papa@pollux.usc.edu (Marco Papa) (03/18/88)
This just got posted by Lauren Brown on BIX. It is definitely worth reading. It is also definitely commercial in nature, but who cares :-) ------------------------------------ TITLE: 1988 CEBIT Show Announcements With over 500 members of the press in attendance, Commodore held a press conference the first day of CEBIT (3/16/88). Chairman Irving Gould took this opportunity to announce the continuation of the company's successful financial picture. For the 6 month period ending 12/31/87, net income rose to $34 million, up from $25.5 million in the same period one year ago. This represents an increase of 33%. Mr. Gould stated that 80% of the net income came from products not present in the Commodore line 2 years ago. Mr. Gould announced the redesign of the PC line, and the further develop- ment of the Amiga computer family. Plans for the Amiga 2500 and Amiga 3000 were discussed. Mr. Gould STRESSED "the A2000 will remain compatible with all new attributes of new Amiga products". Details of new products are: AMIGA 2500AT will have the following specifications: 68020/68881 286 Bridgeboard 40 MG Autoboot harddrive AMIGA 2500UX will be equipped with 68020/68881 Autoboot Hardrive (with option of 100 MG harddrive) Unix 5.3 compatible operating system The Unix included with the A2500UX is a proprietary high performance windowing user shell. Also optional for the A2500UX will be a tapestream storage device. It was also announced that Commodore is continuing work on the Amiga 3000, which will be based on Motorola's 68030 chip. Some of the attributes of this machine include networking capabilities and multiple mass storage devices of up to 2.2 gigabytes. Release of the A3000 is slated for calendar year 1989. Other new products also shown at the Commodore booth include: A2620 68020/68881/68851 coprocessor for the A2000 with 2-4 MG RAM A2024 High Resolution Gray Scale Amiga Monitor A2300 Amiga 2000 Genlock A2286 80286 based Amiga bridgeboard Transputer project In other news from the press conference: Commodore announced a cooperative effort with a large scale research group to develop a high performance workstation. The West German Society for Biotechnological Research and Commodore are working together to develop the workstation which will be based on the Amiga 2000 with Transputer. The workstation is aimed at the chemical, pharmaceutical and food industries, and is considered ideal conditions for graphics applications and display of molecular structures. Chairman Gould announced no plans for Commodore to increase prices due to DRAM price increases. We will continue to supply our market at prices levels now in effect. It was also announced that enchanced graphics chips with non-interlace mode will be available for the Amiga 500 and Amiga 2000. Commodore is the leader in the West German microcomputer industry, with a market share of over 50%. With professional systems, Commodore ranks in 2nd place in Germany, and is unchallenged in the home market. European press reaction to the conference has been very positive. Some of the headlines from the show include: "Commodore and Nixdorf Grow, Grow, Grow" and "Commodore Attacks the Professional and Business Market". Commodore and, more especially, CATS, want to thank you as developers for your ongoing support. It is this support which has made the advancements possible. Hoping to see all of you in Washington - Lauren ------------------------------------ Enjoy. -- Marco
oconnor@sungoddess.steinmetz (Dennis M. O'Connor) (03/18/88)
YES! YES ! YES !
ami-GA !
ami-GA !
ami-GA !
ami-GA !
:-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)
So, how big is the smile on YOUR face ?
( We would like to apologize for the preceeding spontaneous
outburst of delight. Mr. O'Connor has been soundly thrashed
with a soft pillow, and promises to not do it again, well,
at least not today, anyway.
The MANAGEMENT )
--
Dennis O'Connor oconnor%sungod@steinmetz.UUCP ARPA: OCONNORDM@ge-crd.arpa
( I wish I could be civil all the time, like Eugene Miya )
(-: The Few, The Proud, The Architects of the RPM40 40MIPS CMOS Micro :-)ma179aav@sdcc3.ucsd.EDU (Stephen Hartford) (03/19/88)
In article <10005@steinmetz.steinmetz.UUCP> oconnor%sungod@steinmetz.UUCP: > YES! YES ! YES ! > ami-GA ! > :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) > So, how big is the smile on YOUR face ? Thank God someone in netland is paying attention! Too often here on comp.sys.amiga it seems like everyone gets boged down in discussions on IPC and the like (Gee I LOVE the latest one on piracy 8-), and we all miss the BIG news! Rarely do we see articles about the AmiExpo shows, users group meetings, etc. Let's see a wider variety of stuff, and try to leave the "tech" talk in comp.sys.amiga.tech! > Dennis O'Connor oconnor%sungod@steinmetz.UUCP ARPA: OCONNORDM@ge-crd.arpa -- Stephen Hartford shartford@ucsd.edu <- new virtual mail path service here at UCSD! (Well I thought it was kinda neat anyways...)
gore@eecs.nwu.edu (Jacob Gore) (03/20/88)
/ eecs.nwu.edu:comp.sys.amiga / papa@pollux.usc.edu (Marco Papa) / 10:54 pm Mar 17, 1988 / >This just got posted by Lauren Brown on BIX. ... >Details of new products are: > >AMIGA 2500AT will have the following specifications: > > 68020/68881 > 286 Bridgeboard > 40 MG Autoboot harddrive > >AMIGA 2500UX will be equipped with > > 68020/68881 > Autoboot Hardrive (with option of 100 MG harddrive) > Unix 5.3 compatible operating system Will the 2500 have a 32-bit bus? Any idea on when they will be orderable? shipping? What does "AT" in "2500AT" stand for? Jacob Jacob Gore Gore@EECS.NWU.Edu Northwestern Univ., EECS Dept. {oddjob,gargoyle,ihnp4}!nucsrl!gore
ugmiker@sunybcs.uucp (Michael Reilly) (03/20/88)
In article <10260005@eecs.nwu.edu> gore@eecs.nwu.edu (Jacob Gore) writes: >>Details of new products are: >> >>AMIGA 2500AT will have the following specifications: >> 68020/68881 >> 286 Bridgeboard >> 40 MG Autoboot harddrive >Any idea on when they will be orderable? shipping? > Yeah, they will be shipping RSN :-), right after commodore comes out with workbench 1.5........ :-) yes there is a reason for this posting, not just to be obnoxious... :-) >What does "AT" in "2500AT" stand for? The "AT" must mean "ibm pc AT" compatible, with the 286 bridgeboard that is what commodore has to be trying for... make sense ??? :-) personally, I think they should go right for the '386 market... :-) boy, am I glad I kept my 1000, and didn't buy a 2000, in a year, or 12, I can upgrade from a 1000 to a 2500, or 3000, and I won't be one of the A2000 users complaining about having a "outdated machine".... :-) > >Jacob > >Jacob Gore Gore@EECS.NWU.Edu >Northwestern Univ., EECS Dept. {oddjob,gargoyle,ihnp4}!nucsrl!gore Mike Reilly Mike Reilly President of UGCSA University of Buffalo Computer Science csnet: ugmiker@buffalo.CSNET uucp: ..!{nike|watmath,alegra,decvax}!sunybcs!ugmiker BITNET: ugmiker@sunybcs.BITNET <-OR-> ACSCMPR@ubvmsc.BITNET
papa@pollux.usc.edu (Marco Papa) (03/21/88)
In article <10260005@eecs.nwu.edu> gore@eecs.nwu.edu (Jacob Gore) writes: >/ eecs.nwu.edu:comp.sys.amiga / papa@pollux.usc.edu (Marco Papa) / 10:54 pm Mar 17, 1988 / >>AMIGA 2500AT will have the following specifications: >> >> 68020/68881 >> 286 Bridgeboard >> 40 MG Autoboot harddrive > >Will the 2500 have a 32-bit bus? I doubt. As I understan it is the current version of the B2000, plus the C-A 68020/68881 that has been floating at Commodore for quite a while, plus the new Bridgeboard, with an Intel 80286 instead of the 8088 in the original Bridgeboard. As such it will probably be available as soon as those two boards go into production, which could be any time soon (if they haven't already). In fact the old Bridgeboard is almost impossible to obtain, that there are rumors that it is no longer in production while CBM waits for the 286 version to come out. >What does "AT" in "2500AT" stand for? The 286 BridgeCard is basically an IBM PC AT clone on a single board. Some of this is my personal reading of the announcement, so take it with a grain of salt. -- Marco
crgabb@sdrc.UUCP (Rob Gabbard) (03/21/88)
In article <7735@oberon.USC.EDU>, papa@pollux.usc.edu (Marco Papa) writes: > AMIGA 2500AT will have the following specifications: > > 68020/68881 > 286 Bridgeboard > 40 MG Autoboot harddrive > > AMIGA 2500UX will be equipped with > > 68020/68881 > Autoboot Hardrive (with option of 100 MG harddrive) > Unix 5.3 compatible operating system > > The Unix included with the A2500UX is a proprietary high performance > windowing user shell. Also optional for the A2500UX will be a tapestream > storage device. > Does anyone have any further info on this announcement ? I guess the biggest questions would be about availibility and cost. I was set to buy a 2000 next week until this. - Is the windowing shell on the A2500UX (and A3000 I would suppose) based on X Windows or NEWS ? Commodore would be making a BIG mistake if it were not. - Do the AT and UX have 68851 chips ? I would think the UX would have to. - Will UNIX be available for the 2000 with the x020 board since it has a 68851 ? - Was any hardware shown or is all of this VAPORWARE for the moment ? - Is a 2000 upgradable to a 2500 ? (If so, how much ?) And on and on and on ..... -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Rob Gabbard | UUNET: uunet!sdrc!crgabb Workstation Systems Programmer | PHONE: (513)576-2600 Structural Dynamics Research Corporation | =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
daveb@cbmvax.UUCP (Dave Berezowski) (03/21/88)
In article <9454@sunybcs.UUCP> ugmiker@sunybcs.UUCP (Michael Reilly) writes: >boy, am I glad I kept my 1000, and didn't buy a 2000, in a year, or 12, I can >upgrade from a 1000 to a 2500, or 3000, and I won't be one of the A2000 users >complaining about having a "outdated machine".... :-) > >Mike Reilly President of UGCSA University of Buffalo Computer Science >csnet: ugmiker@buffalo.CSNET >uucp: ..!{nike|watmath,alegra,decvax}!sunybcs!ugmiker >BITNET: ugmiker@sunybcs.BITNET <-OR-> ACSCMPR@ubvmsc.BITNET S T O P !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hey guys, the A2000 is NOT an 'outdated machine'!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! All you have to do is buy the A2620 (68020 board) and the A2286 (80286 bridgeboard) plug them in your A2000 and functionally you have a A2500AT. Let's all not jump the gun here and panic. Oh yes, to make the system 'complete' you'll also need a A2090A (harddisk controller) and a 40M hard drive. Regards, David Berezowski
ugmiker@sunybcs.uucp (Michael Reilly) (03/22/88)
In article <3488@cbmvax.UUCP> daveb@cbmvax.UUCP (Dave Berezowski) writes: >In article <9454@sunybcs.UUCP> ugmiker@sunybcs.UUCP (I) JOKED: >>boy, am I glad I kept my 1000, and didn't buy a 2000, in a year, or 12, I can >>upgrade from a 1000 to a 2500, or 3000, and I won't be one of the A2000 users >>complaining about having a "outdated machine".... :-) >> >>Mike Reilly President of UGCSA University of Buffalo Computer Science > S T O P !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > > Hey guys, the A2000 is NOT an 'outdated machine'!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > > Regards, David Berezowski DAVE, I realize that, it was just a joke about the sad, lengthy discussions/complaints about the commodore 1000 to 2000 upgrade path, and the problems of some people (not myself) with that idea....... IT WAS JUST A JOKE...... mike Mike Reilly President of UGCSA University of Buffalo Computer Science csnet: ugmiker@buffalo.CSNET uucp: ..!{nike|watmath,alegra,decvax}!sunybcs!ugmiker BITNET: ugmiker@sunybcs.BITNET <-OR-> ACSCMPR@ubvmsc.BITNET
bakken@tahoma.UUCP (Dave Bakken) (03/22/88)
In article <7735@oberon.USC.EDU>, papa@pollux.usc.edu (Marco Papa) writes: > This just got posted by Lauren Brown on BIX. It is definitely worth > reading. It is also definitely commercial in nature, but who cares :-) > > ------------------------------------ > TITLE: 1988 CEBIT Show Announcements > > [ etc. ] Release of the A3000 is slated for > calendar year 1989. But when will the A2500s be in stores and what will their list price be? -- Dave Bakken Boeing Commercial Airplanes uw-beaver!ssc-vax!shuksan!tahoma!bakken Disclaimer: These views are my own, not my employers.
