phil@titan.rice.edu (William LeFebvre) (01/08/88)
No, not me........but a friend of mine. He purchased a 2000 with an extra 3.25" drive, a 5" drive, and a bridge card thru the mail-order firm "Sprite Technology". The extra parts did not come installed, but he had planned on that. When he went to install the drives, the installation instructions sent with the drive said to remove a connector from the motherboard. He did that, but one of the middle pins on the board came off with the connector. "No problem," he says, "it's only a day old and still on warranty." He did what the warranty said; he took his machine to a local dealer. They looked at it and said "it's obviously defective, but you opened the case and therefore violated the warranty. Tough luck." I told him "don't listen to them, get the facts straight from Commodore." So he called customer service and supposedly talked to the person in charge of customer service (I don't have the person's name handy). This representative of Commodore was very rude to my friend and basically said "you obviously broke it yourself." I ask you, how can someone break off a MIDDLE pin by simply removing the connector? In other words, the pin that broke was not on the end of the connector, and none of the other pins were even bent. You can't do that by merely pulling the connector off incorrectly. The rep's attitude was basically "we don't care about you," but he did give him the name of another local company that would do the repair (not under warranty, of course). My friend contacted this firm, and they said "we don't work on that particular machine." So much for Commodore's advice. My friend has given up on Commodore and is going to send the machine back to Sprite. Meanwhile, Sprite doesn't answer their phone (but that's a different story). Why doesn't Commodore stand behind its product? They can't afford to do this to their customers. Is it really a violation of warranty to simply open the case? I don't recall the warranty saying anything about that. When Commodore was faced with an obviously defective unit, they tried to weasel out of their responsibility by accusing the owner of breaking it himself. I know this guy---he's not clumsy, he's very careful and knows what he's doing. I am very disappointed in this revelation, it has greatly decreased my confidence in Commodore. I love my machine too much to give it up, I just hope I never get stuck under Commodore's heavy thumb. Commodore had better wake up and wake up soon to the fact that most people will not buy a product that has no support from its manufacturer. IBM learned this a long time ago. You can say whatever you want about the inferiority of its products, but IBM stands behind them. My friend is going to visit his IBM dealer. And a mutual friend of ours has been totally turned off of Commodore and its Amigas (she was seriously considering buying one). So, Commodore loses two customers. Sad...... William LeFebvre Department of Computer Science Rice University <phil@Rice.edu>
papa@pollux.usc.edu (Marco Papa) (01/09/88)
In article <517@ra.rice.edu> phil@rice.edu (William LeFebvre) writes: |>No, not me........but a friend of mine. |>He purchased a 2000 with an extra 3.25" drive, a 5" drive, and a bridge |>card thru the mail-order firm "Sprite Technology". The extra parts did |>not come installed, but he had planned on that. When he went to install |>the drives, the installation instructions sent with the drive said to |>remove a connector from the motherboard. He did that, but one of the |>middle pins on the board came off with the connector. "No problem," he |>says, "it's only a day old and still on warranty." |>He did what the warranty said; he took his machine to a local dealer. This is what he SHOULD have done in the first place, BEFORE opening it up. |>They looked at it and said "it's obviously defective, but you opened the |>case and therefore violated the warranty. Tough luck." Sorry, but opening the case and doing what your friend did is EXACTLY what will VOID a warranty, whether Commodore, IBM, Apple or whatever. He should have read the warranty. That kind of work is supposed to be done at an authorized service center or Commodore dealer. >My friend has given up on Commodore and is going to send the machine back >to Sprite. Meanwhile, Sprite doesn't answer their phone (but that's a >different story). They should have installed the boards in the first place. Gripe with them, not Commodore. >Why doesn't Commodore stand behind its product? They can't afford to do >this to their customers. Is it really a violation of warranty to simply >open the case? I don't recall the warranty saying anything about that. Yes, it is. >When Commodore was faced with an obviously defective unit, they tried to >weasel out of their responsibility by accusing the owner of breaking it >himself. From your message it is clear that your friend indeed DID break it himself. > >My friend is going to visit his IBM dealer. And a mutual friend of ours >has been totally turned off of Commodore and its Amigas (she was seriously >considering buying one). So, Commodore loses two customers. Note that the IBM warrantly is ALSO voided by the type of action that your friend executed. Many IBM dealers won't touch a machine that has been fooled with by a customer. In fact, many IBM dealers will require that you take out all foreign (non-IBM) boards when you carry a machine to the daler for repair. -- Marco
