[net.music] Led Zeppelin fans and Jimmy Page

showard@udenva.UUCP (showard) (09/24/85)

> Hello, out there!  I'm new to this mail stuff and I'd like to know if there
> are any hardcore (or even not-so-hard-core) Zeppelin fans, especially ones who 
> think Jimmy Page is the greatest thing on strings, out there in newsland.  I would 
> really like to chat with you.  Just leave a reply so I can get back to you.

  How about people who think that Jimmy Page was a very good guitar player who
has been riding on his reputation for about 5 years?  Anyone who saw the Plant-
Page reunion (why wasn't JPJ there?) on Live Aid knows what I'm talking about.

  I do, however, feel that Led Zeppelin was one of the few bands who made the
seventies more than just fragments of the sixties (musically speaking of course)

  Their best songs (in my not-so-humble opinion) were "Fool in the Rain" and
"I'm Gonna Crawl" from "In Through the Out Door,"  "Dazed and Confused" from
the first album, and "Misty Mountain Hop" from the fourth.  Notice which song
is deliberately eliminated, due mostly to over-exposure.

  Something for LZ fans to think about:  To what extent do you agree with the
Rolling Stone Book of Rock Lists that the first album was "recycled Jeff Beck
Group"?

  --Mr. Blore, the DJ who would not die
  -- ..udenva!showard
    "I ain't gonna go by   bus ..."

ccs020@ucdavis.UUCP (Kevin Chu) (09/26/85)

[...]
>   How about people who think that Jimmy Page was a very good guitar player who
> has been riding on his reputation for about 5 years? Anyone who saw the Plant-
> Page reunion (why wasn't JPJ there?) on Live Aid knows what I'm talking about.
> 
John Paul Jones was there.  He played bass and keyboards like the old days.

I have heard (not from reliable sources) that they plan to continue this
reunion with Tony Thompson as drummer.  Thompson and Phil Collins both played
drums at Live-Aid.

And before someone jumps all over me, I know that Robert Plant said he would
never do this again, but I am just repeating what I heard. 

Roger Daltry also said he would never sing with The Who again, too.

--Kevin Chu
..ucbvax!ucdavis!vega!ccs020

/ex

andrew@grkermi.UUCP (Andrew W. Rogers) (09/27/85)

In article <862@udenva.UUCP> showard@udenva.UUCP (showard) writes:
>>I'd like to know if there are any hardcore Zeppelin fans, especially ones  
>>who think Jimmy Page is the greatest thing on strings...
>
>  How about people who think that Jimmy Page was a very good guitar player
>who has been riding on his reputation for about 5 years?  Anyone who saw the 
>Plant-Page reunion (why wasn't JPJ there?) on Live Aid knows what I'm talking 
>about.

Anyone who's heard The Firm knows what you're talking about, too.  Hasn't done
much for Paul Rodgers' reputation either (assuming you think he had one)!

I didn't see Live Aid, so I wasn't aware of JPJ's absence... who took his
place?  And once and for all, just who did play drums?

>  I do, however, feel that Led Zeppelin was one of the few bands who made the
> 70's more than just fragments of the 60's (musically speaking of course).
>
>  Their best songs (in my not-so-humble opinion) were "Fool in the Rain" and
>"I'm Gonna Crawl" from "In Through the Out Door,"  "Dazed and Confused" from
>the first album, and "Misty Mountain Hop" from the fourth.  Notice which song
>is deliberately eliminated, due mostly to over-exposure.

Speaking of a certain over-exposed tune... I was a college DJ circa '72-'73,
and when someone would request you-know-what, I'd play the Neil Sedaka song
of the same title!  

>  Something for LZ fans to think about:  To what extent do you agree with the
>Rolling Stone Book of Rock Lists that the first album was "recycled Jeff Beck
>Group"?

Consider John Mendelsohn's RS review of the first album (quoted from memory):

"The formula seems to be: take an ex-Yardbirds guitarist, add a pretty
soul-belter who can do a good spade impression and a competent rhythm
section...  Led Zeppelin has little to offer that its twin, the Jeff Beck
Group, hasn't already done better..."

