slc@hoptoad.uucp (Steve Costa) (09/13/87)
Is there any substance to the rumor that Commodore will make custom chips for the A500 and A2000 that be able to use 1 Meg of chip ram? Where does that leave us A1000 owners? I have not been considering upgrading to the A2000, but this development could change my mind.
grr@cbmvax.UUCP (George Robbins) (09/16/87)
In article <2948@hoptoad.uucp> slc@hoptoad.UUCP (Steve Costa) writes: > > Is there any substance to the rumor that Commodore will make custom chips > for the A500 and A2000 that be able to use 1 Meg of chip ram? Where does > that leave us A1000 owners? I have not been considering upgrading to the > A2000, but this development could change my mind. Commodore has improved Amiga custom chips under development. Packaging and production volume considerations make it unlikely that these chips will be available in A1000 compatible form. -- George Robbins - now working for, uucp: {ihnp4|rutgers|allegra}!cbmvax!grr but no way officially representing arpa: out to lunch... Commodore, Engineering Department fone: 215-431-9255 (only by moonlite)
kent@xanth.UUCP (09/17/87)
In article <2345@cbmvax.UUCP> grr@cbmvax.UUCP (George Robbins) writes: >In article <2948@hoptoad.uucp> slc@hoptoad.UUCP (Steve Costa) writes: >> >> Is there any substance to the rumor that Commodore will make custom chips >> for the A500 and A2000 that be able to use 1 Meg of chip ram? > >Commodore has improved Amiga custom chips under development. Packaging and >production volume considerations make it unlikely that these chips will be >available in A1000 compatible form. > >-- >George Robbins - Sob. Really hope you can change your minds on this one, George. From my (graphicsweenie) viewpoint, the constraints of only 512K of chip ram are the single most severe limitation of my A1000. I'd like to be able to correct this misfeature without upgrading to an a2000. [For one thing, on my 19" deep computer table (really a tall, library reading table) the keyboard garage is a necessity of life.] As a particular example, with maximum rows, columns, bitplanes, dual playfield, there is almost no room left for storing hidden portions of windows, in 512K. Two meg would be a tremendous benefit. I realize you don't owe us (the initial buyers of the Amiga) a free lunch, but a little good will would go a long way. Kent, the man from xanth. "His expression lit up. 'Hey, you wouldn't be a dope smuggler, would you?' Rail looked confused. 'Why would anyone wish to smuggle stupidity when there is so much of it readily available?'" -- Alan Dean Foster, GLORY LANE
keithd@cadovax.UUCP (Keith Doyle) (09/18/87)
In article <2472@xanth.UUCP> kent@xanth.UUCP (Kent Paul Dolan) writes:
.Sob. Really hope you can change your minds on this one, George. From
.my (graphicsweenie) viewpoint, the constraints of only 512K of chip
.ram are the single most severe limitation of my A1000. I'd like to be
.able to correct this misfeature without upgrading to an a2000. [For
.one thing, on my 19" deep computer table (really a tall, library
.reading table) the keyboard garage is a necessity of life.]
.I realize you don't owe us (the initial buyers of the Amiga) a free
.lunch, but a little good will would go a long way.
I'd guess that the logistics of implementing an A1000 upgrade make it
infeasible. Someone has to add blue wires to your main board. Are
you good with a soldering iron?
