ljc@otter.hple.hp.com (Lee Carter) (02/26/88)
And Lo!
A voice in the wilderness cried..
HELP!!!!!!!!!!!
Dear fellow Amiga-users and net people.
I have a question, which no doubt, some of you wonderful (creep) intelligent
(smarm smarm) people will be able to answer.
I am a musician who finds the Amiga perfect for composing music on (using
DMCS.)
Now, what I would like to do is use DMCS to play a backing track whilst I
play guitar live over the top.
The backing track would consist of a melody line (no problem), a bass line
(again no problem), and drums - PROBLEM!!
All drum sounds I have tried - mostly my own samples - sound, well, like,
really muffled and wooley - like the sound is coming from a cheap tape recorder
with a pillow over the speaker - y'know what I mean.
What I want to know is how can I get GOOD sounding drum samples.
How come everything else I sample sounds great BUT NOT DRUMS.
Oh , by the way, I am using a 'Perfect Sound' sampler through 'Aegis Audio-
master', sampling at 15K.
PLEEEEEEZE help.
Thank you.
BE PURE*BE VIGILANT*BEHAVE
*******************************************************************************
ljc@hplb.csnet | Lee Carter,
ljc%hplb.csnet@csnet-relay.arpa | Hewlett-Packard Labs,
...!mcvax!ukc!hplb!ljc | Bristol, England.
******************************************************************************* WUNTOOFREEFORR!!!! - Joey Ramonekenchiu@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Kenneth Chiu) (02/28/88)
In article <620005@otter.hple.hp.com> ljc@otter.hple.hp.com (Lee Carter) writes: >What I want to know is how can I get GOOD sounding drum samples. >How come everything else I sample sounds great BUT NOT DRUMS. Well, first remember the Amiga is NOT a professional sampler. It also has low-pass filter to attenuate aliasing noise. This filter can be physically removed, but the aliasing may bother you. Try playing around with a 500/2000 (the filter can be removed through software). I don't know why drums sound so much worse. Maybe just some psychoacoustical subjectivity or something. Or, if you're sampling snare drums or cymbals, the most important part of the spectrum may be at or near the cut-off frequency. Ken Chiu
ejkst@cisunx.UUCP (Eric J. Kennedy) (02/28/88)
In article <620005@otter.hple.hp.com>, ljc@otter.hple.hp.com (Lee Carter) writes: > What I want to know is how can I get GOOD sounding drum samples. > How come everything else I sample sounds great BUT NOT DRUMS. > > Oh , by the way, I am using a 'Perfect Sound' sampler through 'Aegis Audio- > master', sampling at 15K. ^^^ ...which corresponds to 7.5 K max frequency, which I'll bet is not nearly enough for realistic drum sounds. heck, the fundamental frequency of a tight snare drum is probably over 7.5K, what about all of the overtones? Forget it. See if you can disable the audio filter, and then try samping at 24K, which I think is the max for your digitizer. -- ------------ Eric Kennedy ejkst@cisunx.UUCP
cmcmanis%pepper@Sun.COM (Chuck McManis) (03/01/88)
In article <620005@otter.hple.hp.com> ljc@otter.hple.hp.com (Lee Carter) writes: > All drum sounds I have tried - mostly my own samples - sound, well, like, > really muffled and wooley - like the sound is coming from a cheap tape > recorder with a pillow over the speaker - y'know what I mean. I know what you mean. It is called "Low Pass Filter" and chops everything under 7Khz down by 3db or more. A couple of suggestions : If you are using the Amiga 500 or 2000 turn off the filter with a program that extinguishes the Power LED. I believe there is one on the 2000 workbench disk. If not, as Bryce kindly and maybe he will post his version again. If you are using an Amiga 1000, get a copy of the schematics (or a copy of cbmvax!grr :-)) and put shorting wires across the filter network on the output stage of the 1000. That zaps the filter as well. The only problem with these techniques is that now you will also get aliasing noise from samples that are near the Nyquist frequency. So you need to be aware of that as well. Or you could spring for an Alesis HR-16 or something and have the drums generated that way. :-) --Chuck McManis uucp: {anywhere}!sun!cmcmanis BIX: cmcmanis ARPAnet: cmcmanis@sun.com These opinions are my own and no one elses, but you knew that didn't you.
