baer@percival.UUCP (Ken Baer) (01/29/88)
Last Tuesday (1/26) at the January meeting of the Northwest Amiga Group, a couple of Commodore Reps were present to answer questions from users. As usual, they stayed away from answering the biggest questions by answering "I can't talk about that," or "I'm not at liberty to say." But, at one point someone asked "Will 1.3 support Pipes?" They Rep answered "YES, 1.3 will support pipes." This is one of the first real solid confirmed features I've heard about 1.3. He also mention that 1.3 will support an AUX: device, I thought we already had that. It'll be nice to have real piping, and not have to use Execute to do it. -- -Ken Baer. // Amiga: The PC that CAN walk and chew gum at the same time. \X/ USENET - ...tektronix!reed!percival!baer OR baer@percival.UUCP "The Few, The Proud, The Criminally Insane - Oberlin Computer Science" - me.
louie@trantor.umd.edu (Louis A. Mamakos) (01/29/88)
In article <1065@percival.UUCP> baer@percival.UUCP (Ken Baer) writes: >Will 1.3 support Pipes?" They Rep answered "YES, >1.3 will support pipes." This is one of the first real solid confirmed >features I've heard about 1.3. He also mention that 1.3 will support >an AUX: device, I thought we already had that. There are at least 2 different implmentations of pipe available now. Since 1.2 supports pipe, I would hope that 1.3 does too. It would be nice if they provided a shell which did use pipe more transparently than the way that we have to use them now, but they work just fine in any case. Louis A. Mamakos WA3YMH Internet: louie@TRANTOR.UMD.EDU University of Maryland, Computer Science Center - Systems Programming
spencer@eris (Randal m. Spencer [RmS]) (01/30/88)
Recently on *comp.sys.amiga* baer@percival.UUCP (Ken Baer) wrote: ... ...point someone asked "Will 1.3 support Pipes?" They Rep answered "YES, ...1.3 will support pipes." This is one of the first real solid confirmed ... -Ken Baer. Hmmmm.... I am pretty sure that you are mistaken in your interpretation. I put more creed in the rumors that we will see autoboot roms, fast file system, useable printer drivers (ie. fast finally), and IEEE library that supports '881 automatically. Bill Hawes is rumored to be working on his own CLI that will have things like built in pipes (since he rewrote the CLI he can do any pre-parsing that he wants), but don't look to Commodore to rewrite the CLI today, maybe down the road. Problem is that CLI is code that sits in ROM, if they do any mucking with it it would probably only be experimental, like the Resident-CLI (anybody remember that) in the Gamma 1.2 release. I would love to see the CLI rewritten for 1.4 so that you can do things more Unix like. I am glad that we have Environmental variables (thanks Manx!), but I want aliases. Not alias this name = that name, but true this string = that string. I want to do: alias "rm" "rm -i". Even Metacompco Shell doesn't have that. Also along the lines of pipes, if I can do pipes: dir | more, than can't I do more than one command on a line? That would lead to alias "cd" "cd !*;prompt 'pwd'", or whatever! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Randy Spencer 3461 N. Edison St. Arlington VA 22207 (703)241-2140 spencer@mica.berkeley.edu I N F I N I T Y BBS: (415)222-9416 ..ucbvax!mica!spencer s o f t w a r e AAA-WH1M -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=See-=-=-you=-=-=-=in-=-=-=-D.C.-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
hah@mipon3.intel.com (Hans Hansen) (02/01/88)
In article <6788@agate.BERKELEY.EDU> spencer@eris.berkeley.edu (Randal m. Spencer [RmS]) writes:
$Recently on *comp.sys.amiga* baer@percival.UUCP (Ken Baer) wrote:
$...
$...point someone asked "Will 1.3 support Pipes?" They Rep answered "YES,
$...1.3 will support pipes." This is one of the first real solid confirmed
$... -Ken Baer.
$
$Hmmmm.... I am pretty sure that you are mistaken in your interpretation.
Randy, as you were NOT at the NAG meeting and Ken and I were, I will confirm
what Ken said.
1.3 will have built in Pipes, AUX device, improved(!!!) Printer device,
and an improved Hard Disk handling DOS. For A1000 owners there will be
a new kickstart disk and a new Workbench disk. For A500 and A/B2000
owners there will only be a new Workbench disk using the "hooks" built
into the roms to insert the new code which will reside in RAM.
P.S.
This is the first time I have seen you off base... it just might
confirm my suspicions that some of you gurus may be human human after all!
BTW I ask if CA could/would switch their manual format from the little
pamphlets that are now the in thing with CA to a two or three ring binder
that uses UNIX format and is easilly updated. I got a "I will relay your
request to or publications people." but it wasn't sounding too hopeful.
If there is a masive request like the one for LASER printed IFF docs we
all may benifit.
Hansspencer@eris (Randal m. Spencer [RmS]) (02/02/88)
Recently on *comp.sys.amiga* hah@mipon3.UUCP (Hans Hansen) wrote:
...In article <6788@agate.BERKELEY.EDU> spencer@eris.berkeley.edu (Randal m. Spencer [RmS]) writes:
...$Hmmmm.... I am pretty sure that you are mistaken in your interpretation.
...
...Randy, as you were NOT at the NAG meeting and Ken and I were, I will confirm
...what Ken said.
...
...1.3 will have built in Pipes, AUX device, improved(!!!) Printer device,
...P.S.
