treese@athena.mit.edu (Win Treese) (12/12/87)
Two and a half weeks ago, I ordered the M2Amiga demo disk. It finally
arrived today. Of course, I called them to complain this afternoon,
only to come home and find it.
"Pretty exciting," I thought. "A chance to check out this supposed-to-be
wonderful new system."
Alas, it was not to be:
The package contained a single disk and a pamphlet on M2Amiga. The pamphlet
described the advantages of Modula-2 and the features of this implementation
for the Amiga. Still sounded good. There was, however, no documentation
on how to run the demo.
"Hmm," said I. "Must be a self-explanatory demo on the disk."
But no. First I tried to boot the disk, but it didn't work. So I
booted my usual disk and started to look around on the demo disk using
the workbench. One icon wanted to execute SYS:m2emacs so I could read
a file. The other icons didn't work (it turns out you have to click on
the tiny white areas of those icons for them to work. This was mentioned
in the documentation I couldn't get to because I couldn't find my past the
icons...)
So I switched to the CLI. There were no useful files (e.g., "README")
at the top level, so I checked out the subdirectory M2AMIGA. Finally,
a "README" file. It told me that this disk wasn't bootable, and that
I should format a disk and run the program "DoMe" from the current
directory.
So I do this. The "DoMe" program asks how many drives I have, asks to
put the newly-formatted disk in the boot drive, and promptly visits the
GURU.
"Maybe the new disk should be bootable," suggests one of my housemates.
So I reboot, run "install" and try again, also using a vanilla workbench 1.2
disk straight from Commodore-Amiga.
Now I get past the place where it GURU'ed the first time. The next screen
displayed tells me that I need to run "install" on my new disk. Thanks.
Then it grinds away for a while, and I end up with a bootable disk with
the demos on it.
So I boot it. First time I try to do anything, it dies with a read/write
error.
I try to make another one. 5 attempts at this fail, all with the "DoMe"
program meditating.
"Well," I thought, "maybe I can put one together by copying the files over
by hand," and I give that a try. Finally, I get another disk that I
can run with.
I boot that disk. I now have to figure out how to run the editor, compiler,
and linker. Fortunately, it's relatively straightforward for experienced
programmers used to obscure techniques. Four hours after I started, I
have compiled one of the programs on the disk and it actually runs.
The editor seems to be derived from a relatively old microemacs, with
some extensions for handling Modula-2 (like auto-indent and chasing down
errors). It was nowhere near as nice as, say, mg is these days.
It also runs in its own screen, so it's not easy to pop back and forth
between a CLI window to run the compiler in.
There doesn't appear to be a way to invoke the compiler and linker
from the editor, so another window is absolutely necessary. The compiler
and linker must be run separately, so I figured I'd need to use 'make'
for anything useful. The environment doesn't seem to be that much
easier to use than Aztec C, except for the minor editor hacks. And any
emacs can be taught to do that...
After fighting with all this, I just can't see myself spending $250 for the
real product. How's Benchmark Modula-2 look?
Win Treese
MIT Project Athena
treese@athena.MIT.EDU
...!{backbones}!mit-eddie!treeseoconnor@sunray.steinmetz (Dennis M. O'Connor) (12/18/87)
An article by treese@athena.mit.edu (Win Treese) says: > [ ... stuff about problems with a M2Amiga demo disk ... ] >After fighting with all this, I just can't see myself spending $250 for the >real product. How's Benchmark Modula-2 look? > > Win Treese I have used Leon Frenkel's Benchmark Modula2 for some small stuff : a fuzzy-controller, a back-chained expert system, and a more complex system with an expert system and a fuzzy controller ( runs orcs for AD&D, does the strategic thinking ) and am QUITE happy it. With FACC running, thinks are generally very fast ( compiling and linking). I have no complaints about code size and execution speed, but I've only done small things ( 46Kbyte executable ). But I am very happy with it. Now if only Modula2 was more like Ada! Then I'd really be happy. Generics! Complex objects returned by functions ! Limited Private types ! Subranges of REALS ! Hey, but anythings better than C or Basic ! :-) :-) ( Just an opinion, different strokes etc. etc. ) -- Dennis O'Connor oconnor@sungoddess.steinmetz.UUCP ?? ARPA: OCONNORDM@ge-crd.arpa "If I have an "s" in my name, am I a PHIL-OSS-IF-FER?"
