whitcomb@ic.uucp (Gregg Whitcomb) (10/20/87)
I decided to build the MIDI interface from the schematic which was posted on the net several months ago. It wasn't long before I discovered that the A2000 (recently purchased) has a male serial connector (I suppose the A1000 has a female connector since the circuit calls for a male DB25). What's worse however is that unlike the A1000, a +5V supply is not available on the A2000 serial port! I believe pin 21 of the A1000 port is the +5V pin. This pin is left unconnected on the A2000 port (?????). What I want to know is: why? (yaic - yet another incompatible computer) Note to C=: Shouldn't people be warned that currently available Midi boxes (like the one advertised in the booklet enclosed with the A2000) are for the A1000 only?. I suppose it wouldn't take toooo long for them to find out themselves (after spending the $40-50). I guess I'll have to connect a 5V regulator to the +12V signal that IS present. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gregg Whitcomb USENET: ucbvax!ic!whitcomb ARPA: whitcomb@ic.berkeley.edu ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
rminnich@udel.EDU (Ron Minnich) (10/20/87)
Speaking of incompatibilities, the A500 parallel connector is female, the A1000 is male. It does not stop there. If your current cable passes 14, 16, or 25, cut them all out, or you will get problems. Cut out 15 too while you are at it. Why were they made different??? and the A500 serial <> A2000 serial? This makes no sense ?? -- ron (rminnich@udel.edu)
grr@cbmvax.UUCP (George Robbins) (10/20/87)
In article <610@louie.udel.EDU> rminnich@udel.EDU (Ron Minnich) writes: > Speaking of incompatibilities, the A500 parallel connector is female, > the A1000 is male. It does not stop there. If your current cable passes > 14, 16, or 25, cut them all out, or you will get problems. Cut out 15 too > while you are at it. > Why were they made different??? and the A500 serial <> A2000 serial? > This makes no sense ?? The parallel cable is now the same as the IBM PC parallel printer cable that can be found in any mom & pop computer store or accessory catalog. The serial cable is now in reasonable confomance with EIA RS232 standards and should cause no major problems with any normal piece of data communications equipment, even when using the dreaded 25-conductor cable! Seriously, we agonized over this quite a bit, but decided that using standard cables that would be readily available would be of benefit to the users in the long run. With the old arrangement, you had to either hope your dealer would stock the special Amiga cable or know which pins to cut to make it work. -- George Robbins - now working for, uucp: {ihnp4|rutgers|allegra}!cbmvax!grr but no way officially representing arpa: out to lunch... Commodore, Engineering Department fone: 215-431-9255 (only by moonlite)
dillon@CORY.BERKELEY.EDU (Matt Dillon) (10/20/87)
:Speaking of incompatibilities, the A500 parallel connector is female, :The A1000 is male. It does not stop there. If your current cable passes :14, 16, or 25, cut them all out, or you will get problems. Cut out 15 too :while you are at it. :why were they made different??? and the A500 serial <> A2000 serial? :This makes no sense ?? Probably because some of the lines *are* different and C-A doesn't want people to accidently plug in the wrong cable (or their A1000 cable). -Matt
andy@cbmvax.UUCP (Andy Finkel) (10/20/87)
In article <610@louie.udel.EDU> rminnich@udel.EDU (Ron Minnich) writes: >Speaking of incompatibilities, the A500 parallel connector is female, >the A1000 is male. >Why were they made different??? and the A500 serial <> A2000 serial? This allows us to mate A2000s and A1000s to make A500s. :-) (oh, all right...it lets you use cables for PC Clones also) -- andy finkel {ihnp4|seismo|allegra}!cbmvax!andy Commodore-Amiga, Inc. "Interfere? Of course we'll interfere. Always do what you're best at, I always say." Any expressed opinions are mine; but feel free to share. I disclaim all responsibilities, all shapes, all sizes, all colors.
