davis@lowlif.dec.com (Earth@USA@Missouri@KC@DEC@Davis.Richard) (03/29/88)
WARNING! I apologize for this, but I just couldn't resist this one: Recently, George Lehmann writes to the world: >In article <2436@bsu-cs.UUCP> cfchiesa@bsu-cs.UUCP (Christopher Chiesa) writes: >>Dream ON, buckaroo! Where the heck did you get the idea that anybody could >>actually LEARN anything USEFUL from SCHOOL? In my personal experience, the > <...> >>that I've learned ten times as much from just "messing around" on my own, >>than in ALL my school classes combined. > ><Flame on> >If you availed yourself of the FULL resources (including the people) at your >school, you would obviously have more than a piece of paper. [gloriously extols the virtues of higher education] ><Flame off> > >I certainly hope this guy is an isolated example of what comes out of our >school systems. And we wonder about the reports of American education >trailing Japan and the Soviets... Sorry, but he's not isolated. Having recently graduated from college, I feel much the same way. The public colleges of America are not set up to handle the educational needs of their superior students and some people can't afford the private universities. I came from a state university that had a cluster of 2 VAX 8650's, an 11/785, and an 11/780, with terminals in EVERY DORM ROOM! They had the hardware, but managed it like a warden would manage a prison. They had good instructors, but couldn't support high-level classes for "only a few students." Understandably, it is necessary to teach a class to the slowest person in it, but how boring for some of us! I feel like I taught myself most of what I use today in the industry. Sad, but true. What's the answer? Richard Davis (DEC made me say it. You believe that? Well, I have this bridge for sale...)
cmcmanis%pepper@Sun.COM (Chuck McManis) (03/30/88)
College is one of those things that the students rarely understand
until they have been out of college and had to deal with both college
graduates and non-college graduates. Much of what college 'teaches'
you is subliminal. For instance :
You have a class in Anthropology 101, it is required for your degree
but you have zero interest in looking at little bits of rock that the
professor seems to believe were once bones. The course is primarily
reading and several papers. Since it is required for your degree, you
slug it out and get it over with.
You are now working at a high tech computer manufacturer. Your boss
tells you that the reliability people are reporting high failure rates
for the disk interface. He wants you to go down to Reliability Engineering,
figure out what the problem is, and write up a report and a plan of action
for his manager. Since you normally design CPU's you could care less
about disk interfaces, but since it is your boss asking you to do it,
you call on the same resolve that got you through Anthro 101 and generate
the requested paperwork.
In 'the real world' there are many situations like this, only rarely do
you get a chance to work on stuff you really like full time. Consequently,
when I see two applicants, one with a college degree and one without I
usually ask the one without "Why didn't you finish your degree?" and if
the answer is "I didn't want to put up with the bulls**t between engineering
classes." Then I know this person may have problems with the crap in
a real job as well.
The most important thing that is 'taught' in good universities and colleges
is not a bunch of examples of current technology, but rather how to
evaluate the current technology and expand it. Often the distinction is
made between "Learning a bunch of 'facts'" vs "Learning how to 'think'."
And I would much rather work with someone who thinks, than someone who
happens to know a bunch of facts. Because the latter will invariably run
out of facts, whereas the former can keep learning and generating new
facts on their own. I think of this as learning how to approach problems
and solve them rather than applying canned solutions to a bunch of
problems.
In any event, people's perception of college will be different. And some
colleges will be better at preparing you for the real world than others.
Everyone I know figures that new college grads won't _know_ anything. But
they will have the foundation to _learn_ the particular business your
in. And we assume they will be able to put up with the unavoidable bulls**t
and be able to meet deadlines reasonably well. So stay in college, just
the fact that you made it through is a plus in my book.
--Chuck McManis
uucp: {anywhere}!sun!cmcmanis BIX: cmcmanis ARPAnet: cmcmanis@sun.com
These opinions are my own and no one elses, but you knew that didn't you.