cunniff@hpfclq.UUCP (01/16/88)
Question 1: With the advent of 16-bit (80286) bridge cards, it will soon
become desirable to transform the last two PC slots on the
A2000 into PC-AT slots. My question is: can the missing
connectors just be soldered into place, or must some
resistors/capacitors/etc. be added as well?
Question 2: I have heard rumors that C-A is developing a 'Fatso'
Agnes that will:
1. Allow for 400 line non-interlaced displays
(on a multi-scan type monitor)
2. Allow for more bitplanes (i.e. 7 or 8)
than are currently possible.
Now, the memory bandwidth for 320 pixel-wide screens
exists to do both of the above (since 640 pixel-wide
screens require twice the bandwidth, and *THEY* work).
However, it is my understanding that 4 bitplane 640
pixel-wide screens take up ALL available memory bandwidth
in chip memory. Any ideas how an Agnes/Denise/Paula
replacement could create a 640x400x8 noninterlaced
screen WITHOUT requiring a significantly faster
bus and RAM chips? It seems to me that you would
have to increase the clock rate to 14 Mhz, and drop
in 120 or 100 ns RAM chips, in order to get the necessary
bandwidth. Am I wrong? (I'm sure y'all will let me
know :-> ). If not, I'll just have to dismiss these
rumors as entirely bogus, as such changes would probably
require MAJOR motherboard rework.
Ross Cunniff
Hewlett-Packard System Software Operation
...{ucbvax,hplabs}!hpda!cunniff
cunniff%hpda@hplabs.ARPAcmcmanis%pepper@Sun.COM (Chuck McManis) (01/19/88)
In article <4230011@hpfclq.HP.COM> cunniff@hpfclq.HP.COM (Ross Cunniff) writes: |>Question 1: With the advent of 16-bit (80286) bridge cards, it will soon |> become desirable to transform the last two PC slots on the |> A2000 into PC-AT slots. My question is: can the missing |> connectors just be soldered into place, or must some |> resistors/capacitors/etc. be added as well? This would not be too tough if you have a decent desoldering station. If you are using a sucker or solder wick be very careful not to lift a trace or two. As for capacitors etc, I didn't notice any conspicuously empty holes in the motherboard last time I looked that would hold them so my guess would be that they aren't needed. The below sounds like a mix up of facts so hopefully, this will clear the air somewhat. In any event the story will change after being passed from users group to users group. All of the things stated below, by me are things that I "know" to be true because either Commodore has verified them or I have played with them ... |>Question 2: I have heard rumors that C-A is developing a 'Fatso' |> Agnes that will: First let's get our terminology straight, 'Agnes' generates addresses and 'Denise' generates the display. (with some help of course). Commodore has admitted publicly that they are working on a version of Agnes that addresses 1Meg of chip RAM, and the 2000 and 500 mother boards both have jumpers to make the internal Meg of RAM continuous starting at 0. So I think it is safe to assume that at some time this will be the 'standard' configuration. |> 1. Allow for 400 line non-interlaced displays |> (on a multi-scan type monitor) At COMDEX Microway showed a gadget called "Flicker Fixer" that plugged into the Video slot of and Amiga 2000 (American version) and deinterlaced the video going out. They were mumbling $1000 for board (or was it board and monitor?). It looked really nice, they had a version of X-Cad running using 400 line screens. (Oh and it supports overscan screens so 704 X 448 is doable too). It should be at least orderable now, I don't know when they were planning on shipping it. The Amiga 1000 X 800 monitor is based on the same principle, except that it works on 500's and 1000's as well, yet is only monochrome. (it's *not* orderable now.) |> 2. Allow for more bitplanes (i.e. 7 or 8) |> than are currently possible. |> Now, the memory bandwidth for 320 pixel-wide screens |> exists to do both of the above (since 640 pixel-wide |> screens require twice the bandwidth, and *THEY* work). |> However, it is my understanding that 4 bitplane 640 |> pixel-wide screens take up ALL available memory bandwidth |> in chip memory. Any ideas how an Agnes/Denise/Paula |> replacement could create a 640x400x8 noninterlaced |> screen WITHOUT requiring a significantly faster |> bus and RAM chips? It seems to me that you would |> have to increase the clock rate to 14 Mhz, and drop |> in 120 or 100 ns RAM chips, in order to get the necessary |> bandwidth. Am I wrong? (I'm sure y'all will let me |> know :-> ). If not, I'll just have to dismiss these |> rumors as entirely bogus, as such changes would probably |> require MAJOR motherboard rework. This rumor crops up now and then, and you are correct that the bandwidth just isn't there to do more than 16 colors in 'High Resolution' mode. But even that is not as much of a problem as finding the chip real estate to put another 32, 96, or 224 color registers (for 6, 7, or 8 bits). I have worked on chip designs in the past, and registers take up lots of space. About the only thing you could do with a tweak would be to add bits to the DACs to increase the color palette. By adding a single bit to each color you could boost the range to 2^15 (or 32768) possible colors. If you added it to the HAM circuitry that would make subtle shading easier. So I think you are stuck with 32 colors for now. --Chuck McManis uucp: {anywhere}!sun!cmcmanis BIX: cmcmanis ARPAnet: cmcmanis@sun.com These opinions are my own and no one elses, but you knew that didn't you.
