page@swan.ulowell.edu (Bob Page) (03/01/88)
Can we clear this up once and for all? ALL Amigas, except for a handful of early A1000's, have the EXTRA_HALFBRITE mode. With over half a million Amigas in the world, you should consider it a standard feature. ..Bob -- Bob Page, U of Lowell CS Dept. page@swan.ulowell.edu ulowell!page "I don't know such stuff. I just do eyes." -- from 'Blade Runner'
disd@hubcap.UUCP (Gary R. Heffelfinger) (03/02/88)
in article <5183@swan.ulowell.edu>, page@swan.ulowell.edu (Bob Page) says: > > Can we clear this up once and for all? > > ALL Amigas, except for a handful of early A1000's, have the > EXTRA_HALFBRITE mode. With over half a million Amigas in the world, > you should consider it a standard feature. > Speaking as one of those who has one of the early Amigas, I'd like to make a plea to programmers to not assume that all Amigas have it. I recall running a program back in the early days that was a demo of EHB, which would abort with a nasty message on my Ami. Note that I have no experience with using EHB, so I don't know for sure if a program will abort when it doesn't find it, but I'd hate to buy the long-awaited "Creeping Mutant Romuloids from Planet 10" only to find that it shuts down saying "Oop Ack! Upgrade your chip!" So if a function call is required to activate EHB, please pay attention to what it returns so that you don't leave us old timers completely out in the cold. Wizards, please feel free to correct me if this is not the case. I'm only a weekend Ami programmer. Now if C= would agree to make these chips available to us poor, deprived, children, for something much less than the $60+ I seem to remember having quoted at us, I'd be happy to purchase one. Then I won't give a damn whether or not you check for EHB. The quoted price, what ever it was, struck me as too much just for the benefit of having more colors. However, for $20 or $25, I wouldn't even bat an eye. -Gary > ..Bob > -- > Bob Page, U of Lowell CS Dept. page@swan.ulowell.edu ulowell!page > "I don't know such stuff. I just do eyes." -- from 'Blade Runner' -- Gary R. Heffelfinger Employed by, but not the disd@hubcap.clemson.edu mouthpiece of, Clemson University "If you prick me, do I not...onion?" <--<< .signature version 2.0
STEVEG@MAINE.BITNET (Steve E. Goldsmith) (03/03/88)
I have several Amiga 1000's that I work on, NONE have extra half brite. Sure, I was one of those pioneer types who got into Amiga early in the game, but still... I have an A1000 in my office, 1 at home, 1 at my Amiga store ... I'll second the bid to make the chips available for less $ to upgrade, but until then I don't think it would be a safe assumption that 'all' Amiga's have the capability, even if it is a small chunk of the market. /Steve
glewis@cit-vax.Caltech.Edu (Glenn M. Lewis) (03/03/88)
In article <1047@hubcap.UUCP> disd@hubcap.UUCP (Gary R. Heffelfinger) writes: >in article <5183@swan.ulowell.edu>, page@swan.ulowell.edu (Bob Page) says: >> ...ALL Amigas, except for a handful of early A1000's, have the >> EXTRA_HALFBRITE mode. With over half a million Amigas in the world, >> you should consider it a standard feature... >> ..Bob >...I'd be happy to purchase one... >-Gary I would like to upgrade my early A1000 as well, but do not have the information that was given earlier on how to do such a thing. Will a helpful CATS person please E-Mail (or post, if you deem useful to UseNet) the information about who I send my check to, and what numbers I should place on the check? Thank you. -- Glenn Lewis -- glewis@cit-vax.caltech.edu