jesup@pawl21.pawl.rpi.edu (Randell E. Jesup) (01/09/88)
In article <517@ra.rice.edu> phil@rice.edu (William LeFebvre) writes: >He purchased a 2000 with an extra 3.25" drive, a 5" drive, and a bridge >card thru the mail-order firm "Sprite Technology". The extra parts did >not come installed, but he had planned on that. When he went to install >the drives, the installation instructions sent with the drive said to >remove a connector from the motherboard. He did that, but one of the >middle pins on the board came off with the connector. "No problem," he >says, "it's only a day old and still on warranty." > >He did what the warranty said; he took his machine to a local dealer. >They looked at it and said "it's obviously defective, but you opened the >case and therefore violated the warranty. Tough luck." I told him "don't >listen to them, get the facts straight from Commodore." So he called >customer service and supposedly talked to the person in charge of customer >service (I don't have the person's name handy). This representative of >Commodore was very rude to my friend and basically said "you obviously >broke it yourself." I ask you, how can someone break off a MIDDLE pin by >simply removing the connector? In other words, the pin that broke was not >on the end of the connector, and none of the other pins were even bent. >You can't do that by merely pulling the connector off incorrectly. The >rep's attitude was basically "we don't care about you," but he did give >him the name of another local company that would do the repair (not under >warranty, of course). My friend contacted this firm, and they said "we >don't work on that particular machine." So much for Commodore's advice. I have an idea what might have happened with the dealer he took it to. The dealer probably thought "he didn't buy it from me, but from some stinkin' mail-order place, so I'll pull the wool over his eyes". Your 2000 IS covered regardless of whether it has been opened. So the dealer was full of SH*T. (I assume the dealer was in the list of authorized repair locations included with the 2000, if not, your friend boo-booed.) If what you report is what someone at C= customer service said, I'd like to find out the name of this person. It sounds as if this person didn't agree with the dealer about the warranty, but should have told the dealer to repair the unit (or at least look at it to see what caused the damage). What did your friend say to this person? Your friend also should have gotten in touch with the mail-order firm, who might well have been willing to replace it (if they are reputable: your comment that they couldn't be reached by phone worries me.) I bought my 2000 by mail, and had no problem (Software Hut in Philidelphia), and the local dealer has often just swapped units for people when they have a problem under warranty, so they could get back up as soon as possible. You also refered to the person from commodore as a 'rep', does this mean the regional rep? I have heard that some of them can be pretty poor, and that they are being phased out by C=. If I were your friend, I would also have gone back to the dealer and asked him where in the warranty does it say that opening the unit voids the warranty. That WAS the case with the 1000, and except for the 512K expansion, for the 500. Maybe this is a confused dealer, in any case he would have had trouble finding it. Only then would I have considered calling C= if the dealer refused saying 'I cant find it, but I know it' or some such. I do really pity your friend and what he went through, often going through mail order is cheaper, but it can cause endless hassles, especially if there is any problem with the unit or billing. // Randell Jesup Lunge Software Development // Dedicated Amiga Programmer 13 Frear Ave, Troy, NY 12180 \\// lunge!jesup@beowulf.UUCP (518) 272-2942 \/ (uunet!steinmetz!beowulf!lunge!jesup)
suh@cunixc.columbia.edu (Kenneth Suh) (01/09/88)
In article <517@ra.rice.edu> phil@rice.edu (William LeFebvre) writes: >He did what the warranty said; he took his machine to a local dealer. >They looked at it and said "it's obviously defective, but you opened the >case and therefore violated the warranty. Tough luck." When I ordered my 2000, I was told that my second internal 3.5" drive was on order but the 2000 was available. I was informed by the head of sales that if I installed the second drive myself, the warranty would still be valid. I asked them to ship me my 2000 and installed the 3.5" drive the following week. Which dealer is correct? /ken
richard@gryphon.CTS.COM (Richard Sexton) (01/10/88)
satisfaction ()
{
while (you_are_getting_a_hard_time)
{
phone_printf ("Let me talk to your boss, please\n");
}
}
"Hope this helps"
--
It's too dark in Santa Fe, or something like that.