Let's see... Page wrote "Beck's Bolero", JPJ played organ on "Old Man River",
and both groups covered "You Shook Me", a Willie Dixon tune that is so 
overdone that even Zep didn't dare to claim they had written it!  Don't know
if I'd call them "twins", though...

Speaking of "recycling", you could say that "Dazed and Confused" was
recycled Jake Holmes (who had performed a very similar song called "I'm
Confused" as the opening act for the latter-day Yardbirds), or that
"How Many More Times" is a recycling of God-knows-who's "How Many More
Years" and Albert King's "The Hunter", plus a snatch of "Beck's Bolero".

Of course, Willie Dixon sued LZ for allegedly Page-iarizing a tune of his
for "Whole Lotta Love"... and wasn't it nice of P,P,J,&B to give Memphis
Minnie 1/5 of the writing credit for a tune she came up with before any
of them were born?  I'm told that "Boogie With Stu" is a note-for-note
copy of some 50's tune (I don't recall which).  "Bring It On Home" is
"borrowed" from Sonny Boy Williamson...

Andrew W. Rogers


PS: Not to brag or anything, but I heard Zep on their second or third US
date (Aerodrome, Schenectady NY)!

kimery@wdl1.UUCP (09/28/85)

/***** wdl1:net.music / udenva!showard /  2:09 pm  Sep 23, 1985*/
Subject: Re: Led Zeppelin fans and Jimmy Page

> Hello, out there!  I'm new to this mail stuff and I'd like to know if there
> are any hardcore (or even not-so-hard-core) Zeppelin fans, especially ones who 
> think Jimmy Page is the greatest thing on strings, out there in newsland.  I would 
> really like to chat with you.  Just leave a reply so I can get back to you.

  How about people who think that Jimmy Page was a very good guitar player who
has been riding on his reputation for about 5 years?  Anyone who saw the Plant-
Page reunion (why wasn't JPJ there?) on Live Aid knows what I'm talking about.

John Paul Jones WAS there......

As for Jimmy Page riding his reputation, no, I don't see it quite that way.

I suppose next you will try to compare him to the most :-) innovative
guitarist in the world.....Eddie Van Halen..(GOD IS HE BORING!)

By the way the one that has riding his repuation for a while is Jimmy
Hendrix.   :-).

				Sam

paul@helens.UUCP (Paul Brownlow @ Data I/O -- Redmond, WA) (10/01/85)

> 
>   How about people who think that Jimmy Page was a very good guitar player who
> has been riding on his reputation for about 5 years?  Anyone who saw the Plant-
> Page reunion (why wasn't JPJ there?) on Live Aid knows what I'm talking about.
> 
>   --Mr. Blore, the DJ who would not die
>   -- ..udenva!showard
>     "I ain't gonna go by   bus ..."

Not to disagree, but just to correct the facts.  John Paul Jones *did* play
at the Live Aid reunion in Philly - they just didn't show him very much.  He
was that fat, ugly guy playing bass.  Phil Collins and Tony Thompson (Power
Station) were on drums.  With the exception of the drummers, I thought the
group sounded like a bad pub band.  Page was so messed up he could barely
stand, let alone play guitar.

Go ahead, flame me -- I used to be a LZ fan about a dozen years ago, but
not any more.

-- 
...."You're never alone with a schizophrenic."

lp102911@sjuvax.UUCP (palena) (10/07/85)

In article <96@ucdavis.UUCP> ccs020@ucdavis.UUCP (Kevin Chu) writes:
>
>[...]
>>   How about people who think that Jimmy Page was a very good guitar player who
>> has been riding on his reputation for about 5 years? Anyone who saw the Plant-
>> Page reunion (why wasn't JPJ there?) on Live Aid knows what I'm talking about.

                 I saw Santana,Knopfler, and heard Clapton at Live-Aid.I
      see nothing wrong with saying that Page held his own against all of
      these heavyweights.Musically,Live-Aid wasn't a spectacular event.In
      this context I don't feel it fair to denounce Page because he didn't
      tear the place down.For him the days of the screaming Marshall/Les-
      Paul are over,but the fact remains that he is still one of rock's most
      distinctive guitarists and anyone who claims that Mark Knopfler is
      one of the greats,I feel, is compelled to say that Page is a great as
      well.Both are blues-based with distinctive tones and twists and per-
      sonally, I think Page is better.(NO FLAMES ON THIS POINT).