tope@enea.se (Tommy Petersson) (03/22/88)
In article <7770@oberon.USC.EDU> papa@pollux.usc.edu (Marco Papa) writes: >In article <10260005@eecs.nwu.edu> gore@eecs.nwu.edu (Jacob Gore) writes: >>/ eecs.nwu.edu:comp.sys.amiga / papa@pollux.usc.edu (Marco Papa) / 10:54 pm Mar 17, 1988 / . stuff deleted . >In fact the old Bridgeboard is almost impossible to obtain, that there are >rumors that it is no longer in production while CBM waits for the 286 version >to come out. > Commodore seems to be dumping the Bridgeboards here in Sweden (and maybe some other European countries as well ?). They are selling them cheap, but the shops seems to get about 50% back after a week, when they have ceased to work. Seems like they are selling out the last cards, previousely failing the Commodore Q&A tests (does Commodore test their equipment?). The monitors are also cheap, about minus 500 swedish crowns...
tope@enea.se (Tommy Petersson) (03/22/88)
Short questions: Is the A2090A controller? If so, what is it?
sean@ms.uky.edu (Sean Casey) (03/23/88)
In article <3488@cbmvax.UUCP> daveb@cbmvax.UUCP (Dave Berezowski) writes: >In article <9454@sunybcs.UUCP> ugmiker@sunybcs.UUCP (Michael Reilly) writes: >>boy, am I glad I kept my 1000, and didn't buy a 2000, in a year, or 12, I can >>upgrade from a 1000 to a 2500, or 3000, and I won't be one of the A2000 users >>complaining about having a "outdated machine".... :-) > > Hey guys, the A2000 is NOT an 'outdated machine'!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > > All you have to do is buy the A2620 (68020 board) and the > A2286 (80286 bridgeboard) plug them in your A2000 and > functionally you have a A2500AT. Let's all not jump the > gun here and panic. Oh yes, to make the system 'complete' > you'll also need a A2090A (harddisk controller) and a > 40M hard drive. Of course, I will be able to buy an A2620 and A2286 and A2090 that I can plug directly into my A1000, since it isn't an outdated machine either. Of course. Sean -- *** Sean Casey sean@ms.uky.edu, sean@ukma.bitnet *** The Empire Nutcase {rutgers,uunet,cbosgd}!ukma!sean *** University of Kentucky / Lexington Kentucky / USA *** "Hmmm, I wonder what this button does..."
trudel@topaz.rutgers.edu (Jonathan D.) (03/23/88)
> Of course, I will be able to buy an A2620 and A2286 and A2090 that I can plug > directly into my A1000, since it isn't an outdated machine either. > Of course. One question: Do you like beating a *really* dead horse? The 2500 is a 2000 plus the add-on boards you mention. Is that so difficult for you to understand?
kkaempf@rmi.UUCP (Klaus Kaempf) (03/24/88)
In article <247@sdrc.UUCP> crgabb@sdrc.UUCP (Rob Gabbard) writes:
: Does anyone have any further info on this announcement ?
Yes me ! Read on !
: I guess the biggest questions would be about availibility and cost.
Availibility: 4th Quarter 1988
Cost: A 2500UX (Includes A2000, A2620 (68020CPU, 68881FPU, 68851MMU),
A2024 Hi-Res Monitor, 100MB Harddisk (SCSI), Tape Backup
System (60MB ?) and **REAL** AT&T Unix V.3)
will cost appr. 13000.- DM ( ca. $7500)
: - Is the windowing shell on the A2500UX (and A3000 I would suppose) based on
: X Windows or NEWS ? Commodore would be making a BIG mistake if it were not.
C= said that they tried X-Windows but it was too slow. They showed a VERY
fast windowing system based on their own code. So its neither X-Windows
nor NEWS. It was also only a demo version.
:
: - Do the AT and UX have 68851 chips ? I would think the UX would have to.
The UX has the 68851. This chip is NOT included in the standard A2620 board.
: - Will UNIX be available for the 2000 with the x020 board since it has a
: 68851 ?
The announced A2500 is the A2000. (see above)
: - Was any hardware shown or is all of this VAPORWARE for the moment ?
The Hardware is REAL, the Software is REAL. I've seen it !
: - Is a 2000 upgradable to a 2500 ? (If so, how much ?)
see above
: And on and on and on .....
Hold on !
A detailed CeBIT-Report is in preparation.
Klauspjm@lznh.UUCP (<10000>Paul Maioriello) (03/24/88)
In an article from CBM the a2090A controller was mentioned. Could someone please post the significance of the A. Needless to say I have the a2090 (sans A). Thanks Paul Maioriello lznh!pjm
sean@ms.uky.edu (Sean Casey) (03/24/88)
In article <Mar.23.10.33.28.1988.22000@topaz.rutgers.edu> trudel@topaz.rutgers.edu (Jonathan D.) writes: >> Of course, I will be able to buy an A2620 and A2286 and A2090 that I can plug >> directly into my A1000, since it isn't an outdated machine either. >> Of course. >One question: Do you like beating a *really* dead horse? No, but I *really* hate owning a machine that commodore has all but abandoned. I will *not*, repeat, will not, buy another commodore computer. Perhaps if commodore hears this they will realize that there are some very unhappy users out there. For example, how about the CEBIT announcement about enhanced graphics chips being available sometime (with no interlace) for the 500 and 2000. THERE'S A NUMBER MISSING IN THERE, COMMODORE. HEAR ME??? >The 2500 is a 2000 plus the add-on boards you mention. Is that so >difficult for you to understand? I understand it completely, which is why it pisses me off so much. Sean -- *** Sean Casey sean@ms.uky.edu, sean@ukma.bitnet *** The Empire Nutcase {rutgers,uunet,cbosgd}!ukma!sean *** University of Kentucky / Lexington Kentucky / USA *** "Hmmm, I wonder what this button does..."
dillon@CORY.BERKELEY.EDU (Matt Dillon) (03/24/88)
>No, but I *really* hate owning a machine that commodore has all but >abandoned. I will *not*, repeat, will not, buy another commodore computer. >Perhaps if commodore hears this they will realize that there are some >very unhappy users out there. > >For example, how about the CEBIT announcement about enhanced graphics >chips being available sometime (with no interlace) for the 500 and >2000. THERE'S A NUMBER MISSING IN THERE, COMMODORE. HEAR ME??? Essentially, you are pissed off because CA fixed some problems with the expansion bus and added some traces to the A500/A2000 motherboards for future expandability, and are now cashing in on their previous planning. Frankly, it makes no sense for a company to pull itself into bankruptcy just to satisfy a small number of users. > >>The 2500 is a 2000 plus the add-on boards you mention. Is that so >>difficult for you to understand? > >I understand it completely, which is why it pisses me off so much. > >Sean It really is not as bad as all that. Sure, A1000 owners can't have *everything* the A500/A2000 owners can have, but they can have most of it if they want it. I find myself in a particularly good position to argue here, having an A1000. I am satisfied with my current configuration. I have a microbotics Starboard II with an SCSI interface, two external floppies, and plan to buy an SCSI HD in the near future. When (If) I ever upgrade to an A2000, I will be able to move every iota of external hardware to the new machine. All my hardware will work, any software I have will be completely compatible... And for those people who really go for professional systems it's the software that costs the $$, not the hardware. Even though I'm not one of those types, I still don't feel like I'm getting the short end of the stick! Sure, there are some things which may not be moveable or upgradable. The world turns and if you stop, it will move on without you. Hell, people still use PDP11/70s for godsakes! Do you think they are missing out on something?? you bet they are, same as the people who still use slide rules. (except the people with slide rules will be in a somewhat better position if we have a nuclear war). Do you think I intend to make my A1000 my base computer for the rest of my life? NO WAY Hosay (ay = e with accent mark). -Matt
bishop@skat.usc.edu (Brian Bishop) (03/24/88)
In article <8803240324.AA28576@cory.Berkeley.EDU> dillon@CORY.BERKELEY.EDU (Matt Dillon) writes: >>For example, how about the CEBIT announcement about enhanced graphics >>chips being available sometime (with no interlace) for the 500 and >>2000. THERE'S A NUMBER MISSING IN THERE, COMMODORE. HEAR ME??? > > Essentially, you are pissed off because CA fixed some problems >with the expansion bus and added some traces to the A500/A2000 >motherboards for future expandability, and are now cashing in on their >previous planning. Frankly, it makes no sense for a company to pull > It's really ironic that one of the main gripes about the 2000 was that it cost more and had no improvements over the 1000 other than IBM compatibility. (I'm not saying the original poster said that) Apparently some of those benefits are just now showing themselves. If I had known this was coming I'd have thought over the trade-in offer much differently. > > Sure, there are some things which may not be moveable or upgradable. >The world turns and if you stop, it will move on without you. Hell, people >still use PDP11/70s for godsakes! Do you think they are missing out on [ We've still got two KL10's..... ] I started with an Apple II. Not plus, just a two. Great learning machine - built in mini-assembler, etc. When the Mac came out I couldn't believe it. Went into hock to get one. Semi-happiness reigns. Bitmapped graphics! Then the Amiga. At first I was mad. It seemed like they had taken every Mac feature and gone one better: A little more resolution, color, double-sided disks, coprocessors, bus access, etc. :-) I went into sub-hock and bought a package with the free monitor (thanks CBM! It's really a *great* monitor). Two years later. The Amiga's paid off. The Mac isn't. The Amiga's value increases daily (subjective). I still have the Mac - it's better for print- ing (but that's about it), and I couldn't get very much for it anyway. It's too obsolete! What with the Mac Plus, Mac SE, and Mac II. I can't get double sided drives or a new set of ROM's because -horror!- I got a THIRD PARTY MEMORY UPGRADE!!! With this lawsuit and all, I really can't tell big fruit from big blue anymore. Way to go Commodore, keep it up!! brian bishop ---> bishop@usc-ecl.ARPA (uscvax,sdcvdef,engvax,scgvaxd,smeagol) ---> usc-skat!bishop.UUCP "You will be required to do wrong no matter where you go. It is the basic condition of life, to be required to violate your own identity. At some time, every creature that lives must do so. It is the ultimate shadow, the defeat of creation; this is the curse at work, the curse that feeds on all life. Everywhere in the universe." - Wilbur Mercer, founder of Mercerism have a nice day fnord.