daveh@cbmvax.UUCP (Dave Haynie) (01/20/88)
in article <4230011@hpfclq.HP.COM>, cunniff@hpfclq.HP.COM (Ross Cunniff) says: > Question 1: With the advent of 16-bit (80286) bridge cards, it will soon > become desirable to transform the last two PC slots on the > A2000 into PC-AT slots. My question is: can the missing > connectors just be soldered into place, or must some > resistors/capacitors/etc. be added as well? Just solder them into place. This missing connectors are not so much to force you into using only one 16 bit peripheral, but to leave room for any PC peripherals that overhand the normal 8 bit slots, like hard cards. All the proper circuitry is in place for these to be 16 bit slots. This technique is common on regular PClones as well. But on these, you're stuck with a PClone... > Ross Cunniff -- Dave Haynie "The B2000 Guy" Commodore-Amiga "The Crew That Never Rests" {ihnp4|uunet|rutgers}!cbmvax!daveh PLINK: D-DAVE H BIX: hazy "I can't relax, 'cause I'm a Boinger!"
spencer@eris (Randal m. Spencer [RmS]) (01/20/88)
Recently on *comp.sys.amiga* cunniff@hpfclq.HP.COM (Ross Cunniff) wrote: ...Question 2: I have heard rumors that C-A is developing a 'Fatso' ... Agnes that will: It is not called the 'Fatso' Agnes, it is the 'Fatter' Agnes (as in: Fat, Fatter, Fattest), and anyway, it is a rumor, anything said by anyone would be rumor, and Commodore can't be expected to confirm or deny anything that is just a rumor (or that would be all they do with their days. Just lay back for a while, we shall see what we shall see. ... ... 1. Allow for 400 line non-interlaced displays ... (on a multi-scan type monitor) But just to help with the spread of, or demise of, this rumor, I will say that the above is NOT true, or possible (of course, that's just the rumor:') ... 2. Allow for more bitplanes (i.e. 7 or 8) ... than are currently possible. ... ... Now, the memory bandwidth for 320 pixel-wide screens ... exists to do both of the above (since 640 pixel-wide ... screens require twice the bandwidth, and *THEY* work). ... However, it is my understanding that 4 bitplane 640 ... pixel-wide screens take up ALL available memory bandwidth ... in chip memory. Any ideas how an Agnes/Denise/Paula ... replacement could create a 640x400x8 noninterlaced ... screen WITHOUT requiring a significantly faster ... bus and RAM chips? It seems to me that you would ... have to increase the clock rate to 14 Mhz, and drop ... in 120 or 100 ns RAM chips, in order to get the necessary ... bandwidth. Am I wrong? (I'm sure y'all will let me ... know :-> ). If not, I'll just have to dismiss these ... rumors as entirely bogus, as such changes would probably ... require MAJOR motherboard rework. ... This was a very good posting, this is a major point that rumor spreaders have missed consistantly. Thanks for pointing it out, (of course, this opens it up for 160x200x12 resolution. ... ... Ross Cunniff -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Randy Spencer P.O. Box 4542 Berkeley CA 94704 (415)222-7595 spencer@mica.berkeley.edu I N F I N I T Y BBS: (415)222-9416 ..ucbvax!mica!spencer s o f t w a r e AAA-WH1M -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
harald@ccicpg.UUCP ( Harald Milne) (01/20/88)
