haitex@pnet01.cts.com (Wade Bickel) (01/02/88)
rhuffman@aa.ecn.purdue.edu (Rodney L Huffman) writes: > 1/88 (projected) Reagan lifts all sanctions, chip prices go > back to near-reasonable levels, and we can feed those > hungry 8M boards > >We can only hope. ;-) > >Happy New Year. Is this a good thing? If the Japanese are successful in driving our chip industry under because of the concentration of capital that their society allows, we will all be in trouble! Remember that in Japan there are individuals who control much more capital than there (oops, their) counterparts here. They operate on a longer range plan than we. Surely there are any number of feasable solutions to unfair trade practices if one studies the issues and acts upon them as a whole, rather than using the symptom-by-symptom approach our government seems incapable of surpassing. Thanks, Wade. UUCP: {cbosgd, hplabs!hp-sdd, sdcsvax, nosc}!crash!pnet01!haitex ARPA: crash!pnet01!haitex@nosc.mil INET: haitex@pnet01.CTS.COM
rwa@auvax.UUCP (Ross Alexander) (01/03/88)
In article <2244@crash.cts.com>, haitex@pnet01.cts.com (Wade Bickel) writes: > Is this a good thing? If the Japanese are successful in driving > our chip industry under because of the concentration of capital that > their society allows, we will all be in trouble! Remember that in > Japan there are individuals who control much more capital than there > (oops, their) counterparts here. They operate on a longer range plan > than we. Without supporting evidence, the preceeding paragraph must be considered mere hand-waving. Last time I looked, most of the billionaires lived in America or some Arabian state. Ross Alexander, Athabasca University. Alberta alberta!auvax!rwa
ewhac@well.UUCP (Leo 'Bols Ewhac' Schwab) (01/04/88)
In article <2244@crash.cts.com> haitex@pnet01.cts.com (Wade Bickel) writes: > Is this a good thing? If the Japanese are successful in driving > our chip industry under because of the concentration of capital that > their society allows, we will all be in trouble! Remember that in > Japan there are individuals who control much more capital than there > (oops, their) counterparts here. They operate on a longer range plan > than we. > If American business has this much trouble staying competitive, then American business needs to seriously reexamine itself. The reason the Japanese do so well over here is because, domestically, they have the toughest customers in the world. The Japanese are the hardest people to please anywhere, and naturally, Japanese manufacturers have a lot of experience with them. So when a Japanese product is successful at home, the North American market is a walkover. The above insight is brought to you courtesy of Paul Hawken, who also has interesting insights on advertising (hint, hint).... _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ Leo L. Schwab -- The Guy in The Cape ihnp4!ptsfa -\ \_ -_ Recumbent Bikes: dual ---> !{well,unicom}!ewhac O----^o The Only Way To Fly. hplabs / (pronounced "AE-wack") "Work FOR? I don't work FOR anybody! I'm just having fun." -- The Doctor
jojo@astroatc.UUCP (Jon Wesener) (01/05/88)
>In article <2244@crash.cts.com> haitex@pnet01.cts.com (Wade Bickel) writes: >> Is this a good thing? If the Japanese are successful in driving >> our chip industry under because of the concentration of capital that >> their society allows, we will all be in trouble! Don't forget that Japan also doesn't have to spend a lot of money on their military. We pump billions into SDI R&D and the military which will have little to no results usable by the private sector. An issue of PC-World around October has an excellent editorial on why the US is losing ground in semi-conductor technology to the Japanese for these very reasons... --j -- jon wesener ... {seismo | harvard | ihnp4} ! {uwvax | cs.wisc.edu} ! astroatc!jojo hating tomorrow's advertising, today.