hbo@hub.ucsb.edu (Howard Owen) (03/03/88)
In article <5183@swan.ulowell.edu> page@swan.ulowell.edu (Bob Page) writes: >Can we clear this up once and for all? > >ALL Amigas, except for a handful of early A1000's, have the ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >EXTRA_HALFBRITE mode. With over half a million Amigas in the world, >you should consider it a standard feature. > My old 1000 didn't have it. In fact, I seem to recall that it was the "handful of early 1000's" that HAD EHB. Didn't someone here do a mail survey of how many machines had the feature, and didn't it turn out the vast majority of A1000s didn't have it? Granted, the new machines come with EHB installed (Halfbright Hill looks GREAT on my 2000!) but I wouldn't assume it was present unless I wanted to piss off a significantly large segment of the Amiga population! >..Bob >-- >Bob Page, U of Lowell CS Dept. page@swan.ulowell.edu ulowell!page >"I don't know such stuff. I just do eyes." -- from 'Blade Runner' -- Howard Owen, Programmer/Analyst PHYSNET/HEPNET/SPAN: SBPHY::HBO Physics Computer Services internet: hbo@sbphy.ucsb.edu University of California, Santa Barbara bitnet: HBO@SBITP.BITNET "I am not a pay TV service!" PLink: HBO
dillon@CORY.BERKELEY.EDU (Matt Dillon) (03/04/88)
My poor A1000 isn't *that* old, and it does NOT have EHB. Not that I care all that much. All A500's and A2000's have EHB. -Matt
dca@toylnd.UUCP (David C. Albrecht) (03/04/88)
In article <5183@swan.ulowell.edu>, page@swan.ulowell.edu (Bob Page) writes: > Can we clear this up once and for all? > > ALL Amigas, except for a handful of early A1000's, have the > EXTRA_HALFBRITE mode. With over half a million Amigas in the world, > you should consider it a standard feature. Ah. Try again. I got my 1000 in May of 86 when the monitor deal went on. The one I got at work was much later - more like Jan of 87 neither one has half-brite. I wouldn't consider either one 'early', the Amiga's introduction was September of 85. It may be that I got unlucky, I doubt it. Given my experience I think you are taking a big chance considering half-brite 'standard' unless someone provides some hard figures instead of speculation. David Albrecht
erd@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu (Ethan R. Dicks) (03/04/88)
In article <5183@swan.ulowell.edu> page@swan.ulowell.edu (Bob Page) writes: >Can we clear this up once and for all? > >ALL Amigas, except for a handful of early A1000's, have the >EXTRA_HALFBRITE mode. With over half a million Amigas in the world, >you should consider it a standard feature. > >..Bob >-- >Bob Page, U of Lowell CS Dept. page@swan.ulowell.edu ulowell!page >"I don't know such stuff. I just do eyes." -- from 'Blade Runner' Unfortunately, I have one such machine. If extra_halfbrite is to be considered a standard feature, then Commodore should offer to upgrade (for a reasonable price) all older machines to the newer chips. At Earthrise Micro Systems, they want over $70 for parts alone to swap the chip. They did tell me that if I bought a Genlock, that they would replace both Agnus and Denise (or was it Paula?) because there is some incompatibility with Genlock and older revisions of the chip. I don't need a Genlock, but I would like to have extra_halfbrite mode for a reasonable price. -ethan -- Ethan R. Dicks | ###### This signifies that the poster is a member in Specialized Software| ## good sitting of Inertia House: Bodies at rest. 2101 Iuka Ave. | ## Columbus OH 43201 | ###### "You get it, you're closer."