... This is the first time I have seen you off base... it just might
...confirm my suspicions that some of you gurus may be human human after all!
Wait a minute, I don't want people spread rumors that I'm human! To help to
diswage any such notions let me emphasize what I said in that last message.
I mentioned that I don't think there are going to be pipes in 1.3 and then
I went on to talk about a whole bunch of related stuff and never touched
more on the subject of pipes because there had already been 2 or 3 other
postings to the effect of "But we already have pipes on the Amiga, and we
already have AUX: on the Amiga". Well, MY point was that I can guarantee
that there will not be pipes in the next release of the CLI because it will
be a major rev of the CLI (which is in ROM still) to support more than one
command on a line. Currently the only parsing of the command line is to
take the first word and loadseg that code and send it a startup message
with the whole command line in it. I don't even believe that redirection
is handled by the shell (CLI), I think that is part of the startup code
that you link your program with (but I should check that before I make
any wild claims). So if I can only have one command on a line, it would
be hard for me to construct the command "dir | more".
So at no point was I trying to insinuate that the guys from Commodore
didn't say there would be pipes in 1.3 ( I would have to be a little
brain dead to argue a point when I wasn't even there, you could tell
me -=RJ=- had committed hari-cari on the stage and I couldn't very well
dispute that!). What I said is I don't believe that there will be pipes
(meaning REAL pipes) in 1.3 (Since we already have AmigaDOS pipe devices
it's not really a big deal for Commodore to include them in 1.3)
Now don't anybody say "What's wrong with AmigaDOS pipe devices", because
I am not saying anything is wrong with them. I love to use the command:
tar -cf - * | ckermit -is - -a pipe:file
and then hit receive on VT100 and go to the CLI and type:
tarsplit pipe:file
Pipes are wonderful things, no argument there, it's just Hans, they are
nothing new...
...
...Hanspage@swan.ulowell.edu (Bob Page) (02/03/88)
spencer@eris.berkeley.edu (Randal m. Spencer [RmS]) wrote: >Wait a minute, I don't want people spread rumors that I'm human! Now that's a nasty rumor! :-) >I don't even believe that redirection is handled by the shell (CLI), >I think that is part of the startup code that you link your program >with (but I should check that before I make any wild claims). The CLI sets up the input and output file handles based on your redirection specifiers. If it was in the startup code, you could easily lift the restriction that the redirection qualifiers be the first arguments after the command name. >So if I can only have one command on a line, it would >be hard for me to construct the command "dir | more". It would be easy if the IO were done in the startup code: dir would see the |, exec 'more' with an input file handle the same as dir's output handle, then dir would wait around until more did its thing before both were unloaded. Of course it's a little more complicated than that, but the point is all kinds of things would be possible if the CLI just passed its args to the command's startup code. It doesn't, though -- the CLI does the IO handler startup before the program is invoked. HOWEVER, I agree with Randy's statement that there won't be real (as in recognized/handled by CLI) pipes in workbench 1.3, since it requires a ROM/Kickstart change to modify the CLI. If CBM delivers pipes in WB1.3, it will be in the form of something that lays on top of the console handler, like Conman. Of course, it could be just a device called PIPE: and no support in the CLI, which translates to: run dir >pipe:foo more <pipe:foo which is already available ... just not from CBM. ..Bob -- Bob Page, U of Lowell CS Dept. page@swan.ulowell.edu ulowell!page "I don't know such stuff. I just do eyes." -- from 'Blade Runner'
FATQW@USU.BITNET (02/08/88)
Subject: Re: Commodore confirms 1.3 rumor References: <2598@swan.ulowell.edu> <6825@agate.BERKELEY.EDU> Organization: Absolutely None, Inc. In <2598@swan.ulowell.edu> Bob Page writes: >HOWEVER, I agree with Randy's statement that there won't be real (as >in recognized/handled by CLI) pipes in workbench 1.3, since it >requires a ROM/Kickstart change to modify the CLI. If CBM delivers >pipes in WB1.3, it will be in the form of something that lays on top >of the console handler, like Conman. Just wondering - Cantcha replace the CLI by replacing the CLISegList pointer in the AmigaDOS RootNode? >Of course, it could be just a device called PIPE: and no support in >the CLI, which translates to: > run dir >pipe:foo > more <pipe:foo >which is already available ... just not from CBM. If you replaced the CLI, or created a new shell, or something, it seems you could do this automatically, so dir | more would be translated (by the shell) to run dir >pipe:foo more <pipe:foo or something like that. Just a matter of brains on the part of the shell. Of course, you still have to have the PIPE: device installed. Bryan Bryan Ford //// A computer does what \\\\ Snail: 1790 East 1400 North //// you tell it to do, not \\\\ Logan, UT 84321 \\\XX/// what you want it to do. \\\XX/// Email: FATQW@USU.BITNET \XXXX/ Murphy's Law Calendar 1986 \XXXX/
page@swan.ulowell.edu (Bob Page) (02/09/88)
FATQW@USU.BITNET wrote: >Just wondering - Cantcha replace the CLI by replacing the CLISegList >pointer in the AmigaDOS RootNode? Sure, that's all there is to it. But you have to know the startup magic too, and that's not as easy. Do-able, but sure to break when the next OS comes out. But still do-able. ..Bob -- Bob Page, U of Lowell CS Dept. page@swan.ulowell.edu ulowell!page "I don't know such stuff. I just do eyes." -- from 'Blade Runner'