trudel@topaz.rutgers.edu (Jonathan D.) (03/24/88)
> >One question: Do you like beating a *really* dead horse? > No, but I *really* hate owning a machine that commodore has all but > abandoned. Read this as : No, I don't beat dead horses. I beat dead mares. I doubt that ANYONE really wants to hear this AGAIN. flame_commodore_because_they_rooked_me++ /* who's keeping track of this var, anyhow?*/ > I will *not*, repeat, will not, buy another commodore computer. Then don't. If you don't like Commodore philosophy, don't support Commodore. > Perhaps if commodore hears this they will realize that there are some > very unhappy users out there. I know the Commodore people know many people like you. BTW, I own only an A1000. I don't feel rooked at all. *I* have a machine that is usable. You know, I wonder how happy the people who own Mac 512's and Mac Plusses are about the SE and the Mac II...
rminnich@udel.EDU (Ron Minnich) (03/24/88)
In article <930@rmi.UUCP> kkaempf@rmi.UUCP (Klaus Kaempf) writes: > >: I guess the biggest questions would be about availibility and cost. >Availibility: 4th Quarter 1988 >Cost: A 2500UX (Includes A2000, A2620 (68020CPU, 68881FPU, 68851MMU), > A2024 Hi-Res Monitor, 100MB Harddisk (SCSI), Tape Backup > System (60MB ?) and **REAL** AT&T Unix V.3) > will cost appr. 13000.- DM ( ca. $7500) Arg. No Ethernet port? You can't sell it to a company or university that way! Arg Arg. $7500 ?? If this comes out in 4Q 88 they are going to be competing with fast machines with bigger disks that are in the $4-5 range (no i can not mention a company). This is just too high. >C= said that they tried X-Windows but it was too slow. They showed a VERY >fast windowing system based on their own code. So its neither X-Windows >nor NEWS. It was also only a demo version. The deal is, you have to interoperate if you want to be a workstation. That means standards, like NFS and X windows, slow or not, unreliable or not. I haven't seen a workstation come through here in a year that did not support enet, nfs, and X10 or (now) X11. And the ENET port is ALWAYS built in- not add-on. >The UX has the 68851. This chip is NOT included in the standard A2620 board. >The Hardware is REAL, the Software is REAL. I've seen it ! As Fred Fish commented in Amazing Computing, C= probably can not compete in this market. I hate to admit it, but this announcement tends to confirm Fred's statement. :-( -- ron (rminnich@udel.edu)
morgan@brambo.UUCP (Morgan W. Jones) (03/25/88)
In article <7735@oberon.USC.EDU> papa@pollux.usc.edu () writes: >were discussed. Mr. Gould STRESSED "the A2000 will remain compatible with >all new attributes of new Amiga products". I read this to mean that the 2000 can be upgraded (ie. plug in a card and/or replace a few chips). Comments? Commodore? -- Morgan Jones - Bramalea Software Inc. morgan@brambo.UUCP ...!{uunet!mnetor!lsuc!ncrcan, utgpu!telly}!brambo!morgan "These might not even be my opinions, let alone anyone else's."
lishka@uwslh.UUCP (Christopher Lishka) (03/25/88)
This posting is a request to keep this discussion from becoming
another Commodore-bashing and name-calling series. If I remember,
nearly the exact same series of postings happened several months ago.
Someone recently started another piracy discussion in comp.sys.cbm and
comp.sys.amiga...do we really want another discussion in the same vein
at this point?
This is just a request. We all have our opinions on the matter,
and I am sure that Commodore has heard them by now (from the previous
discussion on this matter). Like Dan Schein at CATS said, it might be
time to just sit back with a Brewskie and cool off.
BTW, I bought an Amiga 1000 a few months ago with full knowledge
that it was no longer being supported and that Commodore had gone
ahead and enhanced the 500 and 2000 so that they now had better
hardware. But I still enjoy my 1000 and *1702* monitor, and think
that it is a great system. Hell, I don't even have Extra-Halfbright
Mode! ;-)
-Chris--
Chris Lishka /lishka@uwslh.uucp
Wisconsin State Lab of Hygiene <-lishka%uwslh.uucp@rsch.wisc.edu
"My cockatiels control my mind!"\{seismo, harvard,topaz,...}!uwvax!uwslh!lishkadaveh@cbmvax.UUCP (Dave Haynie) (03/25/88)
in article <7770@oberon.USC.EDU>, papa@pollux.usc.edu (Marco Papa) says: >>Will the 2500 have a 32-bit bus? > I doubt. As I understan it is the current version of the B2000, plus the > C-A 68020/68881 that has been floating at Commodore for quite a while, plus > the new Bridgeboard, with an Intel 80286 instead of the 8088 in the original > Bridgeboard. As such it will probably be available as soon as those two boards > go into production, which could be any time soon (if they haven't already). Correct-a-mundo! I was waiting for someone here to catch on. The A2500 is basically a package deal. They did say it would ship with the new Agnus and Denise. But it's nothing you can't do with your A2000. The A3000 will be a new machine, no details yet other than 68030 based. And that all of your old A2000 cards will work just dandy in it. > The 286 BridgeCard is basically an IBM PC AT clone on a single board. There is actually a smallish daughterboard, but PC-AT in a single slot is a good description. > -- Marco -- Dave Haynie "The B2000 Guy" Commodore-Amiga "The Crew That Never Rests" {ihnp4|uunet|rutgers}!cbmvax!daveh PLINK: D-DAVE H BIX: hazy "I can't relax, 'cause I'm a Boinger!"
daveh@cbmvax.UUCP (Dave Haynie) (03/25/88)
in article <247@sdrc.UUCP>, crgabb@sdrc.UUCP (Rob Gabbard) says: > Summary: Availibility ? Cost ? >> [Some announcement of A2500AT and A2500UX packages] > Does anyone have any further info on this announcement ? > I guess the biggest questions would be about availibility and cost. I was set > to buy a 2000 next week until this. DON'T PANIC It seems a bit was lost between the press conference in Hannover and Usenet here. Having been at the press conference, I might be of some help here. The announced systems are bundled A2000 packages, I don't even know if they'll be sold the same way in the US Market or not. > - Is the windowing shell on the A2500UX (and A3000 I would suppose) based on > X Windows or NEWS ? Commodore would be making a BIG mistake if it were not. The windowing system is a custom windowing system, but more of a low-level window manager. For the UNIX user, it give you a way to start up new virtual terminals in windows, each with their own shell and some other attributes, such as terminal emulations. There are also function calls for programmable graphics. I believe that things like X or NEWS would sit on top of this underlying window manager when ported to Amiga UNIX. > - Do the AT and UX have 68851 chips ? I would think the UX would have to. Yup. Current plans, as best they've told me, say that all A2620 boards will have 68851s on them. > - Will UNIX be available for the 2000 with the x020 board since it has a > 68851 ? > - Was any hardware shown or is all of this VAPORWARE for the moment ? We showed the Amiga UNIX, a real AT&T V.3, running on an A2000 and A2620 board at the show. Even let hackers do stuff on it. Runs like a champ. I really don't know how close the UNIX is to being complete, but it does work real nicely now, you can edit and compile on it, its fast, etc. You really won't believe how fast the text scroll is on the thing. Hardware, in the form of the A2620, is nearly complete, and may be available before UNIX. > - Is a 2000 upgradable to a 2500 ? (If so, how much ?) A2000+A2620(2meg)+A2286+A2090A+40MegDrive+NewCustomChips+Monitor == A2500AT A2000+A2620(4meg)+A2090A+100MegDrive+NewCustomChips+Monitor+UNIX == A2500UX Or some such arrangement. The package deal monitor options are supposed to be your choice of A2024 monitor (1008x800x2 monochrome) or A1950 monitor (15kHz/31kHz "bisync" monitor, supposed to have really nice dot pitch, etc). > Rob Gabbard | UUNET: uunet!sdrc!crgabb -- Dave Haynie "The B2000 Guy" Commodore-Amiga "The Crew That Never Rests" {ihnp4|uunet|rutgers}!cbmvax!daveh PLINK: D-DAVE H BIX: hazy "I can't relax, 'cause I'm a Boinger!"