spencer@eris (Randal m. Spencer [RmS]) (03/07/88)
Recently on Comp.Sys.Amiga disd@hubcap.UUCP (Gary R. Heffelfinger) said: ...which would abort with a nasty message on my Ami. Note that I have no ...experience with using EHB, so I don't know for sure if a program will ...abort when it doesn't find it, but I'd hate to buy the long-awaited ..."Creeping Mutant Romuloids from Planet 10" only to find that it shuts ...down saying "Oop Ack! Upgrade your chip!" So if a function call is ...required to activate EHB, please pay attention to what it returns so ...that you don't leave us old timers completely out in the cold. Wizards, ...please feel free to correct me if this is not the case. I'm only a ...weekend Ami programmer. ...-- ...Gary R. Heffelfinger Employed by, but not the Also in Comp.Sys.Amiga hbo@hub.ucsb.edu (Howard Owen) said: ... My old 1000 didn't have it. In fact, I seem to recall that it was the ..."handful of early 1000's" that HAD EHB. Didn't someone here do a mail survey ...of how many machines had the feature, and didn't it turn out the vast majority ...of A1000s didn't have it? Granted, the new machines come with EHB installed ...(Halfbright Hill looks GREAT on my 2000!) but I wouldn't assume it was present ...unless I wanted to piss off a significantly large segment of the Amiga ...population! ...-- ...Howard Owen, Programmer/Analyst PHYSNET/HEPNET/SPAN: SBPHY::HBO Sorry, I don't think that there is really any way to tell if a machine has EHB unless you put up a requester that uses it which asks the user what he sees. So I don't think that anyone who decides to use it is going to be able to test for it, and program around it. Also, just like all the hard- ware people have been saying: I will make product for the machine that Commodore is shipping now. If you don't have a EHB chip that is your problem. I am not going to not use EHB just to make you happy, most people who have 1000's that don't have it have already upgraded to the 500 or 2000 and just have their 1000 sitting around, the rest will when the new chipset comes out. I don't think that you are going to be able to sit there and not upgrade your hardware. At the same time, I don't think I can come up with much in the way of uses for the EHB mode, I guess that a paint program should have it, and it does allow for extra colors when creating a game graphic. I was the one that conducted the poll to see who had the chip and it is true, ALOT more than a handful made it out without the EHB, but at the same time, they have sold as many 500's and 2000's as they ever sold 1000's, so the market has the majority of it using EHB, and the percentages growing on that side daily. Of course I still have two 1000's that don't have that chip, so if anyone can help me out I would appreciate it! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Randy Spencer P.O. Box 4542 Berkeley CA 94704 (415)222-7595 spencer@mica.berkeley.edu I N F I N I T Y BBS: (415)222-9416 ..ucbvax!mica!spencer s o f t w a r e AAA-WH1M -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
hbo@hub.ucsb.edu (Howard Owen) (03/07/88)
In article <7425@agate.BERKELEY.EDU> spencer@eris.berkeley.edu (Randal m. Spencer [RmS]) writes: . . >ware people have been saying: I will make product for the machine that >Commodore is shipping now. If you don't have a EHB chip that is your >problem. I am not going to not use EHB just to make you happy, most >people who have 1000's that don't have it have already upgraded to the >500 or 2000 and just have their 1000 sitting around, the rest will when >the new chipset comes out. I don't think that you are going to be able >to sit there and not upgrade your hardware. > >At the same time, I don't think I can come up with much in the way of >uses for the EHB mode, I guess that a paint program should have it, and >it does allow for extra colors when creating a game graphic. > >I was the one that conducted the poll to see who had the chip and it is >true, ALOT more than a handful made it out without the EHB, but at the >same time, they have sold as many 500's and 2000's as they ever sold >1000's, so the market has the majority of it using EHB, and