[comp.sys.amiga] Amiga memory and serial questions

gt4785b@pyr.gatech.EDU (CARTER) (11/28/87)

Is there a magazine article or technical reference manual that gives a good,
clear explanation of the differences between slow ram, fast ram, and slow-fast
(half-fast?) ram?

And since I didn't get any reply to my question "What bit rates are available
on the serial port?" can somebody at least tell me what the MIDI bit rate is?
I've heard 'guesses' of 32,768 and 30,500, but my communications text says
that 20,000 bps is a practical upper limit for RS-232.

David Carter       (waiting for ml as fi i

dillon@CORY.BERKELEY.EDU (Matt Dillon) (11/30/87)

	The serial controller can generate any baud rate:

		rate = (N+1) * 279.4 ns		(N: 0..32767)

	E.g. 109.2 to 3,579,098 baud.  However, the processor can only
shove data out so fast.  a lowly 68000 cannot read data at the maximum baud 
rate without overrun either.

	I recall a previous message asking about baud rates, but the path
was not on the arpa net (as this one is), and USENET mail bounced.
	
					-Matt

wolf@ssyx.ucsc.edu (Mike Wolf,4264777) (12/02/87)

In article <4558@pyr.gatech.EDU> gt4785b@pyr.UUCP (David Carter) writes:
>
>And since I didn't get any reply to my question "What bit rates are available
>on the serial port?" can somebody at least tell me what the MIDI bit rate is?
>I've heard 'guesses' of 32,768 and 30,500, but my communications text says
>that 20,000 bps is a practical upper limit for RS-232.
>
>David Carter       (waiting for my A500!)

Hmm, last time I checked, my GraphOn 250 can zip along as high
as 56.7 KBaud.  Even old VT100's can do 19.2 KBaud.

+------------------------------------+---------------------------------------+
|        Michael Wolf                | An old Scandinavian quote:            |
|  BITNET: wolf@ucscj.BITNET         |   "You can lead a herring to water,   |
|  ARPA:   wolf@ssyx.ucsc.edu        |    but you have to walk real fast,    |
|  UUCP: ...ucbvax!ucscc!ssyx!wolf   |    or else he'll die."                |
+------------------------------------+---------------------------------------+

hedley@cbmvax.UUCP (12/03/87)

In article <1303@saturn.ucsc.edu> wolf@ssyx.ucsc.edu (Mike Wolf) writes:
>>
>>And since I didn't get any reply to my question "What bit rates are available
>>on the serial port?" can somebody at least tell me what the MIDI bit rate is?
>>I've heard 'guesses' of 32,768 and 30,500, but my communications text says
>>that 20,000 bps is a practical upper limit for RS-232.
>>

Sorry about the delay, I guess everyone else thought somebody else would
answer this question. ( At least we all hoped ). ANYWAY,

Standard baud rates for amiga include:
	110,150,300,600,1200,2400,4800,9600,19200 & 31250.

Midi baud rate is:
	31250. <- included as standard.

In reality, the amiga is capable of many more baud rates as the bit
timing can be controled with a rather fine granularity. The list above
merely reflects the baudrates which preferences directly supports.

Hedley

daveh@cbmvax.UUCP (12/04/87)

in article <1303@saturn.ucsc.edu>, wolf@ssyx.ucsc.edu (Mike Wolf,4264777) says:
> Keywords: slow ram, fast ram, MIDI
> In article <4558@pyr.gatech.EDU> gt4785b@pyr.UUCP (David Carter) writes:
>>And since I didn't get any reply to my question "What bit rates are available
>>on the serial port?" can somebody at least tell me what the MIDI bit rate is?
>>I've heard 'guesses' of 32,768 and 30,500, but my communications text says
>>that 20,000 bps is a practical upper limit for RS-232.
>>
>>David Carter       (waiting for my A500!)
> 
> Hmm, last time I checked, my GraphOn 250 can zip along as high
> as 56.7 KBaud.  Even old VT100's can do 19.2 KBaud.

Yeah.  Remember, everyone, that RS-232 is a complete protocol with all kinds
of specs.  All together, taking the longest permissible cable and other worst
case things, the specification probably reads that 20,000 bps is the upper
limit on what you can use without dropping bits.  Sounds reasonable, but how
many of you are using 100ft cables?  For the 2 foot cable that goes between
your Amigas, 31.8K or whatever is probably no problem.  The RS-232 spec
doesn't place any inherent limit on how fast your RS-232 hardware can run,
only how fast physics might be likely to let it run over a long cable.  And
even at that, it might still work.  It's just that if it doesn't meet the
spec, it's not really RS-232.