              I drew one strong conclusion about Jimmy Page from Live-Aid;
      he'd better see a doctor or he isn't long for this world.I had to pinch
      myself to convince myself I wasn't seeing his ghost.


                                         Larry Palena
                                         sjuvax/lp102911

rlr@pyuxd.UUCP (Rich Rosen) (10/10/85)

> I saw Santana,Knopfler, and heard Clapton at Live-Aid.  I see nothing wrong
> with saying that Page held his own against all of these heavyweights.

Perhaps this says more about the status of those "heavyweights" than anything
else... :-?
-- 
"There!  I've run rings 'round you logically!"
"Oh, intercourse the penguin!"			Rich Rosen    ihnp4!pyuxd!rlr

lp102911@sjuvax.UUCP (palena) (10/15/85)

In article <1861@pyuxd.UUCP> rlr@pyuxd.UUCP (Rich Rosen) writes:
>> I saw Santana,Knopfler, and heard Clapton at Live-Aid.  I see nothing wrong
>> with saying that Page held his own against all of these heavyweights.
>
>Perhaps this says more about the status of those "heavyweights" than anything
>else... :-?
>-- 
>"There!  I've run rings 'round you logically!"
>"Oh, intercourse the penguin!"			Rich Rosen    ihnp4!pyuxd!rlr




              Yeah,I love follow-ups.Somebody takes two lines from your 
          article,comes up with a cute rebuttal,and "runs rings 'round...etc."
          I guess when you're presented with the opportunity to see Mick Jagger
          trip over himself in a video of the 724th remake of "Dancin' in the
          Streets",and then later (live,no less),attempt a rape of Tina Turner,
          a couple of old farts like Page and Plant just won't do.I mean who
          cares if it was the last time that "Stairway to Heaven" may ever be
          performed by the two.I mean if Jones is a bit overweight that just
          ruins the whole experience.

                                  Just another timely contribution to
                                        net.KateBush,

                                          Larry Palena,
                                          St. Joseph's Univ.

{ astrovax | allegra | bpa | burdvax } !sjuvax!lp102911

rlr@pyuxd.UUCP (Rich Rosen) (10/18/85)

>>> I saw Santana,Knopfler, and heard Clapton at Live-Aid.  I see nothing wrong
>>> with saying that Page held his own against all of these heavyweights.

>>Perhaps this says more about the status of those "heavyweights" than anything
>>else... :-?

>            Yeah,I love follow-ups.Somebody takes two lines from your 
>        article,comes up with a cute rebuttal,and "runs rings 'round...etc."
>        I guess when you're presented with the opportunity to see Mick Jagger
>        trip over himself in a video of the 724th remake of "Dancin' in the
>        Streets",and then later (live,no less),attempt a rape of Tina Turner,
>        a couple of old farts like Page and Plant just won't do.

Not when they simply weren't up to snuff.  They're not "great" just because
you say they're great, or because you like to think they're great, or because
they were great.  (I really have no idea what real point Mr. Palena is trying
to make.)  Jimmy Page has a face and brain that have essentially turned to
liquid as a result of overuse of a certain drug.  It shows in his playing.
The man is simply not the great guitarist he was when he recorded "Rock and
Roll",  "Communications Breakdown", "Heartbreaker", "Immigrant Song", "The
Crunge".  Nor is Clapton the same guitarist he was when he recorded "Layla",
"Tales of Brave Ulysses", "Little Wing", etc.  To say that they are is to
denigrate the people who are really guitarists today.  What Jagger does is
irrelevant, since if anything he qualifies as an even older fart.

> I mean who cares if it was the last time that "Stairway to Heaven" may ever
> be performed by the two.

If it wasn't performed well, indeed, who cares?  (I might even be tempted to
say "Good riddance" after that performance.)  Hey, I watched it too and was
impressed that they got back together and all, but on second watching I found
the whole set to be wanting.