sdl@linus (01/05/88)
In article <2244@crash.cts.com> haitex@pnet01.cts.com (Wade Bickel) writes: > rhuffman@aa.ecn.purdue.edu (Rodney L Huffman) writes: > > 1/88 (projected) Reagan lifts all sanctions, chip prices go > > back to near-reasonable levels, and we can feed those > > hungry 8M boards > > > Is this a good thing? If the Japanese are successful in driving > our chip industry under because of the concentration of capital that > their society allows, we will all be in trouble! Remember that in > Japan there are individuals who control much more capital than there > (oops, their) counterparts here. They operate on a longer range plan > than we. Please, let's not start a whole discussion in comp.sys.amiga about world trade and economics. That's liable to prove even more irrelevant than the discussion about the worth of multitasking we've been suffering thru lately. I subscribe to comp.sys.amiga to learn about & discuss the capabilities and functions of the *amiga*, not to read endless discussions about these side issues. Steven Litvintchouk MITRE Corporation Burlington Road Bedford, MA 01730 Fone: (617)271-7753 ARPA: sdl@mitre-bedford.arpa UUCP: ...{cbosgd,decvax,genrad,ll-xn,mit-eddie,philabs,utzoo}!linus!sdl "Those who will be able to conquer software will be able to conquer the world." -- Tadahiro Sekimoto, president, NEC Corp.
sdl@linus.UUCP (Steven D. Litvintchouk) (01/05/88)
Posting-Front-End: GNU Emacs 18.47.1 of Sun Aug 2 1987 on linus (berkeley-unix) In article <2244@crash.cts.com> haitex@pnet01.cts.com (Wade Bickel) writes: > rhuffman@aa.ecn.purdue.edu (Rodney L Huffman) writes: > > 1/88 (projected) Reagan lifts all sanctions, chip prices go > > back to near-reasonable levels, and we can feed those > > hungry 8M boards > > > Is this a good thing? If the Japanese are successful in driving > our chip industry under because of the concentration of capital that > their society allows, we will all be in trouble! Remember that in > Japan there are individuals who control much more capital than there > (oops, their) counterparts here. They operate on a longer range plan > than we. Please, let's not start a whole discussion in comp.sys.amiga about world trade and economics. That's liable to prove even more irrelevant than the discussion about the worth of multitasking we've been suffering thru lately. I subscribe to comp.sys.amiga to learn about & discuss the capabilities and functions of the *amiga*, not to read endless discussions about these side issues. Steven Litvintchouk MITRE Corporation Burlington Road Bedford, MA 01730 Fone: (617)271-7753 ARPA: sdl@mitre-bedford.arpa UUCP: ...{cbosgd,decvax,genrad,ll-xn,mit-eddie,philabs,utzoo}!linus!sdl "Those who will be able to conquer software will be able to conquer the world." -- Tadahiro Sekimoto, president, NEC Corp.
haitex@pnet01.cts.com (Wade Bickel) (01/05/88)
ewhac@well.UUCP (Leo 'Bols Ewhac' Schwab) writes: > If American business has this much trouble staying competitive, then >American business needs to seriously reexamine itself. > > The reason the Japanese do so well over here is because, >domestically, they have the toughest customers in the world. The Japanese >are the hardest people to please anywhere, and naturally, Japanese >manufacturers have a lot of experience with them. So when a Japanese >product is successful at home, the North American market is a walkover. > > The above insight is brought to you courtesy of Paul Hawken, who >also has interesting insights on advertising (hint, hint).... I've studied Japanese Econonics and Politics in detail while in College. I had a profesor, Dr. Rosen, for Japanese Politics who had spent a few years in Japan studying Japan, and 7 years in Japan studying China. He spoke Japanese fluently. I refer you to a book called "Political Change in Japan" by Taketsugu Tsurutani, and another called "British Factory, Japanese Factory" (can't remember the author's name). If you'd like I can list perhaps a dozen more reference with specific relevent chapters noted (just e-mail me). From reading these some of the Japanese outlook become more apparent. In America buisnesses are useually run much more independently of government direction than their Japanese counterparts. Study of the "Income Doubling Plans" incorporated several times since WWII may change your mind a bit, as you will see the J. Gov. orchestrated a focused industrial effort in order to gain a competative position. The 60's are the most interesting period from an Economics point of view. Japanese industrial efforts are still directed by the gov., but of course this has become less focused as their market share has grown. I am not trying to disparage the Japanese, they are just playing the capitalist game. Good for them! However we must realize that it is game, in some ways much like chess. As we all know