rminnich@udel.EDU (Ron Minnich) (01/05/88)
The issue of viruses has brought up the whole issue of stolen software. Someone has claimed that you only get the virus if you steal software. I hope that misapprehension has been laid to rest by the many stories of people who have gotten hurt and who have NOT stolen software. I guess i am thick but i still do not see how the virus mongering protects against software theft. Are people shipping these viruses in production software as a way of protecting themselves? If so then the companies involved should be boycotted. If not then what is the link? As a founding member of a nascent Town Watch organization I have a thought or two about software theft on the Amiga. Crime exists where i live because in many cases people refuse to get involved. 'Someone else'- the police, the politicians, other organizations- are expected to solve the problem. Yet people continue to buy hot lawn mowers; they are not willing to contribute time to help fight crime; and so on. I see something similar happening here. "commodore should do something"- but- people know of pirate boards and do not report them. I think if we really care about this machine and want to see it succeed we have to help, and that includes shutting down the pirates any way we can. Commodore can not do it, and neither can the [Insert your favorite organization]. If we want this theft to stop then WE have to do it. Starting now. Or, the Amiga gets hurt. As for the virus-mongers i think the solution is maybe simple. I for one am willing to put up $25 as part of a reward fund. If we find the people doing this then we lock them out of user's groups and other organizations for a period of five years. And we refuse to give them aid and comfort of any form. I would vote for starting with SCA if possible. Generally criminals (and that's what these are- vandals) are willing to rat on each other for a little money. Maybe a reward will bring them out of the woodwork. Sorry if this comes on a little strong. I am quite mad about this whole situation. -- ron (rminnich@udel.edu)
fwp@unccvax.UUCP (Rick Pasotto) (01/05/88)
in article <927@louie.udel.EDU+, rminnich@udel.EDU (Ron Minnich) says:
+
+ 'Someone else'- the police, the politicians, other organizations-
+ are expected to solve the problem. Yet people continue to buy
+ hot lawn mowers; they are not willing to contribute time to
+ help fight crime; and so on. I see something similar happening
+ here. "commodore should do something"- but- people know of
+ pirate boards and do not report them. I think if we really care
+ about this machine and want to see it succeed we have to help, and
+ that includes shutting down the pirates any way we can.
+ Commodore can not do it, and neither can the [Insert your
+ favorite organization]. If we want this theft to
+ stop then WE have to do it. Starting now. Or, the Amiga
+ gets hurt.
+ --
+ ron (rminnich@udel.edu)
It has been suggested that the Amiga might get a bad reputation because
of rampant software piracy. Perhaps we could develop an _excellent_
reputation by being the computer community _most_ active in thwarting,
villifying, and making social outcasts of pirates and USERS of pirated
software. Ron is right, merely saying to a sysop "There is some pirated
software on your board and I don't think that's a good idea." has very
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ?!?!?!?!?!
little if any effect. As George Robbins mentioned, the problem is a
social problem. It will not be solved by passing laws or devising new
copy protection schemes. The ONLY long term solution is to make all
aspects of piracy unthinkable to any self-respecting person. This
cannot be done by 'the other guy'. Only if each of us takes it upon
himself to ostracize anyone who knowingly uses or distributes pirated
software can we ever hope to solve the problem.
Rick Pasotto
mcnc!unccvax!fwphaitex@pnet01.cts.com (Wade Bickel) (01/05/88)
rminnich@udel.EDU (Ron Minnich) writes: >The issue of viruses has brought up the whole issue of stolen software. >Someone has claimed that you only get the virus if you steal software. >I hope that misapprehension has been laid to rest by the many stories >of people who have gotten hurt and who have NOT stolen software. >I guess i am thick but i still do not see how the virus mongering >protects against software theft. Are people shipping these viruses >in production software as a way of protecting themselves? If so then >the companies involved should be boycotted. If not then what As far as I have been able to tell, no body has received commercial software with the virus on it. This may be wrong, but no one has yet claimed to have received such. Since you must place an infected disk in your drive AND boot with it in order to infect your system, I cannot see how SO MANY people got it SO FAST, unless they were stealing software. I think it is fair to say that more than 90% of the infections occured as a result of piracy. If it were'nt for the other 10% or less, I would commend the virus and it's writer. As it is, they deserve curses. As far as punishing virus writers, I agree, with the exception of SCA. My reasons for excludeing them are as follows 1) The letter is an apology, and I for one beleive they did not intend to create such a furor. 2) SCA did send C= info which should help them to deal with the virus. 3) Clearly, had SCA wanted, their virus could have been alot nastier and been made alot more infectious. 4) The virus problem would have cropped up eventually and this virus has put us on our gaurd. As far as how they should be punished, criminal prosecution should be used when possible. Perhaps a fund should be established by us users and the companies who have a stake in this machine, which would be used to find and prosecute these individuals. Software pirates, especially BBSs should also be targets of this fund. Just having to defend themselves from the legal system will be a strong penalty, even if they are not convicted! Thanks, Wade. UUCP: {cbosgd, hplabs!hp-sdd, sdcsvax, nosc}!crash!pnet01!haitex ARPA: crash!pnet01!haitex@nosc.mil INET: haitex@pnet01.CTS.COM
kgschlueter@rose.waterloo.edu (Kevin Schlueter) (01/06/88)
I'm president of the UW Amiga Users Group, and have a lot of contact with people using Amigas for the first time. Many of these people did NOT purchase a second disk drive (being students, they couldn't afford it). Because they hate disk swapping, they often set up PD disks so that they contain a few of the more common commands and are bootable -- hence they get in the HABIT of booting PD disks. Now, if these people were to receive an infected PD disk somehow, they would no doubt spread the virus to most of their Amiga owning friends within a few days -- without any piracy ever having taken place. I understand the frustration (and loss of profits) that piracy causes software developers, but please remember that people are presumed innocent until proven guilty. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Kevin Schlueter (president of UW Amiga Users Group)
jim@coplex.UUCP (Jim Sewell) (01/09/88)
In article <927@louie.udel.EDU>, rminnich@udel.EDU (Ron Minnich) writes: > ... Are people shipping these viruses > in production software as a way of protecting themselves? Uhm, does anyone remember early Model 3's from Tandy? Particularly one version of TRSDOS (I believe it was 6.x) which would keep an internal counter as to the number of times you backed up a disk? Software authors took advantage of this to make sure you didn't make more than 3 copies of their disk and that none of those disks was copyable. Of course this didn't work for long 8-). It is conceivable for companies to threaten harm if you pirate their program, but it is not likely that it is either legal or ethical. I don't think we will ever see this implemented, and hope we never have a need to do so! Viruses are simply the product of modern day arsonists. "Isn't this neat, it can burn down a whole house with just one match!" What scares me is what will come next, when we move out of our current technological plateau and into the next. Is the next verison of a virus going to be "Big Brother"? =============================================================================== Jim Sewell "Make knowledge free!" Disclaimer: "Copper Electronics doesn't even know who I am, much less agree with me! [8-)] "