the percentages >growing on that side daily. Of course I still have two 1000's that don't >have that chip, so if anyone can help me out I would appreciate it! OK, it seems to me from the above statistics that something like 40% of existing Amigas do not have EHB mode. It may sound like I am pulling that number out of a hat, though I doubt I am grossly in error with my estimate. At any rate, we can probably agree that non-EHB systems make up a large minority of Amiga systems. Given this fact, where is the logic in excluding such a large chunk of your potential customers if you are developing a software product for the (still) thin Amiga market? In an effort to head off flames that would accuse me of being anti- progressive, let me hasten to add that I was among those that were disappointed that the 2000 didn't represent a real extension of the 1000's capabilities. I'd be glad to give up a degree of downward compatibility if it meant I got 2 megs of chip RAM, or higher non-interlaced screen resolution or a 68020 or ... What I got instead was my new 2000, which is so very nearly the same machine internally as the 500 and 1000 that it seems a shame to give up compatibility for the sake of a feature that we seem to agree is of dubious value. >Randy Spencer P.O. Box 4542 Berkeley CA 94704 (415)222-7595 -- Howard Owen, Programmer/Analyst PHYSNET/HEPNET/SPAN: SBPHY::HBO Physics Computer Services internet: hbo@sbphy.ucsb.edu University of California, Santa Barbara bitnet: HBO@SBITP.BITNET PLink: HBO "I am not a pay TV service!" BBS: "The Quirk" 805-967-9357
cmcmanis%pepper@Sun.COM (Chuck McManis) (03/08/88)
In article <471@hub.ucsb.edu> hbo@sbphy.ucsb.edu (Howard Owen) writes: > OK, it seems to me from the above statistics that something > like 40% of existing Amigas do not have EHB mode. It may sound > like I am pulling that number out of a hat, though I doubt I am > grossly in error with my estimate. At any rate, we can probably > agree that non-EHB systems make up a large minority of Amiga > systems. Given this fact, where is the logic in excluding such > a large chunk of your potential customers if you are developing > a software product for the (still) thin Amiga market? Well you are way off in your estimate, it goes something like this. There were approximately 150,000 Amiga 1000s sold. Of these somwhere between one third and one half did not have EHB. (The refurbed ones have it) There are now 500,000 plus Amigas in the world, 75000/500000 = 15% tops. So no, it is not feasible to design in support for non-ehb machines. You assume they have it. > In an effort to head off flames that would accuse me of being > anti- progressive, let me hasten to add that I was among those > that were disappointed that the 2000 didn't represent a real > extension of the 1000's capabilities. I'd be glad to give up a > degree of downward compatibility if it meant I got 2 megs of > chip RAM, or higher non-interlaced screen resolution or a 68020 > or ... What I got instead was my new 2000, which is so very > nearly the same machine internally as the 500 and 1000 that it > seems a shame to give up compatibility for the sake of a > feature that we seem to agree is of dubious value. I disagree with the above sentiment completely. What the 2000 gives you is *capability* not new features. Look at the stuff coming out for the 2000, it is four times as much activity as the 1000 had. And it generally works too. No, as Commodore learned (and Atari will learn) the Expansion Connector is good for one thing, adding one (1) expansion unit. Be it a box with slots or a memory card. The 2000 can be made to be a 68020 machine or have more chip ram, or do non-interlaced screens. Your 1000 couldn't and can't. Yes is was a definite improvement, and I for one think deserves recognition. What the 500 gave us was 'cheap', the ability to sell this wonderful technology into the *very* price sensitive home market. Something else you couldn't do with the 1000. Yes, they both were steps forward. --Chuck McManis uucp: {anywhere}!sun!cmcmanis BIX: cmcmanis ARPAnet: cmcmanis@sun.com These opinions are my own and no one elses, but you knew that didn't you.