the person who plays the most turns ahead in chess usually wins. We must be very careful. So what is my point? Simply that the Japanese would not engage in chip dumping if it were not in their own intrest to do so. Clearly they wish to capture larger shares of the chip market over time. And this is clearly NOT in our best interest. "Adam Smith" capitalism did not account for technological innovation or knowedge gaps. If we are not carefull, we'll still be making chips measured in megabites when the Japanese are making gigabyte chips! (I'm leaving out "why the Japanese would want to dump chips" because I figure the readers of this board already know them.) Thanks, Wade. UUCP: {cbosgd, hplabs!hp-sdd, sdcsvax, nosc}!crash!pnet01!haitex ARPA: crash!pnet01!haitex@nosc.mil INET: haitex@pnet01.CTS.COM
cmcmanis%pepper@Sun.COM (Chuck McManis) (01/06/88)
Quoting someone else : >> Is this a good thing? If the Japanese are successful in driving >> our chip industry under because of the concentration of capital that >> their society allows, we will all be in trouble! Then in article <683@astroatc.UUCP> (Jon Wesener) writes: |>Don't forget that Japan also doesn't have to spend a lot of money on their |>military. We pump billions into SDI R&D and the military which will have |>little to no results usable by the private sector. An issue of PC-World |>around October has an excellent editorial on why the US is losing ground |>in semi-conductor technology to the Japanese for these very reasons... Well, my feeling is that if you haven't worked for a semiconductor manufacturer you can't really understand the issues that led up to the sanctions or the benefits/costs that they incurred. I worked for Intel at the time most of this stuff was going down, and the big problem was EPROMs not DRAMs, but that's a different story. I do know that Intel had a working CMOS 1 Mbit DRAM before most, if not all, of the Japanese did, and didn't market it simply because they knew the japanese would underprice them before they had make back their investment. They solved their problem fairly ingeniously but that is probably still covered under something I signed when I left. Anyway... The Jan 29th Wall Street Journal shows Japan has increased it's support of our military to 30 billion a year, and is considering upping the ante further. Which is good and bad, because when you pay for something you start thinking you own it, and that is something we definitely don't want. Japan could *easily* be a superpower in the world today and if they decided they no longer wanted to support the American consumer an embargo from them would hit a whole hell of a lot harder than one from the arabs did. Anyway, we are off the subject. That's why this and it's follow ups are being sent to ca.politics. --Chuck McManis uucp: {anywhere}!sun!cmcmanis BIX: cmcmanis ARPAnet: cmcmanis@sun.com These opinions are my own and no one elses, but you knew that didn't you.
haitex@pnet01.cts.com (Wade Bickel) (01/06/88)
Today I was to by our hardware engineer that 4 megabit chips
have been released in Japan (Mitsubushi, Hitachi, etc...).
Wade.
UUCP: {cbosgd, hplabs!hp-sdd, sdcsvax, nosc}!crash!pnet01!haitex
ARPA: crash!pnet01!haitex@nosc.mil
INET: haitex@pnet01.CTS.COMhaitex@pnet01.cts.com (Wade Bickel) (01/06/88)
jojo@astroatc.UUCP (Jon Wesener) writes: >Don't forget that Japan also doesn't have to spend a lot of money on their >military. We pump billions into SDI R&D and the military which will have >little to no results usable by the private sector. An issue of PC-World >around October has an excellent editorial on why the US is losing ground For a while I subscribed to this philosophy. However, on careful analysis of the U.S. Consumer Savings ratios, Corporatate investment, and Government non-military investment and spending, etc., and how each of these fuels the economic cycle, I have come to the conclusion that without this spending our economy would be in trouble. Sure, the Japanese are able to funtion without a large military. They utilize ours'! When our gov. pays people to do research or be a Marine, or whatever, that money is then spent in the civilian enconomy. Part of this is spent to buy Japanese goods. It comes down to this, we in the U.S. percieve National Defence as a need. Therefore we are willing to make sacrifices (ie: taxes) to satisfy this need. If you took away government spending on the military, investment in technology would drop severly. And unemployment would increase because not only would the "Marines" be out of work but also many people who depend on spending by "Marines" (used a generic military employee in this case). Sure, the Government could try to substitute other endevours for mililtary spending, such as Fusion Research or Space Exploration, but these are wants rather than needs, so the populous in