cp50@sdcc15.UUCP (Seamans) (04/07/88)
Last night at the San DIego Amiga Users Group, representatives from Commodore showed a prototype Amiga 3000. A prelim version of Workbench2.0 was shown at 640x480 resolution, with 256 colors. (non-interlaced) They showed several popular Amiga images, and a few others using the higher resolution. The machine had a 68030, 8 megs of RAM, and was housed in an Amiga 2000 case, but there was an "Amiga 3000" decal on the front. I understand from a friend up in Northern CA that Max Toy was the guest speaker at FAUG last night. According to this friend, Max said that the Amiga 3000 did not exist yet, and was just an idea being realized (or something like that). Well, here in San Diego I guess we were the lucky ones. Apparently these reps had just given a demo to General Dynamics here in SD, and stopped by the meeting on the way to the airport. I can't wait until this machine ships, but I can't help wondering if it will slow down Amiga 2000 sales in the meantime... Jay.
cmcmanis%pepper@Sun.COM (Chuck McManis) (04/08/88)
In article <474@sdcc15.UUCP> cp50@sdcc15.UUCP (Seamans) writes:
->Last night at the San DIego Amiga Users Group, representatives from
->Commodore showed a prototype Amiga 3000. A prelim version of Workbench2.0
->was shown at 640x480 resolution, with 256 colors. (non-interlaced)
->They showed several popular Amiga images, and a few others using the higher
->resolution. The machine had a 68030, 8 megs of RAM, and was housed in
->an Amiga 2000 case, but there was an "Amiga 3000" decal on the front.
You sure you didn't sleep throught the meeting and dream this ? :-)
Sorry but I just can't believe some 'Commodore' reps would take a
'prototype' machine, that Commodore itself couldn't display at Hannover
where they announced intentions to work on an '030 box, and display
it to some user group in San Diego. This meeting didn't happen to be
on the 'first of April' did it? I suspect you were the victim of a
practical joke from some engineers at CSA.
--Chuck McManis
uucp: {anywhere}!sun!cmcmanis BIX: cmcmanis ARPAnet: cmcmanis@sun.com
These opinions are my own and no one elses, but you knew that didn't you.perley@einstein.steinmetz (Donald P Perley) (04/08/88)
In article <474@sdcc15.UUCP> cp50@sdcc15.UUCP (Seamans) writes: >Last night at the San DIego Amiga Users Group, representatives from >Commodore showed a prototype Amiga 3000. A prelim version of Workbench2.0 >was shown at 640x480 resolution, with 256 colors. (non-interlaced) >They showed several popular Amiga images, and a few others using the higher >resolution. The machine had a 68030, 8 megs of RAM, and was housed in >an Amiga 2000 case, but there was an "Amiga 3000" decal on the front. > >I understand from a friend up in Northern CA that Max Toy was the >guest speaker at FAUG last night. According to this friend, Max said >that the Amiga 3000 did not exist yet, and was just an idea being >realized (or something like that). Are you sure it wasn't a 2000 with an "Amiga 3000" sticker? In other words, did you see anything that couldn't have been done with a flicker fixer (or the already announced enhanced graphics chips), and maybe the 68020 coprocessor board? Maybe someone made up a '030 coprocessor board? If Max Toy is right, than it was more likely a concept model than a real prototype. These views are just based on what I've read in this newsgroup, and what I know of the way sales groups operate. Now that I've gone and said it might be a fake, can I start drooling like everyone else? -Don Perley
cp50@sdcc15.UUCP (Seamans) (04/08/88)
In article <48779@sun.uucp> cmcmanis@sun.UUCP (Chuck McManis) writes: >In article <474@sdcc15.UUCP> cp50@sdcc15.UUCP (Seamans) writes: >->Last night at the San DIego Amiga Users Group, representatives from >->Commodore showed a prototype Amiga 3000. > >You sure you didn't sleep throught the meeting and dream this ? :-) >--Chuck McManis >uucp: {anywhere}!sun!cmcmanis BIX: cmcmanis ARPAnet: cmcmanis@sun.com Several people in the group recognized these guys from previous presentations they made at General Dynamics. They showed Workbench 2.0 running on a high res display! There were writers and photgraphers from several Amiga magazines there also. It really happened, I've seen pictures from the meeting and it's just as I remember it :-) Maybe we should upload digitized versions of the pictures if there's enough interest. It's an Amiga 3000 alright - the case looks like a 2000 case, but a little longer (supposedly to house the longer boards or something like that). Really an awesome machine, they had a CD-ROM hooked up to it earlier and were running anims from a CD-ROM at GD, in real time! The sun always shines in San Diego. Oh, and by the way, we're not just "some" users group as you mention! We've been here since DAY ONE on the Amiga, and are over 400 members strong! No FAUG to be sure, but the Amiga community in SD is alive and well! Jay.