page@swan.ulowell.edu (Bob Page) (03/08/88)
hbo@sbphy.ucsb.edu (Howard Owen) wrote: >something like 40% of existing Amigas do not have EHB mode. It may >sound like I am pulling that number out of a hat Yes, it sounds like that. Let's say there are 500,000 Amigas, although CBM says there were more than that by Jan 1. Let's also say that 150,000 of them are Amiga 1000s (the size of the production run, by reliable estimates). Let's further say that a third of them did not have EHB (a figure which I have no numbers on, this is just a guess). That means 10% were shipped without EHB. Since some A1000 owners have installed new rev denises, and since there are probably more Amigas out there than the >500,000 that CBM reported (on BIX amiga.dev/market.info in case you are interested) in January, we're under 10%. So why haven't you seen more EHB code? Probably two reasons: 1. There is general confusion about whether it's really available or not, and 2. Most of the "grand-hackers" of the Amiga have early A1000s without EHB. They don't write code for features they don't have. EXTRA_HALFBRITE: consider it standard. ..Bob -- Bob Page, U of Lowell CS Dept. page@swan.ulowell.edu ulowell!page "I don't know such stuff. I just do eyes." -- from 'Blade Runner'
jmpiazza@sunybcs.uucp (Joseph Piazza) (03/09/88)
In article <5302@swan.ulowell.edu> page@swan.ulowell.edu (Bob Page) writes: > ... That means 10% were shipped without EHB. Since some A1000 >owners have installed new rev denises, Some? 140,000? >and since there are probably >more Amigas out there than the >500,000 that CBM reported (on BIX >amiga.dev/market.info in case you are interested) in January, we're >under 10%. > >EXTRA_HALFBRITE: consider it standard. Let's cut the nonsense and figure tossing and treat EHB availability as it is -- most Amiga owners have it and a small handful don't. It is n o t standard. Single floppy drive? That i s standard. How about 512K RAM? It's not standard either but we still see "512K needed" on the package. I'm not saying don't use EHB. Hell, I don't even remember exactly what it does and how it works. I a m asking that if EHB is used, don't make it so that the application is unusable by the have nots; and if this isn't possible, let us know and put on the front of the package right under "512K needed." I'm also disturbed that your stance sounds very much that taken by people who considered the amount of Amigas in the market place to be zero, rounded to the nearest million (though this doesn't hold true now). With all respects, I expected something better from you. Flip side, joe piazza --- In capitalism, man exploits man. In communism, it's the other way around. CS Dept. SUNY at Buffalo 14260 BI: jmpiazza@sunybcs UU: ...{rocksvax|decvax}!sunybcs!jmpiazza CS: jmpiazza@cs.buffalo.edu GE: jmpiazza >Bob Page, U of Lowell CS Dept. page@swan.ulowell.edu ulowell!page
dca@toylnd.UUCP (David C. Albrecht) (03/09/88)
In article <44456@sun.uucp>, cmcmanis%pepper@Sun.COM (Chuck McManis) writes: > > Well you are way off in your estimate, it goes something like this. There > were approximately 150,000 Amiga 1000s sold. Of these somwhere between > one third and one half did not have EHB. (The refurbed ones have it) > There are now 500,000 plus Amigas in the world, 75000/500000 = 15% tops. > So no, it is not feasible to design in support for non-ehb machines. You > assume they have it. > Disagree. While no doubt there are applications that exist out there where EHB is a requirement, I doubt that there are very many where there couldn't be a fall back non-EHB mode. To me it seems STUPID to not make what little effort is required to support non-EHB even if it is only 15% of the market. This is not to say that EHB shouldn't be used, just that it shouldn't be abused either. Can you imagine a package marked 'requires EHB' and the confusion that could cause. Do you think that any company in their right mind will want to deal with the hassle of returns at a rate of 15% on their software just because it doesn't work without EHB. Especially when it could easily and should have been compatible with ANY 1000. Riiiight. In addition, the so called 'early' Amigas where sold when the systems cost from 1.5K to 2K. People who purchased these machines were high rolling tech weenies with for the most part a fair amount of free income to throw around. More than a few of them seem to be software developers. A great many of the 500,000 you so proudly quote is the 500 which some are probably going to people who find it a stretch to afford just the box. I dare say the 500 probably has increased the proportion of those who would rather pirate than buy. Just like some relatively low rated programs stay on television because the particularly affluent set of the populace they reach ignoring a large portion of the 1000 market in favor of the 500 market might be cutting your own throat. This speculation, of course, is ignoring the 1000->2000 upgrade deal which undoubtably considerably muddies the waters. I know that I upgraded my 1000 (w/o EHB) to a 2000 many of the owners of 'early' 1000s probably did the same. All I can assume is that when you say: "it is not feasible to design in support for non-ehb machines. You assume they have it." is that you are referring to support with equivalent functionality. If not, then I would say you are misguided. Making 15% of your oldest fans feel alienated is never a good idea. David Albrecht