general probably would not support these to the degree they respond to a perceived threat. Look at Macro-Economic models of the U.S. economy and the World economy, and the "multiplier" effect that occures for dollars infused into the economy. I think you will see that the only real problem is that the military is very inefficeint in yeilding anything (excluding "defence", ie: technology). Even if this money were invested in a way that produced something it is not clear that there would be enough buying power available to utilize the product. Directly or indirectly, U.S. Military spending sustains perhaps 40% of the U.S. economy (an educated guess). Reducing demand by this amount would be a disaster. My point is simply that before you can take the "super dove" point of view on world/national economics the total picture must be considered. "Star Wars" has nothing to do with protecting us. Morton Thiacol (sp??) can't even build a solid rocket booster, and were supposed to believe they (the same industry) are going to build a "Star Wars" that works? If you think about it, it is obvious that the Soviets will always have enough weapons which can get through "Star-Wars" that we will be vulnerable. The point behind Star Wars is to fuel and focus a weakening economy. And to make a certain segment of the population wealthy. ---------- My original point was simply this; We as a nation cannot afford to allow the Japanese or any body else to gain a significant lead in digital technology. One possible way that a country, in this case Japan, can seek to gain a lead is to dominate the market by selling at a loss. In this way their internal chip industry is producing as if it faced a much bigger demand than really exists. We cannot allow Japanese companies, and especially the Japanese Government, to take unfair advantage of the U.S. simply because our buisnesses can only look a few years ahead (I'd say one year). This is what chip dumping is all about. And if we allow it, we will not be able to afford the state-of-the-art. I find myself in an interesting position with regaurd to all this, as I'm sure do many of you, in that it is in MY interest to see chip prices fall as low as possible. Basically chip dumping translates into two immeadiate benefits to the U.S.; lower consumer prices, and higher buisness margins. It also translates into a long range liability; UNEMPLOYMENT! This has already happened to the U.S. in a number of industries. So I offer the following proposed solution. Why not estimate the degree of dumping and tax the relevent imports 1/2 the estimate? Then use the tax money to strengthen our leading-edge chip research. This is all I am concerned with. That we not fall behind in the ability to make state- of-the-art components. Thanks, Wade. [PS: Our hardware engineer (a native Japanese) told me that 4 megabit DRAMs were released to Japanese developers yesterday.] UUCP: {cbosgd, hplabs!hp-sdd, sdcsvax, nosc}!crash!pnet01!haitex ARPA: crash!pnet01!haitex@nosc.mil INET: haitex@pnet01.CTS.COM
farren@gethen.UUCP (Michael J. Farren) (01/07/88)
In article <2291@crash.cts.com> haitex@pnet01.cts.com (Wade Bickel) writes: > > My original point was simply this; We as a nation cannot afford >to allow the Japanese or any body else to gain a significant lead in >digital technology. Disregarding any arguments about the truth of this assumption (I don't think it's true, by the way), what damn difference does it make? If we assume that each nation is an independent entity, which has to defend itself against any and all other states because its life depends on it, then your viewpoint makes sense. In the world as it really exists today, though, that viewpoint is dangerously limited. We live in an environment where every nation's economic health is dependent, to some extent, on every other nation's economic health. Europe has long realized this (thus the EEC), while we in the U.S. are still clinging to the idea that our own interests are the only ones which are important, and this is hurting us more than it is helping. Frankly, if the Japanese can make microelectronics more efficiently, more power to them. Not only does this mean that we all can benefit from their expertise, but it also means that we won't be stuck in the situation that we have found ourselves in more and more lately - where we insist on protecting a domestic industry that isn't willing to take the measures necessary to compete in the real world. We've seen this happen with the steel and textile industries already; the only way we'll be able to avoid the same sort of fate for the micro- electronics industry is to face the fact that we're being beaten, and take appropriate measures, either to regain the lead we've lost or to simply accept the situation as it stands. Hiding our heads, and saying that it isn't necessary