daveh@cbmvax.UUCP (Dave Haynie) (03/25/88)
in article <8649@g.ms.uky.edu>, sean@ms.uky.edu (Sean Casey) says: > > All you have to do is buy the A2620 (68020 board) and the > > A2286 (80286 bridgeboard) plug them in your A2000 and > > functionally you have a A2500AT. > Of course, I will be able to buy an A2620 and A2286 and A2090 that I can plug > directly into my A1000, since it isn't an outdated machine either. No, your A1000 doesn't have slots. Look sometime, you won't find any. So you need a place to plug this stuff in. When the ASDG 2000-n-1 box comes out, I suspect that will let you add the three cards mentioned above with no trouble. > Sean -- Dave Haynie "The B2000 Guy" Commodore-Amiga "The Crew That Never Rests" {ihnp4|uunet|rutgers}!cbmvax!daveh PLINK: D-DAVE H BIX: hazy "I can't relax, 'cause I'm a Boinger!"
cmcmanis%pepper@Sun.COM (Chuck McManis) (03/25/88)
In article <1712@louie.udel.EDU> rminnich@udel.EDU (Ron Minnich) writes:
->>Availibility: 4th Quarter 1988
->>Cost: A 2500UX (Includes A2000, A2620 (68020CPU, 68881FPU, 68851MMU),
->> A2024 Hi-Res Monitor, 100MB Harddisk (SCSI), Tape Backup
->> System (60MB ?) and **REAL** AT&T Unix V.3)
->> will cost appr. 13000.- DM ( ca. $7500)
-> Arg. No Ethernet port? You can't sell it to a company or university
->that way!
-> Arg Arg. $7500 ?? If this comes out in 4Q 88 they are going to
->be competing with fast machines with bigger disks that are in the
->$4-5 range (no i can not mention a company). This is just too high.
[Sounds like the mythical Next beast ^^^^]
Well, if you add ethernet it goes to $8.4K. It would be cheaper than a
3/50 with a SCSI disk/tape (about $9K). And definitely cheaper than a
Mac II considering that the color is built in and the keyboard is a
standard accessory. So I don't think C/A priced it incorrectly. Of
course there is a chance that this price is a total sham, like the original
$1495 estimated price of the 2000 and the 'significantly less than $1000'
sidecar (which came in at $995 I believe).
--Chuck McManis
uucp: {anywhere}!sun!cmcmanis BIX: cmcmanis ARPAnet: cmcmanis@sun.com
These opinions are my own and no one elses, but you knew that didn't you.rlcarr@athena.mit.edu (Richard L. Carreiro) (03/25/88)
In article <8659@g.ms.uky.edu> sean@ms.uky.edu (Sean Casey) writes: }In article <Mar.23.10.33.28.1988.22000@topaz.rutgers.edu} trudel@topaz.rutgers.edu (Jonathan D.) writes: }}} Of course, I will be able to buy an A2620 and A2286 and A2090 that I can plug }}} directly into my A1000, since it isn't an outdated machine either. }}} Of course. }}One question: Do you like beating a *really* dead horse? You just don't understand, do you John? }No, but I *really* hate owning a machine that commodore has all but }abandoned. I will *not*, repeat, will not, buy another commodore computer. }Perhaps if commodore hears this they will realize that there are some }very unhappy users out there. Yes, Mr. Casey - you have hit the nail squarely on the head. Us loyal A1000 owners, whose purchases helped to SAVE Commodore, are now being $%#%$*@#'ed over for our troubles. I, too, will not buy another Commodore machine. Hell, I'm not going to risk being burned again. Maybe the next move is a 113 pin Zorro board. It wouldn't surprise me. I'm not against the A2000, or A2500, or whatever. But DAMN it, they could make sure that we can upgrade. As it stands you need 3rd party stuff (someone correct me if I'm wrong, please) to make the A1000 the equivalent of the A2000. Now there's an example of fine CBM "Ready, Fire, Aim" support of users. It's a --ckin' SIN that it looks like A1000 owners won't be able to get the new graphics chips. Well, Commodore, here's another customer you've just lost, and you can be sure that I'll not recommend the Amiga to anyone I know. }For example, how about the CEBIT announcement about enhanced graphics }chips being available sometime (with no interlace) for the 500 and }2000. THERE'S A NUMBER MISSING IN THERE, COMMODORE. HEAR ME??? I hear and agree. Unfortunately, I am not CBM. Do they hear? Probably. Will they do anything? Doubtful. }Sean One more former Commodore customer signing off. Reminds me of the press-shift-and-alt-keys-and-hit-a-function-key-and-insert-a-disk hack message (and I don't mean "Amiga, born a champion.") ******************************************************************************* * Richard L. Carreiro "Havlicek stole the ball!!!!" * * rlcarr@athena.mit.edu -- Johnny Most 4/15/65 * *******************************************************************************
cmcmanis%pepper@Sun.COM (Chuck McManis) (03/25/88)
I think most every one who reads this list is probably pretty dismayed
at the lack of maturity a few folks have shown here. I hope you guys
and gals didn't buy a Sun 3/50, cause guess what ? When we announced the
Sun 4/110 you couldn't make your 3/50 in to one. I don't think anyone
was suprised. All this stuff about people who own 1000's being gypped
because they can't plug in 2000 boards is a total crock. Sure, the
people who bought the 1000's pulled C/A's collective butt out of the
fire, and Andy and crowd can trace some fraction of their salary to
what we gave them but it wasn't a loan for gods sake. Sheesh, if you
bought a 1000 when they came out then you got the chance to be one of
the 'gurus' of the machine. A Peter Norton equivalent. Hell your machine
is no different now then it was then and at that time you could justify
paying $2000 dollars for it. Frankly, I'm disgusted with this attitude,
and if you want to badmouth C/A your free to do so, just be damn sure
you tell people why you think so poorly of them. If you wanted a computer
that would never be upgraded you should have bought an Atari :-)
--Chuck McManis
uucp: {anywhere}!sun!cmcmanis BIX: cmcmanis ARPAnet: cmcmanis@sun.com
These opinions are my own and no one elses, but you knew that didn't you.rminnich@udel.EDU (UDel USENET News Service [agent: Chuck Cranor]) (03/25/88)
In article <46913@sun.uucp> cmcmanis@sun.UUCP (Chuck McManis) writes: >[Sounds like the mythical Next beast ^^^^] > >Well, if you add ethernet it goes to $8.4K. It would be cheaper than a >3/50 with a SCSI disk/tape (about $9K). And definitely cheaper than a >Mac II considering that the color is built in and the keyboard is a >standard accessory. So I don't think C/A priced it incorrectly. Of You are right, i am wrong, i hope. No the machine i am mentioning is not the Mythical Next beast. But it is probably gonna end up being mythical anyway. I hope they can stick to that price, it will for sure kill the Mac II (one hopes- but then Apple's lawyers may kill the Mac II first) and it should sell Amigas. Sure wish C= does OK here. How about an Amix that can run diskless, or without hard disk? How much would that be? BTW I am another A1000/NO EHB owner who bought an A500. I also used to use an 11/70 for what that's worth. I like both machines, and intend to buy more machines from C=. So There. -- ron (rminnich@udel.edu)
rogers@ncrcce.StPaul.NCR.COM (Bob Rogers) (03/25/88)
I have read that the A2000 with the 8088 Bridge is slower than a PC due to the amount of time required to update the screen. Will an A2000 with the 68020 board and 8088 Bridge run at full PC speed? How about an A2000 with only the 80286 board? Or (finally) how about the 68020 and 80286? What I'm getting at it is: "what processor(s) do I have to replace to get PC speed screen updates using a Bridge card in an A2000"? What monitor(s) are suitable for use with the non-interlace chips? Is the flicker completely gone? -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Rogers rogers@StPaul.NCR.COM NCR Comten, St. Paul, MN
morgan@brambo.UUCP (Morgan W. Jones) (03/25/88)
What is with these people complaining that the 1000 is obsolete?
Commodore intro'd the machine, what, five years ago? Any other
company would have just abandoned the machine. Commodore is pretty
much unique in that they offered an EXCELLENT upgrade offer, made the
new machine compatible with the old one, AND NEW RELEASES OF THE OS
ARE AVAILABLE FOR THE 1000.
If you want a machine which is just as obsolete now as it was the day
it was introduced, buy a PC clone.
If the 2500's weren't compatible with the 2000, I'd agree with getting
away from Commodore. But since it's not, it's obvious that Commodore
is trying to give people more bang for their buck than any other
company, in addition to having the best machine.
Sean, you say that you will never buy another C-A product. What will
you buy? I sure don't know of any other non-cp/m style (ie. ms-dos)
machine where you get the same compatibility options.
--
Morgan Jones - Bramalea Software Inc. morgan@brambo.UUCP
...!{uunet!mnetor!lsuc!ncrcan, utgpu!telly}!brambo!morgan
"These might not even be my opinions, let alone anyone else's."jojo@astroatc.UUCP (Jon Wesener) (03/25/88)
In article <1712@louie.udel.EDU> rminnich@udel.EDU (Ron Minnich) writes: >In article <930@rmi.UUCP> kkaempf@rmi.UUCP (Klaus Kaempf) writes: >> will cost appr. 13000.- DM ( ca. $7500) > Arg. No Ethernet port? You can't sell it to a company or university >that way! > Arg Arg. $7500 ?? If this comes out in 4Q 88 they are going to >be competing with fast machines with bigger disks that are in the >$4-5 range (no i can not mention a company). This is just too high. I'd like to see these companies. Have you seen how much an equivalently configured MAC II with their UN*X is!! Or have you looked at the projected prices of the NEXT machine? Now those are expensive. This isn't a fire sale 3b2 ;-) The only thing I can think of for $4-$5000 would be some sort of IBM AT box running one of several UN*X's. (Gag) >>C= said that they tried X-Windows but it was too slow. They showed a VERY >>fast windowing system based on their own code. So its neither X-Windows >>nor NEWS. It was also only a demo version. > The deal is, you have to interoperate if you want to be a workstation. >That means standards, like NFS and X windows, slow or not, unreliable >or not. I haven't seen a workstation come through here in a year >that did not support enet, nfs, and X10 or (now) X11. Well, this leaves it wide open for a 3rd party to bring X to the Amiga. (Not something I want to do, believe me -- that's a lot of source.) I can believe it will be slooooow, too. I do agree that if you're trying to enter the workstation market, an ethernet board is mandatory. But if you're trying to bring UN*X boxes into the home!... We at work, are hoping that this year or the next will be the year we get a decent UN*X box in for the home. They still are a little pricey, but we're getting there. --j -- jon wesener ... {seismo | harvard | ihnp4} ! {uwvax | cs.wisc.edu} ! astroatc!jojo "I say, why are those buildings swaying like trees?"
