steve@dcdwest.UUCP (Steve Meloche) (03/03/88)
Hello again! Rather than become discouraged at the lack of responses
to my previous postings, I will forge on again with a new question:
WARNING: The following is not intended to further the argumentation about
copy protection. It is *just* a request for information. I have pretty well
made up my mind on the subject, and you have too. RIGHT? Anyway. . . .
I am a leader in our churches high school program, and really enjoy
working with the youth in the club. One thing that became apparent to me
very early was that most of them were rabid pirates. When the meetings
were at my house, they would bring stacks of games and programs to run on
my c64. A good percentage of them were on unmarked disks with photocopied
docs (if any at all). When I moved up to the Amiga, some of them did also.
("hey Dad! You should see Steve's neat computer - can we get one too?").
Early last year, feeling like an accomplice, we requested them to PLEASE
leave the illegal software at home. I expressed my reservations on the
subject and everything was hunky-dory. There were no hard feelings, and
everybody seemed to understand.
Well, of course, if it had ended there, I wouldn't be writing this
article. One of the kids (the one with the Amiga) has been accumulating huge
stacks of nifty, EXPENSIVE software - often before it was released. Well,
other than an occasional reminder that I didn't think it was right, I was
prepared to let it slide, but he keeps bringing the stuff over to my house to
use. I have been pondering how to gracefully deal with the subject but the
tactics that I have tried so far haven't worked. To my exhortations he has
made the following replies:
1. These are just borrowed from a friend (of couse the friend is a pirate and
he never has had to give back his "borrowed" copies).
2. It's o.k.! These are from an employee of the company, so it was o.k. for
him to give me a copy (yeah, sure - And the company would just *love* to
find out how their software is getting out, I bet!)
3. These copies (last week it was Arkanoids, Animate-3d, and a couple of other
games) I got from my high school, which has a licence to copy software.
4. A friend of the family (not a computer owner) went downtown to a
government office and did *two days* of research about the software laws
and found out that all of MY software is legal!
Now some people are going to say "Stop being such a wimp! He's taking
you for a ride! Tell the stinkin' pirate c-64 scum to take a hike - and
then give the police the names of all of his friends!" This, while it would
give me lovely feelings of righteous indignation, would not be my choice,
because he really seems to believe these excuses.
Others will want to flame, saying that copy protection is immoral and he
wasn't stealing because he wouldn't have bought that software anyway. Please,
the morality of the issue is not my question here. Like I said, I have
already decided what my beliefs are on the issue. I just want to know: can
high schools (for the performing arts, ala FAME, no less) get licences to
just copy any software for the students' use? What, OFFICIALLY, is the law
concerning owning software that SOMEONE ELSE has copied? (A lot of his
pirated stuff came with his Amiga when he bought it used.) Am I correct in
my assumption that employees of software companies (for the most part) are
*not* allowed to just give copies of their company's latest and greatest
software to their friends (and their friends, etc., etc.)?
Any replies to help clear this issue up for me would be greatly appre-
ciated, as I would like to avoid drastic or arrogant sounding measures. Other-
wise, he's a great kid and pretty well has his act together. I would just
like to respond factually to these statements that I don't *think* are true.
TIA (thanks in advance), Steven Meloche * who still can't figure *
_____ _____ _____ * out his MICROCOM modem! *
| ` | ' ` | ' ITT Defense Communications Division
| | | San Diego, CA
__|__ | | steve!dcdwest!ucsdhub!...itkin@stsci.EDU (Elliot Itkin) (03/04/88)
in article <287@dcdwest.UUCP>, steve@dcdwest.UUCP (Steve Meloche) says:
[long article about a teenage pirate using his computer]
If you think that pirating is wrong, consider what you would do
with the same child if we were talking about Rolex watches, gold chains,
and expensive jewelry. "Well, I just borrowed this from a friend."
I don't think you have to be a genius to know that a software company
is not going to give a high school permission to copy its software and
then give it away.
Nor does it take a lawyer to figure out that an employee can not give
away his company's soon to be released products.
Your article sounded so sincere and innocent, it is hard to tell
you that you may be terminally naive. The fact that his stories
keep changing, that he is the only one with all the software, etc.,
tell me that he is a crook. Who knows where he is stealing it from
but believe me, HE KNOWS he is stealing it.