richard@gryphon.CTS.COM
{ihnp4!scgvaxd!cadovax, philabs!cadovax, codas!ddsw1} gryphon!richardbobb@tekfdi.TEK.COM (Robert Bales) (01/11/88)
In article <6081@oberon.USC.EDU> papa@pollux.usc.edu (Marco Papa) writes: >> William LeFebvre >>Why doesn't Commodore stand behind its product? They can't afford to do >>this to their customers. Is it really a violation of warranty to simply >>open the case? I don't recall the warranty saying anything about that. >Yes, it is. Quote from "Introduction to the Commodore Amiga 2000," under "Caring for the Amiga 2000:" Open the case *only* to insert/remove perpheral expansion hardware. If your Amiga needs service, bring it to an approved Amiga Service Center. Attempting to service the Amiga on your own will void the warranty on your Amiga. This implies to me that user insertion/removal of expansion hardware does not void the warranty. But I was fiddling around and damaged my Amiga without opening the cover, so it's now in the shop -- sigh! Bob Bales Tektronix, Inc. I help Tektronix make their instruments. They don't help me make my opinions.
jim@coplex.UUCP (01/11/88)
In article <355@cunixc.columbia.edu>, suh@cunixc.columbia.edu (Kenneth Suh) writes: > In article <517@ra.rice.edu> phil@rice.edu (William LeFebvre) writes: > >He did what the warranty said; he took his machine to a local dealer. > >They looked at it and said "it's obviously defective, but you opened the > >case and therefore violated the warranty. Tough luck." > > When I ordered my 2000, I was told that my second internal 3.5" drive > was on order but the 2000 was available. I was informed by the head of > sales that if I installed the second drive myself, the warranty would > still be valid. I asked them to ship me my 2000 and installed the 3.5" > drive the following week. Which dealer is correct? > > /ken // Well, Ken, Page 6-2 Caring for the Amiga in the "Introduction to \\// Amiga" book that I am assuming comes with the machine (I got mine second hand) says: "Don't open the case. If your Amiga needs service, bring it to an Amiga dealer or an approved Amiga Service Center. Opening the case will void the warranty on your Amiga." <To C-A, please forgive the copyright infringement ;-)> I guess that about says it all. From my personal experience, every computer I have ever seen has such notices in the manual. They don't want to pay for us messing up their equipment I suppose. ============================================================================= Jim Sewell "Make knowledge free!"
cm450s02@uhccux.UUCP (Jeff T. Segawa) (01/11/88)
In article <6081@oberon.USC.EDU> papa@pollux.usc.edu (Marco Papa) writes: > >Sorry, but opening the case and doing what your friend did is EXACTLY what >will VOID a warranty, whether Commodore, IBM, Apple or whatever. He should >have read the warranty. That kind of work is supposed to be done at an >authorized service center or Commodore dealer. > This does not seem right to me. It makes sense in the case of the A1000 and A500 which do not have expansion slots inside, but an A2000 DOES have slots, and there's no way to get at them without opening the case. And I would hardly have expected the mail order company to install the cards, since I would imagine that it would be more vulnerable to damage in transit if sent fully loaded with cards. And opening the case of a Mac II, Apple //e or GS does not void the warranty. In fact, the manual that comes with Apple's expansion cards for the Mac and Apple II's is geared to guiding the user through the installation and trouble shooting process. The only exceptions to this rule are the older Macs and the //c, which either have no expansion slots, or else expose the user to dangerously high voltages and/or require some technical know-how. To date, I've opened my Mac II to install a hard disk and the video card and it's expansion RAM chips, and so far as I've been able to tell, the dealers could care less as far as my warranty was concerned, so long as I didn't actually modify the thing or touch it with a soldering iron. > >Note that the IBM warrantly is ALSO voided by the type of action that your >friend executed. Many IBM dealers won't touch a machine that has been >fooled with by a customer. In fact, many IBM dealers will require that you >take out all foreign (non-IBM) boards when you carry a machine to the >daler for repair. > Not so sure about this, but when I got my PC Convertible (don't laugh-- it was cheap), the expansion parts (internal modem, backlit supertwist screen, upgraded power supply card) did include manuals instructing the user in the installation process, though the modem's manual DOES suggest that a dealer do it, because it involves digging pretty deep in the machine's innards. I don't believe that any of this voids the warranty, so long as the instructions are carefully followed. The power supply card/backlit screen upgrade kit seems to be only available from the IBM Direct center, and they ship the things out directly to the end user. I think the only exceptions to this might be cases where the hardware is covered by some sort of service contract/extended warranty, such as AppleCare.
