miket@pro-charlotte.cts.com (Mike Thompson) (01/16/88)
Dongles are just not the answer. The fact remains that there is not ONE amiga program out there on the market today that uses a dongle that has not been cracked, hacked, or usually just de-dongled by Marauder II and Amiga Dos's disk structure is not all that complicated. Admittedly you could have a complicated and integral part of the code residing in the dongle, but that would be more trouble than its worth. More people would become frustrated with dongle software, I for one dont relish the idea of having a dongle case with assorted devices to run my software. I think the best solution to software piracy is what micro-illusions has done recently with firepower, make the games so inexpensive that most pirates will just buy them and in the process get documentation.. If software developers could find some 'main' publishing warehouse where they just submit the program and it is copied numerous times and package in LARGE scale, software prices could come under 7 dollars. Just look in your local bookstore, there are hundreds of books, most under 5 dollars, and each one (well most anyway) represents a major effort on the part of the author. The same is true with software developers but there are no publishers for computers that are large enough to handle the volume required to bring software prices down. Just think, if a fully documented game only cost about 5 dollars, and was a good program, it could be quite succesful in the computer market. Like someone earlier said, Ive got my asbestos suit on!
chanst@atrium.UUCP (Steve T Chan) (01/20/88)
If the software companies could just get the software prices lower, then people will buy them to get the documentation instead of just pirating them, I just hope that the software companies will listen and drop their prices.. See, $20-50 is a reasonable price for a software package in my point of view, but $90-200 or 300 is way overpriced. How would you expect people to buy stuff thats overpriced?? They don't I also got my asbestos suit on, so flame me if you like. Steve Chan UUCP: gatech!petro!atrium!chanst
gardner@prls.UUCP (Robert Gardner) (01/20/88)
In article <2374@crash.cts.com> miket@pro-charlotte.cts.com (Mike Thompson) writes: >Just think, if a fully documented game >only cost about 5 dollars, and was a good program, it could be >quite succesful in the computer market. The problem with the analogy between books and computer games is that of market size. Anyone that can read (English) is a potential customer of a book. Only those that own the particular computer system that a computer program is written for are potential customers. There are many orders of magnitude difference between these market sizes. Given that, it's amazing that you can buy software for under $50. Publishing costs have little to do with software prices. Even for the smallest outfits, they rarely are over $5-$10 per package. Return on investment is what determines prices (and competition, of course), and that depends on market size. Another failure in the analogy is the difficulty in copying a book compared to the difficulty in copying software. Again orders of magnitude difference. Until everyone that can read owns a computer and software is copied as infrequently as novels, don't expect software prices to be as low as book prices. Robert Gardner Great Wave Software
palarson@watdragon.waterloo.edu (Paul Larson) (01/22/88)
In article <155@atrium.UUCP>, chanst@atrium.UUCP (Steve T Chan) writes: > > If the software companies could just get the software prices lower, then > people will buy them to get the documentation instead of just pirating > them, I just hope that the software companies will listen and drop their > prices.. See, $20-50 is a reasonable price for a software package in > my point of view, but $90-200 or 300 is way overpriced. How would > you expect people to buy stuff thats overpriced?? They don't In my opinion, your suggestion of software packages for lessa than fifty dollars each is ludicrous, considering the how much development time and effort a good piece of software represents. However, we do live in a capitalist democracy, so nothing is preseventing you from voting with your wallet. > Steve Chan > UUCP: gatech!petro!atrium!chanst Johan Larson
tsouth@pro-pac.CTS.COM (Todd South) (01/24/88)
>> In article <155@atrium.UUCP>, chanst@atrium.UUCP (Steve T Chan) writes: > In Article: <4744@watdragon.waterloo.edu>, palarson@ (Paul Larson) writes: >> If the software companies could just get the software prices lower, then >> people will buy them to get the documentation instead of just pirating >> them, I just hope that the software companies will listen and drop their >> prices.. See, $20-50 is a reasonable price for a software package in >> my point of view, but $90-200 or 300 is way overpriced. How would >> you expect people to buy stuff thats overpriced?? They don't > In my opinion, your suggestion of software packages for lessa than fifty > dollars each is ludicrous, considering the how much development time and > effort a good piece of software represents. However, we do live in a > capitalist democracy, so nothing is preseventing you from voting with your > wallet. Paul, it's your kind of thinking that really blows me away in terms of the actual authors making money on software. If a mail-order house can buy software (or hardware) for a _low_ price, and sell it for sometimes as much as 80 dollars (US) less, then how can you say that the authors would NOT make the same amount of money simply distributing it to the end-user themselves? I still think that there are too many middle people in this market, and most of the major companies like it that way. Ultimately, the reason that a number of contributers to this system, who write commercially, seem to discount is the fact that each and every software purchase by a majority of users is a _major_ purchase, and that, my friends, is why piracy exists. It is not just the simple fact that people cannot afford it, but that they cannot afford to get burned, also, with each purchase that doesn't do what they need. Todd South +------------------------------------------------------------------+ | uucp: crash!pnet01!pro-simasd!pro-pac!tsouth | Now I only get 50 | | Todd South : Ewa Beach, HI. | cents less than | | Pacific Proline: (808) 499-2831 2400 bd. | minimum wage... | +------------------------------------------------------------------+
chanst@atrium.UUCP (Steve T Chan) (01/27/88)