Think about my first paragraph again. Think about what would you
say to this person if it was a Corvette he suddenly showed up with.
You know he is stealing it or you wouldn't have written such a long
article with so many protestations ("He is such a good kid.").
You have to decide whether you want to condone his activity or not.
It just depends on which is more important to you, your morals or
his friendship.
--
Elliot S. Itkin Space Telescope Science Institute, Baltimore, MD 21218
UUCP: {arizona,decvax,hao,ihnp4}!noao!stsci!itkin
ARPA: itkin@stsci.edu
SPAN: {SCIVAX,KEPLER}::ITKINkim@amdahl.uts.amdahl.com (Kim DeVaughn) (03/04/88)
[ I can't stand it no more! ] In article <287@dcdwest.UUCP>, steve@dcdwest.UUCP (Steve Meloche) writes: > > Hello again! Rather than become discouraged at the lack of responses > to my previous postings, I will forge on again with a new question: > > WARNING: The following is not intended to further the argumentation about > copy protection. It is *just* a request for information. I have pretty well > made up my mind on the subject, and you have too. RIGHT? Anyway. . . . This really doesn't have much to do with the Amiga, since the individual that is the subject of your posting would almost certainly do the same thing on a Mac/ST/PClone/whatever. So ... how about taking your discussion to comp.misc, comp.legal, or some other forum that is more appropriate? At least you didn't cross-post to 27 different news.groups, and I thank you for that! /kim P.S. Nothing personal, Steve. You just happened to make the posting that sent me over my threshhold of tolerance ... -- UUCP: kim@amdahl.amdahl.com or: {sun,decwrl,hplabs,pyramid,ihnp4,uunet,oliveb,cbosgd,ames}!amdahl!kim DDD: 408-746-8462 USPS: Amdahl Corp. M/S 249, 1250 E. Arques Av, Sunnyvale, CA 94086 CIS: 76535,25
bilbo@pnet02.cts.com (Bill Daggett) (03/07/88)
Ah, I think your friend at best is a liar. Ask him to prove he has a right to
any of the software he has brought over on his own disks. I am not going to
prove any of this to you but after 8 years of computing and growing up with
the piracy issue not one of the kids claims is legal. For instance, sight
licensing means a school or company can make duplications for their computers
ONLY. It doesn't mean you can make copies on their machines to distribute all
over the neiborhood or take home to see if you like the program and go out and
buy it the next day. I dare say that any software company employee who gives
out a software program to a friend to show off better have it in writing or
that employee might be out of a job.
I suggest you help teach this person Truth - show him how he may be hurting
the software market and what he is doing is not honest or Christian. Finally,
I think there is so much good Public Domain stuff for the Amiga for someone
learning about computers to play with that the commercial stuff (unless we are
talking about some of the super games) is unecessary.
You have a hell of a task on your hands friend...
Bill
UUCP: {ihnp4!scgvaxd!cadovax rutgers!marque}!gryphon!pnet02!bilbo
INET: bilbo@pnet02.cts.comcampbell@cbmvax.UUCP (John Campbell SW) (03/08/88)
Quick response without long opinions: 1) Are high schools authorized to copy software? Yes, but certainly NOT the software you mentioned. Site licenses are occasionally made, but never for recreational software. It is also only for use within the school premises during school time, not for the students, their relatives, friends, etc... An example might be Logo, which some software manufacturers have chosen to enter into site licenses. 2) What is the legality of receiving pirated software, for example with the purchase of a used machine? Common sense dictates here. What would your situation be if the hardware was stolen, and you knew about it? The answer is that you would be guilty of receiving stolen property. The same would hold true for pirated software, since it is in a sense stolen property. 3) Can employees of software companies give out software to their friends? Strictly speaking, since the employees do not generally own the software, even if they wrote it, they do not have the right to give out copies. Similiarly, they do not have the right to give out the companies computers, desk supplies, or anything else they might consider to be theirs. Companies do often approve of using friends etc... as beta-testers to clean up buggy software. This is how so much beta-software ends up being falsely considered public domain, just because the company decided to put "demo copy" on the program. Just BTW, I am against copy protection and vehemently against pirates. Please, no flames, I don't have the time for it an abestos is considered to be a health hazard. John Campbell Worlwide Software and Support Manager Commodore International Limited I make up my own opinions, Commodore takes none of the credit or blaim.