NETOPRHM@NCSUVM.BITNET (Hal Meeks) (02/03/88)
I am going to be in the market for a video digitiser RSN, and
initially was looking at DigiView (what else?). I have seen the
ad for Perfect Vision, but haven't had a chance to play with one
yet.
Initially, I will be needing a way to digitise still objects, but
eventually would like to be able to digitise a series of frames from
a VCR. I know that Live! is meant for this, and it is amazing. But
the picture quality just isn't good enough for my needs (closed system
video). I also know that DigiView can do it, given a stable still
frame VCR and patience. The ad for Perfect Vision leads me to believe
that it would be better for this.
As usual, any comments, opinions, experience, or slander appreciated.
--hal
ali@rocky.STANFORD.EDU (Ali Ozer) (02/04/88)
In article <296NETOPRHM@NCSUVM> NETOPRHM@NCSUVM.BITNET (Hal Meeks) writes: >I am going to be in the market for a video digitiser RSN, and >initially was looking at DigiView (what else?). ... >Initially, I will be needing a way to digitise still objects, but >eventually would like to be able to digitise a series of frames from >a VCR. NewTek has "DigiAdaptor" that supposedly lets you digitize images from a VCR. Anyone have any idea how well it works? Can it be used with *any* VCR? Or do you need a VCR that has good freeze frame in the first place? I also saw "DigiDroid" advertised, again by NewTek --- a device to rotate the RGB wheel automatically! First I cracked up (who'd pay $70 for that?) but after digitizing about 20 pictures this past weekend I now think it'd be a nice thing to have... Of course, you also need some "Digi-" device to chase cats away while digitizing --- Do you know how awful it is to digitize the R and the G and have your cat come and ruin the scene before you digitize B? >Grr< 8-) Ali Ozer, ali@rocky.stanford.edu
cmcmanis%pepper@Sun.COM (Chuck McManis) (02/04/88)
In article <296NETOPRHM@NCSUVM> NETOPRHM@NCSUVM.BITNET (Hal Meeks) writes: >Initially, I will be needing a way to digitise still objects, but >eventually would like to be able to digitise a series of frames from >a VCR. I know that Live! is meant for this, and it is amazing. But >the picture quality just isn't good enough for my needs (closed system >video). Arthur Abrams was demoing the latest version of the Live software at FAUG last night, and my subjective opinion was that they had improved the picture quality by an order of magnitude. They have also included a lot of the slider controls that Digi-View is famous for and as a kicker they can start Deluxe Paint, and digitize into DPaint's spare screen. There is a new menu option 'swap to dpaint' which will stop the Live! program so that you can push the screen back and pull Dpaint to the front. After doing so you can play with the image all you want. Seems like you might want to check with them again. Of course they are more expensive ($295 + Camera) but they are the only ones I know of who can do sequential frames from a running video tape. --Chuck McManis uucp: {anywhere}!sun!cmcmanis BIX: cmcmanis ARPAnet: cmcmanis@sun.com These opinions are my own and no one elses, but you knew that didn't you.
haitex@pnet01.cts.com (Wade Bickel) (02/05/88)
NETOPRHM@NCSUVM.BITNET (Hal Meeks) writes: >I am going to be in the market for a video digitiser RSN, and >initially was looking at DigiView (what else?). I have seen the >ad for Perfect Vision, but haven't had a chance to play with one >yet. > I know of two digitizers which should be available RSN. The specs for the one I saw in action were: Full color from color video camera captured in 1/30th sec. Black and white capture in 1/60th sec. Actually, I believe the capture times were much faster than this (from observation of captured images of people who were not entirely still) but these are what the manufacturer was claiming. Quality? You could see freckles on the subject's face and the individual hairs of his mustache! It was impressive. Drawbacks: data transfer over the parallel port. This can take a while for images with lots of bitplanes. Wade. UUCP: {cbosgd, hplabs!hp-sdd, sdcsvax, nosc}!crash!pnet01!haitex ARPA: crash!pnet01!haitex@nosc.mil INET: haitex@pnet01.CTS.COM
keithd@cadovax.UUCP (Keith Doyle) (02/05/88)
In article <40896@sun.uucp> cmcmanis@sun.UUCP (Chuck McManis) writes:
.Arthur Abrams was demoing the latest version of the Live software at
.FAUG last night, and my subjective opinion was that they had improved
.the picture quality by an order of magnitude. They have also included
Can Live! do overscan? High-res/lo-res/HAM? Gimme the straight poop!.
