking for it. **************************************************************************
acs@amdahl.amdahl.com (Tony Sumrall) (10/23/87)
Awright, look...I've had my 1000 for about 2 yrs. I haven't invested a LOT of money in it but I have invested some. What's bothering me (and probably a lot of other people) is that I *think* that the peripheral market is gonna dry up on the 1000: that companies are gonna make 2000/500-only periphs. This doesn't obsolete our machines but it makes life a bit more difficult for us (quite a bit more difficult). If I had the money to sink into a 2000 I'd do it NOW!--but I don't so I can't. I'm not mad at Commodore for coming out with the 2000 or the 500, I just wish that *one* of them had the same upgrade path that the 1000 does. It may be possible to build some kind of converter-thingie that will allow 500 periphs to be slapped onto a 1000 and it may not. If it were possible and someone built one I'd feel a lot better (not *good*, just better). The other thing that's bothering me is that I don't know *for sure* that Commodore will offer KS upgrades on floppy. I've asked that question of the net before and got a rather re-assuring response from Bart but I'd like it if someone else from Cmdr would come forward and put my mind at rest. I am quite pleased with the buy-back deal and am *very* impressed that it has been offered. (Can't think of any other micro company that's made that offer, can you?) -- Tony Sumrall acs@amdahl.com <=> amdahl!acs [ Opinions expressed herein are the author's and should not be construed to reflect the views of Amdahl Corp. ]
andy@cbmvax.UUCP (Andy Finkel) (10/23/87)
In article <16788@amdahl.amdahl.com> acs@amdahl.amdahl.com (Tony Sumrall) writes: >The other thing that's bothering me is that I don't know *for sure* that >Commodore will offer KS upgrades on floppy. All right, how's this: It would be silly for Commodore not to continue to release OS upgrades on Kickstart because a) 170,000 computer owners is nothing to sneeze at, b) it takes little effort to release a Kickstart disk at the same time as a Kickstart rom c) When we charge a reasonable fee so we don't lose money, the accountants in the company don't look at us funny d) you could always put the rom image onto a diskette Feel better ? andy -- andy finkel {ihnp4|seismo|allegra}!cbmvax!andy Commodore-Amiga, Inc. "Interfere? Of course we'll interfere. Always do what you're best at, I always say." Any expressed opinions are mine; but feel free to share. I disclaim all responsibilities, all shapes, all sizes, all colors.
page@ulowell.cs.ulowell.edu (Bob Page) (10/23/87)
acs@amdahl.amdahl.com (Tony Sumrall) wrote: >What's bothering me ... is that I *think* that the peripheral >market is gonna dry up on the 1000 Alas, this is probably the only real beef (keyboard layout and no garage notwithstanding) that MOST people have with the 2000 ... the periphs are not compatible with the A1000. Perry stated some time ago on USENET that "the 2000-and-1 will ship when the A2000 ships" so I assume it can't be too far off. As long as it's under $1000, you can have your A1000 cake AND eat A2000 cake too, for less than upgrading your A1000 to a A2000. And you don't have to decide before November 30 or whenever CBM's special ends. I assume that other vendors are looking into this potentially lucrative market as well. >The other thing that's bothering me is that I don't know *for sure* >that Commodore will offer KS upgrades on floppy. Even *I* can't believe that CBM would be so silly as to alienate all their A1000 owners. First of all, now that KS is in ROM, we won't see upgrades with the speed that we saw v28->etc->1.0->1.1->1.2. When they do occur, we can always copy the ROM's to disk, no? Maybe not legally, but underhanded actions deserve underhanded responses. Then all we'd have to do is scrounge for documentation. In any case, I don't think we should worry about KS. ..Bob PS Kids, I don't condone doing anything that might be considered illegal. -- Bob Page, U of Lowell CS Dept. page@ulowell.{uucp,edu,csnet}
acphssrw@csun.UUCP (Stephen R. Walton) (10/24/87)
In article <5550@jade.BERKELEY.EDU> mwm@eris.BERKELEY.EDU (Mike (My watch has windows) Meyer) writes: >Warning: I'm about to vent a lot of steam at Commodore. > >I bought into the Amiga expansion market early, buying an 2-slot >86-pin expansion and a half-full 8Meg board for same early last >summer. [I assume Mike means summer '86 here; summer '87 is now "last summer."] Why? I bought my Amiga in spring '86 and already knew then about the Zorro spec and knew not to buy anything other than a full up Zorro box. It seems to me Perry was already posting his er, uhm, "comments" about Amiga expansion then. >Marvelous, just effing marvelous. The A2000, with the keyboard that >makes my fingers ache, that ugly IBM-PC look, no keyboard garage, no >pencil holder, etc. is what I'm asked to upgrade to. Not bloody >likely. But after comparing an A2000 with an A1000 with an ASDG 2000-and-1 attached, which do you prefer? I don't have enough real estate on my desk for the latter. >Thanx, but no thanx. I'll stay with a machine designed by someone who >knows the meaning of "ergonomics," and when it dies change to a >machine from a company that understands that changing buses is not >something one does on a yearly basis. My understanding is this: The people who sold 86-pin boxes had no business doing so; there was never anything from CBM indicating such a box would work. The original Zorro I 100-pin spec changed several times, which basically had the effect that very few people built any hardware to it, ASDG being the almost sole exception; most everything else was slap-on-the-side, and people who bought those (like my Alegra) knew we were buying non-standard stuff even 18 months ago. Now, CBM has finally released a machine with a standard, well documented well supported internal expansion bus, and the hardware developers were told about the new bus far enough in advance that the expansion hardware was ready before the A2000 actually shipped in the US. Doesn't sound too bad to me.
