craig@unicus.UUCP (Craig D. Hubley) (03/07/88)
Porting Project Xanadu to the Amiga, if possible, is *the right thing*.
We'd get compatibility with a larger set of Xanadu tools (eventually),
and with users of other machines (even more important). I don't think
that standardizing on Xanadu would restrict the unique features of the
Amiga, quite the contrary:
The Amiga has a fast window system with hardware support.
Suns and Macs, the other Xanadu machines, don't.
They have slooowwwww wwwwwwwinnnnnndowwwwwwwws.
The Amiga has a lightweight message-passing multitasking OS.
Suns multitask, message through pipes, and use Unix.
Macs fake-multitask, don't message, and don't use Unix.
So Xanadu already wants to work on non-Unix machines,
and both of these machines have heavier OS overhead.
The Amiga has a set of IFF standards for data.
The Sun has Suntools and its standards, NeWS if you
want the overhead, X if you like monolithic goo.
The Mac has no such thing, though you are supposed
to be able to read MacWrite files, etc, and most
applications are good about supporting PostScript.
The Amiga has cheap high-resolution colour.
An A500 with a FlickerFixer is one hell of a lot
cheaper than a colour Sun or a Mac II.
The Amiga supports video, and can incorporate this in hypertext.
The Sun and Mac never will. The Mac II might someday,
but the Amiga has a mighty headstart.
The Amiga is by far the cheapest of the three machines.
There are a few disadvantages such as lack of a fully-supported network,
but the points above far outweight them.
So the question:
Would someone who has access to alt.hypertext or like sources please post
an update informing us who don't:
What's the status of Project Xanadu ?
What's the status of its sources ?
Would it be easier to port the Mac or the Sun version ?
What are the terms to access and port and distribute the source?
I assume from correspondence that it is PD or close to it.
Does any database of objects in Xanadu format exist ?
Is there such a thing as a `Xanadu format' ?
Is there anything about Xanadu standards or conventions
that would preclude fully using the Amiga environment ?
And, for the people harping about Amigas in education, the answer:
Up to the eighth grade or so, read Seymour Papert's `Mindstorms'
and give them Logo. If you have to convince someone not to buy PeeCees
or something, give them that book and leave them alone. If they don't
understand it, they'll never understand anything. Then give it to
their supervisors, and they'll be fired for not understanding it.
Repeat ad nauseum until everyone is fired or everyone is using Logo.
Refer the pedantic to the Logo school Seymour Papert runs in Boston,
where ten year old kids built robots that do real work, in class.
If there's no decent Logo for Amigas, there should be, otherwise
it doesn't deserve to get into a school, except to replace a non-Logo machine.
If we ever port this Xanadu thing, then we may have something...
For high-school, keep using Logo, since its actually as powerful as Lisp,
but introduce procedural languages like C and yes, even Pascal, since
they may need it in University :-). Leave BASIC in hell where it belongs.
Actually, ignore that and use whatever's current on the microcomputers
of the day, be it C++ or Common Lisp or Smalltalk or MicroSoft Snobol.
Being able to transfer knowledge to practical projects at the highschool
level is far more important than pedantic concerns about the language used.
Remember that by the time they graduate, the languages will all have changed.
(Please follow this discussion up to comp.edu, where it belongs.
I don't think that discussion excludes elementary and high school education.)
So, where's that Xanadu source?
Craig Hubley, Unicus Corporation, Toronto, Ont.
craig@Unicus.COM (Internet)
{uunet!mnetor, utzoo!utcsri}!unicus!craig (dumb uucp)
mnetor!unicus!craig@uunet.uu.net (dumb arpa)viking@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu (03/10/88)
/* Written 12:16 pm Mar 7, 1988 by craig@unicus in iuvax:comp.sys.amiga */ > For high-school, keep using Logo, since its actually as powerful as Lisp, > but introduce procedural languages like C and yes, even Pascal, since > they may need it in University :-). Actually, they'll need Pascal for their SAT advanced placement test in computer science. :-) > (Please follow this discussion up to comp.edu, where it belongs. > I don't think that discussion excludes elementary and high school > education.) OK, OK...sorry! :-) Maybe we can follow up WHY they need Pascal in comp.edu. I agree with a lot of what you're saying, however. The growth and acceptance of 'true' hypertext, can really be aided by the availability of powerful and inexpensive workstations. The Amiga certainly qualifies. Now, if we can *just* get an inexpensive device to store a gigibyte or more of information, I can start *using* my 'electronic memex'! Look for those magneto/optical drives in the next few years.... Joni Backstrom "Yah sure...we gonna have fun, you bet!" Computer Science Department Indiana University ARPA: viking@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu Bloomington, IN 47405 UUCP: {pyramid,ihnp4,pur-ee,rutgers}!iuvax!viking
peter@nuchat.UUCP (Peter da Silva) (03/13/88)
In article <2307@unicus.UUCP>, craig@unicus.UUCP (Craig D. Hubley) writes: > Porting Project Xanadu to the Amiga, if possible, is *the right thing*. I agree. Let's just change that "possible" to "practical". If it turns out that Xanadu has flaws that make it useless on (say) a floppy based system it might be possible to port it but it wouldn't be practical. Let's do hypertext right. As an aside, has anyone heard anything about the effort to generate an IFF format for 3-d (and hopefully other) object databases? -- -- a clone of Peter (have you hugged your wolf today) da Silva `-_-' -- normally ...!hoptoad!academ!uhnix1!sugar!peter U -- Disclaimer: These aren't mere opinions... these are *values*.