grr@cbmvax.UUCP (George Robbins) (04/10/88)
In article <476@sdcc15.UUCP> cp50@sdcc15.UUCP (Seamans,Jay) writes: > In article <48779@sun.uucp> cmcmanis@sun.UUCP (Chuck McManis) writes: > >In article <474@sdcc15.UUCP> cp50@sdcc15.UUCP (Seamans) writes: > >->Last night at the San DIego Amiga Users Group, representatives from > >->Commodore showed a prototype Amiga 3000. > > > >You sure you didn't sleep throught the meeting and dream this ? :-) > > Several people in the group recognized these guys from previous > presentations they made at General Dynamics. They showed Workbench 2.0 > running on a high res display! There were writers and photgraphers from > several Amiga magazines there also. > > Maybe we should upload digitized versions of the pictures if there's > enough interest. It's an Amiga 3000 alright - the case looks like a > 2000 case, but a little longer (supposedly to house the longer boards > or something like that). Really an awesome machine, they had a CD-ROM > hooked up to it earlier and were running anims from a CD-ROM at GD, in > real time! The sun always shines in San Diego. Let's keep the heat down folks. Just what happened in San Diego is turning into the mystery of the year. Whatever this object was that was shown by "Commodore Reps", it is not the A3000 that Irving Gould mentioned at the Hannover CeBit show. If anyone caught some names for the people that showed it or the writers from the Amiga magazines I appreciate receiving some mail with the details.... -- George Robbins - now working for, uucp: {uunet|ihnp4|rutgers}!cbmvax!grr but no way officially representing arpa: cbmvax!grr@uunet.uu.net Commodore, Engineering Department fone: 215-431-9255 (only by moonlite)
jesup@pawl22.pawl.rpi.edu (Randell E. Jesup) (04/10/88)
FYI, the general agreement on bix over this supposed showing of the 'Amiga
3000' is that it was actually CSA showing their '030 daughterboard for their
'020 card, along with a MicroWay FlickerFixer. It might also have been a
dealer who didn't make it obvious exactly what the thing was. The AmigaDos
2.0 may well have been 1.3Gamma4.
Or maybe it was good ol' Jack T, launching a disinformation campaign :-)
// Randell Jesup Lunge Software Development
// Dedicated Amiga Programmer 13 Frear Ave, Troy, NY 12180
\\// beowulf!lunge!jesup@steinmetz.UUCP (518) 272-2942
\/ (uunet!steinmetz!beowulf!lunge!jesup) BIX: rjesup
(-: The Few, The Proud, The Architects of the RPM40 40MIPS CMOS Micro :-)langz@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (04/11/88)
In-Reply-To: <476@sdcc15.UUCP> Hi, I tried sending this via a bunch of dofferent paths, but it kept on bouncing. Hey everybody, unless you're connected directly to a backbone site, please supply a path. Thanks. And now, on with the letter... In article <476@sdcc15.UUCP> you write: >In article <48779@sun.uucp> cmcmanis@sun.UUCP (Chuck McManis) writes: >>In article <474@sdcc15.UUCP> cp50@sdcc15.UUCP (Seamans) writes: >>->Last night at the San DIego Amiga Users Group, representatives from >>->Commodore showed a prototype Amiga 3000. >> >>You sure you didn't sleep throught the meeting and dream this ? :-) >>--Chuck McManis >>uucp: {anywhere}!sun!cmcmanis BIX: cmcmanis ARPAnet: cmcmanis@sun.com > >Several people in the group recognized these guys from previous >presentations they made at General Dynamics. They showed Workbench 2.0 >running on a high res display! There were writers and photgraphers from >several Amiga magazines there also. It really happened, I've seen pictures >from the meeting and it's just as I remember it :-) > >Maybe we should upload digitized versions of the pictures if there's >enough interest. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE digitize every photo you have and send me uuencodes via mail. The comp.{binaries,sources}.amiga groups are down until further notice, so posting the photos would not be very fruitful, so PLEASE mail copies to me. My uucp mail path is below. I'm ON MY KNEES!!! PLEASE do it TODAY!! On a more serious note, if it's going to cost you, I'll be happy to pay a reasonable amount to get the photos sent here. In fact, if you could get another set of prints made, I'll gladly pay for that in addition to the digitizations (if I had to pick one, of course I'd prefer prints). I really want to present this rumor to the Boston-area Amiga group of which I'm a member. If you could get a few of the people from your Users' Group together to recall what was stated at the demo, an accompanying text file will lend a lot of credibility to the photos. But please get me those photos. Really! Thanks much! -- Be seeing you... --Lang Zerner langz@athena.mit.edu ihnp4!mit-eddie!athena.mit.edu!langz "To be clever enough to get a great deal of money, one must first be stupid enough to want it." -- G.K. Chesterson Be seeing you... --Lang Zerner langz@athena.mit.edu ihnp4!mit-eddie!athena.mit.edu!langz "To be clever enough to get a great deal of money, one must first be stupid enough to want it." -- G.K. Chesterson
wtm@neoucom.UUCP (Bill Mayhew) (04/11/88)
