joseph@garfield.UUCP (11/24/87)
I was just talking to a friend who works at one of the local Amiga
stores. He said that the new KickStart will have NONE or very little
WorkBench stuff in it. This will mean the new WB 1.3 will have a lot
of space on it used up for WB. (As if I had LOADS of room on my WB.)
If this is true we have a much bigger problem. When I stick in any
program made for KS 1.2 it will expect to find part or WB loaded with
KS, but if KS 1.21 will not have it loaded what will happen?
I hope my friend is wrong or most all WB 1.2 will not run under
KS 1.21.
Joseph
P.S. SUBJECT: AC-BASIC Compiler...
I am having real problems when compiling my BASIC programs. I
get a lot of guru's. Any reason for this? [I am using a 1000
with 2 MEGs of fast ram.]cmcmanis%pepper@Sun.COM (Chuck McManis) (11/25/87)
In article <4247@garfield.UUCP> (Joseph Dawson) writes: > I was just talking to a friend who works at one of the local Amiga >stores. He said that the new KickStart will have NONE or very little >WorkBench stuff in it. This will mean the new WB 1.3 will have a lot >of space on it used up for WB. (As if I had LOADS of room on my WB.) That second fact does not follow from the first. True if the workbench code that is currently resident in the ROM gets pulled out into a disk library, it will take up space on the WorkBench disk, but how much space is not known by us mere mortals. Personally, I think it is a good thing since the ROM routines can be enhanced and programs that could care less about the Workbench (some games come to mind) would have a wider variety of things to work with. I would like to see some Hi-res font stuck in there as well (a redesigned Topaz-11 would be nice) so that I can assume a decent font will be available for my 640 X 400 screens. > If this is true we have a much bigger problem. When I stick in any >program made for KS 1.2 it will expect to find part or WB loaded with >KS, but if KS 1.21 will not have it loaded what will happen? If you haven't done a LoadWB then your program can't get to the workbench. So there wouldn't be any change. If you do use LoadWB then you will have to copy that to your disk anyway, in this case it may be a bit larger than you are used to. > I hope my friend is wrong or most all WB 1.2 will not run under >KS 1.21. Why wouldn't it still run? I can see two possible senarios either workbench.library is included on the new 1.3 workbench disk and LoadWB is unchanged or, LoadWB creates the library itself and uses MakeLibrary to install it on the system list (it could also try opening it first for backward compatibility.) However, I would like to see Commodore go to 512K (or 1Meg) ROM's so that there would be lots of room to add useful features. --Chuck McManis uucp: {anywhere}!sun!cmcmanis BIX: cmcmanis ARPAnet: cmcmanis@sun.com These opinions are my own and no one elses, but you knew that didnDec|suns
andy@cbmvax.UUCP (Andy Finkel) (11/25/87)
In article <4247@garfield.UUCP> joseph@garfield.UUCP (Joseph Dawson) writes: > I was just talking to a friend who works at one of the local Amiga >stores. He said that the new KickStart will have NONE or very little >WorkBench stuff in it. This will mean the new WB 1.3 will have a lot >of space on it used up for WB. (As if I had LOADS of room on my WB.) > > If this is true we have a much bigger problem. When I stick in any >program made for KS 1.2 it will expect to find part or WB loaded with >KS, but if KS 1.21 will not have it loaded what will happen? > > I hope my friend is wrong or most all WB 1.2 will not run under >KS 1.21. > This is indeed our current thinking. Let me explain our logic behind the decision...(because I'd rather know about the problems now, rather than after the release :-) ) The problem: The roms are full. There are things we'd like to add. And we're not quite ready to go to 512K of ROM. (no flames on that, please) So, what to do ? In looking over the things in ROM, there is only one candidate for removal that shouldn't break anything...only one module with no calls, only one program, in fact, that knows how to use it at all. That's right, I'm talking Workbench. The only program that knows how to start Workbench is LoadWB. Workbench has no calls for other programs to make...thus, moving it to the Workbench disk shouldn't break any programs. So, a V1.2 program won't break. Using a V1.2 Workbench disk won't bring up Workbench directly, true, but you could adjust your disk. (probably we'll put up an informative message when the V1.2 LoadWB is run) -- andy finkel {ihnp4|seismo|allegra}!cbmvax!andy Commodore-Amiga, Inc. "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo." Any expressed opinions are mine; but feel free to share. I disclaim all responsibilities, all shapes, all sizes, all colors.