schaub@sugar.UUCP (Markus Schaub) (12/20/87)
treese@athena.mit.edu (Win Treese) writes: > Two and a half weeks ago, I ordered the M2Amiga demo disk. It finally > arrived today. Of course, I called them to complain this afternoon, UPS is really slow this time of the year, SORRY about that. We immediatly did send another disk. > "Hmm," said I. "Must be a self-explanatory demo on the disk." > But no. First I tried to boot the disk, but it didn't work. So I Have you ever heard that Commodore's Bootstuff is copyrighted and that we would need a special license? > So I do this. The "DoMe" program asks how many drives I have, asks to > put the newly-formatted disk in the boot drive, and promptly visits the > GURU. PLEASE tell me about your configuration and check the M2Amiga demo disk for errors. We NEVER had any reports on such problems! I just tried it again and it worked. > "Maybe the new disk should be bootable," suggests one of my housemates. > So I reboot, run "install" and try again, also using a vanilla workbench 1.2 DoMe does NOT need a bootable disk, it just installs a combination of files from the Workbench and the demo disk on the new disk. To boot the working copy you need to install it before or after DoMe. > Now I get past the place where it GURU'ed the first time. The next screen > displayed tells me that I need to run "install" on my new disk. Thanks. See above > Then it grinds away for a while, and I end up with a bootable disk with > the demos on it. That's how it is supposed to be. > So I boot it. First time I try to do anything, it dies with a read/write > error. > I try to make another one. 5 attempts at this fail, all with the "DoMe" > program meditating. Did you try another empty disk? PLEASE again tell me exactly where it happend. If there really is a problem I'll fix it. But 'til now I cannot reproduce it. > "Well," I thought, "maybe I can put one together by copying the files over > by hand," and I give that a try. Finally, I get another disk that I ... > and linker. Fortunately, it's relatively straightforward for experienced > programmers used to obscure techniques. Four hours after I started, I > have compiled one of the programs on the disk and it actually runs. Just use the workbench and all techniques you're used to. Select the program sources and double click the compiler's icon. Easy and straightforward for experienced Amiga users (not programmers). > errors). It was nowhere near as nice as, say, mg is these days. > It also runs in its own screen, so it's not easy to pop back and forth > between a CLI window to run the compiler in. Did you really write that??? Switching between screens is 'not easy'??? Can I assume you don't like the fact that you have the WB screen without an editor window while doing some other stuff? > After fighting with all this, I just can't see myself spending $250 for the > real product. How's Benchmark Modula-2 look? I hope your pulse came down below 100 in the meantime. I can understand that your not very happy after this experience. This is the first complaint about the installation and the demo disk at all. What was the experience of all the other people out there in netland who tried the demo disk. According to the orders it can't be too bad. Remeber, we are here to provide a good product but we are not perfect either. Also remeber that we provide a cheap demo disk to enable you to have a look a the product. I had to pay 200 bucks just to have a look at another Modula-2 system. Comments and critics always welcome. PS: The introductory offer is $199 (+$10 shipping) 'til December 31, 1987! > Win Treese > MIT Project Athena Happy Holidays -- // Markus Schaub uunet!nuchat!sugar!schaub (713) 523 8422 // M2Amiga Developer trying to get back the money I paid for my \\ // Amiga by selling a few M2Amiga. \X/ c/o Interface Technologies Corp, 3336 Richmond #323, Houston Tx 77098