lphillips@lpami.van-bc.UUCP (Larry Phillips) (12/22/87)
>Promises of an 80286 Janus, rumors of 386 cards (on PC 8 bit bus?), Well, not really, the clone side has 2 ready-to-wear AT style slots, and 2 more that need only connectors to make them 16 bit slot. >As a final item for all of you to think on. Recall the various >attempts to mix various different hardwares and programming >systems in the same box, and their fate. i don't know if you are referring to the 68000/Bridge combination or the 68000/68020 combination, so I'll mention both. I'm not familiar with most of the examples given, but usually, the two hardware/software environments are mutually exclusive, and will not run at the same time. In the case of the 68000/Bridge combination we have a situation where there are two full blown processors that do not share a lot of resources, or at least are not required to share most resources. To me, this means that one can indeed have the best of both worlds, and at the same time, unlike most other attempts to marry vastly different hardware. The 68000/68020 is, (or at least is hinted at being), a mutually exclusive environment, but the redeeming virtue here is that the Amiga's OS is already capable of handling the two different hardware environments. I would imagine there will be enhancements to the OS to make it even more transparent. This is not to ay I disagree with the feeling that perhaps the '020 should go on board, but I do think that the 2000 is a good move, and that the provision for a better chip is icing on the cake, allowing users to choose between cost and performance without closing off any options, while increasing the chances that the 2000 can be made more compatible with future machines. >Can anyone offer a machine/system of this type that has become >even a modest success? The C128. > ... Rostyslaw Jarema Lewyckyj Larry Phillips. -- The transistor is a curiosity, and will never amount to much. -- Mr. Stringer, Basic Electronic Instructor, RCAF, 1962. +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ | // Larry Phillips UUCP: lphillips@lpami.van-bc.UUCP | | \X/ or: {ihnp4!alberta!ubc-vision,uunet}!van-bc!lpami!lphillips | | COMPUSERVE: 76703,4322 | +--------------------------------------------------------------------+
david@ms.uky.edu (David Herron -- Resident E-mail Hack) (12/24/87)
In article <1644@van-bc.UUCP> lphillips@lpami.van-bc.UUCP (Larry Phillips) writes: "> >" is quoted from some previous article ... > >Can anyone offer a machine/system of this type that has become > >even a modest success? > >The C128. I agree with most of what Larry said. The 2000 is an almost unique version of this idea in that you can use both worlds ... it sounds like an interesting combination ... but I'll make my final decision about the bridge card when/if the 286 version comes out. Another version of this idea which worked out is the Definicon series for IBM PC-Clones. Depending on exactly which one you get you get a 68020 or NSC 32xxx board with memory. There's an OS of sorts which runs on the board. I don't really know much about 'em since I've never used one ... but they've been in business for a couple of years so must've established some sort of niche. -- <---- David Herron -- The E-Mail guy <david@ms.uky.edu> <---- or: {rutgers,uunet,cbosgd}!ukma!david, david@UKMA.BITNET <---- <---- Winter health warning: Remember, don't eat the yellow snow!
