craig@unicus.UUCP (12/09/87)
Two questions:
Who makes unpopulated (0 meg) 8meg Zorro II cards,
and what do they cost, and are they in any way flaky
in anything other than an A2000 card-cage ?
Who makes Zorro II SOTS boxes for the A1000 ?
It should accept one, two, or three Zorro II cards,
pass the bus, deal with its own timing problems
(not force the card (or me) to), and pass the bus.
If it holds three cards, it should have more power as well.
I know a few already:
Micron has an "Expansion chassis and passthrough"
for the A500 and A1000 to accept its Zorro II memory card.
They are provided with the card, I don't know about cost.
ASDG has a 2000-and-1 box, but I don't need that many
slots for that much money, nor the Ibey Empey Cee stuff.
At least not on an A1000. If I want real live expansion,
I'll get a machine built for it. No flames, please.
I may mean an A3000...
I think ASDG may also have a smaller expansion box
similar to Micron's (Perry?)
Pacific Perhiperals has an A500 SubSystem that accepts
two Zorro II cards and a second drive, has power,
passes the bus, and has an optional second floppy.
It even sits under the computer and is only 1.5" tall.
Pacific also makes "Cage II" for "zorro" cards. They
don't say I or II, but looking at the picture it's II.
Passes the bus, power supply included.
The question is:
Does anyone have any experience with these boxes, or any others ?
What others exist ? Do any cards not work in any of them, or only
in specific positions. I volunteer to keep track of all this
information and post it to the net periodically. I believe that
the Zorro II cards should not have to be timed so tight that they
require particular physical bus positions. Any incompatibilities
between cards and boxes is unacceptable. I'll keep track of any
that I hear of, for the benefit of developers and consumers both.
I personally believe Commodore dropped the ball, but we can pick
it up again. After all, we did it with IFF.
Several flames and warnings:
----------------------------
There's only one way to make sure we don't get stuck with incompatible
non-upgradeable hardware addons again: DON'T BUY THEM! Anyone who buys
anything other than a Zorro II SOTS box and Zorro II cards is asking for it,
on the A500 *or* the A1000. Commodore made it possible to "ask for it" by
including SOTS on the A500 and not providing its own Zorro II SOTS, but
*you'll* bear the burden if you don't look ahead.
Right now *most* of the hardware developers are offering three "versions"
of their stuff, one for each machine. All of the A1000 SOTS except the
old ones, and absolutely all of the A500 SOTS, are purely bogus and should
be left on the shelf. Those of you who think "2 meg is all I want" or
"I'll never need to expand this machine" had better think back to their
last computer. If it's true, fine. But you will be embarking on an
unsupported and unsupportable road. Flaky power, odd-shaped cards that
will never work on a future Amiga. Don't complain to Commodore, or the
hardware vendor, or anyone. It's like buying a piece of software that
has "doesn't support IFF" emblazoned on the front of it. `Nuff said.
Also, if you want hardware manufacturers to smarten up, you'll just have
to make it clear that you won't buy anything but Zorro II cards. Otherwise
they'll keep selling SOTS, and Commodore will `feel free' to `improve' the
bus again, since `so few Zorro II cards were sold anyway'. I've heard from
several hardware manufacturers who produce three versions, that "the market
will decide". Well, you're the market, and if you decide wrong, you're
going to be badly burned. I was relatively shocked that the manufacturers
were being this shortsighted, but they are. I would appreciate hearing
whatever justification they can offer for this.
It is the personal responsibility of every A500, A1000, and A2000 user to
ensure that Zorro II doesn't change, and that A500 and A1000 users who are
just starting to expand don't make the "A1000 mistake" and buy custom SOTS.
If you buy this junk to save a couple of bucks when a standard Zorro II
equivalent is available, you burn everyone:
The hardware developer who has to sell and support three versions.
His profit margin, FCC bureacracy, and willingness to support the
Amiga will all suffer.
Other users who will pay more for Zorro II for the above reasons,
and will see hardware manufacturers abandoning the Amiga because
they can't handle supporting three versions.
Everybody, if the Zorro II standard is seen only as an `A2000
standard'. The implications of this have been hashed out.
