[comp.sys.amiga] More stuff from info-68k

mwm@VIOLET.BERKELEY.EDU (Mike Meyer, My watch has windows) (10/31/87)

First, it was noted (but I didn't forward the letter) that John
Gilmore had missed an important detail on the 68070. Namely, that the
clock cycles he was looking at were internal clock cycles, and that
the internal clock runs at twice the frequency of the external clock.
So those twice-the-cycle delays were actually the same length as the
MC68K chips. In summary:

All on chip: the 68070 is about twice the speed of the MC68Ks
Off chip, no MMU: identical to the MC68Ks
Off chip, with MMU: 50% more time than the MC68Ks (1/2 an external clock)

Who's going to be the first person to try one in an Amiga?

We also have data on the 68882 (for you FP freaks):

------- Forwarded
From: tikal!amc!motsea@beaver.cs.washington.edu  (Motorola Seattle )
Organization: Applied Microsystems Corp., Redmond, WA.
Subject: Re: MC68030 & MC68882 now out and available; comparisons with MC68020?
Message-Id: <542@amc.UUCP>
References: <4733@elroy.Jpl.Nasa.Gov>
Sender: info-68k-request@ucbvax.berkeley.edu
To: info-68k@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU

The 68882  *** IS *** a drop in replacement for the 68881. By reconfiguring
the internal architecture [primarily in floating point register access], it
is able to achieve typically 50% better performance than an 881 [all other
factors being equal], and can go 2x with minor code mods...

			...mark konopacky   fae   motorola  seattle
			email: ...uw-beaver!tikal!motsea!mark

[I am fortunate to use Applied Microsystems' node for news...]
<< Standard Disclaimer >>

------- End of Forwarded Message

So, anybody know how much of the code floating around for the 68881
will take advantage of the 68882 (sorta like Lattice 4.0 takes
advantage of the 68010)? Dale?

	<mike

grr@cbmvax.UUCP (11/02/87)

In article <8710302351.AA27916@violet.berkeley.edu> mwm@VIOLET.BERKELEY.EDU (Mike  Meyer, My watch has windows) writes:
> First, it was noted (but I didn't forward the letter) that John
> Gilmore had missed an important detail on the 68070. Namely, that the
> clock cycles he was looking at were internal clock cycles, and that
> the internal clock runs at twice the frequency of the external clock.
> So those twice-the-cycle delays were actually the same length as the
> MC68K chips. In summary:
> 
> All on chip: the 68070 is about twice the speed of the MC68Ks
> Off chip, no MMU: identical to the MC68Ks
> Off chip, with MMU: 50% more time than the MC68Ks (1/2 an external clock)
> 
> Who's going to be the first person to try one in an Amiga?

There are two immediate problems you have to deal with:

a) the 2x clock is a problem, since the 68000/Amiga Custom Chip interface
   requires that the 7MHz "effective" processor clock be syncronized with
   the clocks that chips work with.  There is no documented way to bypass
   the internal clock divider or reset it a known state.

b) the discrete interrupt request lines are inadequate, since the interrupt
   encoding in Paula uses at least 6 interrupt levels.

There are probably some other, more minor problems, but it's been a while
since I look at the 68070 carefully.  At that point it was all vapor, with
no commited date for samples, let alone production.  There also didn't seem
to be any real commitment to making the chip cheap, i.e. it might always
be significantly more expensive than a 68010 and a gate array implementation
of the same sort of MMU function.  The MMU itself is a bit whacky, you either
get big coarse segments, or smaller segments and a lot of exceptions to
handle.

> We also have data on the 68882 (for you FP freaks):
> 
> The 68882  *** IS *** a drop in replacement for the 68881. By reconfiguring
> the internal architecture [primarily in floating point register access], it
> is able to achieve typically 50% better performance than an 881 [all other
> factors being equal], and can go 2x with minor code mods...
> 
> So, anybody know how much of the code floating around for the 68881
> will take advantage of the 68882 (sorta like Lattice 4.0 takes
> advantage of the 68010)? Dale?

The 68882 is code compatible with the 68881 with the exception of requiring
FSAVE/FRESTORE (sp?) sequences in the exception handling routines and more
exception stack space.  It looks like you could easily code to be both 881
and 882 compatible, but it's hard to say what the purveyors of 881 code have
done and if or how badly it might break with an 882.

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By the way, Mike wins the non-contest for being to originator of the 10,000th
comp.sys.amiga article to be received at cbmvax since the name change.
Hopefully, people have benefited by all this stuff in some relation to its
cost to underlying usenet framework...

********************************************************************************

-- 
George Robbins - now working for,	uucp: {ihnp4|rutgers|allegra}!cbmvax!grr
but no way officially representing	arpa: out to lunch...
Commodore, Engineering Department	fone: 215-431-9255 (only by moonlite)