bdjst@cisunx.UUCP (Ratso) (02/27/88)
I am interested in getting a modula II compiler for my Amiga. I am going to get either the Benchmark or the M2Amiga compiler. I would like to hear from people programming in either environment to know what you like or dislike about the compiler. Please tell me about the environment, any utilities (debugger, extra modules included) and deveopment speed. If there is interest I can post the replies. Ben
cs178abu@sdcc8.ucsd.EDU (John Schultz) (02/27/88)
Benchmark or M2Amiga? Check out Amazing Computing, Volume 3, No. 1. You'll find Benchmark to be the clear leader, from the 700+ page manuals, fastest compile and run times, to the only integrated environment on the Amiga. I've been using Benchmark for over four months now, and haven't found a glich. Developed and produced in the US of A. Distribution problems are over; this compiler is going to take off. Watch. John
cmcmanis%pepper@Sun.COM (Chuck McManis) (03/01/88)
In article <802@sdcc8.ucsd.EDU> (John Schultz) writes: > Benchmark or M2Amiga? Check out Amazing Computing, Volume 3, No. >1. You'll find Benchmark to be the clear leader, from the 700+ >page manuals, fastest compile and run times, to the only integrated >environment on the Amiga. I use the Benchmark compiler for my 'structured' code stuff and find it quite acceptable except ... > Distribution problems are over; this compiler is going to take off. Watch. Did you get it from Leon Frenkel's Avant Garde company or Oxxi ? I got it from Oxxi and was dismayed at the various messages here from Leon that seemed to indicate some sort of proxy fight between him and Oxxi. What I would like to know is, just who the heck is supporting this product, and if it is Leon, do the suckers who bought it from Oxxi have to buy it *again* from him to get support, can we send him our 6 disk originals? Calling Oxxi gives the traditional, "We are supporting Benchmark Modula II, and the release manuals should be available any day now." I have been steering people clear of this product until there is a definitive answer to these support questions. Any illumination appreciated. --Chuck McManis uucp: {anywhere}!sun!cmcmanis BIX: cmcmanis ARPAnet: cmcmanis@sun.com These opinions are my own and no one elses, but you knew that didn't you.
peter@nuchat.UUCP (Peter da Silva) (03/02/88)
In article <802@sdcc8.ucsd.EDU>, cs178abu@sdcc8.ucsd.EDU (John Schultz) writes: > Benchmark or M2Amiga? Check out Amazing Computing, Volume 3, No. > 1. You'll find Benchmark to be the clear leader, from the 700+ > page manuals, fastest compile and run times, to the only integrated ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > environment on the Amiga. I've been using Benchmark for over four ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > months now, and haven't found a glich. Developed and produced in > the US of A. Distribution problems are over; this compiler is going > to take off. Watch. The Amiga *is* an integrated environment. Why on earth do you want to patch a PCware integrated program on top of that? M2Amiga does a pretty good job of using the Amiga Workbench *or* the CLI. Works pretty well with Browser, too. -- -- a clone of Peter (have you hugged your wolf today) da Silva `-_-' -- normally ...!hoptoad!academ!uhnix1!sugar!peter U -- Disclaimer: These aren't mere opinions... these are *values*.