rodger@hpmrtca.HP.COM (Rodger Anderson) (01/11/88)
/ hpmrtca:comp.sys.amiga / phil@titan.rice.edu (William LeFebvre) / 11:31 am Jan 7, 1988 / >the drives, the installation instructions sent with the drive said to >remove a connector from the motherboard. He did that, but one of the >middle pins on the board came off with the connector. "No problem," he You don't say for sure, but if the connectory is for the internal 3.5" drives, and only one pin is missing, then that pin is the key. What appears to be the broken end is left in the connector. I thought I had broken it until I looked in the manual and noticed that for this pin, it said "KEY". Perhaps your friend didn't break the 2000 at all, and went through all that trouble for nothing. > William LeFebvre > Department of Computer Science > Rice University > <phil@Rice.edu> >---------- Rodger Anderson (hplabs!hpcea!hpmrtca!rodger)
sean@ms.uky.edu (Sean Casey) (01/11/88)
When one is getting the runaround, one should:
- Get the names of the persons involved.
- Speak to their superiors.
- Get it in writing.
Usually the first two work. I add the last because most business
discussions over the phone are not legally binding. On the other
hand, sending registered mail when you have a photocopy is very
legal, and has gotten me out of a jam before.
Sean
--
-- Sean Casey sean@ms.uky.edu, sean@ukma.bitneT
-- (the Empire guy) {rutgers,uunet,cbosgd}!ukma!sean
-- University of Kentucky in Lexington Kentucky, USA
-- "If something can go will, it wrong."jesup@pawl19.pawl.rpi.edu (Randell E. Jesup) (01/12/88)
In article <339@coplex.UUCP> jim@coplex.UUCP (Jim Sewell) writes: >Well, Ken, Page 6-2 Caring for the Amiga in the "Introduction to \\// Amiga" >book that I am assuming comes with the machine (I got mine second hand) says: >"Don't open the case. If your Amiga needs service, bring it to an Amiga >dealer or an approved Amiga Service Center. Opening the case will void >the warranty on your Amiga." Sorry, but that must not have been an A2000 manual. Chapter 6 in mine is 'Using preferences'. Chapter 8 is hardware expansion, and says that you can, for example, "install them [internal drives] yourself ... or have a dealer do it for you." // Randell Jesup Lunge Software Development // Dedicated Amiga Programmer 13 Frear Ave, Troy, NY 12180 \\// beowulf!lunge!jesup@steinmetz.UUCP (518) 272-2942 \/ (uunet!steinmetz!beowulf!lunge!jesup) BIX: rjesup
joels@tekred.TEK.COM (Joel Swank) (01/13/88)
In article <6081@oberon.USC.EDU>, papa@pollux.usc.edu (Marco Papa) writes: > > Sorry, but opening the case and doing what your friend did is EXACTLY what > will VOID a warranty, whether Commodore, IBM, Apple or whatever. He should > have read the warranty. That kind of work is supposed to be done at an > authorized service center or Commodore dealer. > Sorry, but this is false, at least in the case of IBM. The warranty does not forbid the user from opening the case. I just read the warranty for my PC/AT. In fact the guide to operations gives very explicit instructions for opening the case and installing various options. If this is true of the Amiga 2000 I'm gonna cancel my order, because it is STUPID on a box with expansion capability. Joel Swank Tektronix, Redmond, Oregon joels@tekred.TEK.COM
hrlaser@pnet02.cts.com (Harv Laser) (01/13/88)
joels@tekred.TEK.COM (Joel Swank) writes: >In article <6081@oberon.USC.EDU>, papa@pollux.usc.edu (Marco Papa) writes: >> >> Sorry, but opening the case and doing what your friend did is EXACTLY what >> will VOID a warranty, whether Commodore, IBM, Apple or whatever. He should >> have read the warranty. That kind of work is supposed to be done at an >> authorized service center or Commodore dealer. >> >Sorry, but this is false, at least in the case of IBM. The warranty does >not forbid the user from opening the case. I just read the warranty for >my PC/AT. In fact the guide to operations gives very explicit instructions >for opening the case and installing various options. If this is true of >the Amiga 2000 I'm gonna cancel my order, because it is STUPID on a >box with expansion capability. > >Joel Swank >Tektronix, Redmond, Oregon >joels@tekred.TEK.COM Well this is getting silly, and should be easy to get to the truth.. Hey, someone out there, what does your A2000 manual say about installing stuff inside? Does it say "Here's how to open your computer and put stuff inside" or does it say "Don't open your computer to put stuff inside, have an authorized dealer/repair center do it" ?? Does your warranty card say anything about opening or not opening and/or who can open and not open? [I have an A1000 and I've never opened it up and never put anything innside, but I do SLAP stuff on the SIDE and she seems to like that a lot] UUCP: {ihnp4!scgvaxd!cadovax, rutgers!marque}!gryphon!pnet02!hrlaser INET: hrlaser@pnet02.cts.com