Keith Doyle
# {ucbvax,decvax}!trwrb!cadovax!keithd Contel Business Systems 213-323-8170bryce@hoser.berkeley.edu (Bryce Nesbitt) (09/19/87)
In article <2472@xanth.UUCP> kent@xanth.UUCP (Kent Paul Dolan) writes: >In article <2345@cbmvax.UUCP> grr@cbmvax.UUCP (George Robbins) writes: >>In article <2948@hoptoad.uucp> slc@hoptoad.UUCP (Steve Costa) writes: >>> [2 Meg of chip RAM?] >> >>Commodore has improved Amiga custom chips under development. Packaging and >>production volume considerations make it unlikely that these chips will be >>available in A1000 compatible form. [George R. Robbins] > >Sob. Really hope you can change your minds on this one, George... I'll bet someone could take the new chips and build a tower to stick them into an Amiga 1000. Assuming a hypothetical "Fat Agnus" pin compatible chip with 1 or 2 Megabytes of CHIP RAM potential the logic to do this is convoluted, but looks doable. You would need to plug into the current Agnus socket and run a clip or three down to the motherboard. Most of the logic on the board would be to unwind and/or selectively ignore the extra logic inside Fat Agnus. With FAST enough logic, timing margins should still be ok. (BTW: There was an obscure joke in that last sentence). The rest of the board would be an extra 512K or 1.5Meg of CHIP memory. [BTW: I know a company that would like to sell this. In fact, I've been asked to the design it. Now if only Commodore comes out with the part! :-) ] The only real problem would be getting the parts OEM from Commodore. Should not be too bad... Commodore has been getting back into OEM recently. (After shutting MOS technology off from most of the world for a few years). If the new chips will be in a Fat Agnus style package is matter of speculation from this point of view. It seems unlikely that one would go through the trouble of expanding all 25 DMA channels, and then do it by only one bit. By the time everything is shuffled to make space 2 or 4 or more bits are likely (even if all of those are not brought out of the package). Perhaps the test line will do double duty as a memory select? Nah. Now if the chips George is typing about support 32 or 64 bit wide access (that's CHIP width, not processor width), non NTSC video option, or straddle CHIP/FAST memory for a 32 address bit system wide DMA facility, *then* it's time to donate your Amiga 1000 to the local school or IBM-PC'ers anonymous chapter. |\ /| . Ack! (NAK, ENQ, SYN) {o O} . (") bryce@hoser.berkeley.EDU -or- ucbvax!hoser!bryce U How can you go back if you have not yet gone forth?
jmpiazza@sunybcs.uucp (Joseph M. Piazza) (09/20/87)
In article <1756@cadovax.UUCP> keithd@cadovax.UUCP (Keith Doyle) writes: >In article <2472@xanth.UUCP> kent@xanth.UUCP (Kent Paul Dolan) writes: >>Sob. Really hope you can change your minds on this one, George. From >>my (graphicsweenie) viewpoint, the constraints of only 512K of chip >>ram are the single most severe limitation of my A1000. I'd like to be >>able to correct this misfeature without upgrading to an a2000. ... > >I'd guess that the logistics of implementing an A1000 upgrade make it >infeasible. Someone has to add blue wires to your main board. Are >you good with a soldering iron? Will the ASDG 2001 expansion box alleviate this problem? In particular, the CPU slot or the Video slot? Flip side, joe piazza --- Cogito ergo equus sum. CS Dept. SUNY at Buffalo 14260 UU: ...{rocksvax|decvax}!sunybcs!jmpiazza CS: jmpiazza@cs.buffalo.edu BI: jmpiazza@sunybcs
cheung@vu-vlsi.UUCP (Wilson Cheung) (09/21/87)
In article <5332@sunybcs.UUCP>, jmpiazza@sunybcs.uucp (Joseph M. Piazza) writes: > > Will the ASDG 2001 expansion box alleviate this problem? In > particular, the CPU slot or the Video slot The 2001 doesn't have a Video slot and can never produce them. The A2000s video slot reportedly has some signals which neither the A1000's RGB port or expansion port have. Therefore, making a video slot would involve somemse fr
welland@cbmvax.UUCP (Bob Welland) (09/22/87)
The idea of making a Fat Agnus to Agnus converter is a rather tricky one. I would advise anyone thinking about this to think instead about a Fat Agnus and Gary conversion. These two chips work very closely in consort with each other and it would take a lot of logic (and hacking) to make a TTL version work. Another problem is that Fat Agnus generates all of the clocks for the system. This replaces a mess of logic on the A1000. This means that all of the A1000 clock logic has to be bypassed. It would be much easier to replace ALL of the logic on the A1000 except the custom chips, the 8520's, and the 68000. It would make for a strange tower board but it might work ... If you look at an A500 you will see that there is very little other then the the chips mentioned above ... everything else has been squeezed into Fat Agnus, Gary, and the Video Hybrid (which you do not need). Finally if one wanted to make life even easier you could dump the writable control store and replace it by the ROM ... (I can hear the booing and hissing allready) Bob Welland All of the words seen above are my own ... not those of my esteemed corporation.