hbo@hub.ucsb.edu (Howard Owen) (03/09/88)
(* Summary mode ON *) In article <44456@sun.uucp> cmcmanis@sun.UUCP (Chuck McManis) writes: >In article <471@hub.ucsb.edu> hbo@sbphy.ucsb.edu (Howard Owen) writes: >> (He quotes me asserting that perhaps 40% of Amigas do not have EHB) >Well you are way off in your estimate, it goes something like this. There > (He goes on to assert that the number is closer to 15%) >> (He quotes me stating that the 2000 is about like the 1000 and 500 inside, so why give up compatibility just for EHB?) (* Summary mode OFF *) > >I disagree with the above sentiment completely. What the 2000 gives you >is *capability* not new features. Look at the stuff coming out for the 2000, >it is four times as much activity as the 1000 had. And it generally works >too. No, as Commodore learned (and Atari will learn) the Expansion Connector >is good for one thing, adding one (1) expansion unit. Be it a box with slots >or a memory card. The 2000 can be made to be a 68020 machine or have more >chip ram, or do non-interlaced screens. Your 1000 couldn't and can't. Yes >is was a definite improvement, and I for one think deserves recognition. >What the 500 gave us was 'cheap', the ability to sell this wonderful technology >into the *very* price sensitive home market. Something else you couldn't >do with the 1000. Yes, they both were steps forward. > Pardon me for speaking ill of the new machines. I'm not really that unhappy with my 2000. I bought it principally because I was convinced I'd be able to build on it for some time to come. When the new Agnes comes out, I'll be pleased to take advantage of the applications that will require one meg of chip RAM. Until the whiz-bang, Commodore blessed add-ons emerge, however, I still think it's a bad idea to gratuitously exclude 15%, or 40% or whatever sizable slice of your potential market the non-EHB machines actually represent. >--Chuck McManis -- Howard Owen, Programmer/Analyst PHYSNET/HEPNET/SPAN: SBPHY::HBO Physics Computer Services internet: hbo@sbphy.ucsb.edu University of California, Santa Barbara bitnet: HBO@SBITP.BITNET PLink: HBO "I am not a pay TV service!" BBS: "The Quirk" 805-967-9357
adh@well.UUCP (Allen D. Hastings) (03/09/88)
While we're on the subject, version 2.00 of VideoScape 3D has some
new features which should please both those with Extra Halfbrite-capable
Amigas and those with older machines. The program can now generate
animations that take advantage of EHB to get better shading (optional, of
course). And when using the Hold and Modify option, the program can load
background and foreground IFF files that use normal, HAM, or EHB modes
(any palette). What this means is that you can view Extra Halfbrite
pictures even using non-EHB-capable Amigas and still see the 64 color
effect. This is done by converting the images into HAM mode, which all
Amigas support (except maybe some of the REALLY old ones)...
- Allenhbo@hub.ucsb.edu (Howard Owen) (03/10/88)
In article <5399@well.UUCP> adh@well.UUCP (Allen D. Hastings) writes: . . . >(any palette). What this means is that you can view Extra Halfbrite >pictures even using non-EHB-capable Amigas and still see the 64 color >effect. This is done by converting the images into HAM mode, which all >Amigas support (except maybe some of the REALLY old ones)... Now THAT'S a creative and clever solution to the problem. Videoscape-3D's approach should be taken as a model of how to deal with EHB vs non-EHB machines! > - Allen -- Howard Owen, Programmer/Analyst PHYSNET/HEPNET/SPAN: SBPHY::HBO Physics Computer Services internet: hbo@sbphy.ucsb.edu University of California, Santa Barbara bitnet: HBO@SBITP.BITNET PLink: HBO "I am not a pay TV service!" BBS: "The Quirk" 805-967-9357
blairjj@james.cs.unlv.edu (Jerome Blair) (03/12/88)
I don't understand why everybody is making such a big deal over this
EXTRA_HALFBRITE issue. Why not make it optional? I can't think of many
applications where it would be absolutely required. So, why can't
programmers just put in another menu item to select halfbrite mode? Many
programs already have items to choose screen resolution, colors, etc.