suh@cunixc.columbia.edu (Kenneth Suh) (01/13/88)
In article <339@coplex.UUCP> jim@coplex.UUCP (Jim Sewell) writes: >Well, Ken, Page 6-2 Caring for the Amiga in the "Introduction to \\// Amiga" >book that I am assuming comes with the machine (I got mine second hand) says: >"Don't open the case. If your Amiga needs service, bring it to an Amiga >dealer or an approved Amiga Service Center. Opening the case will void >the warranty on your Amiga." >I guess that about says it all. From my personal experience, every computer I >have ever seen has such notices in the manual. >Jim Sewell "Make knowledge free!" hmmm. All of this quoting from the manual got me thinking. So, I grabbed my manual. Page 6-2 is blank. On page 8-5, it states: To attach the internal model[disk drive], follow the instructions packed with the drive or have your dealer install it. My "Introduction to the Amiga 2000" is copywrited 1985, 1986, 1987. By the way, page 6-2 is in the section on using preferences. I am no longer worried about my warranty being invalid. If anyone else out there ever owned an IBM PC, they will recall that the "Guide to Operations" detailed how to remove the cover and set the dip switches and/or install other peripherals. Sorry to waste the bandwith. /ken ====================================================================== Kenneth Suh SY.SUH@CU20B BITNET suh@cunixc.columbi.edu ARPANET ...!rutgers!columbia!cunixc!suh (I think)
campbell@cbmvax.UUCP (John Campbell SW) (01/14/88)
Although this is not my area of involvement, nor my area of expertise, I will try to shed some light on the warranty controversy. As always, these are my opinions and not the declarations of Commodore. The A2000 manual that I have clearly states on page 9-3: "Open the case only to insert/remove peripheral expansion hardware. If your Amiga needs service, bring it to an approved Amiga Service Center. Attempting to service the Amiga on your own will void the warranty on your Amiga." In the Amiga Hard Disk Controller Manual (A2090), on page 3: "Commodore will not be responsible for any damages caused by improper installation of the hard disk or the A2090. Improper installation will void the warranties on both the Amiga 2000 and the A2090." My personal conclusion is that you don't void your warranty unless you are trying to service the machine or you screw up the installation. In summary, if you don't know what you are doing it would be safer for you to have the dealer install the peripherals. If you do know what you are doing, then put them in!!! I hope this helps and does not clutter the bandwidth further. We have so many more important issues (at least from my perspective) to discuss. John (I'm not big on titles, but since many don't know me: Manager, Worldwide Software and Support, Commodore Intl.) All relevant disclaimers.......
jim@coplex.UUCP (Jim Sewell) (01/15/88)
In article <208@imagine.PAWL.RPI.EDU>, jesup@pawl19.pawl.rpi.edu (Randell E. Jesup) writes: > > Sorry, but that must not have been an A2000 manual. > Uhm, er, yeah. You are right, it was a 1000 manual. Must have been thinking in binary again and say the 2 as an invalid number 8-). Sorry bout that, but it does hold to my point about never having seen a computer say, "Ok, open me up and then take me back if you break me." I have not seen the 2000 manual yet, so don't flame me. I am not saying it doesn't say that, just that I have never seen it. ============================================================================= Jim Sewell // ...!mit-eddie!bloom-beacon!coplex!jim \\ // "Make knowledge free!" \X/ Your Amiga is alive. Isn't it wonderful!