viking@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu (10/21/87)
It makes a lot of sense, actually. I believe C= made the connectors IBM compatible so people could use standard cables and such on their Amigas. The problem was with the orginal 1000. I personally appreciate the move to the new connectors even though I am no fan of IBM. There's a lot of long-term convenience gained through this, even though it does present a 1000 -> 2000 incompatibility. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Jon W. Backstrom "Yah sure...we gonna have fun, you bet!" | | Computer Science Department | | Indiana University UUCP: {ihnp4,pyramid,rutgers}!iuvax!viking | | Lindley Hall 101 ARPA: viking@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu | | Bloomington, IN 47405 | | "The world has arrived at an age of cheap | | (812) 335-2849 (Office) complex devices of great reliability; and | | (812) 336-3660 (Home) something is bound to come of it." | | - Vannevar Bush (1945) | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
klm@munsell.UUCP (Kevin (with the fiberglass reinforced left foot) McBride) (10/22/87)
This article contains a *little* bit of Spam. :-) Apologies to Leo Schwab for copying the "look and feel" of his signature. I hope he doesn't have a Copyright on it. :-) In article <2548@cbmvax.UUCP> grr@cbmvax.UUCP (George Robbins) writes: >The parallel cable is now the same as the IBM PC parallel printer cable >that can be found in any mom & pop computer store or accessory catalog. > >Seriously, we agonized over this quite a bit As much as I'm "agonizing" right now? Um, George, does this mean that when I trade in my 1000 for a 2000 later this month that my Future Sound audio digitizer (which connects to the parallel port) is going to be broken as far as the Amiga is concerned? Is this going to piss off the third party people who manufacture various dongles for the parallel (or serial) port? Is this going to piss off people who already own various dongles for the parallel (or serial) port? Are you (Commodore) going to publish some kind of document describing (in detail) what you gotta do to fabricate a cable to correct for this incompatibility? Are you going to make it available to everybody and not just "Developers"? And not charge as much for it as it costs to buy a set of RKMs, which I haven't done yet because I think they're too @#$%^& expensive? Well, actually, I have a set of *old* RKMs, but I'll be dipped in @#$% if I'm going to lay out even more $$$$ to buy a new set. Sorry if this sounds like a flame, but it's early and I haven't had my coffee yet and my broken ankle is killing me and I'm bummed out because I did away with my ski season this year. Sigh. So much for trying to get in shape. Oh well, I guess I'll just stay home and work on that product I'm trying to develop. As long as Commodore stops changing the rules, that is. On the lighter side, I still think the Amiga is the best small computer you can get, at any (reasonable) price (Sun not included.) But, it still has a lot of headroom available to get even better. Cheers! -- Kevin McBride, the guy in the cast // | Your mind is totally controlled Raquetball - the only way to // | It has been stuffed into my mold ruin your ski season :-( \\ // Amiga | And you will do as you are told {encore,adelie}!munsell!klm \\// Rules! | until the rights to you are sold
rminnich@udel.EDU (Ron Minnich) (10/23/87)
In article <1312@atkins.munsell.UUCP> klm@munsell.UUCP (Kevin (with the fiberglass reinforced left foot) McBride) writes: > >As much as I'm "agonizing" right now? > >Um, George, does this mean that when I trade in my 1000 for a 2000 later >this month that my Future Sound audio digitizer (which connects to the >parallel port) is going to be broken as far as the Amiga is concerned? > >Is this going to piss off the third party people who manufacture various >dongles for the parallel (or serial) port? gee, the parallel port change is not that big a deal! I went to radio shack, got a 25-wire parallel cable, got two of the DB-25 plastic connectors that you put in a vise, and make a full-pass-through 25-pin female-femail connector. I plugged it in and it did not work. So i pulled out the 500 manual, look at pin-out on the port, pulled out the printer manual, did same, and clipped pins 25, 14, and 16. 14 and 16 if i remember right were grounded by the printer- which screwed up the 500. 25 is the printer reset line, which is grounded by the 500, so i clipped it. But as far as i can tell the functionality for printers does not change at all. Does Futuresound use pin 25? I can still unplug the printer from the 500 and into the 1000. No problem. ron -- ron (rminnich@udel.edu)