In article <39214@sun.uucp>, cmcmanis%pepper@Sun.COM (Chuck McManis) writes: > At COMDEX Microway showed a gadget called "Flicker Fixer" that plugged into > the Video slot of and Amiga 2000 (American version) and deinterlaced the > video going out. They were mumbling $1000 for board (or was it board and > monitor?). It looked really nice, they had a version of X-Cad running using > 400 line screens. (Oh and it supports overscan screens so 704 X 448 is doable > too). It should be at least orderable now, I don't know when they were > planning on shipping it. When I was at COMDEX, Microway was mumbling $595.00. It does not only deinterlace, it fills in between scan lines, making non-interlace look very nice. Im still waiting panting, ah er waiting. At COMDEX, I thought the X-Cad display was really silly. The picture was shrunk WAY TOO much. It wasn't until I got my Mitsubishi Monitor, I realized why. You can adjust this via externally adjustable controls. It easily handles overscan. Again, the externally adjustable controls. Shipping? Good question. When I asked, it was the end of Jan, pending FCC approval, dog knows when. Standard disclaimer for RF transmitters. Im waiting. Unfortunately, at AmiExpo, when I asked NewTek if the Video Toaster occupied a slot on the 100 pin bus AND the VIDEO BUS, they said "maybe, maybe not". Nice. It's one or the other. They could have just have told me to just stick it somewhere. I guess they did. If I am becoming incomprehensible now, its 6:00 in the morning, no sleep. Sh*t, I missed you too? Richard didn't tell me. > --Chuck McManis > uucp: {anywhere}!sun!cmcmanis BIX: cmcmanis ARPAnet: cmcmanis@sun.com > These opinions are my own and no one elses, but you knew that didn't you. -- Work: Computer Consoles Inc. (CCI), Advanced Development Group (ADG) Irvine, CA (RISCy business! Home of the CCI POWER 6/32) UUCP: uunet!ccicpg!harald
bryce@hoser.berkeley.edu (Bryce Nesbitt) (01/21/88)
In article <4230011@hpfclq.HP.COM> cunniff@hpfclq.HP.COM (Ross Cunniff) writes: |Question 1: ...it will soon become desirable to transform the last two PC |slots on the A2000 into PC-AT slots.... Just solder the new connectors in. Nothing else needed. >Question 2: [I've heard some rummors...] >1. Allow for 400 line non-interlaced displays > (on a multi-scan type monitor) Great rummor! I hope it is true. 200 line displays are ugly... square pixels are worth the hassle. Here's an even better rummor... a 1280*800 pixel mode. This does not even require any higher raw memory bandwidth (for monochrome). >Any ideas how an Agnes/Denise/Paula >replacement could create a 640x400x8 noninterlaced >screen WITHOUT requiring a significantly faster >bus and RAM chips? Yes. Double with width of the bus. If you look at the way the chips are structured, you see that Agnus only generates addresses. The actual data does not need to pass thorough it. This means it would be possible (not easy, or trivial, just possible) to do a 32 bit Denise. All your registers, etc. would still remain 16 bits wide. This would cut in half the memory time slots needed for any one display. It would still leave a 16 bit blitter, but that blitter would have twice the free cycles to operate with. >If not, I'll just have to dismiss these >rumors as entirely bogus, as such changes would probably >require MAJOR motherboard rework. But the bogus rumors are the most fun. Just read Atari press releases for some prime examples :-) :-)! (Or Commodore ones for that matter... where's my Commodore LCD?) |\ /| . Ack! (NAK, SOH, EOT) {o O} . bryce@hoser.berkeley.EDU -or- ucbvax!hoser!bryce (or try "cogsci") (") U "As an engineer, I only set the value of a product... not the cost." -Bryce Nesbitt