bill@cbmvax.UUCP (Bill Koester CATS) (01/15/88)
In article <2120@gryphon.CTS.COM> hrlaser@pnet02.cts.com (Harv Laser) writes: >Well this is getting silly, and should be easy to get to the truth.. >Hey, someone out there, what does your A2000 manual say about installing >stuff inside? Does it say "Here's how to open your computer and put >stuff inside" or does it say "Don't open your computer to put stuff >inside, have an authorized dealer/repair center do it" ?? Introduction to the Amiga 2000 page 9-3 Opening the case. Open the case only to insert/remove peripheral exapnsion hardware. If yor Amiga needs service, bring it to an approved Amiga Service Center. Attempting to service the Amiga on your own will void the warranty on your Amiga. -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Bill Koester (CATS) >>Commodore Amiga Technical Support<< Commodore International Ltd. UUCP {allegra|burdvax|rutgers|ihnp4}!cbmvax!bill PHONE (215) 431-9355 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Pleese desrigard eny spealing airors!!!!!!! =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
papa@pollux.usc.edu (Marco Papa) (01/16/88)
In article <2040@tekred.TEK.COM> joels@tekred.TEK.COM (Joel Swank) writes: >In article <6081@oberon.USC.EDU>, papa@pollux.usc.edu (Marco Papa) writes: >> >> Sorry, but opening the case and doing what your friend did is EXACTLY what ^^^^^^ >> will VOID a warranty, whether Commodore, IBM, Apple or whatever. He should >> have read the warranty. That kind of work is supposed to be done at an >> authorized service center or Commodore dealer. >> >Sorry, but this is false, at least in the case of IBM. The warranty does >not forbid the user from opening the case. I just read the warranty for >my PC/AT. In fact the guide to operations gives very explicit instructions >for opening the case and installing various options. If this is true of >the Amiga 2000 I'm gonna cancel my order, because it is STUPID on a >box with expansion capability. You should read my messages more carefully, Joel. It is well known that JUST opening the case does not void the warranty, BUT this is not all that happened in the mentioned case. Parts were broken by the user. Installing a board on an IBM is at the user's risk. This is lifted from the IBM PC AT Guide to Operations (probably Copyright by IBM): ... "This limited warranty does not include service to repair damage resulting from accident, disaster, misuse, abuse, or non-IBM modification of the product..." ^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^ It is in fine print, but that's what it says, and most other manufacturers have similar if not identical ones. IBM has the extra requirement that it will not service a machine that contains non-IBM boards. Next time, put your glasses on :-) -- Marco
chanst@atrium.UUCP (Steve T Chan) (01/17/88)
In article <2120@gryphon.CTS.COM>, hrlaser@pnet02.cts.com (Harv Laser) writes: > Well this is getting silly, and should be easy to get to the truth.. > Hey, someone out there, what does your A2000 manual say about installing > stuff inside? Does it say "Here's how to open your computer and put > stuff inside" or does it say "Don't open your computer to put stuff > inside, have an authorized dealer/repair center do it" ?? > Does your warranty card say anything about opening or not opening > and/or who can open and not open? > My A2000 manual says that I can add drives in the box myself or (notice this) have a dealer do it, I think that means a customer can do it too.. And there are instructions that comes with the drive, It didn't say that its "FOR AUTHORIZED DEALER USE ONLY" and my dealer says its OK to install them yourself. Steve Chan UUCP: gatech!petro!atrium!chanst
phil@titan.rice.edu (William LeFebvre) (01/18/88)
In article <6234@oberon.USC.EDU> papa@pollux.usc.edu (Marco Papa) writes: >In article <2040@tekred.TEK.COM> joels@tekred.TEK.COM (Joel Swank) writes: >>In article <6081@oberon.USC.EDU>, papa@pollux.usc.edu (Marco Papa) writes: >>> ...That kind of work is supposed to be done at an >>> authorized service center or Commodore dealer. >> >>Sorry, but this is false, at least in the case of IBM. The warranty does >>not forbid the user from opening the case. I just read the warranty for >>my PC/AT. In fact the guide to operations gives very explicit instructions >>for opening the case and installing various options.... > >You should read my messages more carefully, Joel. It is well known that JUST >opening the case does not void the warranty, BUT this is not all that happened >in the mentioned case. Parts were broken by the user. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that my last reply hasn't reached your site yet, so I won't be inflammatory. I'll just merely state again for the record that my friend did NOT break anything. The connector that was installed in the motherboard was faulty to begin with. ANYONE, be it owner or authorized serviceman, would have had the same experience when s/he pulled the connector off: the pin would have come with it. This is not opinion---this is solid fact, backed up by the statement of one authorized serviceman who admitted to the owner (my friend) that the unit was "obviously faulty". >...This is lifted from the IBM PC AT Guide to Operations (probably >Copyright by IBM): > >... "This limited warranty does not include service to repair damage >resulting from accident, disaster, misuse, abuse, or non-IBM modification of >the product..." ^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^ > >It is in fine print, but that's what it says, and most other manufacturers >have similar if not identical ones. I see no such wording in the Commodore warranty, nor in the document "Introduction to the Amiga 2000." I see nothing even close. >Next time, put your glasses on :-) Perhaps you should put yours on as well. ;-) William LeFebvre Department of Computer Science Rice University <phil@Rice.edu>
stroyan@hpfcdc.HP.COM (Mike Stroyan) (01/18/88)
In case everyone hasn't noticed, the "failure" which started this discussion is probably the key-pin connector orientation feature described in the posting titled "2000 Owners Relax". Mike Stroyan, [hplabs!]hpfcla!stroyan
tomb@hplsla.HP.COM ( Tom Bruhns) (01/19/88)
> / papa@pollux.usc.edu (Marco Papa) / 8:43 pm Jan 15, 1988 / > in the mentioned case. Parts were broken by the user. Installing a board ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I think I read all the original note and responses; it certainly was not clear to me that parts were broken by the user, and not just DISCOVERED to be broken by the user (or, as someone else suggested, perhaps not broken at all??) > on an IBM is at the user's risk. This is lifted from the IBM PC AT Guide to > Operations (probably Copyright by IBM): > > ... "This limited warranty does not include service to repair damage > resulting from accident, disaster, misuse, abuse, or non-IBM modification of > the product..." ^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^ Again, the words of the poster did not make me think "misuse" or "modification," but his words did make me think "less than optimal customer support at perhaps several levels." That is, if the original account was accurate, the customer could have been told in a much better way what the real problem was. It SOUNDED TO ME like he met up with quite a bunch of folk whose answers were in the vein of "It's your problem until you convince me otherwise," instead of "What can I do to help straighten this out and determine where the problem really started?" If I have a choice between those two approaches, even if the answer comes out the same in the end, which do you think I will choose?? (Just this sort of interaction really turned me off to Scribble! recently and turned me on to Wordperfect. When I complained of defects, MicroSystems Software's response was, "Get off our case -- those are enhancement requests." [a request for a fix for lost data is an enhancement request??] WordPerfect's response to a query about a workaround for a small printing defect was to tell me they were aware of it, working on it, and would send an update -- three weeks later, a whole new set of discs arrived.) To those of you who deal directly with customers: NEVER underestimate the effect that your APPROACH and the WORDS YOU USE have on your customers!! Please note that I am not taking sides in the issue of, "Did he break his computer or not?" To me, that wasn't the point of this discussion at all! > > -- Marco > ---------- Tom Bruhns uucp: !hplabs!hplsla!tomb
papa@pollux.usc.edu (Marco Papa) (01/19/88)
In article <537@ra.rice.edu> phil@Rice.edu (William LeFebvre) writes: >In article <6234@oberon.USC.EDU> papa@pollux.usc.edu (Marco Papa) writes: > >>...This is lifted from the IBM PC AT Guide to Operations (probably >>Copyright by IBM): >> >>... "This limited warranty does not include service to repair damage >>resulting from accident, disaster, misuse, abuse, or non-IBM modification of >>the product..." ^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^ >> >>It is in fine print, but that's what it says, and most other manufacturers >>have similar if not identical ones. > >I see no such wording in the Commodore warranty, nor in the document >"Introduction to the Amiga 2000." I see nothing even close. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Well, try with 2 pairs of glasses :-) As two messages from Commodore representatives have already stated, you are wrong on this one too. Open the box, OK. Do anything that results in a "damaged" machine, AFTER opening the box, and the warranty is gone. From the "Introduction to the Amiga 2000" manual: "Open the case ONLY [boldfaced!] to insert/remove peripheral expansion hardware. If your Amiga needs service, bring it to an Approved Amiga Service Center. Attempting to service the Amiga on your own will VOID THE WARRANTY on your Amiga". This is NOT even in fine print as in the IBM manuals. -- Marco