cs178abu@sdcc8.ucsd.EDU (John Schultz) (03/03/88)
In article <714@nuchat.UUCP> peter@nuchat.UUCP (Peter da Silva) writes: >In article <802@sdcc8.ucsd.EDU>, cs178abu@sdcc8.ucsd.EDU (John Schultz) writes: >> Benchmark or M2Amiga? Check out Amazing Computing, Volume 3, No. ... >> ... only integrated environment ... >The Amiga *is* an integrated environment. Why on earth do you want to >patch a PCware integrated program on top of that? M2Amiga does a pretty >good job of using the Amiga Workbench *or* the CLI. Works pretty well >with Browser, too. >-- >-- a clone of Peter (have you hugged your wolf today) da Silva `-_-' Huh? You can't see the utility of an integrated compiler/linker/editor/errorlister? You'd rather click between windows and retype commands? Fine, you can run Benchmark in that manner as well. What do you mean by "patch a PCware integrated program <on top of the Amiga>"? Is this a "flame"? Let's be constructive here, and think with our minds, not our wallets. (I know how you feel, as I spent hundreds of dollars on TDI M2; the money is gone, but new knowledge exists. Benchmark is superior. Fact. Now I have even less money, but even greater knowledge. IF M2Amiga were superior, I'd be "more poorer"...) "Wouldn't you rather: F2,F3,F4 (to compile, link and run) Instead of: Wave the mouse around, click to this window, type a command, wave the mouse around, click to that window, type a command, ... ????" Those of us who have used both "environments" can attest to the utility of the integrated method. Just because the Amiga is multitasking, does not mean that we should force the user to multitask. If a simpler and more efficient method works, that is the best method. John
haitex@pnet01.cts.com (Wade Bickel) (03/03/88)
cmcmanis%pepper@Sun.COM (Chuck McManis) writes: >> Distribution problems are over; this compiler is going to take off. Watch. > >Did you get it from Leon Frenkel's Avant Garde company or Oxxi ? I got it >from Oxxi and was dismayed at the various messages here from Leon that >seemed to indicate some sort of proxy fight between him and Oxxi. What >I would like to know is, just who the heck is supporting this product, and >if it is Leon, do the suckers who bought it from Oxxi have to buy it >*again* from him to get support, can we send him our 6 disk originals? >Calling Oxxi gives the traditional, "We are supporting Benchmark Modula II, >and the release manuals should be available any day now." I have been >steering people clear of this product until there is a definitive answer >to these support questions. Any illumination appreciated. courts. Since Leon has never received anything from OXXI and rd. It seems both will continue to sell it unless something Johnfrom publishing. soon. Leon released and shipped 500 release units last week through his ng for the OXXI happens in the courts. Since Leon has never received anything from OXXI and apparently never completed any contract with OXXI, I assume Leon cannot be stopped from publishing. I don't know if he can (or will) try to stop OXXI from publishing. In any case consider this, OXXI has sold hundreds of copies of the Benchmark beta. This product has been virtually unsupported. None-the-less OXXI is not swamped with customer complaints and questions. Why? Because the beta copy is bug free. As far as support for OXXI Benchmark owners, I was thinking of talking to Leon about some kind of reduced price offer for OXXI Benchmark owners, in exchange for the originals. Leon never received anything for the OXXI copies, and it would run him several thousand dollars just to produce the replacement units, so you can't expect a free update. Why do you limit your M2 work to "structured" stuff? Thanks, Wade. UUCP: {cbosgd, hplabs!hp-sdd, sdcsvax, nosc}!crash!pnet01!haitex ARPA: crash!pnet01!haitex@nosc.mil INET: haitex@pnet01.CTS.COM
haitex@pnet01.cts.com (Wade Bickel) (03/07/88)
peter@nuchat.UUCP (Peter da Silva) writes: >In article <802@sdcc8.ucsd.EDU>, cs178abu@sdcc8.ucsd.EDU (John Schultz) writes: >> page manuals, fastest compile and run times, to the only integrated > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >> environment on the Amiga. I've been using Benchmark for over four > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > >The Amiga *is* an integrated environment. Why on earth do you want to >patch a PCware integrated program on top of that? M2Amiga does a pretty >good job of using the Amiga Workbench *or* the CLI. Works pretty well >with Browser, too. Benchmark *is* not just a PC patch. It only exists on the Amiga. The integration relates only obvious functions such as activating the compiler or linker, or error listing. In Benchmark these functions are (initially) bound to function keys. You can also execute your file with a function key. These are functions used constantly, certainly they MUST be as functional as possible? No? I can't say about M2Amiga. All sources I know of who have both compilers recommend Benchmark, and since I got Benchmark (and MANX C, and TDI Modula-2) for free, and I'm more than happy with it, I can't see laying out $200 for M2Amiga. I'd love to hear more about it though. Wade. UUCP: {cbosgd, hplabs!hp-sdd, sdcsvax, nosc}!crash!pnet01!haitex ARPA: crash!pnet01!haitex@nosc.mil INET: haitex@pnet01.CTS.COM
schaub@sugar.UUCP (Markus Schaub) (03/09/88)
In article <43532@sun.uucp>, cmcmanis%pepper@Sun.COM (Chuck McManis) writes: > In article <802@sdcc8.ucsd.EDU> (John Schultz) writes: > > Benchmark or M2Amiga? Check out Amazing Computing, Volume 3, No. > >1. You'll find Benchmark to be the clear leader, from the 700+ > >page manuals, fastest compile and run times, to the only integrated > > and the release manuals should be available any day now." I have been > steering people clear of this product until there is a definitive answer > to these support questions. Any illumination appreciated. > Review in Amazing Computing 3/1: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Any review is better than no review. This one is a good report of minor bugs that were in a review copy which was never officially released. These comments and problems are corrected by now. Support: ~~~~~~~~ Interface Technologies Corp. (ITC) is in the business with Modula-2 compilers for 4 years now. ITC has a lot of partners in Europe that also are in the Modula-2 market. M2Amiga is supported by the whole development team in Europe and the U.S.A. It is, as a matter of fact also one of my duties here to answer your questions. Further development: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ After the basic version was finished we started to develop an array of additional utilities for M2Amiga. Some of these utilities are ready for release, others still need some work. No, not all of them will be sold seperately, we will include some of these utilities into our basic package. No, we don't forget people who already bought our product. Our upgrade policy even allows us to give a free upgrade for these people. So, M2Amiga Users send in your Registration Card! M2Amiga doesn't need to take off anymore, it already did. The user community in the U.S.A., Canada and especially in Europe is growing very fast. PS. We are on the market since Aug 87 in German and Oct 87 in English. Need further info? Drop me a line. -- // Markus Schaub uunet!nuchat!sugar!schaub (713) 523 8422 // M2Amiga Developer trying to get back the money I paid for my \\ // Amiga by selling a few M2Amiga. \X/ c/o Interface Technologies Corp, 3336 Richmond #323, Houston Tx 77098
schaub@sugar.UUCP (Markus Schaub) (03/10/88)
M2Amiga Users and User To Be.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We just expanded our base for customer support.