ali@polya.STANFORD.EDU (Ali T. Ozer) (03/26/88)
In article <46913@sun.uucp> cmcmanis@sun.UUCP (Chuck McManis) writes: >->> will cost appr. 13000.- DM ( ca. $7500) >->$4-5 range (no i can not mention a company). This is just too high. >[Sounds like the mythical Next beast ^^^^] ["NeXT", Chuck, not Next. ^^^^] It's usually not the case that the price of a computer in Germany is American price * exchange rate. If the German price is supposed to be 13000DM, it's American list price might very well be half that, or even less... (At least this has been the case with Amiga prices everytime I've been back there!) BTW, I have a two-year old 1000, and I'm not feeling abondoned after having heard about the new machines... I might if Commodore stopped making machines that ran Amiga software, but otherwise I'm glad to see Commodore making an effort in being ahead in the technology race. [And that's my 0.035DM.] Ali Ozer, ali@polya.stanford.edu
page@swan.ulowell.edu (Bob Page) (03/26/88)
cmcmanis@sun.UUCP (Chuck McManis) wrote: >if you add ethernet it goes to $8.4K. It would be cheaper than a 3/50 >with a SCSI disk/tape (about $9K). And definitely cheaper than a Mac II It will be interesting to see how the Amiga 2500xx compares with the April 7 announcment from Sun. :-) ..Bob -- Bob Page, U of Lowell CS Dept. page@swan.ulowell.edu ulowell!page "Nicaragua" is Spanish for "Vietnam."
artw@pnet01.cts.com (Art Weiss) (03/26/88)
If you want PC speed screen updates the best way to do it is to get a PC
display card and and monitor. You will then get normal PC speed. No chips need
to be changed. The processing speed of the Bridgecard is identical to a normal
4.77 mhz PC. With the AT Bridgecard I would expect the same to be true. As
long as you use the Amiga for the display it's going to be slower than if you
use a PC display card and monitor.
...Artewhac@well.UUCP (Leo 'Bols Ewhac' Schwab) (03/26/88)
[ I guess I *am* in a hostile mood today. Don't worry, it'll pass... ] In article <3520@cbmvax.UUCP> daveh@cbmvax.UUCP (Dave Haynie) writes: >No, your A1000 doesn't have slots. Look sometime, you won't find any. So you >need a place to plug this stuff in. When the ASDG 2000-n-1 box comes out, I > ^^^^ >suspect that will let you add the three cards mentioned above with no >trouble. > Um.... Shouldn't that be 'if'? Yes, Perry, I am trying to annoy you. I deliberately passed up the 2000 upgrade deal as well as other upgrade paths based on your claim that the 2000-and-1 would be available shortly, and based on my perception that you would deliver what you promised, namely, a rock-solid product. I have this 1000 under my fingers that's screaming for a hard disk, which I can't plug in, because I don't trust passing the bus through a SOTS box into your cage, and no one makes a hard disk controller in the old Zorro form factor (again, to fit in your Mr. C cage). I'm growing impatient. Sorry, but that's the way I feel. _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ Leo L. Schwab -- The Guy in The Cape ihnp4!ptsfa -\ \_ -_ Recumbent Bikes: dual ---> !{well,unicom}!ewhac O----^o The Only Way To Fly. hplabs / (pronounced "AE-wack") "Work FOR? I don't work FOR anybody! I'm just having fun." -- The Doctor
DMasterson@cup.portal.com (03/26/88)
In message <4012@bloom-beacon.MIT.EDU>, rlcarr@athena.mit.edu writes: >In article <8659@g.ms.uky.edu> sean@ms.uky.edu (Sean Casey) writes: >}In article <Mar.23.10.33.28.1988.22000@topaz.rutgers.edu} trudel@topaz.rutgers.edu (Jonathan D.) writes: >}}} Of course, I will be able to buy an A2620 and A2286 and A2090 that I can plug >}}} directly into my A1000, since it isn't an outdated machine either. >}}} Of course. >}}One question: Do you like beating a *really* dead horse? > >You just don't understand, do you John? > You sure that you do?? As someone rather famous once said, "I like to think that there are always possibilities". As someone else once said, "the rumors of my death are greatly exaggerated". You have a low-cost personal computer with great power. The A1000 is NOT an A2000, but (with a little luck) it could be d**n close (right, ASDG?). Your machine is now out-dated (like the original MAC and the original IBM-PC), but its not dead. Accept that, work with it -- there are still deals to be made and programs to develop. >******************************************************************************* >* Richard L. Carreiro "Havlicek stole the ball!!!!" * >* rlcarr@athena.mit.edu -- Johnny Most 4/15/65 * >******************************************************************************* David Masterson DMasterson@cup.portal.com <Be all that YOU can be -- with the Amiga>
R38@PSUVM.BITNET (aka Marc Rifkin) (03/26/88)
FINALLY, someone sees the light: In article <311@uwslh.UUCP>, lishka@uwslh.UUCP (Christopher Lishka) says: > > This posting is a request to keep this discussion from becoming >another Commodore-bashing and name-calling series. If I remember, >nearly the exact same series of postings happened several months ago. >Someone recently started another piracy discussion in comp.sys.cbm and >comp.sys.amiga...do we really want another discussion in the same vein >at this point? > > This is just a request. We all have our opinions on the matter, >and I am sure that Commodore has heard them by now (from the previous >discussion on this matter). Like Dan Schein at CATS said, it might be >time to just sit back with a Brewskie and cool off. > > BTW, I bought an Amiga 1000 a few months ago with full knowledge >that it was no longer being supported and that Commodore had gone >ahead and enhanced the 500 and 2000 so that they now had better >hardware. But I still enjoy my 1000 and *1702* monitor, and think >that it is a great system. Hell, I don't even have Extra-Halfbright >Mode! ;-) > > -Chris-- >Chris Lishka /lishka@uwslh.uucp >Wisconsin State Lab of Hygiene <-lishka%uwslh.uucp@rsch.wisc.edu >"My cockatiels control my mind!"\{seismo, harvard,topaz,...}!uwvax!uwslh!lishka What more can I say. ------- ____ _ __ __ __ \Marc Rifkin \ / / /| /_ / / \ of \ / \R38@PSUVM.EDU \ /--- /-| /__ /_/ / _\ \\ // \132 Beaver Hall\ / \ \\// E R T E C H , Inc.\Univ. Park, Pa.\ "No Matter Where You go, \/ --=======-- \16802 \ There You Are." -BB & MM \814-862-6892 \
david@ms.uky.edu (David Herron -- Resident E-mail Hack) (03/26/88)
Just how much is involved in using the new coprocessors?
Is it just a matter of running a couple extra memory address lines
to the chip? If so, what's the matter? Why not do some alteration
to your machine to do it? That is, take out the old coprocessor,
attach in a new socket above it, run the necessary signals to the
new socket, and insert a new coprocessor.
et voila -- new coprocessor.
or is it a little more involved than that? Maybe you need to have
to arrange to have >512K memory at the right place on the motherboard?