daveh@cbmvax.UUCP (Dave Haynie) (10/23/87)
in article <1312@atkins.munsell.UUCP>, klm@munsell.UUCP (Kevin (with the fiberglass reinforced left foot) McBride) says: > Summary: How can we win when you keep changing the rules? > This article contains a *little* bit of Spam. :-) Dirty Vikings! > Are you (Commodore) going to publish some kind of document describing > (in detail) what you gotta do to fabricate a cable to correct for this > incompatibility? Are you going to make it available to everybody and > not just "Developers"? And not charge as much for it as it costs to > buy a set of RKMs, which I haven't done yet because I think they're too > @#$%^& expensive? Well, actually, I have a set of *old* RKMs, but I'll > be dipped in @#$% if I'm going to lay out even more $$$$ to buy a new > set. At least you CAN buy a set of RKMs, whatever the price. I'm not sure if, even at this late date, you can get that kind of comprehensive information on other machines, like Macs or Ataris. Well, don't know what (Commodore) is planning, but me (Dave) has all you will ever need to know to make adaptor cables listed below. > Sorry if this sounds like a flame, but it's early and I haven't had my > coffee yet and my broken ankle is killing me and I'm bummed out because > I did away with my ski season this year. Early for you. I'm still working on Thursday night.... > Kevin McBride, the guy in the cast // | Your mind is totally controlled > Raquetball - the only way to // | It has been stuffed into my mold > ruin your ski season :-( \\ // Amiga | And you will do as you are told > {encore,adelie}!munsell!klm \\// Rules! | until the rights to you are sold How's about something like this: PARALLEL A1000 provides a male D-25 connector (DB25P), A500 and A2000 provide female D-25 connectors (DB25S). Signal A500 Pin A1000 Pin A2000 Pin /STROBE 1 1 1 D0 2 2 2 D1 3 3 3 D2 4 4 4 D3 5 5 5 D4 6 6 6 D5 7 7 7 D6 8 8 8 D7 9 9 9 /ACK 10 10 10 BUSY 11 11 11 POUT 12 12 12 SEL 13 13 13 +5V [1] 14 23 14 /RESET 16 25 16 GND 17-25 14-22 17-25 [1] +5V on the A500/A2000 is resistively current limited to about 10mA to protect the system against some standard printer cables, which may ground this line. SERIAL A1000 provides a female D-25 connector (DB25S), A500 and A2000 provide a male D-25 connector (DB25P). Signal A500 Pin A1000 Pin A2000 Pin [2] Shield GND 1 1 1 TxD 2 2 2 RxD 3 3 3 RTS 4 4 4 CTS 5 5 5 DSR 6 6 6 Signal GND 7 7 7 CD 8 8 8 +12V [1] 9 23 9 -12V [1] 10 N/A 10 Audio OUT 11 15 11 Audio IN 18 16 18 DTR 20 20 20 RI 22 N/A 22 -5V [1] N/A 14 N/A Buffered E N/A 17 N/A /INT2 N/A 18 N/A +5V [2] N/A 21 N/A /C2 N/A 24 N/A /RESET N/A 25 N/A [1] +/- 12V on the A500 is resistively currently limited to about 10mA for protection. +/- 12V on the A2000 is diode protected and current limited to about 200mA. +/- 5V and +12V are not physically limited in any way on the A1000; care must be used in hooking up external cables, as the wrong connection could damage the A1000 internal circuitry. [2] A1000 signals not present on the A2000 serial connector are available on a 26 pin header internally. -- Dave Haynie Commodore-Amiga Usenet: {ihnp4|caip|rutgers}!cbmvax!daveh "The B2000 Guy" PLINK : D-DAVE H BIX : hazy "Computers are what happen when you give up sleeping" - Iggy the Cat
cmcmanis%pepper@Sun.COM (Chuck McManis) (10/23/87)
In article <1312@atkins.munsell.UUCP> (Kevin McBride) writes: >In article <2548@cbmvax.UUCP> grr@cbmvax.UUCP (George Robbins) writes: >>Seriously, we agonized over this quite a bit >As much as I'm "agonizing" right now? Probably more so, you are agonizing about buying a new computer, George was agonizing about the future saleability of a product his livelyhood depends on. >Um, George, does this mean that when I trade in my 1000 for a 2000 later >this month that my Future Sound audio digitizer (which connects to the >parallel port) is going to be broken as far as the Amiga is concerned? It isn't going to work on the 2000. I suggest you get your trade in from one of these mail order places that lets you keep the 1000 for $50. That way you can have multitasking and multiprocessing! And when Jet comes out your place will be a bit hit. --Chuck McManis uucp: {anywhere}!sun!cmcmanis BIX: cmcmanis ARPAnet: cmcmanis@sun.com These opinions are my own and no one elses, but you knew that didn't you.