lbrown@apctrc.UUCP (Lawrence H. Brown) (09/29/87)
In article <2345@cbmvax.UUCP: grr@cbmvax.UUCP (George Robbins) writes: :In article <2948@hoptoad.uucp> slc@hoptoad.UUCP (Steve Costa) writes: :> :> Is there any substance to the rumor that Commodore will make custom chips :> for the A500 and A2000 that be able to use 1 Meg of chip ram? Where does :> that leave us A1000 owners? I have not been considering upgrading to the :> A2000, but this development could change my mind. : :Commodore has improved Amiga custom chips under development. Packaging and :production volume considerations make it unlikely that these chips will be :available in A1000 compatible form. : Come on! If you are, you are. If not, say so and kill a rumour before it spreads. Underdevelopment? RSN? What kind of custom chips are in the 2000? I must be way off, but I thought the custom chips were the same except for something called FAT AGNES. A yes or no would have been more informative. But then again, maybe the reasoning is not to reveal stuff like that to avoid talking about things that don't already solidly exist, or maybe because C-A's moving away from the A1000. Whatever... FLAME OFF. Disclaimer: I've been trying to fix a sick sun and I'm grumpy. -- Lawrence H. Brown USENET: ...!uunet!apctrc!cdf!zlhb0a or zlhb0a@cdf.apctrc.uucp (?) Phone: (918-660-4389) 24 hrs, voice. USmail: 7325 E. 50th, Tulsa, OK 74145 Disclaimer: I paid 25 cents to see the light. Call it cheap entertainment.
grr@cbmvax.UUCP (George Robbins) (09/29/87)
In article <3823@zen.berkeley.edu> bryce@hoser.berkeley.edu (Bryce Nesbitt) writes: > I'll bet someone could take the new chips and build a tower to stick them > into an Amiga 1000. Assuming a hypothetical "Fat Agnus" pin compatible chip > with 1 or 2 Megabytes of CHIP RAM potential the logic to do this is > convoluted, but looks doable. You would need to plug into the current Agnus > socket and run a clip or three down to the motherboard. Most of the logic on > the board would be to unwind and/or selectively ignore the extra logic inside > Fat Agnus. With FAST enough logic, timing margins should still be ok. > The rest of the board would be an extra 512K or 1.5Meg of CHIP memory. > > [BTW: I know a company that would like to sell this. In fact, I've been > asked to the design it. Now if only Commodore comes out with the part! :-) ] Good luck. No reason you shouldn't be able to demonstrate your design using the current Fat Agnus, problem being that most of the margins are eaten up by the fat vs. the external componentry on the A1000. Also there are real differences on who is providing the clocks and so on. Doesn't mean it can't be done, but you'd probably find it easier to redo the whole board than make a tower. -- George Robbins - now working for, uucp: {ihnp4|rutgers|allegra}!cbmvax!grr but no way officially representing arpa: out to lunch... Commodore, Engineering Department fone: 215-431-9255 (only by moonlite)
slc@hoptoad.UUCP (09/30/87)
In article <2417@cbmvax.UUCP> grr@cbmvax.UUCP (George Robbins) writes: >In article <3823@zen.berkeley.edu> bryce@hoser.berkeley.edu (Bryce Nesbitt) writes: >> I'll bet someone could take the new chips and build a tower to stick them >> into an Amiga 1000. Assuming a hypothetical "Fat Agnus" pin compatible chip >> with 1 or 2 Megabytes of CHIP RAM potential the logic to do this is >> convoluted, but looks doable. You would need to plug into the current Agnus >> socket and run a clip or three down to the motherboard. Most of the logic on >> the board would be to unwind and/or selectively ignore the extra logic inside >> Fat Agnus. With FAST enough logic, timing margins should still be ok. >> The rest of the board would be an extra 512K or 1.5Meg of CHIP memory. >> >> [BTW: I know a company that would like to sell this. In fact, I've been >> asked to the design it. Now if only Commodore comes out with the part! :-) ] > >Good luck. No reason you shouldn't be able to demonstrate your design using >the current Fat Agnus, problem being that most of the margins are eaten up >by the fat vs. the external componentry on the A1000. Also there are real >differences on who is providing the clocks and so on. Doesn't mean it can't >be done, but you'd probably find it easier to redo the whole board than make >a tower. > >-- >George Robbins - now working for, uucp: {ihnp4|rutgers|allegra}!cbmvax!grr >but no way officially representing arpa: out to lunch... >Commodore, Engineering Department fone: 215-431-9255 (only by moonlite) Is there any chance of this issue being resolved by October 31? My inclination is to keep my A1000 and buy an ASDG Two-thousand-and-one expansion box. But if that means I will be unable to expand to the same amount of chip memory as future custom chips, then I may exchange for the A2000.
