terry@wsccs.UUCP (terry) (02/23/88)
In article <8255@g.ms.uky.edu>, sean@ms.uky.edu (Sean Casey) writes: > In article <1012@sask.UUCP> long@sask.UUCP (Warren Long) writes: > >> program was quite good, and the request for money was small ($15), the > >> program had a 10 second delay at the beginning and the end of a run. > >> Needless to say, I don't use the program, and would never suggest that > >> anyone else do. > > >I am impressed with the method used, and am surprised at the audacity > >of the above user. The author has found a very clever way of > >protecting his SHAREWARE product, which allows a user to sample the > >product, yet requires an end-user to pay IF and only IF he/she intends > >to use it regularly. > > I disagree. The author has released a product that is virtually > unusable. I would use it once or twice, get disgusted, and toss it > out on general principle. So would most of the people I work with, > and most of my friends. I agree with Sean. Any dork who does that to a program and then has the unmitigated gall to call it "shareware" makes one reconsider the relative merits of The Kent Team, Red Sector, and SCA, virus not withstanding. The proper term is "demo copy". Shareware implies a non-enforced request for donations, *NOT* a demand for money. A "demo copy", on the other hand, is understood to be a "limited" or "disabled" version. Good examples of this are file transfer programs replacing every other packet with the words "Buy this software.... you are using a demo copy.... Buy this ..." and so on. There are some applications where a limitation is not normally a possibility; a delay is a good alternative, but it makes the thing a *DEMO* copy. > The fact is, shareware licenses are unenforceable. People know > they're not going to get caught, so legal threats don't bother them. > They aren't made to feel guilty by whining pleas for money. Or any pleas for money. Over 54% of all software used in business is kyped. Hence the "Software Publishers Association" on the walls of the room I am currently in, where every decent programmer KNOWS that a picture of a CRAY or a UNIX -- LIVE FREE OR DIE poster belongs. Still, I make my money from writing software, and I can see the authors' intent, if not the method he used to impliment it. > Shareware is a noble but stupid idea. It's based on a flawed view of > users. It's almost never worked, and I'm pretty certain that it > never will. I recently (well, last comdex) met the guy who wrote PC-WRITE... he's making gobs of money, so I don't believe the above statement to be true. He said "I don't sell software... software's all up here [picture hand waving in a circular motion, just above the head] ...I sell manuals and support". Works for him. He had 8 people in shipping, last I heard. > If I had a product that I wanted to sell, I'd try to market it > through one of the major vendors, or I'd buy 2x3" ad in Amazing > Computing or Amigaworld and take my chances. You would be. From experience, it takes 6 months in a row for an ad to provide a reasonable amount of draw. You have to wait for the user to want or need the service/product you offer. He will go back to the magazine he saw your ad in and look through it. If it isn't in the first one he picked up, you are instantly a fly-by-night company and he goes elsewhere. > If I wanted people to have the program for free, I'd copyright it and > provide for free redistribution. No point in pretending that users are > something they are not, and no point in looking forward to money that > I'm not going to get. I don't agree with your sentiment, but I welcome any software you want to send me free (o|-). | Terry Lambert UUCP: ...!decvax!utah-cs!century!terry | | @ Century Software or : ...utah-cs!uplherc!sp7040!obie!wsccs!terry | | SLC, Utah | | These opinions are not my companies, but if you find them | | useful, send a $20.00 donation to Brisbane Australia... | | 'There are monkey boys in the facility. Do not be alarmed; you are secure' |
sean@ms.uky.edu (Sean Casey) (02/27/88)