manes@xanth.UUCP (Mark Manes) (11/26/87)
In article <4247@garfield.UUCP> joseph@garfield.UUCP (Joseph Dawson) writes: > I was just talking to a friend who works at one of the local Amiga >stores. He said that the new KickStart will have NONE or very little >WorkBench stuff in it. This will mean the new WB 1.3 will have a lot >of space on it used up for WB. (As if I had LOADS of room on my WB.) Kickstart v1.21 only has the new filing system and autoboot capability, Workbench stuff will still be in the roms. 1.3 Commodore-Amiga is planning on removing the Workbench stuff from ROM and moving it into a library or something on your disk. It should still be compatable with software > Joseph > >P.S. SUBJECT: AC-BASIC Compiler... > I am having real problems when compiling my BASIC programs. I > get a lot of guru's. Any reason for this? [I am using a 1000 > with 2 MEGs of fast ram.] I use the Absoft Compiler regularly in 2mg no problem, I need more information before I can help with that. Like what is the guru number, what is your program doing? What version of the compiler do you have? You will note that I did not flame you, please give more info when you post this kind of message. Tis impossible to help with so little information. -mark=
ewhac@well.UUCP (Leo 'Bols Ewhac' Schwab) (11/27/87)
In article <2865@cbmvax.UUCP> andy@cbmvax.UUCP (Andy Finkel) writes: >In looking over the things in ROM, there is only one candidate for removal >that shouldn't break anything...only one module with no calls, only one >program, in fact, that knows how to use it at all. That's right, I'm >talking Workbench. > You might also consider adding the clist.library to the list. So far as I know, only one person has ever used it in a program, and it was never released. BTW, a long time ago, someone posted a message descibing more fully what the clist.library did. It seemed interesting enough to try playing with, but I never got around to it. Since then, my copy of the file was overwritten on my backup tape. Could someone mail me a copy of that document? Tan Queue Fairy Mulch. _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ Leo L. Schwab -- The Guy in The Cape ihnp4!ptsfa -\ \_ -_ Recumbent Bikes: dual ---> !{well,unicom}!ewhac O----^o The Only Way To Fly. hplabs / (pronounced "AE-wack") "Work FOR? I don't work FOR anybody! I'm just having fun." -- The Doctor
dillon@CORY.BERKELEY.EDU (Matt Dillon) (11/30/87)
>Workbench stuff will still be in the roms. 1.3 Commodore-Amiga is planning >on removing the Workbench stuff from ROM and moving it into a library >or something on your disk. It should still be compatable with software Everybody knows why the workbench is being placed on disk, right? It's to make room for all the new goodies being put in 1.3 . Kickstart hackers such as Bryce will tell you (told me) that... the thing is filled to its 256K brim. -Matt
peter@sugar.UUCP (Peter da Silva) (11/30/87)
In article <2865@cbmvax.UUCP>, andy@cbmvax.UUCP (Andy Finkel) writes: > The problem: The roms are full. There are things we'd like to add. > And we're not quite ready to go to 512K of ROM. (no flames on that, please) Thank you. If you were going to 512 *I* would have flamed you. I don't think I have 512K of kickstart space in my 1000. Do I? > So, a V1.2 program won't break. Using a V1.2 Workbench disk won't > bring up Workbench directly, true, but you could adjust your disk. > (probably we'll put up an informative message when the V1.2 LoadWB > is run) Will V1.2 LoadWB return an error code 20? If it doesn't a good many startup sequences (like the ones on a number of games) will immediately do an EndCLI and not only disappear your message but take the system into limbo. This gives me an incentive to hack HackBench into something real (I don't recall who posted HackBench, but thanks!). -- -- Peter da Silva `-_-' ...!hoptoad!academ!uhnix1!sugar!peter -- Disclaimer: These U aren't mere opinions... these are *values*.
bryce@hoser.berkeley.edu (Bryce Nesbitt) (12/03/87)
In article <1147@sugar.UUCP> peter@sugar.UUCP (Peter da Silva) writes: >In article <2865@cbmvax.UUCP>, andy@cbmvax.UUCP (Andy Finkel) writes: >> The problem: The roms are full. There are things we'd like to add. >> And we're not quite ready to go to 512K of ROM. (no flames on that, please) > >Thank you. If you were going to 512 *I* would have flamed you. I don't think >I have 512K of kickstart space in my 1000. Do I? Sure you do! You won't get it on a Kickstart disk without lots of hassle, but just like A500/A2000 owners you go out an buy the ROM. The difference is that for the A1000 it comes on a little tower with descriptions of what jumpers to hit and where to attach the micro-clip(s). Very little work compared to a 256K ROM upgrade alone. (Less if you consider that the 256K ROM upgrade requires soldering in two new sockets). Or you load up 256K of the ROM in the old sockets and soft-load the other 256K from disk. (into your 256K of old Kickstart RAM). (yech!) |\ /| . Ack! (NAK, SOH, EOT) {o O} . bryce@hoser.berkeley.EDU -or- ucbvax!hoser!bryce (") U WARNING: hoser's spool directory eats a *lot* of mail. :-(