karl@sugar.UUCP (Karl Lehenbauer) (03/06/88)
In article <7235@cisunx.UUCP>, ejkst@cisunx.UUCP (Eric J. Kennedy) writes: > In article <620005@otter.hple.hp.com>, ljc@otter.hple.hp.com (Lee Carter) writes: > > What I want to know is how can I get GOOD sounding drum samples. > > How come everything else I sample sounds great BUT NOT DRUMS. > > > > Oh , by the way, I am using a 'Perfect Sound' sampler through 'Aegis Audio- > > master', sampling at 15K. > ^^^ > ...which corresponds to 7.5 K max frequency, which I'll bet is not > nearly enough for realistic drum sounds. heck, the fundamental > frequency of a tight snare drum is probably over 7.5K, what about all of > the overtones? Forget it. Yes, you can raise your sampling rate and justify it on the 500 and 2000, with their software-switch-offable 7.5K filters. (You can also hack your 1000s to do it; that's been described elsewhere.) Oh yeah, also regarding that filter, remember that it starts cutting off the sound long before reaching 7.5K - another good reason to turn it off for hi fi. With regard to kick drums, you don't need anywhere near 15K. The older- style drum machines I know of, the Linn and the Drumtraks, have only a 4K PROM for the kick, an 8K for everything else except for 32K for the crash and ride cymbals. I find kick drums, bass guitar and such to sample pretty well, even at under a 10K rate. No way is the fundamental of a tight snare over 7.5K. 7.5K is really quite a high frequency in the audio spectrum, only an octave and a third away from being inaudible. (You need to hear it all for it to be really high fi, of course.) With respect to cymbals, forget it. They produce so much sound all over the spectrum that you're just not going to get a good cymbal sample. Now, the question arises, how can you get better samples when sampling? For one thing, what is the source of the sound? For an indredibly good source of drum samples, I reccommend the Complete Sound Library, a compact disk containing hundreds of drum sounds and meant for sampling. You should be able to get it at your music dealer. If you're doing acoustic sampling, what kind of microphone are you using? The difference in quality between a $150 microphone and a $15 one is extraordinary. Finally, outboard gear can significantly improve the sample quality. I find that running the sound through a 31-band equalizer and fiddling with the EQ can make the samples sound a lot better. A reverb can also be very useful, although it tends to increase sample size because you end up wanting to sample the decay out to the end. Even if you don't have big outboard gear, something with tone controls that affect a line out such as a small mixer or preamp will help a lot. -- "Lack of skill dictates economy of style." - Joey Ramone ..!uunet!nuchat!sugar!karl, Unix BBS (713) 438-5018
ejkst@cisunx.UUCP (Eric J. Kennedy) (03/08/88)
In article <1528@sugar.UUCP>, karl@sugar.UUCP (Karl Lehenbauer) writes: > No way is the fundamental of a tight snare over 7.5K. 7.5K is really > quite a high frequency in the audio spectrum, only an octave and a third > away from being inaudible. (You need to hear it all for it to be really > high fi, of course.) You've obviously never heard me play. :-> Ok, maybe not the fundamental of the drum heads, but for the gut on the bottom head, I'll bet it's up there. Besides, ever notice the sound of the snare drum on, say, the dealer instrument demo disks or a DMCS song? The drum is tuned _really_ low, the fat, sloppy sound of a second rate, low budget rock band. And the sampled sound quality still stinks. Try sampling a good drum corps, sometime. We're talking _tight_ drum heads. Sounds awful. I know. I've done it. -- ------------ Eric Kennedy ejkst@cisunx.UUCP