Not having Zorro II support available on the A1000 caused
a lot of people to pump a lot of money into a dead end.
The issue
---------
This is a matter of discipline, just like IFF. Commodore fucked it up.
But we can all un-fuck it, just by buying the stuff that we want to
ensure is around for a long, long, time: the Zorro II standard.
I had assumed hardware manufacturers would have had this discipline on
their own. They don't. They point fingers at Commodore. This makes
sense only in the case of those who haven't recouped development costs
on A1000 SOTS. It makes no sense in the case of the A500. Some of them
don't even offer Zorro II versions yet. They call them "A2000 versions"
and some of them don't even plan to make them. They'll sell nothing to me.
So far as I can see, Micron and Pacific are the only manufacturers doing this
right. At least, they're the only ones advertising that fact. Kudos to them.
ASDG may be doing it as well, and I'd rather have their 8 meg card,
but they aren't advertising it as ``All Amigas'', nor guaranteeing
that it'll work in all Zorro II boxes, though I assume it will.
That's a mistake.
Repeating myself
----------------
I want to know exactly who is "doing it right" (right == works && Zorro II)
I offer to collect all net.information on A500 and A1000 SOTS boxes.
This will include their (in)compatibility with Zorro II cards (what
cards are known to work/not work in what positions), their cost,
manufacturer (and users' experience with them), power characteristics,
whether or not they pass the bus, whether they have room for another drive,
whether they are both UL/CSA approved (eh?), and general features and
flakiness.
By collecting this information, we can provide a valuable service to
the Amiga community and hardware developers, who otherwise wouldn't
know what does and does not work together. Eventually I would hope
Commodore would `certify' Zorro II SOTS boxes.
To chew on
----------
What would have happened if IFF `hadn't caught on' ?
Flames to me (I'll summarize and post to the net, no :-)),
Craig Hubley, Unicus Corporation, Toronto, Ont.
craig@Unicus.COM (Internet)
{uunet!mnetor, utzoo!utcsri}!unicus!craig (dumb uucp)
mnetor!unicus!craig@uunet.uu.net (dumb arpa)
peter@sugar.UUCP (Peter da Silva) (12/17/87)
In article <1716@unicus.UUCP>, craig@unicus.UUCP writes: > Who makes Zorro II SOTS boxes for the A1000 ? Nobody, that I have been able to find. BUT: > I know a few already: > Micron has an "Expansion chassis and passthrough" > for the A500 and A1000 to accept its Zorro II memory card. > They are provided with the card, I don't know about cost. I'll check with them, AND ASDG. > ASDG has a 2000-and-1 box, but I don't need that many > slots for that much money, nor the Ibey Empey Cee stuff. 2000-and-1 is nice, but it's way more box than I need. For that much I could buy a 2000 on tradein. > I think ASDG may also have a smaller expansion box > similar to Micron's (Perry?) Micron's stuff is usually ASDG stuff, near as I can tell. I know they sell a Z-1 box, but I don't know any Z-2s other than 2000-and-1. > Pacific also makes "Cage II" for "zorro" cards. They > don't say I or II, but looking at the picture it's II. > Passes the bus, power supply included. Last time I checked it was a Z-1 box. You can always call them and ask. -- -- Peter da Silva `-_-' ...!hoptoad!academ!uhnix1!sugar!peter -- Disclaimer: These U aren't mere opinions... these are *values*.
perry@well.UUCP (Perry S. Kivolowitz) (12/24/87)
In article <1716@unicus.UUCP> craig@unicus.UUCP (Craig D. Hubley) writes: >ASDG may be doing it as well, and I'd rather have their 8 meg card, >but they aren't advertising it as ``All Amigas'', nor guaranteeing >that it'll work in all Zorro II boxes, though I assume it will. >That's a mistake. ASDG guarantees that all of its products are completely and totally compliant with every aspect of the Zorro standard except where we state specifically otherwise (the only case of this is the MiniRackC which is a Zorro rack subset. The MRC can be a subset since we actually surpass the standard on our cards). ASDG makes the finest quality expansion products available. Cutting corners is not compatible with the way we do business. Simple, no? As far as the ad goes, I don't like it either. It will be changing. Perry