bryce@hoser.berkeley.edu (Bryce Nesbitt) (09/30/87)
In article <3083@hoptoad.uucp> slc@hoptoad.UUCP (Steve Costa) writes: >In article <2417@cbmvax.UUCP> grr@cbmvax.UUCP (George Robbins) writes: >>In article <3823@zen.berkeley.edu> bryce@hoser.berkeley.edu (Bryce Nesbitt) writes: >>> I'll bet someone could take the new chips and build a tower to stick them >>> into an Amiga 1000.... >> >>....Doesn't mean it can't >>be done, but you'd probably find it easier to redo the whole board than make >>a tower. [George Robbins] >> >Is there any chance of this issue being resolved by October 31? My inclination >is to keep my A1000 and buy an ASDG Two-thousand-and-one expansion box. >But if that means I will be unable to expand to the same amount of chip >memory as future custom chips, then I may exchange for the A2000. If you are at all worried about this issue go for the A2000. Nobody is giving any guarantees that a Fat Agnus-like chip *can* be used in the A1000. I still think I have enough tricks to solve the timing issues. George "Mr. A500" Robbins, expressed doubt as to the feasibility. Mr. Robbins has more electronics experience than I, and much more knowledge of the Amiga chipset. This still does not mean I won't try. There is no task I like more than the "impossible" task. (Want to see raster-line interrupts on a Vic-20? Sprites in the border on a Commodore-64? Non-Soviets on Mars? :-) In no case would the upgrade be exceptionally cheap. The chip alone would be hard to get and costly. Several hundred total by the time the board is populated with 512K. And, it is not even at the 'vapor' stage yet (Amiga Live! anyone?). Talk to me a few months after Commodore starts shipping N Meg. Agnuses. Don't hold your breath until then. Yes sir, passenger service to the moon starts November 1, 1969. Cash in advance, please! |\ /| . Ack! (NAK, ENQ, SYN) {o O} . (") bryce@hoser.berkeley.EDU -or- ucbvax!hoser!bryce U How can you go back if you have not yet gone forth?
grr@cbmvax.UUCP (George Robbins) (10/19/87)
In article <311@apctrc.UUCP> lbrown@apctrc.UUCP (Lawrence H. Brown) writes: > In article <2345@cbmvax.UUCP: grr@cbmvax.UUCP (George Robbins) writes: > :In article <2948@hoptoad.uucp> slc@hoptoad.UUCP (Steve Costa) writes: > :> > :> Is there any substance to the rumor that Commodore will make custom chips > :> for the A500 and A2000 that be able to use 1 Meg of chip ram? Where does > :> that leave us A1000 owners? I have not been considering upgrading to the > :> A2000, but this development could change my mind. > : > :Commodore has improved Amiga custom chips under development. Packaging and > :production volume considerations make it unlikely that these chips will be > :available in A1000 compatible form. > : > Come on! If you are, you are. If not, say so and kill a rumour before it > spreads. Underdevelopment? RSN? What kind of custom chips are in the 2000? > I must be way off, but I thought the custom chips were the same except for > something called FAT AGNES. A yes or no would have been more informative. > But then again, maybe the reasoning is not to reveal stuff like that to avoid > talking about things that don't already solidly exist, or maybe because C-A's > moving away from the A1000. Whatever... > > FLAME OFF. > > Disclaimer: I've been trying to fix a sick sun and I'm grumpy. Asbestos Excuse Applique: Please remember that the people you are talking to here are generally Engineering and Technical Support personnel. We are most explictly not allowed to announce things before they are officially announced by the Sales, Marketing and Managment people. We, as lowly peons, are also warned against making statments or representations that might seem to commit Commodore to some action or otherwise interfere with the perogatives of managment to do business as they see fit. I suspect that if you work in a commercial environment, and have business related contact with the public, you might be subject to the same constraints. Now with that out of the way, I'd ask that you reread what has been said of the subject of hi-res chips and draw your own conclusions. I would also point out that Commodore is keeping the brave souls who bought the A1000 in mind by offering them and only them the special A1000 -> A2000 upgrade deal. This deal may or may not appeal to you, but please comtemplate what it suggests about Commodore's plans for the future... -- George Robbins - now working for, uucp: {ihnp4|rutgers|allegra}!cbmvax!grr but no way officially representing arpa: out to lunch... Commodore, Engineering Department fone: 215-431-9255 (only by moonlite)