to acknowledge other's efforts, gains us nothing except a false sense of superiority. When we can demonstrate a real superiority, the problem won't be a problem any more. This has gotten quite far from Amiga issues - I'm directing followups to talk.politics, where it probably belongs. Unfortunately, I don't get talk.politics, but that's life. If I believed in the sorts of things that the trade protectionists believe in, I'd FORCE everyone to cross-post to comp.sys.amiga, and damn the consequences :-) -- Michael J. Farren | "INVESTIGATE your point of view, don't just {ucbvax, uunet, hoptoad}! | dogmatize it! Reflect on it and re-evaluate unisoft!gethen!farren | it. You may want to change your mind someday." gethen!farren@lll-winken.llnl.gov ----- Tom Reingold, from alt.flame
haitex@pnet01.cts.com (Wade Bickel) (01/10/88)
farren@gethen.UUCP (Michael J. Farren) writes: >Disregarding any arguments about the truth of this assumption (I don't >think it's true, by the way), what damn difference does it make? If >we assume that each nation is an independent entity, which has to >defend itself against any and all other states because its life depends >on it, then your viewpoint makes sense. In the world as it really >exists today, though, that viewpoint is dangerously limited. We live >in an environment where every nation's economic health is dependent, >to some extent, on every other nation's economic health. Europe has >long realized this (thus the EEC), while we in the U.S. are still >clinging to the idea that our own interests are the only ones which >are important, and this is hurting us more than it is helping. Actually, I basically agree with you. The problem is that while the world economy functions most efficeintly when run as you describe, this assumes that none of the participating nations will cheat. However the benfits to a nation for cheating are real. If a nation is able to gain dominance by undercutting other nations, even taking a short term loss, there are real internal gains to be made. Monopolies and Oligarchies are bad for economic growth. In the past this was not a big problem because foriegn economies were so much weaker than that of the U.S., which cannot really be said any more. We break up or regulate internal monoplies. Shouldn't we be concerned about the formation of external monopolies? After all, it may take more than litigation to protect ourselves from these! As far as recognizing the inter-dependance of world markets, the lack of U.S. understanding of the importance of such, and the more enlightened European approach, I suggest you read about the "Marshall Plan". The U.S. is the standard bearer of this line of thought. It is always in the interest of the dominant econmic power to ecourage free and un-restricted trade. >Frankly, if the Japanese can make microelectronics more efficiently, >more power to them. Not only does this mean that we all can benefit >from their expertise, but it also means that we won't be stuck in >the situation that we have found ourselves in more and more lately - >where we insist on protecting a domestic industry that isn't willing >to take the measures necessary to compete in the real world. We've >seen this happen with the steel and textile industries already; the >only way we'll be able to avoid the same sort of fate for the micro- >electronics industry is to face the fact that we're being beaten, >and take appropriate measures, either to regain the lead we've lost >or to simply accept the situation as it stands. Hiding our heads, >and saying that it isn't necessary to acknowledge other's efforts, >gains us nothing except a false sense of superiority. When we can >demonstrate a real superiority, the problem won't be a problem any >more. If they can do it more efficeintly, so be it. But to sit back and watch them drive us out of the industry because our internal policy denies U.S. companies the right to excercise the same long-run strategies would be foolish. Thanks, Wade. UUCP: {cbosgd, hplabs!hp-sdd, sdcsvax, nosc}!crash!pnet01!haitex ARPA: crash!pnet01!haitex@nosc.mil INET: haitex@pnet01.CTS.COM
news@udenva.cair.du.edu (netnews) (01/11/88)