Keith Doyle
# {ucbvax,decvax}!trwrb!cadovax!keithd Contel Business Systems 213-323-8170rgd059@Mipl3.JPL.Nasa.Gov (02/06/88)
[ This is slightly commercial, so sorry if it offends you, but they asked! ] In article <296NETOPRHM@NCSUVM> Hal Meeks writes: >I am going to be in the market for a video digitiser RSN, and >initially was looking at DigiView (what else?). I have seen the >ad for Perfect Vision, but haven't had a chance to play with one >yet. DISCLAIMER: I'm affiliated with SunRize Industries... I wrote the color display section of the Perfect Vision software (as well as part of City Desk), so I'm not unbiased. However, I'm not an employee of theirs (part-time contract programming), so I'm not an "official" representative of SunRize. >Initially, I will be needing a way to digitise still objects, but >eventually would like to be able to digitise a series of frames from >a VCR. I know that Live! is meant for this, and it is amazing. But >the picture quality just isn't good enough for my needs (closed system >video). I also know that DigiView can do it, given a stable still >frame VCR and patience. The ad for Perfect Vision leads me to believe >that it would be better for this. PV is a frame-grabber. It digitizes in 320X200 or 320X400 mode only, 16 gray scales (4 bits). As for quality, well, it is lo-res, but given that limitation it's quite good. It has brightness and contrast knobs on the box so you can adjust it for the best picture. It lists for $219 and some change and has been shipping for several weeks now. It works on any Amiga model (it has a standard Centronics connector on it). It grabs the entire frame in one video frame time (1/60 sec noninterlace, 1/30 sec interlace) so you can digitize from a moving source without smearing. It interfaces through the parallel port, so even though it grabs the frame in 1/60 of a second and stores it in on-board memory, it takes about a half a second to send all the data over the parallel port. So if you want continuous grabbing, it can get about two frames a second. But, of course, each frame is a still shot of one frame on the tape. Note that Live! takes 1/15 second to grab a picture, even for gray-scale images, since it grabs only one bitplane per frame time, so you get smearing if there's any motion. It is black & white only (well, gray scale) for moving images. To do color, you have two options. First, use optical filters with a camera to get three images (red, green, and blue), like DigiView does. Filters are included. Second, SunRize will be coming out with a box in a month or two that does electronic color separation... that is, it takes a composite color signal and splits it into the red, green, and blue components. It should retail about $70-$80, but that hasn't been decided yet. It will be automatically controlled by the PV software, so you don't have to flip any switches... just tell it to grab a color image and it does it. (I shouldn't say this, but the separator will probably also work with DigiView... but you have to flip your own switch ;-} ) To do color with this color separator box, you need a still image or a VCR with a good freeze-frame, but, it should take only about 3 seconds to grab a full-color image (since each color takes about 1/2 second). DigiView would still take 30 seconds or more. Version 1.0 of the software is shipping now, and we are hard at work on version 1.1, which has a lot of enhancements. It should be out RSN. The upgrade will be free to registered owners. I don't know about upgrades after 1.1... they will be free or very reasonably priced (about $5-10)... SunRize has a good history of inexpensive upgrades with Perfect Sound. Someone in another message asked about using the digitizer from application programs. The source code is not included (at least not currently). If you need the digitizing code, call up SunRize and you can work something out. The source for Perfect Sound is provided with that package, so they don't have much problem with releasing such things. For more information, contact SunRize Industries at (409) 846-1311. Or, you can email me, but again, I'm just a programmer... not an official representative. Sorry again for the commercial nature of this, but you asked...... Disclaimer #2: JPL has nothing to do with this. But then, neither do I :-) Bob Deen @ NASA-JPL Multimission Image Processing Laboratory rgd059@mipl3.jpl.nasa.gov span: mipl3::rgd059
cmcmanis%pepper@Sun.COM (Chuck McManis) (02/06/88)
In article <1919@cadovax.UUCP> keithd@cadovax.UUCP (Keith Doyle) writes: >Can Live! do overscan? High-res/lo-res/HAM? Gimme the straight poop!. no,yes/yes/yes. And it does HAM at something like 15 frames/sec! No overscan support that I could see, the menus had selections for all of the 'standard' sizes (320 X 200, 320 X 400, 640 X 200, 640 X 400, HAM 200, HAM 400). --Chuck McManis uucp: {anywhere}!sun!cmcmanis BIX: cmcmanis ARPAnet: cmcmanis@sun.com These opinions are my own and no one elses, but you knew that didn't you.