In article <2408@crash.cts.com>, tsouth@pro-pac.CTS.COM (Todd South) writes: > >> In article <155@atrium.UUCP>, chanst@atrium.UUCP (Steve T Chan) writes: > > Paul, it's your kind of thinking that really blows me away in terms of the > actual authors making money on software. If a mail-order house can buy > software (or hardware) for a _low_ price, and sell it for sometimes as much > as 80 dollars (US) less, then how can you say that the authors would NOT make > the same amount of money simply distributing it to the end-user themselves? > I still think that there are too many middle people in this market, and > most of the major companies like it that way. Ultimately, the reason that > a number of contributers to this system, who write commercially, seem to > discount is the fact that each and every software purchase by a majority of > users is a _major_ purchase, and that, my friends, is why piracy exists. > It is not just the simple fact that people cannot afford it, but that they > cannot afford to get burned, also, with each purchase that doesn't do what > they need. > Todd is right. There are too many middle man and distributors involved, and of course they all wanted their share of profit, which makes software prices so high, if the companies would (I doubt it) distribute their own software directly to our friendly neighborhood dealer, I am sure that software prices will be down drastically, since the author of the program is making the same profit anyway, as Todd said. People could not afford to get burned, thats why before you buy software, be sure to ask the dealer for a demo, try using the program, get comfortable with it, because once you bought it, you are stuck with it, because you cannot return software, thats why I look very carefully before buying software, regardless of which type.. whether its educational or games.. +------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Steve Chan UUCP: gatech!petro!atrium!chanst | | @ Atrium @ The Alamo BITNET: chanst@atrium.UUCP | | San Antonio, Texas ARPA: | | | | 'If you put your minds to it, you could accomplish anything!' - Doc | +------------------------------------------------------------------------+
joe@cbmvax.UUCP (Joe O'Hara) (01/29/88)
In article <181@atrium.UUCP> chanst@atrium.UUCP (Steve T Chan) writes: >Todd is right. There are too many middle man and distributors involved, >and of course they all wanted their share of profit, which makes software >prices so high, if the companies would (I doubt it) distribute their own >software directly to our friendly neighborhood dealer, ... > You're making an (unwarranted) assumption that the software company could do this effectively and efficiently. Take a moment to consider the sales force required to sell to thousands of "friendly neighborhood dealers" dispersed through 50 states (not even assuming international sales). Even if the software company could afford to do this at less cost than selling to one (or several) distributors, then comes the problem of convincing the dealers to provide shelf space. Perhaps some of the large, established software companies - those with multiple titles to offer - but the smaller companies would almost assuredly find themselves locked out of the market. -- ======================================================================== Joe O'Hara || Comments represent my own opinions, Commodore Electronics Ltd || not my employers. Any similarity to Software QA || to any other opinions, living or dead, || is purely coincidental. ========================================================================
haitex@pnet01.cts.com (Wade Bickel) (01/29/88)
chanst@atrium.UUCP (Steve T Chan) writes: >Todd is right. There are too many middle man and distributors involved, >and of course they all wanted their share of profit, which makes software >prices so high, if the companies would (I doubt it) distribute their own >software directly to our friendly neighborhood dealer, I am sure that >software prices will be down drastically, since the author of the program Perhaps. But consider the following. 1) Each distributor removes part of the work load from publishers and such. Without the distributor the publisher must hire additional people. 50 publishers all need, say, one extra person, as opposed to a handful of employees at the distrib- torship. 2) Distributors bear risk when they buy product as well. 3) Distributor's tie up capital in software, and must be compenstated for this at a level beyond that attainable through alternative available investments. 4) If the distributor's could be cut out they would be. In most markets they provide a service that is useful. 5) If the distributor's were getting fat, more distributors would appear and competition would solve this. Finally I have a question. What rate of return on investment for each party concerned do you (anybody) think is fair? Consider the Author, Publisher, Distributor and Retailer. Thanks, Wade. UUCP: {cbosgd, hplabs!hp-sdd, sdcsvax, nosc}!crash!pnet01!haitex ARPA: crash!pnet01!haitex@nosc.mil INET: haitex@pnet01.CTS.COM
kent@xanth.cs.odu.edu (Kent Paul Dolan) (01/31/88)
I've been one of the ones saying that a private author could sell the product lots cheaper than the current distribution network for software. After reading Chuck McMannis's article (thanks, Chuck), I think I'd like to amend that. I can sell software cheaper direct to you if 1) you accept it AND PAY FOR IT via the shareware channels, and/or 2) if you are willing to accept: typed labels, doc on disk only, no fancy packages, just ziplocks and mailers, NO phone support, limited to no written support, limited updates (I can't throw "more manpower" at a crucial bug; there's just me here), word of mouth ads and no show appearances, and reviewers have to PAY FOR review copies. But really, software distributed via shareware or personal publication could be much cheaper if people were willing to accept the concomittent inconveniences. If you don't pay for shareware, DON'T bitch about the high cost of software - you are paying for your "freebies" with every overpriced commercial product that could just as well have been distributed shareware if folks paid for what they kept. Sadly, "the something for nothing" approach divides the software universe into shareware stuff with no support because the author can't earn enough to make it worth the trouble, and commercial stuff with no support because venture capitalists don't care that your database just lost your Aunt Trixie's address. Reveiw the recent comments on Manx unannounced updates if you haven't seen this. Sigh! Kent, the man from xanth. Remember when Americans were known for ethics and probity? "Every people has the government it deserves" - folk saying.
kent@xanth.cs.odu.edu (Kent Paul Dolan) (01/31/88)
In article <3840@xanth.cs.odu.edu> kent@xanth.UUCP I wrote: > >software. After reading Chuck McMannis's article (thanks, Chuck), I ^^ one "n"; I should have looked. Sorry, Chuck. Kent, the man from xanth.