--
<---- David Herron -- The E-Mail guy <david@ms.uky.edu>
<---- or: {rutgers,uunet,cbosgd}!ukma!david, david@UKMA.BITNET
<----
<---- "Oh, I dunno -- I think Sean would be rather tasty!" -- Beckydavid@ms.uky.edu (David Herron -- Resident E-mail Hack) (03/26/88)
In article <3517@cbmvax.UUCP> daveh@cbmvax.UUCP (Dave Haynie) writes: >A2000+A2620(2meg)+A2286+A2090A+40MegDrive+NewCustomChips+Monitor == A2500AT >A2000+A2620(4meg)+A2090A+100MegDrive+NewCustomChips+Monitor+UNIX == A2500UX hmmm... Are NewCustomChips available for current A2000 owners? Will (I'm not going to ask what my roomate just asked regarding french onion dip) the memory on the A2620 interoperate with memory already in the A2000? (i.e. if I buy the ASDG memory board like I'm planning on doing, will I be .. er .. screwed?) Do I have to get the A2090A in order to run the Unix? Or will drivers be available for the SDP (whenever that board gets out)? i.e. could I build a A2500UX from the A2000 sitting on the other desk? um, wouldn't part of the A2286 being soldering sockets into those spots on the motherboard where the current PC slots are? Like, to give us some 16-bit sockets? -- <---- David Herron -- The E-Mail guy <david@ms.uky.edu> <---- or: {rutgers,uunet,cbosgd}!ukma!david, david@UKMA.BITNET <---- <---- "Oh, I dunno -- I think Sean would be rather tasty!" -- Becky
lel@wuphys.UUCP (Lyle E. Levine) (03/27/88)
In article <644@ncrcce.StPaul.NCR.COM> rogers@ncrcce.StPaul.NCR.COM (PUT YOUR NAME HERE) writes: > >I have read that the A2000 with the 8088 Bridge is slower than a PC due to >the amount of time required to update the screen. Will an A2000 with the >68020 board and 8088 Bridge run at full PC speed? How about an A2000 with Don't know this one but I rather doubt it... >only the 80286 board? Or (finally) how about the 68020 and 80286? What I'm It was announced a while back that Commodore came up with some new magic that allows the screen to keep up with the new 10MHz AT board. I don't know how they did it.. Could someone at Commodore explain how this was done? I didn't think it was do-able... >getting at it is: "what processor(s) do I have to replace to get PC speed >screen updates using a Bridge card in an A2000"? See above. > >What monitor(s) are suitable for use with the non-interlace chips? Is the >flicker completely gone? I'd recommend the new NEC multisync II. I LOVE the display! I just saw an add for one for UNDER $500. This beats the best price I have seen for Mitsubishi's Diamond Scan Monitor. As for the flicker, I would be surprized if Commodore went to the trouble of fixing up the screen display without using a high enough scan rate to eliminate the flicker. I think you need about 50 KHz. >-- >----------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Bob Rogers rogers@StPaul.NCR.COM >NCR Comten, St. Paul, MN ========== IBM is a Division of Sirius Cybernetics Corporation "their fundamental design flaws are completely hidden by their superficial design flaws." - "So Long And Thanks For All The Fish" Lyle Levine: Paths -> ihnp4!wuphys!lel uunet!wucs!wuphys!lel
ford@kenobi.UUCP (Mike Ditto) (03/28/88)
Posting-Front-End: GNU Emacs 18.41.10 of Fri Oct 2 1987 on kenobi (usg-unix-v) In article <46913@sun.uucp> cmcmanis%pepper@Sun.COM (Chuck McManis) writes: > In article <1712@louie.udel.EDU> rminnich@udel.EDU (Ron Minnich) writes: > -> Arg Arg. $7500 ?? If this comes out in 4Q 88 they are going to > ->be competing with fast machines with bigger disks that are in the > ->$4-5 range (no i can not mention a company). This is just too high. > [Sounds like the mythical Next beast ^^^^] If it's the same rumor I heard, this certain unmentionable company will be offerring an upgrade for owners of its low-priced 68000 systems. For about $4000 they give a 68020, 4 Meg ram, 200Meg disk, graphics blitter, and a "Unix-like" operating system. The "Unix-like" scares me off, so C=A doesn't have to worry about me switching brands. SysVr3 was a very good move, in my opinion. But "J. Random Consumer" doesn't know the difference, so I would be worried about competition from the lower end. I think C=A won't have any problems with performance comparisons, though; I heard of some awful hardware kludges that will keep this rumored machine from going very fast. Probably only 16-bit memory, for example. All the above are rumors from unofficial sources, and should be duly disregarded, as always. I wish the A2500UX could run AmigaDOS at the same time, like the bridgeboard allows. Right now, I run AmigaDOS and always have a window to a Unix machine. The A2500UX should combine both these functions into one box. -=] Ford [=- "Once there were parking lots, (In Real Life: Mike Ditto) now it's a peaceful oasis. ford%kenobi@crash.CTS.COM This was a Pizza Hut, ...!sdcsvax!crash!kenobi!ford now it's all covered with daisies." -- Talking Heads
schein@cbmvax.UUCP (Dan Schein CATS) (03/28/88)
(If you can read this line, your line eater is broke :-) In article <375@brambo.UUCP> morgan@brambo.UUCP (Morgan W. Jones) writes: >In article <7735@oberon.USC.EDU> papa@pollux.usc.edu () writes: >>were discussed. Mr. Gould STRESSED "the A2000 will remain compatible with >>all new attributes of new Amiga products". > >I read this to mean that the 2000 can be upgraded (ie. plug in a card >and/or replace a few chips). > >Comments? Commodore? > Comments? I think by now, myself and others (CBM employed and not) have commented this issue to death. I just don't understand why people who are supposed to be of above average smarts, can not understand that the 2500 series of Amiga's are simply 2000's w/add ons (plug ins). Can you? Then to make matters worse, I see the re-hashing of "why the A1000 can not become a 2000 (or 500)". Did we not discuss all this 6 months ago when we introduced the 2000? Remember all the questions of "can I modify my A100 to use the new fat AGNUS"? I do! Remember all the bitching and moaning because of the new Zorro ][ slot's? I do! Come on folks, we have been through all this already, lets move forward - not backwards. The 2500 series Amiga's -=> ARE <=- 2000's with a combination of boards added to them. The new chip set was designed to replace the chip set used in the A500 and B2000. Commodore has not forgotten the A1000, but in the same respect we can not let the A1000 stop us from moving forward. Remember the A1000 upgrade offer? We did give you a chance to upgrade, thats more than most computer companies do. We try damn hard to make new products as backwards compatible as possible, and I think that we have done a very good job of it so far. >Morgan Jones - Bramalea Software Inc. morgan@brambo.UUCP -- Dan Schein uucp: {ihnp4|allegra|burdvax|rutgers}!cbmvax!schein Commodore AMIGA ARPANET: cbmvax!schein@uunet.uu.net 1200 Wilson Drive Bix: dschein Plink: Dan*CATS West Chester PA 19380 phone: (215) 431-9100 ext. 9542 +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ Call BERKS AMIGA BBS - 24 Hrs - 3/12/2400 Baud - 40Meg - 215/678-7691 +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ I help Commodore by supporting the AMIGA. Commodore supports me by allowing me to form my own suggestions and comments.
daveh@cbmvax.UUCP (Dave Haynie) (03/29/88)
in article <930@rmi.UUCP>, kkaempf@rmi.UUCP (Klaus Kaempf) says: > : - Do the AT and UX have 68851 chips ? I would think the UX would have to. > The UX has the 68851. This chip is NOT included in the standard A2620 board. Yes it is. Or, to put it another way, there's no provision on the A2620 to ship a board without the '851. The '881 could be made optional, from a design point of view. Ultimately, it comes down to how they want to sell the thing. > Klaus -- Dave Haynie "The B2000 Guy" Commodore-Amiga "The Crew That Never Rests" {ihnp4|uunet|rutgers}!cbmvax!daveh PLINK: D-DAVE H BIX: hazy "I can't relax, 'cause I'm a Boinger!"
daveh@cbmvax.UUCP (Dave Haynie) (03/29/88)
in article <1712@louie.udel.EDU>, rminnich@udel.EDU (Ron Minnich) says: > Arg Arg. $7500 ?? One thing to consider. The packaged system is specifically for the German and European market; as I understand it, it may not be sold packaged in the US. Commodore is the top selling personal computer vendor in West Germany, and number three in Europe. Thus, for those areas, things can be oriented quite a bit differently than they could in the USA. > The deal is, you have to interoperate if you want to be a workstation. > That means standards, like NFS and X windows, slow or not, unreliable > or not. Rico's windowing system under Amiga UNIX doesn't preclude the use of X or News, just as Intuition in AmigaOS doesn't (both of these had reportedly been ported to run under the Amiga environment). What it gives you is an extremely fast built-in windowing package for handling most UNIX applications, which tend to be terminal oriented (pick the terminal of your choice). Amiga users are used to having several "virtual terminal" windows available at once, each with a program or shell running in them; you don't want to loose this feature just 'cause you're running UNIX. You would have to add on the Ethernet card, but it's been available for some time now. > ron (rminnich@udel.edu) -- Dave Haynie "The B2000 Guy" Commodore-Amiga "The Crew That Never Rests" {ihnp4|uunet|rutgers}!cbmvax!daveh PLINK: D-DAVE H BIX: hazy "I can't relax, 'cause I'm a Boinger!"
nor1675@dsacg2.UUCP (Michael Figg) (03/29/88)
In article <Mar.24.01.10.18.1988.16611@topaz.rutgers.edu>, trudel@topaz.rutgers.edu (Jonathan D.) writes: > > I will *not*, repeat, will not, buy another commodore computer. > > Perhaps if commodore hears this they will realize that there are some > > very unhappy users out there. > > I know the Commodore people know many people like you. > > BTW, I own only an A1000. I don't feel rooked at all. *I* have a > machine that is usable. > > You know, I wonder how happy the people who own Mac 512's and Mac > Plusses are about the SE and the Mac II... They probably feel just like the people who DID buy the SE and Mac II. They wish they would have bought an Amiga. :-) Actually, As most of you should remember Commodore did not design the 1000. Some guys in Los Gatos did. And they did a good job also. Commodore understood this and bought them out and improved on their design. Amiga can't be blamed for building a great machine and Commodore can't be blamed for building on this idea. One other thing. Anybody that doesn't realize the change that goes on in both the state of the art and the marketability of a product has to be brain dead. I can accept someone missing the point on the marketability of the product but computer design changes come quite quickly and if a company, let's say, ah .. Commodore, for example, knew what they know now 3 years ago then they would have built the 2000 & 500 instead of the 1000 ( if they had built the 1000!). One last thing. Could you PLEASE stop whinning. Jeez, I hate it when you do that. :-) -- "Don't quote me on this!" Michael Figg DLA Systems Automation Center Columbus, Oh. (614)-238-9036
stever@videovax.Tek.COM (Steven E. Rice) (03/29/88)