kim@amdahl.uts.amdahl.com (Kim DeVaughn) (02/06/88)
In article <5381@elroy.Jpl.Nasa.Gov>, rgd059@Mipl3.JPL.Nasa.Gov writes: > > Someone in another message asked about using the digitizer from application > programs. The source code is not included (at least not currently). If you > need the digitizing code, call up SunRize and you can work something out. > The source for Perfect Sound is provided with that package, so they don't > have much problem with releasing such things. This is a good example where an interface to Bill Hawes' ARexx package could give you what is wanted. Granted, both PerfectVision and the other application need to support an ARexx interface, but that is quite easy to do .. really! I've added an ARexx interface to Matt's "dme" editor (v1.29), and the basic interface code was only about 200 lines of code, and added about 1.5K to the executable. Also, it only took maybe 20-25 lines of code added to Matt's original sources to hook it in (which Matt has improved on, I believe). ARexx (in case you don't know), is a general purpose interpreter that executes the REXX programming language, as defined by Colishaw (of IBM Cambridge, as I recall). Certain characteristics of the language make it an ideal general purpose macro processor (any "command" in an ARexx program file that the interpreter itself doesn't understand is passed to a user specifiable "host" program for processing). As such, it makes an excellent "exec" or "script" processor for any application (such as a shell, or an editor, or any other application that processes "commands" [which menu selections can also be thought of]). As an example of a very simple dme/ARexx macro, I've attached "save.dme" to this posting. Now when I want to save a file in dme, I can just hit ESC, and type "save" or "save somefilename", and it happens (I don't have to remember to use "saveold" and "saveas"). ARexx has several other useful capabilities besides being a macro processor, such as providing easy access by any application to user wirtten shared.libraries, but I haven't explored them as yet. I don't intend for this to be an advertisement for ARexx (though it is probably one of the best bargins available), but to point out how easy it really is to provide an external interface into any application, that any similarly interfaced application can take advantage of. And one that provides a *significant* increase in functionality quite cheaply. Since you mention that v1.1 of the s/w is being worked on, I'd like to suggest that you consider this approach. This way *everyone* can have access to PerfectVision's "innards", and you don't need to worry about giving source out, etc. As to who else is working with ARexx ... Charlie Heath has said that the next release of TxEd will support the ARexx interface, and I know that the developer of at least one commercial communications program is considering it. Also you may see a version of the VT100 program that Tony Sumrall has been enhancing supporting it, and possible a version of "shell". Not to mention that Bill Hawes' own WShell/Conman program will support it. And it has been rumored that CBM and Bill have had some discussion about having a future version of the Amiga OS support the ARexx interface directly ... Anyway, enough "preaching" about the virtues of ARexx, but I do think it deserves your serious consideration (as well as consideration by any and all Amiga developers). /kim Here's the "save.dme" example: /* Saves the file with the filename specified by the 1st argument. */ /* If no name is specified, the file is saved with it's original */ /* filename. Arguments following the 1st one are ignored. */ /* */ /* Kim DeVaughn 12/21/87 */ options failat 5 rc = 0 parse arg filename junk if filename = "" then saveold else saveas filename exit rc -- UUCP: kim@amdahl.amdahl.com or: {sun,decwrl,hplabs,pyramid,ihnp4,uunet,oliveb,cbosgd,ames}!amdahl!kim DDD: 408-746-8462 USPS: Amdahl Corp. M/S 249, 1250 E. Arques Av, Sunnyvale, CA 94086 CIS: 76535,25