In article <182@wsccs.UUCP> terry@wsccs.UUCP (terry) writes: >> [me] >> Shareware is a noble but stupid idea. It's based on a flawed view of >> users. It's almost never worked, and I'm pretty certain that it >> never will. > > I recently (well, last comdex) met the guy who wrote PC-WRITE... >he's making gobs of money, so I don't believe the above statement to be true. >He said "I don't sell software... software's all up here [picture hand waving >in a circular motion, just above the head] ...I sell manuals and support". >Works for him. He had 8 people in shipping, last I heard. PC-WRITE and PC-FILE are major exceptions to the rule (as a matter of fact, a company I consult for bought a copy of PC-FILE). The fact is, most shareware authors get no contributions at all. I would like to see every fine program rewarded with lots of money and praise, but it just doesn't happen in the real world. I think the PC-FILE and PC-WRITE programs succeed so well exactly because of the reasons stated. The programs have just enough docs to show how useful they are without giving you full control. A registered copy gives you very good printed docs and very good support. >> [me] >> If I had a product that I wanted to sell, I'd try to market it >> through one of the major vendors, or I'd buy 2x3" ad in Amazing >> Computing or Amigaworld and take my chances. > > You would be. From experience, it takes 6 months in a row for an ad >to provide a reasonable amount of draw. You have to wait for the user to want >or need the service/product you offer. He will go back to the magazine he saw >your ad in and look through it. If it isn't in the first one he picked up, you >are instantly a fly-by-night company and he goes elsewhere. Is there a better way? In any case, a reasonable draw is better than none. If there's a method consistently better than the one I outlined, please let us all know. >> If I wanted people to have the program for free, I'd copyright it and >> provide for free redistribution. No point in pretending that users are >> something they are not, and no point in looking forward to money that >> I'm not going to get. > > I don't agree with your sentiment, but I welcome any software you >want to send me free (o|-). I'm working on what I hope to be the best publically distributable version of Empire that anyone has ever seen. Boy oh boy I can tell you right now it's going to take a long time before something really playable is done, and even longer before I'm happy enough with it to give it to the public. Look for it in mid 1989. Sean -- *** Sean Casey sean@ms.uky.edu, sean@ukma.bitnet *** The Empire Maniac {rutgers,uunet,cbosgd}!ukma!sean *** University of Kentucky / Lexington Kentucky / USA *** "Ludo... FRIEND!"
han@Apple.COM (Byron Han, fire fighter) (02/28/88)
Please no more cross posting on this issue. It has been beat to death.
I am sure everyone has their own (valid) opinion on these subjects. Move
it to comp.sys.misc. You are wasting money with the cross posting..
--
------------------------ Byron Han, Communications Tool ----------------------
Apple Computer, Inc. 20525 Mariani Ave, MS 27Y Cupertino, CA 95014
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GENIE:BYRONHAN COMPUSERVE:72167,1664 UUCP:{sun,voder,nsc,decwrl}!apple!handillon@CORY.BERKELEY.EDU (Matt Dillon) (02/28/88)
:> I recently (well, last comdex) met the guy who wrote PC-WRITE... :>he's making gobs of money, so I don't believe the above statement to be true. :>He said "I don't sell software... software's all up here [picture hand waving :>in a circular motion, just above the head] ...I sell manuals and support". :>Works for him. He had 8 people in shipping, last I heard. PC-WRITE is a commercial quality program, not something joe programmer writes in a day, or even a week for that matter. -Matt
brad@looking.UUCP (Brad Templeton) (02/28/88)
In article <182@wsccs.UUCP> terry@wsccs.UUCP writes: > I recently (well, last comdex) met the guy who wrote PC-WRITE... >he's making gobs of money, so I don't believe the above statement to be true. >He said "I don't sell software... software's all up here [picture hand waving >in a circular motion, just above the head] ...I sell manuals and support". >Works for him. He had 8 people in shipping, last I heard. I'm tired of hearing this. That company is the most prosperous of a group that you can count on your fingers. The other 20,000 "shareware" programs have all been dismal financial failures that haven't returned anything, and certainly not something similar to what the author would have made as a programmer or consultant in regular employment. As he points out, it's not even the shareware concept that's the success. It's selling the manuals and support. I daresay there are many companies selling training, books and support for Lotus 1-2-3 or MS-DOS that have made more money than anybody's made from shareware. -- Brad Templeton, Looking Glass Software Ltd. - Waterloo, Ontario 519/884-7473