In article <4012@bloom-beacon.MIT.EDU>, Richard L. Carreiro (rlcarr@athena.mit.edu) writes: [ lots deleted ] > Yes, Mr. Casey - you have hit the nail squarely on the head. > Us loyal A1000 owners, whose purchases helped to SAVE Commodore, are > now being $%#%$*@#'ed over for our troubles. I, too, will not buy another > Commodore machine. Hell, I'm not going to risk being burned again. > . . . (I would probably be just as well off talking to a brick wall, but I'll try this once. . .) If I had bought an IBM PCjr, I would be in a much worse situation than I am with my A1000. When Commodore came out with the A2000, they offered me the chance to upgrade. (Do you remember IBM giving that chance to PCjr owners?) In any market moving as fast as the computer market is, you have to expect obsolescence in a very short time. The PC-AT didn't completely obsolete the PC -- but there are plenty of programs for the AT that the vanilla PC won't run. The new PS/2 machines have PC "compatibility" mode, in which the system mimics a restricted system. But the real power of the PS/2 machines will come from applications that take full advantage of the 80386 -- and none of these will work on the PC or the PC-AT. It is my opinion (as an owner of both an A1000 and an A2000) that Commodore has gone the extra mile. Steve Rice ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- * Every knee shall bow, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord! * new: stever@videovax.tv.Tek.com old: {decvax | hplabs | ihnp4 | uw-beaver}!tektronix!videovax!stever
keithd@cadovax.UUCP (Keith Doyle) (03/30/88)
In article <311@uwslh.UUCP> lishka@uwslh.UUCP (Christopher Lishka) writes: > This posting is a request to keep this discussion from becoming >another Commodore-bashing and name-calling series. If I remember, >nearly the exact same series of postings happened several months ago. >Someone recently started another piracy discussion in comp.sys.cbm and >comp.sys.amiga...do we really want another discussion in the same vein >at this point? I agree. If you want to discuss/complain about various manufacturers upgrade policies, go get all the Mac guys that were so pissed about Apple's upgrade policies from the original 128k Mac, start a new newsgroup, and you guys can flame the manufacturers all together. I'm sure you can find some disgruntled IBM and Atari customers to join in too. Keith Doyle # {ucbvax,decvax}!trwrb!cadovax!keithd Contel Business Systems 213-323-8170
farren@gethen.UUCP (Michael J. Farren) (03/30/88)
rlcarr@athena.mit.edu (Richard L. Carreiro) writes: > >Us loyal A1000 owners, whose purchases helped to SAVE Commodore, are >now being $%#%$*@#'ed over for our troubles. Loyal? You must be using an awfully strange definition of loyalty. "Well, I'm loyal until I die, or until you do anything new, whichever comes first" is a poor brand of loyalty in my book. >I'm not against the A2000, or A2500, or whatever. But DAMN it, they could >make sure that we can upgrade. If you have been paying any attention to the technical discussions, you would know that they could not make sure of any such thing. In order to provide a better hardware platform, C/A HAD to drop the A1000 configuration. There is no way in hell that you add all of the capabilities of the A2000 into the A1000 without major (and I mean MAJOR) reworking of the whole machine. In effect, junking the entire old box and replacing it with an A2000 (which, I must remind you, C/A allowed you to do, easily and relatively inexpensively). >As it stands you need 3rd party stuff (someone correct me if I'm wrong, >please) to make the A1000 the equivalent of the A2000. No, you CANNOT make the A1000 the equivalent of the A2000. You cannot have the video interface slot. You cannot have the coprocessor interface slot. You cannot have the integrated, shielded, easy-to-service (although ergonomically flawed) case. You cannot have the upgraded graphics chips. You can make your 1000 look ALMOST like a 2000, but you can't get all the way there. >It's a --ckin' SIN that it looks like A1000 owners won't be able to get >the new graphics chips. You can probably get them, you just can't use them. Oh, some enterprising hacker might be able to figure out how to hack and slash a standard A1000 to allow the graphics chips to be used, but it will BE a hack and slash job, and nothing any company in its right mind would support. The fact that you can't use the new graphics chips isn't a sin. It is a shame, and it would be nice if it were possible to do so, but face it - there is nothing you, I, or C/A itself can do about it. The extra capabilities of the chips needs extra capabilities in the design, capabilities that the 2000 has that the 1000 just plain does not. The A2000 is, for the most part, a better design than the 1000. It addressed many of the problems inherent in the design of the 1000, and if that means that there are things you can do with the 2000 that you can't do with a 1000, that simply translates to "This time, they thought it out better". -- Michael J. Farren | "INVESTIGATE your point of view, don't just {ucbvax, uunet, hoptoad}! | dogmatize it! Reflect on it and re-evaluate unisoft!gethen!farren | it. You may want to change your mind someday." gethen!farren@lll-winken.llnl.gov ----- Tom Reingold, from alt.flame
eric@hector.UUCP (Eric Lavitsky) (03/31/88)
In article <5534@well.UUCP> ewhac@well.UUCP (Leo 'Bols Ewhac' Schwab) writes: <In article <3520@cbmvax.UUCP> daveh@cbmvax.UUCP (Dave Haynie) writes: <>No, your A1000 doesn't have slots. Look sometime, you won't find any. So you <>need a place to plug this stuff in. When the ASDG 2000-n-1 box comes out, I <> ^^^^ <>suspect that will let you add the three cards mentioned above with no <>trouble. <> < Um.... Shouldn't that be 'if'? < < Yes, Perry, I am trying to annoy you. I deliberately passed up the <2000 upgrade deal as well as other upgrade paths based on your claim that <the 2000-and-1 would be available shortly, and based on my perception that <you would deliver what you promised, namely, a rock-solid product. No problem Leo, here's the scoop. The product was delayed in all the flurry of "upgrade" activity and also due to issues of small changes in the B2000 bus spec early on. ASDG still intends to produce the 2000-and-1 - response at recent shows like AmiExpo LA has been positive. At this point, both the casework and the motherboard design are complete. The board should be in layout right now. We then build a bunch and take one in for FCC testing. The suggested list price will stil be around $800. We are promising delivery by the next AmiExpo in July (but hope to have it well before then). < I have this 1000 under my fingers that's screaming for a hard disk, <which I can't plug in, because I don't trust passing the bus through a SOTS <box into your cage, and no one makes a hard disk controller in the old Zorro <form factor (again, to fit in your Mr. C cage). < <Leo L. Schwab -- The Guy in The Cape ihnp4!ptsfa -\ Eric Lavitsky ARPA: eric@topaz.rutgers.edu "Lithium is no longer available UUCP: ...{wherever!}ulysses!eric on credit..." ...{wherever!}rutgers!topaz!eric - from Buckaroo Banzai SNAIL: 34 Maplehurst Ln, Piscataway, NJ 08854
peter@nuchat.UUCP (Peter da Silva) (03/31/88)
In article <61@kenobi.UUCP>, ford@kenobi.UUCP (Mike Ditto) writes: > If it's the same rumor I heard, this certain unmentionable company > will be offerring an upgrade for owners of its low-priced 68000 > systems. For about $4000 they give a 68020, 4 Meg ram, 200Meg disk, > graphics blitter, and a "Unix-like" operating system. The "Unix-like" operating system is called "Idris", and it's not close enough to UNIX for me. If you have any strong feelings about running stuff that you get from comp.sources.unix, stick to the real thing. In the UNIX hierarchy, Idris is a fork that was originaly a copy of version 6 UNIX. It's been modified so it liiks like something more real, but if you've ever tried to run System 3 compatible code on Xenix system 3, you'll have as much faith in this as me. -- -- a clone of Peter (have you hugged your wolf today) da Silva `-_-' -- normally ...!hoptoad!academ!uhnix1!sugar!peter U -- Disclaimer: These aren't mere opinions... these are *values*.
diamond@hubcap.UUCP (David Lee) (03/31/88)
Ok picture this:
A lowly college student approaches a soapbox in the center of
the room, climbs meekly on top of it and clears his throat....
I have been reading this newsgroup for close to a year now and I
have been entranced, upset, disgusted, curious , etc.,etc. But now I think
it is time I put my opinion forward on Commodore.
I was there in '82 when C= announced the 64. $595 dollars, wow, a
lot of money for a 16 yr old to come up with. With financial backing
(parents) I was one of the first in line to get this new and wonderous
machine. I was astounded by its power. I mean look at the competition at
the time...Atari 400 & 800 (w/ only 48k..but mine had 64K!) and Apple's
overpriced IIe. It did things that I had only imagined that a computer
could do. It was with me thru thick and then for 4 yrs, even into college
where I was laughed at by the Cloners(Inferior But Marketable clones) until
they heard the fantastic SID chip and saw the colors dance. It served its
purpose well even thru the release of the 128. I was a bit upset by the
overshadowing of my machine by the 128. But I knew, deep down that soon
as is the nature of the PC market, there would be something better that
would surpass my wildest imagination of PC's.
Narrator: An Amiga 1000 computer enters from a side curtain, spotlights
focus on it.....
The Amiga 1000. A Mac with colors, 4096 of them. Stereo sound. Beyond
anything within its price range and quite a few that cost more. I said
to myself, "Self",I sez,"this is the living end". So I sold my C=64
( I got a whopping $200 for drive and CPU) went into hock for 2 grand of
which I am still paying off. WOW! I had and have a computer that now 2 years later is the standard by which many OTHER computer manufactures are measuring their machines(graphics,sound, genlocks,digitizers,etc). I was the happiest
that anyone that owed 2000 bucks and had virtually NO income could be.
GUESS WHAT folks , I am still satified. The machine, at present does most
of what the other machines can , in some form. No I do not have EHB, big
hairy deal. I don't see any ultimate software package that incorporates
it. Yes I get more than my share of GURU's but I get more than my share
of PC enjoyment. So what that the new machines are announced and released.
I don't feel cheated. The 1000 will not be my last PC. I felt envious at
first. I felt rooked. But then I remembered what the alternatives were..
A black and white screen about 2" by 2", a pretend computer from a video
game console company, and the most boring, utilitarian set of chips to
ever disgrace my eyes.( I will let your imagination place names with faces)
Hats off to the engineers at Commodore who incorporate innovation as
a philosophy and not a buzzword(read that bold faced lie) as do the other
players in the PC market.
And as to the 2000 owners that have quite often rubbed it in my face (not
netters but acquitances), fine, I will stoically accept their ribbing and
pride at their advantages over the 1000 and the fact that I didnt upgrade
with the special offer. BUT! A year or so down the line when a new machine
is introduced...(guesswork) The Amiga 3000 (w/ the '030',and other features
that the 2000 cannot acquire or access) I will be the FIRST in line with
my money (be it VISA or whatnot) to receive the NEW MACHINES. I will do
my best to communicate superiority to other 2000 owners, as has been done
to me (even thought 500,1000,2000 are functionally the same).
To the gentlemen that feel they have been cheated I have 2 quotes :-)
1) "If you want to play, you gotta pay"
2) "If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen" :-)
Thank heaven above for a company like Commodore that puts some excitement
into personal computing. Keep it up!
THAT IS MY 2 cents worth.
Oh yeah , that is supposed to be, acquaintances not acquitances.
And the AMiga is not a Mac with colors. It's better!
Let's move on to something more productive in this newsgroup... like IPC.
Enough of this other garbage...
Narrator: And so our story ends as the tired,sweaty college student
steps off his pedestal and into the darkness to prepare for
another day of extendible hashing and B-trees. Good Night
and GOD bless.
Thank you for shopping at Kmart.