ford@crash.CTS.COM (Michael Ditto) (10/24/87)
In article <2548@cbmvax.UUCP> <someone who I won't name because it's probably not his fault> writes: >The serial cable is now in reasonable confomance with EIA RS232 standards >and should cause no major problems with any normal piece of data communications >equipment, even when using the dreaded 25-conductor cable! This is an improvement. Since all A1000 cables should only have had a few pins connected anyway, this is well worth the changes to the pin assignments of the non-standard signals. But there was *NO* reason to change the gender of the connector [except that that's the way ibm-pcs have them]. >Seriously, we agonized over this quite a bit, but decided that using standard >cables that would be readily available would be of benefit to the users in >the long run. Anyone who thinks that (IBM == STANDARD) doesn't deserve to be working with modern technology like Amigas. When IBM made the PC they didn't know anything about microcomputers. Commodore engineers do. If there ever is a time to succumb to IBM-"compatibility", this isn't it. >With the old arrangement, you had to either hope your dealer >would stock the special Amiga cable or know which pins to cut to make it >work. This was due to the pin arrangement and the non-standard signals, NOT the gender of the connector. Do you know how many Radio Shack stores there are in the world? Every one of them carries the standard male-to-male 25- pin serial cable, and has since around 1979. The standard has always been for devices to have female connectors and cables to have male connectors. Anyway, there's no point in crying over spilled milk. Anyone who has a collection of RS-232 devices and cables just has to add the cost of a gender reverser to the cost of the A2000 system. By the way, an easy way to 'standardize' an A1000's serial port is to buy two solder-type db25 connectors (one male and one female) and solder them back-to-back with some half-inch lengths of bare wire. This is very easy to do if you use the connectors with the hollow pins. Just insert the wires into pins 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 20, and 21, and solder. Then the A1000 is as standard as an RS-232 device ever gets. Unfortunately, this trick will not work on backwards connectors like the A2000's I'll bet you all can tell I've just hooked up my A2000, can't you? 8-) -- Mike Ditto -=] Ford [=- P.O. Box 1721 ford%kenobi@crash.CTS.COM Bonita, CA 92002 ford@crash.CTS.COM
msl5864@ritcv.UUCP (Michael S. Leibow) (10/25/87)
:Speaking of incompatibilities, the A500 parallel connector is female,
:The A1000 is male. It does not stop there. If your current cable passes
:14, 16, or 25, cut them all out, or you will get problems. Cut out 15 too
:while you are at it.
:why were they made different??? and the A500 serial <> A2000 serial?
:This makes no sense ??
That's weird, my A1000 is female. Are their different versions?
--Mike Leibow
--
Michael S. Leibow
UUCP: {allegra,seismo}!rochester!ritcv!msl5864
CSNET: msl5864%rit@csnet-relay.ARPAgrr@cbmvax.UUCP (George Robbins) (10/25/87)
In article <1903@crash.CTS.COM> ford@crash.CTS.COM (Michael Ditto) writes: > In article <2548@cbmvax.UUCP> <someone who I won't name because it's > probably not his fault> writes: > >The serial cable is now in reasonable confomance with EIA RS232 standards > >and should cause no major problems with any normal piece of data communications > >equipment, even when using the dreaded 25-conductor cable! > > This is an improvement. Since all A1000 cables should only have had a few > pins connected anyway, this is well worth the changes to the pin assignments > of the non-standard signals. But there was *NO* reason to change the gender > of the connector [except that that's the way ibm-pcs have them]. > > > >Seriously, we agonized over this quite a bit, but decided that using standard > >cables that would be readily available would be of benefit to the users in > >the long run. > > Anyone who thinks that (IBM == STANDARD) doesn't deserve to be working with > modern technology like Amigas. When IBM made the PC they didn't know > anything about microcomputers. Commodore engineers do. If there ever is > a time to succumb to IBM-"compatibility", this isn't it. The standard is that used by IBM PC's, DEC mainframes, DEC and DEC compatible terminals, and maybe half the rest of the universe. Admittedly, the sex of the RS232 connector is pretty much arbitrary, but the we *did*not* want the sex of the RS232 connector to be the same as that of the printer connector, which is generally perceived to be female. Note that we don't really care about IBM as an industry standard, rather the concern is that the cables be readily available, in plug-in-and-go form at the place where the customer buys their Amiga. -- George Robbins - now working for, uucp: {ihnp4|rutgers|allegra}!cbmvax!grr but no way officially representing arpa: out to lunch... Commodore, Engineering Department fone: 215-431-9255 (only by moonlite)