anyway. It won't harm anything to try to use it if it isn't there, except
for possible confusion if things don't look quite right on the screen. With
a menu item to select/deselect it, people with the halfbrite-capable chips
can use it, and everybody else doesn't have to worry about it.
Summary: Stop complaining! It's just one minor little feature. I wish
most other computers had as much compatibility between different versions
as the Amiga does. You could have added the halfbrite menu item to your
programs in half the time it took you to type in all of your flames!
===================
Disclaimer: I'm not REALLY this obnoxious; I'm just in a bad mood
this year. :-)
I don't represent UNLV. I don't even represent myself!msl5864@ritcv.UUCP (Michael S. Leibow) (03/12/88)
>Well you are way off in your estimate, it goes something like this. There >were approximately 150,000 Amiga 1000s sold. Of these somwhere between >one third and one half did not have EHB. (The refurbed ones have it) >There are now 500,000 plus Amigas in the world, 75000/500000 = 15% tops. >So no, it is not feasible to design in support for non-ehb machines. You >assume they have it. I got a refurbed machine. It does not have half brite.
bts@sas.UUCP (Brian T. Schellenberger) (03/14/88)
I have a refurbished Amiga and I can assure you that, contrary to the
misinformation (disinformation?) in a recent posting, it does not have
half-brite mode either. Nor do hardly any of the Amigas I know of in
this area. Of course, I *have* had it for a while, so this may not be
what the poster meant.
And even if only 15% of the Amigas out there have it, you risk significantly
pissing off a sizeable minority of Amiga owners vs. providing a very minor
benefit to the majority. I can't see that it's worth it. Certainly Commodore
should discourage this. Of course there is nothing wrong with having software
that is switchable to use it or not use it, as the case may be. I don't mind
that new software doesn't look as flashy on my machine as on others, but I
don't want software to become unusable on my machine.
In any case, if the software market starts orphaning my machine the way the
hardware market already is, I would certainly not consider recommending
Commodore machines to anybody I liked.
--
--Brian.
(Brian T. Schellenberger) ...!mcnc!rti!sas!bts
DISCLAIMER: Whereas Brian Schellenberger (hereinafter "the party of the first cmcmanis%pepper@Sun.COM (Chuck McManis) (03/31/88)
My original statement :
So no, it is not feasible to design in support for non-ehb machines. You
assume they have it.
David Albrecht's reply in <204@toylnd.UUCP> :
> Disagree.
Followed by a very good case for providing a non-EHB fallback position,
with which I can find no fault and revise my statement above to :
"If you do use EHB, then design in an alternative for machines that
don't have it."
On a related note, what most people have failed to mention, is that Extra
Half-Brite mode is essentially worthless as it is implemented. Basically,
the way it works is a 6 bit pixel takes the contents of the color register
addressed by the lower 5 bits, and shifts all of the R,G,B values right by
one bit and uses the resulting color. So if you had white (15,15,15) in
color register 0, then a pixel value of 32 would give you grey (7,7,7)
in the output. Note that both (15,15,15) and (14,14,14) in color registers
give you the same output. About the only thing it does well is give you
a fast shadow effect. Using a 32 color image you can cast 'shadows' by
putting a mask in the sixth bitplane. Anyone else come up with a use for
it? Note that you can also cast pretty decent shadows by writing a checker-
board pattern of black into the background.