ITC (Interface Technologies) has a conference of BIX.
Customer support now available through:
- mail USA/Europe
- phone USA/Europe
- uucp USA/Europe
- BIX
If you're on bix and have any questions, so mail to 'rajah' or post in
conference 'itc'.
--
// Markus Schaub uunet!nuchat!sugar!schaub (713) 523 8422
// M2Amiga Developer trying to get back the money I paid for my
\\ // Amiga by selling a few M2Amiga.
\X/ c/o Interface Technologies Corp, 3336 Richmond #323, Houston Tx 77098cs178abu@sdcc8.ucsd.EDU (John Schultz) (03/11/88)
Check out volume three, number 3 (the latest) Amazing Computing for an in-depth review of Benchmark Modula-2. It's an accurate review of the product showing all good, inbetween, and bad points. A quote from the article sums up what some of us have been saying for some time (we have used Aztec, TDI, and Benchmark): "I think the Benchmark Modula-2 package is the best Amiga program development environment to date" Still not convinced? "You will never know until you try..." Hard as it may be, try to find someone you know who can show it to you, let you experiment with it, and answer questions about M2 in general. (Hey, this package even comes with a section on how to convert between C and M2, C io routines, and C memory routines. What could be easier?) ..it isn't religion anymore... (We'd like to see an incremental C++ compiler, no arguments there) John
schaub@sugar.UUCP (Markus Schaub) (03/22/88)
In article <816@sdcc8.ucsd.EDU>, cs178abu@sdcc8.ucsd.EDU (John Schultz) writes: > > "I think the XXXXXXXXX Modula-2 package is the best Amiga program > development environment to date" > Well, I can show you the same sentence in a German magazine in a review of M2Amiga published last October. ~~~~~~~ Most of the Modula-2 specific stuff is also true for M2Amiga. The environment, well, we think Editors are another religion and do not force you to use our editor. The compiler (of M2Amiga) has many extensions that are very helpful for Amiga programming you don't find in this other product. BTW: What is the legal situation of XXX ??? -- // Markus Schaub | The Modula-2 People: // M2Amiga Developer | Interface Technologies Corp. \\ // uunet!nuchat!sugar!schaub | 3336 Richmond Ave. Suite 323 \X/ (713) 523-8422 | Houston, TX 77098
cs178abu@sdcc8.ucsd.EDU (John Schultz) (03/25/88)
>Well, I can show you the same sentence in a German magazine in a review of >M2Amiga published last October. >~~~~~~~ Did they compare it against the Benchmark compiler? We know where TDI stands... >BTW: What is the legal situation of XXX ??? Both Oxxi and Avante Garde are selling Benchmark; Avante Garde has just released version 1.0 (My Oxxi version is Beta). Contact Oxxi or Avante Garde for more details on legal issues. > // Markus Schaub | The Modula-2 People: Is it true that the M2Amiga compiler does automatic type transfer (as in C)? Also, have you read volume 3 number 3 Amazing computing? Benchmark is reviewed... Anyway, if it can be shown that M2Amiga or XXXXXXX is better than Benchmark (Like a one pass C/C++ compiler), I won't hesitate to try it... Better defined as: An overall increase in productivity- fast code-debug-run cycles, stability, no compiler bugs, fast run time code, compact code; all these items summed and weighed. John