farren@gethen.UUCP (Michael J. Farren) (10/25/87)
In article <1903@crash.CTS.COM> ford@crash.CTS.COM (Michael Ditto) writes: >But there was *NO* reason to change the gender >of the connector [except that that's the way ibm-pcs have them]. [...] >Anyone who thinks that (IBM == STANDARD) doesn't deserve to be working with >modern technology like Amigas. When IBM made the PC they didn't know >anything about microcomputers. You'd better think again. IBM is the ONLY microcomputer manufacturer that FOLLOWED the standard. Go get a copy of the RS-232 document. It states, as plain as day, that the DTE end of the connector has a male connector, and the DCE end has a female. Since the computer certainly qualifies as DTE (after all, you're probably connecting the damn thing to a modem), it SHOULD have a male connector. Due to the fact that female connectors are easier to mount on a panel, and are slightly cheaper, most manufacturers (of both terminals and computers) ignored the standard, and took it upon themselves to specify a male plug. Try this: suppose you have a modem that's 15 feet away, and you only have two 10' cables. If you have male-to-male cables, you are out of luck. If you have male-to-female cables, like IBM's, just hook 'em together. Makes sense to me. Enough sense that I've done just that, more than once. -- ---------------- Michael J. Farren "... if the church put in half the time on covetousness unisoft!gethen!farren that it does on lust, this would be a better world ..." gethen!farren@lll-winken.arpa Garrison Keillor, "Lake Wobegon Days"
dca@toylnd.UUCP (David C. Albrecht) (10/26/87)
> The parallel cable is now the same as the IBM PC parallel printer cable > that can be found in any mom & pop computer store or accessory catalog. > > The serial cable is now in reasonable confomance with EIA RS232 standards > and should cause no major problems with any normal piece of data communications > equipment, even when using the dreaded 25-conductor cable! > > Seriously, we agonized over this quite a bit, but decided that using standard > cables that would be readily available would be of benefit to the users in > the long run. With the old arrangement, you had to either hope your dealer > would stock the special Amiga cable or know which pins to cut to make it > work. Well, that's all fine and good. But really I would think that incompatibility with add on devices for the 1000 is just as serious if not more so a problem than incompatibility with IBM pc cables. At the very least you should have manufactured an add-on box which would have provided connectors which fit over the existing 2000 ones and provided proper 1000 ones on the other side. If necessary sockets on the back of the 2000 could have been provided for power pins which the widget box could use if the 2000 connectors don't already have them. I'm not normally one for adding odd little useless hardware bits thereby driving up the cost of a box for everyone but I dare say that for some time the 2000's main audience is likely to be upgrading 1000 owners especially at the price it is at now. It has basically thrown all the development that went into the add on hardware devices for the 1000 out the window and all us 1000 owners are going to have to go out and scrounge up our own widget boxes because you didn't provide them. I dare say I would have scraped up the $20-$30 such a box would probably go for. I haven't got my 2000 yet (just ordered it) which is probably just as well because I'll probably be considerably grumpier after I try to connect my MIDI connector, my Perfect Sound sampler, and my Digi-View widget. Those and the minor grumps: my custom printer cable and serial to phone connector cable. It's alright to make a departure in the next generation its the lack of the migration path that's the bad idea. David Albrecht
haitex@pnet01.cts.com (Wade Bickel) (10/26/87)
This is really irritating. The PARALLEL PORT on the A500, and
perhaps the A2000, is unpowered. This means devices built to
use the A1000 PAR port probably won't work on the new machines.
C= could have:
1) Maintained compatablility between the PARALLEL and
SERIAL ports of all machines.
2) Have designed the A500 to accept A1000 expansion
boxes.
3) Included a A1000/A500 type expansion connector on
the A2000 in addition to the internal slots.
Oh Well!... it's too late now!
Thanks, A
Wade.
