[comp.sys.amiga] Info on planned ROM upgrades-A2000?

jacobson@uxe.cso.uiuc.edu (11/23/87)

This is to the folks at CA, (George or others). Harv Laser mentioned the
new stuff planned for 88 that Dale and others mentioned at the JAUG
meeting last Friday. I am curious about the KS 1.21-1.3-1.4 rom upgrades
planned for 88.  
  
First of all he says it is easy to replace the roms in the A2000. How 
easy is it. Do you need a chip puller, are the roms easy to get out of
the sockets?
  
Second, with upgrades planned for Feb, (ver 1.21 KS and 1.2 WB), Spring,
(ver 1.3 KS) and Summber (ver 1.4 KS) is there any reason to get each as
they come out? I mean depending on how easy it is for the non-hardware
person like me to put the roms in both of my 2000's (yes I have two one
at home and one at work now!) this could be a real bother upgrading roms
every few months. However if they come out of the sockets real easy, then
I guess it is no bother.
  
However given the fact that there appears to be plans for upgrades all
the way through 1.4 KS, is there any reason for us 2000 owners to get all
3 upgrades. Or should we wait for the last one of the year, like 1.4.
What advantage (if any) would there be for getting each upgrade as they
come out---especially if it is a big hassle to put the roms in (I don't
want to have to haul both machines to the dealers every few months as 1.21,
then 1.3, and finally 1.4 comes out). But if average me, with no chip pullers
can find the roms easy to replace, is it still worth the cost/hassle or
should I wait till say 1.4 comes out?
  
Just curious, but I hate to waste time and energy (plus hassle if roms are
hard to put in myself) upgrading so often. I had hoped I would not have to
for awhile---plus I don't think I will have the $ to pay for up to 3 rom
upgrades in as little as one year!
  
Any comments the CATS staff could make on what an a2000 or a500 owner should
do would be most appreciated. We thank you for all the wonderful support
you have been giving us on the NET. MUCH APPRECIATED BY ME!!!!!!!!!

Russ Jacobson, Coal Geologist
Illinois Geological Survey
Rm 203 Nat. Res. Bldg.
615 E. Peabody Drive
Champaign, IL 61820
 
1-217-244-2425
 
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grr@cbmvax.UUCP (George Robbins) (11/24/87)

In article <45600039@uxe.cso.uiuc.edu> jacobson@uxe.cso.uiuc.edu writes:
> 
> This is to the folks at CA, (George or others). Harv Laser mentioned the
> new stuff planned for 88 that Dale and others mentioned at the JAUG
> meeting last Friday. I am curious about the KS 1.21-1.3-1.4 rom upgrades
> planned for 88.  

For perspective sake, please note that any of the things reported were
at best informed opinions on what should happen in the future, not
"official" announcments or releases.
   
> First of all he says it is easy to replace the roms in the A2000. How 
> easy is it. Do you need a chip puller, are the roms easy to get out of
> the sockets?

A screwdriver seems to work quite nicely.

>   
> Second, with upgrades planned for Feb, (ver 1.21 KS and 1.2 WB), Spring,
> (ver 1.3 KS) and Summber (ver 1.4 KS) is there any reason to get each as
> they come out?

As I understand it, the general idea is to get out a version with improved
HD/A2000 support fairly quickly, while the latter version(s)  will include
more in the way of enhancements.  Other than suggesting that 1.2.1 might
not be very interesting to people without hard disks, I think it will be
a while before the details of the other releases will be firmed up.  

-- 
George Robbins - now working for,	uucp: {uunet|ihnp4|rutgers}!cbmvax!grr
but no way officially representing	arpa: cbmvax!grr@uunet.uu.net
Commodore, Engineering Department	fone: 215-431-9255 (only by moonlite)

mp1u+@andrew.cmu.edu (Michael Portuesi) (11/25/87)

> Second, with upgrades planned for Feb, (ver 1.21 KS and 1.2 WB), Spring,
> (ver 1.3 KS) and Summber (ver 1.4 KS) is there any reason to get each as
> they come out?