So this so-called Amiga 3000 prototype machine was sporting a Mac II monitor with Mac II-like fonts on a markedly different workbench-like display. Has the thought crossed anybody's mind that this was an April-foolie and that the Amiga 3000 was really a wolf (Mac II) in sheep's (Amiga's) clothing. I've worked some on a Mac II, and it would be pretty easy to slip the Mac II motherboard into the B2000 case. Could this have been Apple sabotage to cause FUD (fear uncertainty and doubt) in the Amiga community? --Bill
ewhac@well.UUCP (Leo 'Bols Ewhac' Schwab) (04/12/88)
In article <474@sdcc15.UUCP> cp50@sdcc15.UUCP (Seamans) writes: >Last night at the San DIego Amiga Users Group, representatives from >Commodore showed a prototype Amiga 3000. [ ... ] > I first thought this was a joke posting, but it was almost immediately followed by two confirming postings from seperate individuals. *** WARNING: YOU ARE NOW ENTERING A FUSION FURNACE. EXERCISE APPROPRIATE CAUTIONARY MEASURES. *** This has got to be one of the most irresponsible things anyone could ever do. I am referring not to the posting but to the showing of this machine. I can only think of three possibilities surrounding this machine: 1: It is a real C-A prototype. 2: It is a VAR-modified 2000 (could be CSA's). 3: It is a coordinated joke among members of some unknown group. I will now reduce these three possibilities to as many atoms as I can. It Is A Real C-A Prototype -------------------------- Who were the morons who showed this to the public? Who hired them? Have they been caught yet? However, a premature showing of the machine is only part of the problem. If this is real, then it indicates to me that the A3000 is closer than any of us, including me, imagined. Such a beast shouldn't even be past the breadboard stage if Commodore is going to do it right. If they've already got something running in an A2000 box, then it *IS* a rush job, and it *WILL* be a mess. By having created a prototype so quickly, C-A has not spent the *REQUIRED* time to ****DO IT RIGHT, FOR A >>CHANGE!!!!<<****. There are hundreds of fundamental changes and fixes that MUST be implemented before Commodore can even BEGIN TO CONSDIER releasing a 68030-based system. Among these is throwing out the existing DOS and replacing it with something that works, and works correctly. Tim King should be kept as far away from it as possible. (An orbit around Jupiter should be about right.) If this system is as real as described, then it is TOO SOON. If my guesstimates are correct, Commodore should spend AT LEAST 1.5 YEARS developing just the SYSTEM SOFTWARE for a 68030-based system. (Of course, now they have Wesl.... er, Bryce, so you could probably knock off a few months. :-) ) If they spend less time than this, then it *WILL* BE DONE WRONG. This is not to say that a 1.5-year development cycle will guarantee success, but spending any less time will guarantee failure, at least from my perspective. The Amiga is so close to perfect that I *DESPERATELY* don't want to see it screwed up. Releasing a 68030-based Amiga before mid-1989 will be too soon. I wouldn't worry about incompatible bus specifications; I trust Robbins and company to get this part very right. Any incompatibilities that may have been talked about are probably true of the prototype. However, based on George's postings, I trust him to get the mythical new bus right. If anyone wants to know what my personal views on what a future Amiga should be, I can mail (or post, if so requested) a large-ish document detailing my views. To CATS and Commodore Engineering: If anyone would like to lay my fears to rest and detail what the hell is going on, please send me mail. If you so request, I will maintain all correspondence in the strictest confidence. It Is A VAR-modified 2000 ------------------------- Who were the idiots who claimed that this was an official A3000? Have *they* been caught yet? I've no idea who might have been going around claiming that this was an offcial Amiga 3000 prototype, but whoever it was should be flogged. If you want to show off an Amiga with an '030 in it, fine. If you show off an Amiga 3000, go get a real one from Commodore. Just because your configuration may be similar to the proposed Amiga 3000 does NOT give you ANY right to go around calling it an Amiga 3000, especially in front of dumb users who can't verify whether or not you're telling the truth. To falsely push your stuff as the real thing is the epitome of slimy, not to mention unlawful (would you like me to get the Federal Trade Commission on your back?). Also, consider your market. If you go around showing off an "Amiga 3000" which is really a 2000 with your mods in it, what do you think is going to happen to A2000 sales, and hence, your potential market base? Do the words, "Shooting yourself in the foot," mean anything to you? Actually, if I got you in my sights, I'd aim somewhat higher.... It Is A Coordinated Joke Among Members Of Some Unknown Group ------------------------------------------------------------ Who were the twits who thought this travesty up? Have they been *shot* yet? Look, we all want to see the Amiga boldly go forward ('cause we can't find reverse :-) ), going where no computer has ever been able to go before, etc. Posting this kind of dreck is not the way to do it. Again, by making an announcement like this, you stand a good chance of killing Amiga sales, since people will now stand around and wait for the A3000. Perhaps you wanted to start Yet Another Flame-Commodore-Fest on the Net. God knows that we've had enough of these. Mistakes have been made. They are in the past. But starting flames about hardware which DOESN'T EVEN EXIST YET accomplishes little else than give C-A employees to wonder why they bother to participate in this forum at all. "Why should I bother? I get lambasted for things I haven't even done yet!!" Maybe killing Amiga sales is what you had in mind, in which case, you should go stand upside-down with your head in a bucket of Piranha fish. Epilogue -------- I want to see the Amiga succeed. To do so, future generations of the Amiga must be as well-thought out as the original 1000 was. Crufting together a '030-based system in eight months is not properly thinking things out. Pre-announcing things doesn't help, either. Third-party developers can help the Amiga immensely, provided that they are ethical (and 99% of them are). There's not a lot we can do about the Anti-Amiga conspiracy, except to persevere. History will prove that we were right all along. *** NOTICE: YOU ARE NOW LEAVING THE FUSION FURNACE. *** I'm not really this violent, except for things that I feel strongly about. A good example is this brand new animation I've cooked up that's reminiscent of flying equations on _The Mechanical Universe_.... _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ Leo L. Schwab -- The Guy in The Cape ihnp4!pacbell -\ \_ -_ Recumbent Bikes: dual ---> !{well,unicom}!ewhac O----^o The Only Way To Fly. hplabs / (pronounced "AE-wack") "Work FOR? I don't work FOR anybody! I'm just having fun." -- The Doctor
blgardne@esunix.UUCP (Blaine Gardner) (04/14/88)
From article <1099@neoucom.UUCP>, by wtm@neoucom.UUCP (Bill Mayhew): > Has the thought crossed anybody's mind that this was an > April-foolie and that the Amiga 3000 was really a wolf (Mac II) in > sheep's (Amiga's) clothing. Did this user's group meeting happen to take place on Friday, April 1st? This would explain a lot. -- Blaine Gardner @ Evans & Sutherland 540 Arapeen Drive, SLC, Utah 84108 UUCP Addresses: {ihnp4,ucbvax,allegra,decvax}!decwrl!esunix!blgardne ihnp4!utah-cs!esunix!blgardne usna!esunix!blgardne "Nobody will ever need more than 64K." "Nobody needs multitasking on a PC."
hull@hao.ucar.edu (Howard Hull) (04/24/88)
Crouched, I creep slowly down below the stone wall. I know he's there, somewhere. Cautiously, I place a foot forward where it will give me balance, perhaps a chance to spring backwards again into the shadows. Finally, I am ready. I swing out, pivoting about my forward foot. Yikes! There he is! So enormous a monster, can he be aware of me? Silicon tiles rattle upon his back as he coils and sniffs the air. He has already caught my scent! The tail lashes about, and boulders fly as they were grains of sand. It's eyes, glowing with the rudy depth of a black hole, sweep about. I must get back! But suddenly the eyes stop, centered on the very ground upon which I stand. Oh no! Am I too late? I drop below a small clinker of fused basalt and brace myself for what I know must come next. Hot. Oh so hot. Fire is everywhere. The sky glows red, then orange, and there is no breath to be taken. I must use my sash to beat out the flames seeping into my cryogenic underwear. The sky cools. Sapphires and Rubies precipitate from the fog. Chunks of Phosphorous plop noisily about. So those are the three-five dopants, I say to myself. What will I do if he goes to Gallium and Arsenic? I look out again, and there he is! It is Leo, coiling for another strike! My God, what brings me to this place?!!! Now I know the dragon's name. But what has brought him to such wrath? What can happen in the quiet ever-summer of San Diego, what can there be that would cause such a thing? Is there something new at the ZOO? Oh yes. The CSA dumb friends league. They must be responsible. And they thought they were only tweaking the April Fool. Though not CSA themselves, ardent supporters are they nonetheless. An 030 in the hand is not 1E6 in the bush. But time will pass. And as time passes, likely it is that Commodore marketing will soon enough come upon the scene, cooling the fires and planting about the trees of careful justice. They will feed Leo what he wishes to eat, they will have balm for my burns. In the mean time, I need not worry about either CSA, or the CSA dumb friends league. Whatever I want from them I can get, be I only willing to witness the defenistration of my wallet. But my armour I can keep. For with Leo raging about, I shall no doubt need it again... Howard Hull hull@hao.ucar.edu