UUCP: {cbosgd, hplabs!hp-sdd, sdcsvax, nosc}!crash!pnet01!haitex
ARPA: crash!pnet01!haitex@nosc.mil
INET: haitex@pnet01.CTS.COMdillon@CORY.BERKELEY.EDU (Matt Dillon) (10/26/87)
>You'd better think again. IBM is the ONLY microcomputer manufacturer >that FOLLOWED the standard. Go get a copy of the RS-232 document. It But they screwed up their software drivers totally. -Matt
dillon@CORY.BERKELEY.EDU (Matt Dillon) (10/27/87)
In my opinion, the changes made to the serial and parallel connectors, as well as to the internal expansion bus, were absolutely essential and fixed major problems with earlier designs. -Matt
daveh@cbmvax.UUCP (10/29/87)
in article <179@toylnd.UUCP>, dca@toylnd.UUCP (David C. Albrecht) says: > At the very least you should have > manufactured an add-on box which would have provided connectors which fit over > the existing 2000 ones and provided proper 1000 ones on the other side. If > necessary sockets on the back of the 2000 could have been provided for power > pins which the widget box could use if the 2000 connectors don't already have > them. I'm not normally one for adding odd little useless hardware bits > thereby driving up the cost of a box for everyone but I dare say that for some > time the 2000's main audience is likely to be upgrading 1000 owners especially > at the price it is at now. I don't expect that Commodore-Amiga will build a box like this, but it's very possible to do it yourself, or for a 3rd party to do it. And the resulting box would be much nicer than what you propose, in that it would be built-in. In the back of your A2000, next to the normal expansion slots, you'll find two screw-in panels. The one closest to the expansion slots also happens to be right above the serial port. Hidden just inside this panel, right over the serial port, is a 26 pin header that contains all the missing A1000 serial bus signals. If you wanted to build up a second connector, with the A1000 style serial connector on one end, a ribbon cable and connector on the other, here's how you'd connect them. Signal A1000 DB25S Connector A2000 CN304 Header Frame Ground 1 1 TxD 2 3 RxD 3 5 RTS 4 7 CTS 5 9 DSR 6 11 Signal Ground 7 13 CD 8 15 -5V 14 2 Audio IN 15 6 Audio OUT 16 4 E Clock 17 8 /INT2 18 10 DTR 20 14 +5V 21 16 +12V 23 20 /C2 Clock 24 22 /Reset 25 24 That's all you need for do-it yourselfing, or commercial applications if that's what you want to do. Be sure you know the pintouts of each connector type before you go hooking anything up. > David Albrecht -- Dave Haynie Commodore-Amiga Usenet: {ihnp4|caip|rutgers}!cbmvax!daveh "The B2000 Guy" PLINK : D-DAVE H BIX : hazy "Computers are what happen when you give up sleeping" - Iggy the Cat
grr@cbmvax.UUCP (10/29/87)
In article <1907@crash.CTS.COM> haitex@pnet01.cts.com (Wade Bickel) writes: > > This is really irritating. The PARALLEL PORT on the A500, and > perhaps the A2000, is unpowered. This means devices built to > use the A1000 PAR port probably won't work on the new machines. The parallel port has +5 volts, current limited by a resistor available on one of the pins. Enough for low power CMOS devices. The real IBM parallel port has no power whatever and we refused to have something that was almost IBM compatible, but might fry whatever periphral you plug in. > C= could have: > > 1) Maintained compatablility between the PARALLEL and > SERIAL ports of all machines. We've covered this issue. > > 2) Have designed the A500 to accept A1000 expansion > boxes. Mechanically this wouldn't be possible unless you made the case several inches thicker. There is also the issue of which side to put the disk drive on, which is perhaps pretty arbitrary. If I haven't mentioned this lately, the connector is electrically and pin compatible. If you feel the compulsion, you can make up a little extender and make many of the slap on the side type peripherals work. > 3) Included a A1000/A500 type expansion connector on > the A2000 in addition to the internal slots. Yet another mechanical disaster. Also tantamount to having an expansion bus with another bus or slap on the side peripherals daisy chained off of it. Only terminal optimism could make this work reliably. -- George Robbins - now working for, uucp: {ihnp4|rutgers|allegra}!cbmvax!grr but no way officially representing arpa: out to lunch... Commodore, Engineering Department fone: 215-431-9255 (only by moonlite)
haitex@pnet01.UUCP (10/31/87)