daves@hpcilzb.HP.COM (Dave Scroggins) (10/20/87)
> grr@cbmvax.UUCP (George Robbins) / 5:00 pm Oct 18, 1987 / > > > > I would also point out that Commodore is keeping the brave souls who > bought the A1000 in mind by offering them and only them the special > A1000 -> A2000 upgrade deal. This deal may or may not appeal to you, > but please comtemplate what it suggests about Commodore's plans for > the future... > Contemplate what Commodore's future plans are for the A1000 ---- Hey George -- This makes me feel as though Commodore is going to ignore, trash, or pretend the A1000 does not exist!!! Am I getting the wrong impression ??? ( I hope so!! ) Hell -- I haven't even finished paying for my A1000 yet! I can't justify coughing up another $1000.00 PLUS my old AMIGA right now. (Not to mention what would "hit the fan" if I even mentioned it to the lil' missus right now, what with the new kid an' all!! ) I would LOVE to get an AMIGA 2000 but just can't right now. I would like to think that my A1000 will not become a paper weight like my C64 and C128 have become just because Commodore has a new computer to sell. So George --- Am I geting the wrong impression??? Will Commodore still support th A1000??? In short --- WHAT ARE COMMODORE'S PLANS FOR THE FUTURE ????? Dave (two paper weights are enough!!) Scroggins
peter@dalcsug.UUCP (Peter Philip) (10/23/87)
In article <2030006@hpcilzb.HP.COM> daves@hpcilzb.HP.COM (Dave Scroggins) writes: >> grr@cbmvax.UUCP (George Robbins) / 5:00 pm Oct 18, 1987 / >> I would also point out that Commodore is keeping the brave souls who >> bought the A1000 in mind by offering them and only them the special >> A1000 -> A2000 upgrade deal. This deal may or may not appeal to you, >> but please comtemplate what it suggests about Commodore's plans for >> the future... >> > > Hey George -- This makes me feel as though Commodore is going to > ignore, trash, or pretend the A1000 does not exist!!! I rather take this as meaning, "there will probably be some things that the A2000 will be able to do that the A1000 won't". But keep in mind that there are some things that the A1000 can do that the A2000 can't! IE: I recommended an A2000 system to a client to use for Video titling and was informed by the dealer that the composite video adapter was NOT AVAILABLE!! Grrrrr. > I can't justify coughing up another $1000.00 PLUS my old AMIGA right > now. (Not to mention what would "hit the fan" if I even mentioned it > to the lil' missus right now, what with the new kid an' all!! ) > > I would LOVE to get an AMIGA 2000 but just can't right now. So keep your A1000 and LOVE _IT_ instead! > I would like to think that my A1000 will not become a paper weight like > my C64 and C128 have become just because Commodore has a new computer > to sell. The C64 can do things that the Amiga can not! Try to play Choplifter, Impossible mission or Fort Apocalipse on the Amiga! ;-) ;-) Seriously, why put down the C64? Just because there is ANOTHER computer on the market that can do more than the C64 does not make it a bad computer or an obsolete one. Hell, SUNs can do more than Amiga's (no flames on this one please) but that in no way makes the A1000 obsolete. > So George --- Am I geting the wrong impression??? Will Commodore still > support th A1000??? Cripes! I am sick of hearing all this bellyaching about the A1000<->A2000 upgrade. I assume you all made an informed, intellegent decision when you bought your A1000 - so be happy about it! I bought my A1000 back in December 1985 and as far as I am concerned, I have gotten my value back in enjoyment ten