>	 I mean if Jones is a bit overweight that just ruins the whole
> 	 experience.

Strange set of values, there.  I didn't like it merely because I didn't like
the performance.  Jones' obesity (which I didn't notice and haven't noticed
yet in seeing interviews of him, so I have no idea what you're talking about)
was and is a non-issue.

>                                   Just another timely contribution to
>                                         net.KateBush,
>                                           Larry Palena,

It's apparent where this person is coming from.
-- 
"Meanwhile, I was still thinking..."
				Rich Rosen  ihnp4!pyuxd!rlr

lp102911@sjuvax.UUCP (palena) (10/23/85)

In article <1896@pyuxd.UUCP> rlr@pyuxd.UUCP (Rich Rosen) writes:
>>            Yeah,I love follow-ups.Somebody takes two lines from your 
>>        article,comes up with a cute rebuttal,and "runs rings 'round...etc."
                 ...etc...
>
>Not when they simply weren't up to snuff.  They're not "great" just because
>you say they're great, or because you like to think they're great, or because
>they were great.  (I really have no idea what real point Mr. Palena is trying
>to make.)  Jimmy Page has a face and brain that have essentially turned to
>liquid as a result of overuse of a certain drug.  It shows in his playing.

          ...I don't make points,I SCORE them.I learned my debating technique
          at the Don Rickles School of Oratory and Rhetoric.Page doesn't look
          the way he did because of drugs.That's just naivete' in the worst.
          The fact is that he has always been of frail health.He turned down
          his first chance to join the Yardbirds because he didn't think he 
          could survive the arduous touring.His terrible physical condition
          is the result of his aggravating this with years and years of work-
          ing with Zeppelin.He was involved in heroin,but kicked the habit 
          shortly after Bonham's death.If you don't believe this,all I can say
          is that he has always looked that way,for at least the last six years.

>The man is simply not the great guitarist he was when he recorded "Rock and
>Roll",  "Communications Breakdown", "Heartbreaker", "Immigrant Song", "The
>Crunge".  Nor is Clapton the same guitarist he was when he recorded "Layla",

           ...while your ability to name Zeppelin tunes in admirable,your
           opinion of Page still sucks and shows your ignorance."Immigrant
           Song" is simply an octave lick with a few sliding bar-chords.He 
           can probably play that song as well today as he did in 1970...

>"Tales of Brave Ulysses", "Little Wing", etc.  To say that they are is to
>denigrate the people who are really guitarists today.

           ..."the people who are really guitarists today" play the guitar
           with their index fingers instead of picks.Most of them owe a great
           deal to Page...
>
>>	 I mean who
>>        cares if it was the last time that "Stairway to Heaven" may ever be
>>        performed by the two.
>
>If it wasn't performed well, indeed, who cares?
>

         ...that song was a cultural icon,the ultimate statement of the hippie
         generation (at least from the British point of view).Some people req-
         uested radio stations to play it to coincide with teenager's funerals.
         It was a momentous occasion to see the song's authors perform it to-
         gether for probably the last time,even if they were a little out of
         practice...

>>	 I mean if Jones is a bit overweight that just ruins the whole
>> 	 experience.
>
>Strange set of values, there.  I didn't like it merely because I didn't like
>the performance.  Jones' obesity (which I didn't notice and haven't noticed
>yet in seeing interviews of him, so I have no idea what you're talking about.
>

         ...apologies are in order here.I know somebody asked the net if Jones
         were at Live-Aid and received the response,"Yeah,he was the fat,ugly
         guy playing bass."If you weren't responsible for this then I'm sorry
         for the mix-up...

>>                                   Just another timely contribution to
>>                                         net.KateBush,
>>                                           Larry Palena,
>
>It's apparent where this person is coming from.
>-- 

     ...PERSON!!?? PERSON!!?? I think you should know that the last dude
      who called me a person is still looking for his head!!!...

                                    I don't know how long this seriousness
                                        streak is going to last,

                                          Larry Palena,
                                          lp102911@sjuvax