rminnich@udel.EDU (Ron Minnich) writes: >In article <1312@atkins.munsell.UUCP> klm@munsell.UUCP (Kevin (with the fiberglass reinforced left foot) McBride) writes: >> >>As much as I'm "agonizing" right now? >> >>Um, George, does this mean that when I trade in my 1000 for a 2000 later >>this month that my Future Sound audio digitizer (which connects to the >>parallel port) is going to be broken as far as the Amiga is concerned? >> >>Is this going to piss off the third party people who manufacture various >>dongles for the parallel (or serial) port? > > gee, the parallel port change is not that big a deal! >I went to radio shack, got a 25-wire parallel cable, got two >of the DB-25 plastic connectors that you put in a vise, and >make a full-pass-through 25-pin female-femail connector. >I plugged it in and it did not work. So i pulled out the 500 >manual, look at pin-out on the port, pulled out the printer >manual, did same, and clipped pins 25, 14, and 16. >14 and 16 if i remember right were grounded by the printer- >which screwed up the 500. 25 is the printer reset line, >which is grounded by the 500, so i clipped it. But as >far as i can tell the functionality for printers does not >change at all. Does Futuresound use pin 25? > I can still unplug the printer from the 500 and into the 1000. >No problem. >ron >-- >ron (rminnich@udel.edu) Ron, Its nice that you can figure out which pins do what and make your A500 work with your printer. That no problem because your printer has its own power supply. However, I was designing a piece of hardware which was going to use the parallel port but had to switch to the joystick port because the A500 parallel port is UNPOWERED! This is a major bummer! Got a reasonable, marketable solution??? I think this was done to make the PAR port IBM compatable so the 2000's wouldn't need to support 2 types of PAR ports, but I have not looked into so I don't really KNOW! Thanks, Wade. UUCP: {cbosgd, hplabs!hp-sdd, sdcsvax, nosc}!crash!pnet01!haitex ARPA: crash!pnet01!haitex@nosc.mil INET: haitex@pnet01.CTS.COM
UH2@PSUVM.BITNET (Lee Sailer) (11/03/87)
In article <252@gethen.UUCP>, farren@gethen.UUCP (Michael J. Farren) says: > >You'd better think again. IBM is the ONLY microcomputer manufacturer >that FOLLOWED the standard. Go get a copy of the RS-232 document. It >states, as plain as day, that the DTE end of the connector has a male >connector, and the DCE end has a female. Since the computer certainly >qualifies as DTE (after all, you're probably connecting the damn thing >to a modem), it SHOULD have a male connector. Due to the fact that And when you hook two computers together, which is DTE? Everyone should own a gender changer.
ccasttd@pyr.gatech.EDU (Tom Dixon) (11/04/87)
In article <24099UH2@PSUVM> UH2@PSUVM.BITNET (Lee Sailer) writes: >In article <252@gethen.UUCP>, farren@gethen.UUCP (Michael J. Farren) says: >> [serial port discussion] >>... that the DTE end of the connector has a male >>connector, and the DCE end has a female. Since the computer certainly >>qualifies as DTE (after all, you're probably connecting the damn thing >>to a modem), it SHOULD have a male connector. Due to the fact that > > And when you hook two computers together, which is DTE? > >Everyone should own a gender changer. > While everyone should have a gender changer, when hooking two computers together, you should have a cross DTE cable. And if using two A-'s it is irrevelent what sex the computer has, you still need a same sex cable to mate them. Standards are standards. And if Comm- had followed the serial port standard in its computers, we wouldn't have the 500/1000/2000 compatibility problem we have now. Without standards, we would have never had an industrial revolution and where would we be now? Food for thought... (thought of new products)
shs@ji.Berkeley.EDU (Steve Schoettler) (11/05/87)
In article <4366@pyr.gatech.EDU> ccasttd@pyr.UUCP (Tom Dixon) writes: > >Standards are standards. And if Comm- had followed the serial port standard >in its computers, we wouldn't have the 500/1000/2000 compatibility >problem we have now. Without standards, we would have never had an >industrial revolution and where would we be now? > The great thing about standards is, there are so many to choose from! :-) Steve Schoettler
daveh@cbmvax.UUCP (Dave Haynie) (11/11/87)
in article <24099UH2@PSUVM>, UH2@PSUVM.BITNET (Lee Sailer) says: > > And when you hook two computers together, which is DTE? You always have to consider which computer is more powerful. Run benchmarks if necessary! If they're exactly the same computer, you better expand one or the other so this can be figured out, or you'll be in violation. Like now, whenever I plug my 68020 card into my office Amiga, I immediately flip over the gender of the serial line on it that goes out to the VAX. > > Everyone should own a gender changer. > For just such emergencies as outlines above. -- Dave Haynie Commodore-Amiga Usenet: {ihnp4|caip|rutgers}!cbmvax!daveh "The B2000 Guy" PLINK : D-DAVE H BIX : hazy "Computers are what happen when you give up sleeping" - Iggy the Cat