times over! Commodore has made a generous offer to those who would like to upgrade from the original to the new Amiga, do you expect them to say "oh, gee, you don't have the $1000? Ok, well, take the A2000 anyways and pay us back when you can." yea, right. At least some of you people HAVE that choice, the upgrade is not even offered outside of the US!! > In short --- WHAT ARE COMMODORE'S PLANS FOR THE FUTURE ????? I would like to know this too, but don't loose any sleep over it. > Dave (two paper weights are enough!!) Scroggins Er, Dave, how much do you want for those "worthless" paper weights you got there? Need any help hauling them away to the junkyard?? :-) :-) Peter (All paperweight donations accepted) Philip
grr@cbmvax.UUCP (George Robbins) (11/15/87)
In article <165@dalcsug.UUCP> peter@dalcsug.UUCP (Peter Philip) writes: > But keep in mind > that there are some things that the A1000 can do that the A2000 can't! > IE: I recommended an A2000 system to a client to use for Video titling > and was informed by the dealer that the composite video adapter was > NOT AVAILABLE!! Grrrrr. Both the A2000 version of the Genlock peripheral and the A2000 composite adapter will provide composite video. The Genlock peripheral seems like it may be approaching production status, while the Composite adapter fell through the cracks. Since I took it upon myself to do somthing about the Composite adapter, I seem to have aquired the responsibility for making it happen. All I can say at this point is that given production lead times, neither one is exactly a RSN item. Persons needing this capability RSN might want to contact Mimetics and see if their A500/A2000 genlock device is ready yet. -- George Robbins - now working for, uucp: {ihnp4|rutgers|allegra}!cbmvax!grr but no way officially representing arpa: out to lunch... Commodore, Engineering Department fone: 215-431-9255 (only by moonlite)
peter@sugar.UUCP (Peter da Silva) (11/19/87)
In article <2776@cbmvax.UUCP>, grr@cbmvax.UUCP (George Robbins) writes: > Both the A2000 version of the Genlock peripheral and the A2000 composite > adapter will provide composite video... > All I can say at this point is that given production lead times, > neither one is exactly a RSN item. > > Persons needing this capability RSN might want to contact Mimetics and see > if their A500/A2000 genlock device is ready yet. Check out the latest AmigaWorld. I saw at least two RGB-Composite adapters advertised. No idea on price. No cheap Zorro-II boxes for the A1000 yet. Pacific Peripherals has one for the A500, though, as well as their $200 Zorro-I box for the A1000. Query: does the A1000 power supply have enough OOMPH to drive a single slot unpowered Zorro-II adapter. (for sure the A500 doesn't, right?) -- -- Peter da Silva `-_-' ...!hoptoad!academ!uhnix1!sugar!peter -- Disclaimer: These U aren't mere opinions... these are *values*.
daveh@cbmvax.UUCP (Dave Haynie) (11/20/87)
in article <1087@sugar.UUCP>, peter@sugar.UUCP (Peter da Silva) says: > Summary: RGB-Composite video. > Query: does the A1000 power supply have enough OOMPH to drive a single > slot unpowered Zorro-II adapter. (for sure the A500 doesn't, right?) The A1000 comes pretty close. The 86 pin edge is specified as being capable of supplying 1 Amp at 5 VDC. That's about enough for a Zorro interface and maybe a 2 meg memory card (done right), certainly not enough to power an 8 meg memory card or a hard disk drive (though it could power a hard disk controller if you used a self-powered drive). The A500 shouldn't have anything unpowered extra added to it other than a second floppy and the internal RAM card. NO EXCEPTIONS, you really don't want to fry your A500 power supply. Or perhaps worse, lower the resulting system voltage to the point that the machine runs, but runs flakey. > -- Peter da Silva `-_-' ...!hoptoad!academ!uhnix1!sugar!peter > -- Disclaimer: These U aren't mere opinions... these are *values*. -- Dave Haynie Commodore-Amiga Usenet: {ihnp4|caip|rutgers}!cbmvax!daveh "The B2000 Guy" PLINK : D-DAVE H BIX : hazy "I can't relax, 'cause I'm a Boinger!"