> Michael Wolf
-- 
Dave Haynie     Commodore-Amiga    Usenet: {ihnp4|uunet|rutgers}!cbmvax!daveh
   "The B2000 Guy"              PLINK : D-DAVE H             BIX   : hazy
		"I can't relax, 'cause I'm a Boinger!"

karl@sugar.UUCP (Karl Lehenbauer) (12/05/87)

> In article <4558@pyr.gatech.EDU> gt4785b@pyr.UUCP (David Carter) writes:
> >And since I didn't get any reply to my question "What bit rates are available
> >on the serial port?" can somebody at least tell me what the MIDI bit rate is?
> >I've heard 'guesses' of 32,768 and 30,500, but my communications text says
> >that 20,000 bps is a practical upper limit for RS-232.

MIDI runs at 31250 bits per second.  That is one million divided by 32,
a useful number for people doing dedicated MIDI interfaces (i.e.
ones that only run at the MIDI clock rate)  Note that this is still an
asynchronous protocol; two framing bits are transmitted per byte of data. 

MIDI is not RS-232.  RS-232 uses +/- 12 volts for ones and zeros.
MIDI uses five and zero volts.  Also note that MIDI cable lengths over
50 feet are not recommended and MIDI does occasionaly drop a bit.  Since
it's not an error free protocol (other than certain manafacturer's system
exclusive formats and the sample dump standard) that can cause all sorts
of problems, the most common of which is hanging notes, but that's another
story for another time.
-- 
..!uunet!nuchat!sugar!karl
Unix BBS (713) 933-2440

grr@cbmvax.UUCP (George Robbins) (12/06/87)

In article <4558@pyr.gatech.EDU> gt4785b@pyr.UUCP (David Carter) writes:
> Is there a magazine article or technical reference manual that gives a good,
> clear explanation of the differences between slow ram, fast ram, and slow-fast
> (half-fast?) ram?

Chip memory is memory that can be accessed by the Amiga custom chips for
various purposes including video refresh.  In the higher resolution* video
modes this video refresh uses up some or all of the cycles normally usable
for processor access resulting in contention, which is to say that the
processor effectively runs slower when accessing chip memory.

Fast memory is memory that is not on the Amiga chip's memory bus, and thus
avoids contention, allowing the processor to run at full speed without regard
to the video mode. 

The internal expansion memory in the A500 and A2000 is on the chip memory
bus but is not accessible by the Amiga custom chips due to limitations in
the addressing capabilities of the Agnus chip.  Since it is on the chip
memory bus it suffers from the same contention constraints as the other
chip memory.

Originally, the C00000-D7FFFF area where this memory is position was
documented as being for "fast" internal expansion for future machines,
however when we designed the A500, we found that putting the internal
expansion memory on the chip memory bus, but having it respond to these
addresses would allow us to include provision for up to 1MByte of internal
expansion memory without the additional expense** and complications of the
circuitry required to implement "fast" memory and would still be compatible
with the existing 1.2 software.

The confusion of having "chip" or "slow" memory residing in this putativly
"fast" memory allocation has led to the rather perverse "slow/fast" or
"half/fast"*** memory designations.

Notes:

* It should be noted that the Amiga hi-res modes are not present in the Atari
  ST family and that no contention occurs when using the lower resolutions
  such as those implemented in the ST.  This means that the only performance
  difference results from the Amiga's 7.16 Mhz CPU clock rate vs the ST's
  8 Mhz clock.  However it is this relation of the Amiga's clock rate to the
  various NTSC video timings that allows simple implementation of the Amiga's
  video related features and accessories.

** rule of the computer biz: if it costs us money to put in a feature, then
   the list price goes up - it had better be worth it to the majority of
   your customers.

*** this is supposed to be funny, I think - time will tell...

-- 
George Robbins - now working for,	uucp: {uunet|ihnp4|rutgers}!cbmvax!grr
but no way officially representing	arpa: cbmvax!grr@uunet.uu.net
Commodore, Engineering Department	fone: 215-431-9255 (only by moonlite)