--Chuck McManis
uucp: {anywhere}!sun!cmcmanis BIX: cmcmanis ARPAnet: cmcmanis@sun.com
These opinions are my own and no one elses, but you knew that didn't you.schaub@sugar.UUCP (Markus Schaub) (04/01/88)
In article <204@toylnd.UUCP>, dca@toylnd.UUCP (David C. Albrecht) writes: > In addition, the so called 'early' Amigas where sold when the systems cost > from 1.5K to 2K. People who purchased these machines were high rolling > tech weenies with for the most part a fair amount of free income to throw > around. More than a few of them seem to be software developers. Well, I almost was over it, now you reminded me again. The M2Amiga team bought their Amigas in October 85 AND had to ship them from the States to Switzerland. Yes they are software developers and NO we don't have EHB (yet). But as far as I know upgrades are possible and most developers have now also A2000/A500 machines around. -- // Markus Schaub | The Modula-2 People: // M2Amiga Developer | Interface Technologies Corp. \\ // uunet!nuchat!sugar!schaub | 3336 Richmond Ave. Suite 323 \X/ (713) 523-8422 | Houston, TX 77098
dillon@CORY.BERKELEY.EDU (Matt Dillon) (04/01/88)
>On a related note, what most people have failed to mention, is that Extra >Half-Brite mode is essentially worthless as it is implemented. Basically, >the way it works is a 6 bit pixel takes the contents of the color register Not true. While it does not increase the number of colors on the machine, it *does* free up color registers that would otherwise need to be used to smoothly shade objects. You can have more smoothly shaded colors on the screen at once without resorting to HAM. -Matt
richard@gryphon.CTS.COM (Richard Sexton) (04/02/88)
In article <47593@sun.uucp> cmcmanis@sun.UUCP (Chuck McManis) writes: > >My original statement : > So no, it is not feasible to design in support for non-ehb machines. You > assume they have it. > >David Albrecht's reply in <204@toylnd.UUCP> : >> Disagree. > >Followed by a very good case for providing a non-EHB fallback position, >with which I can find no fault and revise my statement above to : > > "If you do use EHB, then design in an alternative for machines that > don't have it." > >On a related note, what most people have failed to mention, is that Extra >Half-Brite mode is essentially worthless as it is implemented. now now now chuck some of us know how to use it it's not worthless Richard [never look gift 32 extra colors in the mouth] Sexton -- "Ever since the world ended... I don't go out as much" richard@gryphon.CTS.COM rutgers!marque!gryphon!richard
bts@sas.UUCP (Brian T. Schellenberger) (04/04/88)
EHB seems like the obvious way to "white out" menu items that aren't applicable
and such-like. And the Workbench could half-brite all the non-selected
windows, or at least their title bars (though that might be too subtle). Seems
better than the current scribbling.
BUT, as one of the non-EHBers, I would certainly like the scribbling
"fall-back" position.
Of course, I realize this ups workbench memory by 50%, which is probably not
worth it, but it seems like one of the obvious uses to me . . . it'd look quite
sharp, methinks.
--
--Brian.
(Brian T. Schellenberger) ...!mcnc!rti!sas!bts
STD REMINDER: remember to keep included text small for us 1200-bauders . . .avery@puff.cs.wisc.edu (Aaron Avery) (04/05/88)
In article <434@sas.UUCP> bts@sas.UUCP (Brian T. Schellenberger) writes: >and such-like. And the Workbench could half-brite all the non-selected Please note that EHB is ONLY possible using a 6-bitplane, LORES (320 pixels wide) display. This would probably not work out too well for the Workbench screen for most people. Also note that overscan and interlace are still available when using EHB. And as this is a 6-bitplane display, this takes up 50% of the chip memory (and, of course, half-fast memory, too) bandwidth while being displayed. Aaron Avery (avery@puff.cs.wisc.edu) ({seismo,caip,allegra,harvard,rutgers,ihnp4}!uwvax!puff!avery)