-David Lee
Clemson University
kkaempf@rmi.UUCP (Klaus Kaempf) (03/31/88)
Hi there ! My posting about the CeBit-Fair caused a lot of (and mostly unneccessary) net-bandwidth. I think most people on the net still dont know the difference between an official announcement and a show-report. To make it clear: My posting was about what I hear at the Fair, no more and no less !! It was *NOT* official. So please stop the discussion about what may be and when and how and why ... Instead wait until the new boards/machines show up at your dealer, he will know the exact price and configuration. Ok ?! Klaus
shimoda@rmi.UUCP (Markus Schmidt) (04/01/88)
In article <3533@cbmvax.UUCP> schein@cbmvax.UUCP (Dan Schein CATS) writes: : : The 2500 series Amiga's -=> ARE <=- 2000's with a combination of boards : added to them. The new chip set was designed to replace the chip set used : in the A500 and B2000. Commodore has not forgotten the A1000, but in the : Call BERKS AMIGA BBS - 24 Hrs - 3/12/2400 Baud - 40Meg - 215/678-7691 : +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ : I help Commodore by supporting the AMIGA. Commodore supports : me by allowing me to form my own suggestions and comments. Hi! Hmmm, maybe I am stupid and maybe that this question was answered somewhen. Is there a difference in using the new hardware (UX, AT, Chips) in an A2002\0 and B2000? I would be *very* unhappy if I could not use some of the stuff in my early-days-2000! |._,| Cu - - Markus ==O== (shimoda@rmi.UUCP) `-' Never trust a smiling cat!
mp1u+@andrew.cmu.edu (Michael Portuesi) (04/02/88)
> No, you CANNOT make the A1000 the equivalent of the A2000. You cannot > have the video interface slot. You cannot have the coprocessor > interface slot. You cannot have the integrated, shielded, > easy-to-service (although ergonomically flawed) case. You cannot have > the upgraded graphics chips. You can make your 1000 look ALMOST like > a 2000, but you can't get all the way there. I believe the (vaporware) 2000-and-1 box offers the equivalent of the A2000 co-processor slot. I remember Perry explaining that was exactly the reason the box was supposed to mount on the side of the A1000, rather than sit on the top or bottom. The rest of the stuff is true, but progress is inevitable. I wish some of the people on this net would get that through their thick skulls. --M Michael Portuesi / Carnegie Mellon University ARPA/UUCP: mp1u+@andrew.cmu.edu BITNET: rainwalker@drycas "Paradise is exactly like where you are right now...only much, much better" --Laurie Anderson, "Language is a Virus"
mp1u+@andrew.cmu.edu (Michael Portuesi) (04/03/88)
rlcarr@athena.mit.edu (Richard L. Carreiro) writes: > It's a --ckin' SIN that it looks like A1000 owners > won't be able to get the new graphics chips. And it's also a ---ckin' SIN that you can't add an SE expansion slot to the Mac Plus or put a MicroChannel bus on your PC AT. I do agree with you that I would like to have the new graphics chips on my A1000. But did you ever stop to think that the A1000 motherboard might, just MIGHT, be designed such that to use those new chips you would have to replace/redesign/tear apart the motherboard? Did you ever stop to think that this would be costly for Commodore to do? I would like one meg of chip RAM and non-interlace graphics on my A1000 too. But I would much rather see Commodore stay in business producing Amigas. This is a stupid argument, and I realize I am fanning the flames by participating, but I simply cannot believe how naive some people can be. If you don't like the policy, don't buy another Commodore computer, but nobody is going to listen to your bitching when you find out nobody else offers a better upgrade path for *their* machines. --M Michael Portuesi / Carnegie Mellon University ARPA/UUCP: mp1u+@andrew.cmu.edu BITNET: rainwalker@drycas "Memories are uncertain friends, when recalled by messages" -- OMD, "Messages"
bts@sas.UUCP (Brian T. Schellenberger) (04/05/88)
ALL RIGHT, I can't stand it anymore. I've stayed out of this discussion so far,
but I've got to put in my 2-cents worth:
It is true that other manufacturers don't have ideal upgrade paths. And people
complaining about lack of Fat Agnus support for the 1000 or other "motherboard"
issues are just being silly. AND the trade-in offer was very generous.
BUT Commodore did screw its Amiga 1000 owners in a unique way: Without
providing *major* new functionality, they changed their official expansion
board specs in a non-compatible way. If the a 1000 is fully decked-out with
everything, no problem. Just ignore the 2000/Zorro-2. If the 1000 has no
expansion, also fine. Wait for the 2000-in-1. BUT if you already have *some*
Zorro-1 expansion cards, and you want to upgrade further, you are screwed.
Hardware folks are dropping Zorro-1 support faster than a speeding bullet.
I really can't see why they had to change them in a non-compatible way at all,
but if they did, what Commodore should have done (maybe it's not too late?)
is to provide at low cost an expansion cage for the 1000 that holds *both*
kinds of cards (perhaps 3 Zorro-1's and 3 Zorro-2's) when they released
the 2000. This takes care of the only legitimate complaint that I can see
we 1000 owners have. Sure, we won't be able to upgrade motherboard things.
But making our peripherals useless was not nice, and the 2000 trade-in offer
failed to address this problem.
--
--Brian.
(Brian T. Schellenberger) ...!mcnc!rti!sas!bts
PET PEEVE: remember to keep included text small for us 1200-bauders . . .jesup@pawl21.pawl.rpi.edu (Randell E. Jesup) (04/06/88)
>BUT Commodore did screw its Amiga 1000 owners in a unique way: Without >providing *major* new functionality, they changed their official expansion >board specs in a non-compatible way. If the a 1000 is fully decked-out with >everything, no problem. Just ignore the 2000/Zorro-2. If the 1000 has no >expansion, also fine. Wait for the 2000-in-1. BUT if you already have *some* >Zorro-1 expansion cards, and you want to upgrade further, you are screwed. I really hate to continue this, but I think I should clear up a misconception about the 2000-in-1. It WILL have 2 Zorro-I slots, and 3 Zorro-II slots. So the upgrade path DOES exist. When (if?) the 2001 ships, you will be able to move your cards to it (supposedly, it will also have the CPU slot). Your box investment may be lost, if you don't have an ASDG Mini-Rack. A better solution may be to sell your box and boards to some new A1000 owner who bought a 1000 from someone who traded in. Many won't care if they can add new boards, and the money should cover (or close to) the cost of Zorro-II boards to replace the Zorro-I's. // Randell Jesup Lunge Software Development // Dedicated Amiga Programmer 13 Frear Ave, Troy, NY 12180 \\// beowulf!lunge!jesup@steinmetz.UUCP (518) 272-2942 \/ (uunet!steinmetz!beowulf!lunge!jesup) BIX: rjesup (-: The Few, The Proud, The Architects of the RPM40 40MIPS CMOS Micro :-)
monty@sagpd1.UUCP (Monty Saine) (04/07/88)
Please excuse and errors as this is my first attempt to post to the net.
I felt that the Amiga community should know what we were shown at the
San Diego Users Group meeting last night.
Some "Sales" types from CBM were invited to show to the group
a machine that they were in town to demo for a local "LARGE" coprporation.
This machine was obviously an early prototype so PLEASE do not
get overly excited. The machine appeared to be in an 2000 chassis but the
label said Amiga 3000. Sitting on top was what looked like a Mac II
monitor with a label that also said Amiga 3xxx. There were real numbers for
x's but I forgot to write them done.
That was the good news now fore the not so good news.
The Person giving this very abbreviated demo ( they had a plane to catch in
30 minuites) stated that the Amiga 3000 would contain an 68030, 68882 and
run at 20 Mhz. Sounds ok so far! But the 3000 will NOT be compatable with
2000 cards. Stop and think before you flame on. The 3000 will have a 32 bit
bus and the 2000 has a 16 bit bus.
This is not the end of the world. The 3000 is targeted to compete
with *SUN* and is to be a parrallel development for the 2000 in a different
market. The 2000 (series) will still be a viable line with the 3000 targeted
at the workstation market. Oh yes the 3000 demo was running workbench 2.0
and was said to have a non-interlaced display capability in the 1000x800 area.
This is a machine for a DIFFERENT MARKET!!!!!
The key that we all need to remember before we scream is the more
(profitable) markets that Commadore is in, the better is the future growth
for ALL Amiga's. One more thing before I go, the sugggested price for this
machine was in the $4000 range with 2 Megabytes of 32 bit memory. There
was also mention of possible rebates (for those who wish to change market
branches). These guys were VERY non-commital. The display looked great
though.
MLSmp1u+@andrew.cmu.edu (Michael Portuesi) (04/10/88)
bts@sas.UUCP (Brian T. Schellenberger) writes: > BUT if you already have *some* > Zorro-1 expansion cards, and you want to upgrade further, you are screwed. > Hardware folks are dropping Zorro-1 support faster than a speeding bullet. But I thought the 2000-and-1 will have some Zorro I slots in it for just that reason. And I thought we went through this discussion months ago when Mike Meyer complained about the exact same thing. > PET PEEVE: remember to keep included text small for us 1200-bauders . . . I always do. I simply hate to read non-relevant included text. -- Michael Portuesi / Carnegie Mellon University ARPA/UUCP: mp1u+@andrew.cmu.edu BITNET: rainwalker@drycas
rpa@gos.ukc.ac.uk (R.P.Almeida) (04/11/88)
In article <950@rmi.UUCP> shimoda@rmi.UUCP (Markus Schmidt) writes: -In article <3533@cbmvax.UUCP> schein@cbmvax.UUCP (Dan Schein CATS) writes: >: >: The 2500 series Amiga's -=> ARE <=- 2000's with a combination of boards >: added to them. The new chip set was designed to replace the chip set used >: in the A500 and B2000. Commodore has not forgotten the A1000, but in the - -Is there a difference in using the new hardware (UX, AT, Chips) -in an A2002\0 and B2000? -I would be *very* unhappy if I could not use some of the stuff in -my early-days-2000! - I am very unhappy, because Im sure that i can not use the new chips in my early-days-2000, and that i'm going to lose 512K when i use the 68020/68881/U**X board. Is Commodore(EUROPE/UK) going to do anything about this ? Richard Almeida.
dave@gtmvax.UUCP (Dave Hanna) (04/14/88)
In article <3517@cbmvax.UUCP>, daveh@cbmvax.UUCP (Dave Haynie) writes: > in article <247@sdrc.UUCP>, crgabb@sdrc.UUCP (Rob Gabbard) says: > > > - Is a 2000 upgradable to a 2500 ? (If so, how much ?) > > A2000+A2620(2meg)+A2286+A2090A+40MegDrive+NewCustomChips+Monitor == A2500AT > A2000+A2620(4meg)+A2090A+100MegDrive+NewCustomChips+Monitor+UNIX == A2500UX > > Dave Haynie "The B2000 Guy" Commodore-Amiga "The Crew That Never Rests" I've missed some of the discussion on this, so pardon me if this is redundant. Will the UNIX drivers for the Hard disk be specific to the A2090A, and will they be reconfigurable without a lot of agony? I'm considering adding a hard drive to my 2000 now using a C-Ltd controller, and I'd like to know that I won't have to replace it to add UNIX. Also, will the drivers support an AmigaDos partition, or be otherwise compatible with AmigaDos files? -- Dave Hanna ...!killer!gtmvax!dms3b1!dave