Somehow I find it hard to believe these rumors...that seems like a pretty
tight timetable for upgrades to the system software.  I can believe the 1.3
release for spring, but a 1.4 release for summer seems a bit far-fetched.

On the same topic, I was considering buying a Kickstart ROM for my A1000.
The two competing units seem to be CMI's Kickstart Eliminator and Michigan
Software's Kwikstart.  The Kwikstart seems to have an advantage in that you
can get back to the normal Kickstart screen by holding down some esoteric key
sequence.  I have some questions?

	* If Commodore provides a future upgrade to Kickstart in ROM, will it
work directly with either/both of these kits or will I have to go to the
manufacturer for an update?

	* What happens if Commodore starts using the second half of the
Kickstart ROM space?  The CMI product uses that space to map the Kickstart
RAM to.  Does that mean the CMI board is in trouble in that case?  What about
the Kwikstart board?  Does it map the Kickstart RAM to the same address
space?

	* Is there any way to provide 512K Kickstart ROM space on the A1000?
The comments from the Commodore folk so far have indicated that if the extra
Kickstart ROM gets used, it would more than likely be for stuff that would
otherwise reside on the Workbench disk, rather than introduce
incompatibilities between the 1000 and the 500/2000.  Nevertheless, it would
be convenient to have the whole thing in ROM on the A1000 too.


Michael Portuesi / Carnegie Mellon University
ARPA/UUCP: mp1u+@andrew.cmu.edu	BITNET: rainwalker@drycas

"off the rack or custom-fit, it all seems the same"
		--ABC, "Date Stamp"

manes@xanth.UUCP (Mark Manes) (11/26/87)

FLAME ON!

In article <45600039@uxe.cso.uiuc.edu> jacobson@uxe.cso.uiuc.edu writes:
>
>This is to the folks at CA, (George or others). Harv Laser mentioned the
>new stuff planned for 88 that Dale and others mentioned at the JAUG
>meeting last Friday. I am curious about the KS 1.21-1.3-1.4 rom upgrades
>planned for 88.  
>  
>First of all he says it is easy to replace the roms in the A2000. How 
>easy is it. Do you need a chip puller, are the roms easy to get out of
>the sockets?

Isnt that a silly question???  Of course you should use a chip puller,
and yes, so you dont ask Commodore, you should probably wear a grounding
strap as well!

>  
>Second, with upgrades planned for Feb, (ver 1.21 KS and 1.2 WB), Spring,
>(ver 1.3 KS) and Summber (ver 1.4 KS) is there any reason to get each as
>they come out? I mean depending on how easy it is for the non-hardware
>person like me to put the roms in both of my 2000's (yes I have two one
>at home and one at work now!) this could be a real bother upgrading roms
>every few months. However if they come out of the sockets real easy, then
>I guess it is no bother.

It is for this very reason that the folks at Commodore never give dates!
Those dates are RUMORS!  Not fact!  Planned is another key word.  They
have not yet even got a good start on 1.3 from what I hear.  You should
always keep your system software / hardware up to date so the latest 
copy of blow the aliens works!  Think man!

>  
>However given the fact that there appears to be plans for upgrades all
>the way through 1.4 KS, is there any reason for us 2000 owners to get all
>3 upgrades. Or should we wait for the last one of the year, like 1.4.
>What advantage (if any) would there be for getting each upgrade as they
>come out---especially if it is a big hassle to put the roms in (I don't
>want to have to haul both machines to the dealers every few months as 1.21,
>then 1.3, and finally 1.4 comes out). But if average me, with no chip pullers
>can find the roms easy to replace, is it still worth the cost/hassle or
>should I wait till say 1.4 comes out?

Too many upgrades????  Oh my gosh!  Please do not worry about it.

>Russ Jacobson, Coal Geologist
>Illinois Geological Survey
>Rm 203 Nat. Res. Bldg.
>615 E. Peabody Drive
>Champaign, IL 61820
> 
>1-217-244-2425
> 

bryce@hoser.berkeley.edu (Bryce Nesbitt) (11/26/87)

In article <> mp1u+@andrew.cmu.edu (Michael Portuesi) writes:

>	* Is there any way to provide 512K Kickstart ROM space on the A1000?