Pardon me for interjecting this with regards to the Japan vs. U.S. semiconductor/competitiveness/greatness discussion (which is in the wrong section anyway) The UNITED STATES is the GREATEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD Do you dare to argue with me ? semiconductors: OK, we may have lost the 1 meg market, but IBM has had 4 meg DRAMS for some time now. The Europeans are also working on 4 meg DRAMS (mid 88, early 89). Japan may have enjoyed a small market share advantage, but America, particularly TI is fighting back. Additionally, Japan is way behind us on processors (no 80386s or 68030s or 78000s) and companies liek Motorola and Intel are keeping the U.S. competitive. competitiveness:The United States is increasingly competitive in the world market for industrial goods. Our service industries are are unmatched world wide (do you see any competition for McDonalds ?) American financial institutions are among the largest in the world. Also, the much admired and booming Japanese stock market is NOT a reflection of their great power in the world is nothing more than a FRAUD. Japanese law virtually price fixes stock shares. (Would buy NTT stock with a 1:200 p:e ratio ? Do you have THAT much confidence ? ) greatness: It is domestically and internationally UNTENABLE, UNTHINKABLE AND OUTRAGEOUS that Japan or W. Germany could EVER be a superpower. There are only TWO countries in the Western world that are acceptable as the protectors or Freedom. They are the United States and Great Britain. The U.S. does the vast amount of that job, and what could be greater than protecting the freedom on the WORLD. (GB does a great job considering their relevant size, but nowhere near waht the U.S. does) Well, I apoligise for my outburst in favor of my country. I felt it was neccesary! -- =============================================================================== || Paul Brody // The above is in no way meant to imply the || || pbrody@udenva \\// opinions of the University of Denver || ===============================================================================
fiddler%concertina@Sun.COM (Steve Hix) (01/12/88)
In article <9679@udenva.cair.du.edu>, news@udenva.cair.du.edu (netnews) writes: > > The UNITED STATES is the GREATEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD > Do you dare to argue with me ? Is this a trick question? > semiconductors: OK, we may have lost the 1 meg market, but IBM has had > 4 meg DRAMS for some time now. Notice how much good this has done for anyone other than IBM... > competitiveness:The United States is increasingly competitive in the world > market for industrial goods. Our service industries are > are unmatched world wide (do you see any competition for > McDonalds ?) Is this another trick question? Well-known dietary preferences of programmers, etc. notwithstanding, if I couldn't find a better place to eat, I'd just go home and see what I could do with refrigerator review... > American financial institutions are among > the largest in the world. The dinosaurs were pretty big, too. Some of them...the typical dinosaur was apparently about the size of a chicken. Anyway, this is unfair to dinosaurs: they were pretty well suited for their neighborhood...until things changed and property values plummeted. Size of a corporation doesn't always map to efficiency or "goodness". See At&T... > Also, the much admired and booming > Japanese stock market is NOT a reflection of their great > power in the world is nothing more than a FRAUD. Japanese > law virtually price fixes stock shares. (Would buy NTT > stock with a 1:200 p:e ratio ? Do you have THAT much > confidence ? ) Does it work? > greatness: It is domestically and internationally UNTENABLE, UNTHINKABLE > AND OUTRAGEOUS that Japan or W. Germany could EVER be a > superpower. Why? Won't we let them play? (Better dust off your recent history books...what?...oh...well, go down to the local public library [unless, of course, you happen to live in Redding, CA. No :-) ] and read about the first half of the current century. Try the kids' section if you need some practice at first.) My kids would be glad to show you around. (Some days I think I should buy stock in the local public library. Half :-) ) > There are only TWO countries in the Western > world that are acceptable as the protectors or Freedom. > They are the United States and Great Britain. I hope that view isn't really widespread. There are lots of good things about the U.S. and GB...to mention nothing of Canada, Australia, NZ, Brazil, Holland, Ireland, France, ... And more than enough negatives for any and all of the above. > Well, I apoligise for my outburst in favor of my country. I felt it was > neccesary! (That's apologise...) An attitude like this, taken to extremes, could mean things like no sushi or curry available on the open market. To say nothing about disappointment when your favorite nation gets blind- sided by a foreign competitor. It would be a lot better to see what Japan or Germany or Mauritania are doing *right*, and IMPROVE ON THAT, rather than cry that they aren't playing fair as they pull away in the distance. Find a biographical sketch of a Frenchman named Chauvin and see if it ever did him any good. mumble...sorry about this. Back to computers... seh
NETOPRHM@NCSUVM.BITNET (Hal Meeks) (01/12/88)
I agree with your statement early in this: This _is_ the wrong place
to discuss this. I could argue on a few of your assertions; but so can
many, many others. No more, please.