acs@amdahl.amdahl.com (Tony Sumrall) (10/24/87)
In article <2584@cbmvax.UUCP> andy@cbmvax.UUCP (Andy Finkel) writes: >In article <16788@amdahl.amdahl.com> acs@amdahl.amdahl.com (Tony Sumrall) writes: >>The other thing that's bothering me is that I don't know *for sure* that >>Commodore will offer KS upgrades on floppy. > >All right, how's this: >It would be silly for Commodore not to continue to release OS upgrades >on Kickstart because > (sound reasons) >Feel better ? You betcha. Thanks Andy. Now if only the POWERS THAT BE will agree with you... >andy finkel {ihnp4|seismo|allegra}!cbmvax!andy >Commodore-Amiga, Inc. -- Tony Sumrall acs@amdahl.com <=> amdahl!acs [ Opinions expressed herein are the author's and should not be construed to reflect the views of Amdahl Corp. ]
brianr@tekig4.TEK.COM (Brian Rhodefer) (10/24/87)
I have a friend who would like to own an amiga, but is involved with a fledgling business and balks at the price. Fortunately, his brother owns a bare-bones A1000, and, because of some specific software package, wishes to switch to a Mac, giving the A1000 to my friend. So straightened are my friend's funds, however, that he'll have a hard time just buying an external 3.5" drive. His view of the situation was very interesting: An external 3.5" drive costs damn near as much as an entire (used) A1000 seems to be worth today! Why not buy another A1000, and use it as "a VERY well buffered intelligent disk server"? Would it be difficult to network two amigae this way, say, through their parallel ports? If easily done, it might be attractive to music synthesis folks: eight voices! Still too ignorant of AmigaDOS to assess the difficulty, Brian Rhodefer
wilkes@beatnix.UUCP (John Wilkes) (10/25/87)
In several of the numerous followups to my diatribe against Commodore, the question was asked, "What's your problem?" Well, here goes. What set me off was a comment made in the following article: In article <2531@cbmvax.UUCP> grr@cbmvax.UUCP (George Robbins) writes: >In article <311@apctrc.UUCP> lbrown@apctrc.UUCP (Lawrence H. Brown) writes: >> In article <2345@cbmvax.UUCP: grr@cbmvax.UUCP (George Robbins) writes: >> :In article <2948@hoptoad.uucp> slc@hoptoad.UUCP (Steve Costa) writes: >> :> >> :> Is there any substance to the rumor that Commodore will make custom chips >> :> for the A500 and A2000 that be able to use 1 Meg of chip ram? Where does >> :> that leave us A1000 owners? I have not been considering upgrading to the /* stuff deleted */ >> But then again, maybe the reasoning is not to reveal stuff like that to avoid >> talking about things that don't already solidly exist, or maybe because C-A's >> moving away from the A1000. Whatever... /* more stuff deleted */ /* here it comes, this really got me going: */ >I would also point out that Commodore is keeping the brave souls who >bought the A1000 in mind by offering them and only them the special >A1000 -> A2000 upgrade deal. This deal may or may not appeal to you, >but please comtemplate what it suggests about Commodore's plans for >the future... > >-- >George Robbins - now working for, uucp: {ihnp4|rutgers|allegra}!cbmvax!grr Rightly or wrongly, I (and a few others I see) interpreted this to mean that Commodore had given us the opportunity to upgrade to a 2000, so that we should not whine sometime in the future when the 1000 is abandoned. I feel like $4000 is enough to have invested in a computer that crashes almost without fail whenever I go into program-writing mode (silly me, I continue to have bugs in my code). If the intent of the above statement is significantly different from my reading, I would like to be corrected. I would welcome such a correction. However, it sure sounds to me like "Commodore's plans for the future" don't include me owning a A1000. One of the numerous followups asked if I get upset each year when a newer and better and faster car comes out, obsoleting the model I currently own. Of course not. However, I would like to point out that I can still go to the Volvo dealer and buy relacement parts for my 1969 Volvo 142. I can still take my 1969 Volvo to the Volvo dealer and get it fixed. Can the same be said for my A1000 now? Probably yes. Can the same be said about my A1000 a year from now? I don't know. Just what *are* Commodore's plans for the future regarding the A1000's that are still out there? What are Commodore's plans for the Zorro *0* (not Zorro I, not Zorro II) memory board I own? (That's a rhetorical question, son, rhetorical.) To the person who added up suggested retail prices and could not figure out how I paid $3000 for my original purchase, the answer is twofold. First part: software. Amiga C, Amiga Pascal, Amiga Lisp, Manx C developers, Deluxe Paint. I have purchased several other software packages since. I also bought a printer, but I don't count it, because it can obviously be used on non-Amiga computers. Second part: sales tax. Not that Commodore has anything to do with sales tax, but in arriving at the three grand number, I am counting what left my pocket as a result of purchasing an Amiga A1000 computer. I *like* my Amiga, for what it is. I just can't justify coughing up an additional $1000 for the A2000 + more $ for 2M ram (that I already bought once) + more $ for a hard disk (that I don't have for the A1000 but I covet.) I prefer the A1000 with the keyboard garage, with (from available reports) better quality construction overall, with the quieter fan. I am disappointed that peripheral add-on compatibility was not maintained between the A1000 and either the A500 or the A2000 (or both - what a concept). I feel like Commodore has left me twisting in the wind, and they're not getting any more of *my* money. I hope the new A500 and A2000 are successes. I hope Commodore has settled once and for all on their expansion bus. I hope Commodore continues to support me and all the other "brave souls who bought the A1000" and choose not to buy the A2000. In 1979, I bought an Apple ][, and Apple *still* supports *it*. Disclaimer: I am not Ed Chaban. ;-) -- John Wilkes --- UUCP: (work) {ucbvax,ihnp4}!sun!elxsi!wilkes UUCP: (home) {ucbvax,ihnp4}!sun!elxsi!maow!john ARPA: elxsi!wilkes@lll-tis.ARPA USPS: ELXSI Ltd., 2334 Lundy Pl., San Jose, CA 95131 BELL: (work) (408) 942-0900
dillon@CORY.BERKELEY.EDU (Matt Dillon) (10/25/87)
:All right, how's this: :It would be silly for Commodore not to continue to release OS upgrades :on Kickstart because : (sound reasons) :Feel better ? Not only that, but if they decided *not* to, we hackers would have a working image -> disk within a week. Besides, C-A probably *tests* the new OS versions from a boot-disk.... much better than having to burn an eprom or two. -Matt
grr@cbmvax.UUCP (George Robbins) (10/26/87)
In article <8710250901.AA17608@cory.Berkeley.EDU> dillon@CORY.BERKELEY.EDU (Matt Dillon) writes: > :All right, how's this: > :It would be silly for Commodore not to continue to release OS upgrades > :on Kickstart because > : (sound reasons) > :Feel better ? > > Not only that, but if they decided *not* to, we hackers would have > a working image -> disk within a week. Besides, C-A probably *tests* > the new OS versions from a boot-disk.... much better than having to burn an > eprom or two. > > -Matt Yep, not only that, but the normal process for making ROM's is to make a floppy, test same, load into an A1000, use a hardware emulator to transfer the RAM/ROM contents to an EPROM programmer, burn 4-8 EPROM's, test EPROM's using ROM tower, send EPROM's to ROM vendor, wait for ROM's, test ROM's. Note that the floppy is available long before the ROM's. I can't really see any way it wouldn't be to our advantage to do a dual distribution, expecially since, at least for now, the software is the same thing, albeit on different media. -- George Robbins - now working for, uucp: {ihnp4|rutgers|allegra}!cbmvax!grr but no way officially representing arpa: out to lunch... Commodore, Engineering Department fone: 215-431-9255 (only by moonlite)
andy@cbmvax.UUCP (Andy Finkel) (10/27/87)
In article <603@elxsi.UUCP> wilkes@beatnix.UUCP (John Wilkes) writes: >What are Commodore's plans for the Zorro *0* (not Zorro I, not Zorro >II) memory board I own? (That's a rhetorical question, son, rhetorical.) What's a Zorro *0* ? -- andy finkel {ihnp4|seismo|allegra}!cbmvax!andy Commodore-Amiga, Inc. "Interfere? Of course we'll interfere. Always do what you're best at, I always say." Any expressed opinions are mine; but feel free to share. I disclaim all responsibilities, all shapes, all sizes, all colors.