grr@cbmvax.UUCP (George Robbins) (12/28/87)
In article <1644@van-bc.UUCP> lphillips@lpami.van-bc.UUCP (Larry Phillips) writes: > >As a final item for all of you to think on. Recall the various > >attempts to mix various different hardwares and programming > >systems in the same box, and their fate. > > >Can anyone offer a machine/system of this type that has become > >even a modest success? > > The C128. Well, while the C128 is/was farily successful as a Commodore product, it is not obvious that the availability of the Z80-CP/M subsystem had much impact. The machine also included an 80-column display capability, faster 6502 and a faster disk interface, not to mention being the only compatible upgrade path available to the C64 user. It's pretty definite that the C128 didn't create a major new market for consumer CP/M software. At least in the case of the A2000, the IBM compatibility feature is only a small incremental cost burden to the user who doesn't have any use for it. It also seems that PC compatibility is a more major and universal issue that trailing edge CP/M compatibilty was. -- George Robbins - now working for, uucp: {uunet|ihnp4|rutgers}!cbmvax!grr but no way officially representing arpa: cbmvax!grr@uunet.uu.net Commodore, Engineering Department fone: 215-431-9255 (only by moonlite)
ssd@sugar.UUCP (Scott Denham) (01/03/88)
> > >Can anyone offer a machine/system of this type that has become > > >even a modest success? > > > > The C128. > > Well, while the C128 is/was farily successful as a Commodore product, it > is not obvious that the availability of the Z80-CP/M subsystem had much > impact. The machine also included an 80-column display capability, faster (Further description of C-128's attributes deleted) I think thats a very fair statement, George. I know 8 or 10 C-128 owners; NONE of them use the CPM mode to any degree and most have never even tried it. Like the PC bus in the 2000, I think it really just 'icing' - both would be good machines without the feature, but it's a nice enough feature to a small subset of the people who use the machine to make it worth putting in to distinguish one's self from the competition if it can be done at a reasonable price. I look at the PC bus in my 2000 as sort of an 'if all else fails' sort of a solution - if through some incredible abuse the Amiga software market should dry up, the PC bus is there as a saftey net (albeit a rather hard and unyeilding one!!)
firebug@cup.portal.com (01/09/88)
In article <1344@sugar.UUCP> ssd@sugar.UUCP (Scott Denham) writes: >> Well, while the C128 is/was farily successful as a Commodore product, it >> is not obvious that the availability of the Z80-CP/M subsystem had much >> impact. The machine also included an 80-column display capability, faster > (Further description of C-128's attributes deleted) > > I think thats a very fair statement, George. I know 8 or 10 C-128 >owners; NONE of them use the CPM mode to any degree and most have never >even tried it. Like the PC bus in the 2000, I think it really just 'icing' >- both would be good machines without the feature, but it's a nice enough >feature to a small subset of the people who use the machine to make it >worth putting in to distinguish one's self from the competition if it can >be done at a reasonable price. I can't help but agree too...When I had my C-128, I never seemed to get around to using the CP/M side, except for trying out a bit of old CP/M software I had laying around from a previous computer. But it's a nice little addition for those that like that sort of thing...I'm surprised Jerry Pournelle didn't jump for it. :-) However, I think it would have been much better if CBM had dropped an 8088 into the thing, rather than a Z-80. Just think, with an 8088 and a little added circuitry to make the video look like the CGA, you would have had the ability to run a fair amount of the IBM-PC software around (I imagine 80-90 percent compatibility would have been sufficient). And since the 8088 is an 8-bit chip (pin-wise, that is), I can't imagine that it would be much more difficult to interface, or cost much more to add, than the Z-80 is. And there is a hell of a lot more PD software out there for the IBM-PC than there is for CP/M machines. How about it, Commodore...a C-128/PC ? +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Lance T Franklin ltf@killer | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | | | something clever. | | | +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
firebug@cup.portal.com (01/09/88)
ooops last wuz supposed to include this from me.... how about an add-on chip??? nowing VERY little about the computer circuitry couldnt they just program a chip to handle whats necessary? since I was led to believe the *old* 1571 could read ms/dos format disks moi
elg@killer.UUCP (Eric Green) (01/09/88)
in article <2679@killer.UUCP>, ltf@killer.UUCP (Lance Franklin) says: > Xref: killer comp.sys.amiga:13208 comp.sys.cbm:1096 > However, I think it would have been much better if CBM had dropped an 8088 > into the thing, rather than a Z-80. You have GOT to be kidding. Have you ever seen the PINOUTS of an 8088? The address and data busses are multiplexed on top of one another... it would have raised the chip count of the machine beyond its current ridiculous number to do all of the clock generation, address latching, etc. required by an 8088. -- Eric Lee Green elg@usl.CSNET Asimov Cocktail,n., A verbal bomb {cbosgd,ihnp4}!killer!elg detonated by the mention of any Snail Mail P.O. Box 92191 subject, resulting in an explosion Lafayette, LA 70509 of at least 5,000 words.