Yes.  Provided you are talking a ROM kit, it would not be much harder
to make it 512K of ROM vs. 256K of ROM.  (To do a Kickstart in ROM
upgrade already requires a little hardware hacking, doing 512K is not
any more involved).

If you want to boot a 512K Kickstart disk the hack gets much more
involved.


On a separate subject, the internal piggyback-the-chip-ram hack would
be very interesting to do as a piggyback-the-WCS hack.  The chip hack
ends up as half-fast memory.  WCS is true-fast.

Random technical info:

Normally the WCS is at $FC0000.  With KS in ROM the normal
setup is ROM at $FC0000 and the 256K of ram at $F80000.  Some
people have set this up so V1.2 is in ROM, and V1.1 Kickstart
is loaded into the memory.  A switch swaps Kickstarts.


>	* If Commodore provides a future upgrade to Kickstart in ROM, will it
>work directly with either/both of these kits or will I have to go to the
>manufacturer for an update?

Commodore will probably release the ROMs in two forms:

A Kickstart disk
A 128K * 16 bit ROM, as used in the A500/A2000.

This means that you will need to have somebody reprogram the EPROMS in
your upgrade kit.  This will probably be supported by the manufacturer
of your kit.  Alternately you could purchase the new Kickstart disk
and have your local hardware hacker do the ROM job.

(You purchase the disk so you legally own a copy of the new Kickstart)

|\ /|  . Ack! (NAK, SOH, EOT)
{o O} . bryce@hoser.berkeley.EDU -or- ucbvax!hoser!bryce
 (") 
  U	WARNING: hoser's spool directory eats a *lot* of mail. :-(

daveh@cbmvax.UUCP (11/30/87)

in article <cVeloXy00XcQQU80-l@andrew.cmu.edu>, mp1u+@andrew.cmu.edu (Michael Portuesi) says:
> In-Reply-To: <45600039@uxe.cso.uiuc.edu>

> 	* If Commodore provides a future upgrade to Kickstart in ROM, will it
> work directly with either/both of these kits or will I have to go to the
> manufacturer for an update?

From what I've seen, these kits use 4 x 512K ROMs, while the A2000-style ROM
is a single 2Meg ROM.  So you'd probably have to get the ROM from them, not
Amiga.  Or make them yourself if you have an EPROM burner (I'd expect the
ROMs they give you are EPROMs, not masked ROMs, so you could erase the old
ones and put in the new code with access to the proper hardware).

> 	* What happens if Commodore starts using the second half of the
> Kickstart ROM space?  The CMI product uses that space to map the Kickstart
> RAM to.  

I expect that's a problem to some degree.  If a 512K KickStart ROM came
along, you might put the 256K version in ROM, then put most of the extra
stuff in that special 256K with a custom boot disk.  Kind of like a half
KickStart boot disk.

> 	* Is there any way to provide 512K Kickstart ROM space on the A1000?
> The comments from the Commodore folk so far have indicated that if the extra
> Kickstart ROM gets used, it would more than likely be for stuff that would
> otherwise reside on the Workbench disk, rather than introduce
> incompatibilities between the 1000 and the 500/2000.  Nevertheless, it would
> be convenient to have the whole thing in ROM on the A1000 too.

512K of ROM on the A1000 would need some special hardware of some kind.  The
4 x 512K EPROMs are just about all that fits in the allocated space, but if
the daughterboard is gone anyway, I'm sure that 1 x 4meg or 2 x 2meg ROMs
could be put in place.  It's already decoded for that, just a matter of
hooking everything up properly.  Though it's probably going to be awhile 
before there's a 512K KickStart.

> Michael Portuesi / Carnegie Mellon University
-- 
Dave Haynie     Commodore-Amiga    Usenet: {ihnp4|uunet|rutgers}!cbmvax!daveh
   "The B2000 Guy"              PLINK : D-DAVE H             BIX   : hazy
		"I can't relax, 'cause I'm a Boinger!"