--hal
farren@gethen.UUCP (Michael J. Farren) (01/12/88)
First off, I've redirected followups to talk.politics. Please don't post your replies to comp.sys.amiga, this doesn't belong here any more! In article <9679@udenva.cair.du.edu> news@udenva.cair.du.edu (netnews) writes: >The UNITED STATES is the GREATEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD > >Do you dare to argue with me ? Sure do. We haven't been THE greatest country in any area that I can think of for years. We share the honor in some areas, but in others are far, far behind. >semiconductors: OK, we may have lost the 1 meg market, but IBM has had > 4 meg DRAMS for some time now. Go out and buy an IBM memory part. Go ahead, I'll wait. >Japan may have enjoyed a small market share advantage, Huh? I may be misremembering, but I thought the Japanese share of the 256K RAM market was more like 75%. This is NOT a "small market share advantage", it's an overwhelming one. >but America, particularly TI is fighting back. Additionally, Japan is >way behind us on processors (no 80386s or 68030s or 78000s) >and companies liek Motorola and Intel are keeping the U.S.competitive. How about the V70, which by all accounts is a pretty nice chip? I agree on one point - right now the U.S. enjoys a bit of an advantage in the area of innovation. I see little reason to think that this will necessarily continue, and, in fact, unless we start to move quickly, we may well find our lead gone in the next 10 years. Government support of innovative projects in Japan will have results, and if we haven't made some concerted efforts ourselves, there's a good chance we'll be left behind. >competitiveness:The United States is increasingly competitive in the world > market for industrial goods. Hardly. We enjoy a priveleged position, in that American industrial goods have long been the standard for the world. This is changing, rapidly. In almost every major market area, America's supremacy is being challenged. We may not yet have lost the race, but they're catching up fast, and in some areas, like automobiles and consumer electronics, have left us in the dust. >(do you see any competition for McDonalds ?) No, I must admit that there is no competition in the area of mass-produced second-rate food. >American financial institutions are among the largest in the world. As I would expect in a society where money is the only metric of success. This is also not something which is immune to change, and if the third world starts to default on loans en masse, U.S. financial institutions might not be quite as superior in the future (a scenario which is, unfortunately, not a fantasy). At least, those that survive won't be. >greatness: It is domestically and internationally UNTENABLE, UNTHINKABLE > AND OUTRAGEOUS that Japan or W. Germany could EVER be a > superpower. You had better start thinking, rather than emoting. Japan, if not already superior to the U.S. in world economic power, is not at all far behind, and is certainly more of a superpower than Britain is. In fact, many could make a good argument showing Japan as the pre-eminent factor in the world economy, supplanting the U.S. In any event, we are rapidly entering a world in which the concept 'superpower', with its implied assumption of a sole reservoir of economic and political power residing in one nation, is meaningless. The longer it takes for this country to realize that we can no longer consider ourselves as the reigning power in the world, in any sense save (perhaps) militarily, the longer it will take us to decide to take those measures which will ensure our ability to compete in a world where this is true. Chauvinistic statements like "This country is the greatest in the world" make no more sense in the real world of today than do the cries of "We're The Greatest" do from 49er's fans. Much as it may be a pain in the pride to admit it, in both cases "We're one of the greatest" makes a lot more sense today. >Well, I apoligise for my outburst in favor of my country. I felt it was >neccesary! No apologies necessary, really. I certainly bow to noone in my faith in this country and its people. Just because we aren't the greatest in every area across the board doesn't mean the country doesn't have every right to be proud of what we have accomplished, are accomplishing now, and will accomplish in the future. We've done great things. We will, most likely, continue to do great things, and this is something to be proud of, indeed. It's important, though, to realize that we aren't the only place in the world where great things are being done, and that those accomplishments also deserve recognition and applause. -- Michael J. Farren | "INVESTIGATE your point of view, don't just {ucbvax, uunet, hoptoad}! | dogmatize it! Reflect on it and re-evaluate unisoft!gethen!farren | it. You may want to change your mind someday." gethen!farren@lll-winken.llnl.gov ----- Tom Reingold, from alt.flame