richard@gryphon.CTS.COM (Richard Sexton) (05/12/88)
In article <1959@sugar.UUCP> peter@sugar.UUCP (Peter da Silva) writes: >I wrote: >> >> Buy a printer buffer. $49.95 ? > >First, a quick flame about printer buffers: > >So for the first Xk of the dump, the computer thinks the printer is >faster. After that, the computer has to slow down, And *I* still have to >wait for it, no matter how long it takes. Wrong answer. The correct answer >to the "my printer is too slow and it's holding up my computer" is a spooler. Get bigger printer buffer. Perhaps you and I print different things. I print mostly graphics, and the printer is always waiting on the Amiga to rasterize the image. Listings i do on a laser printer at 9600 baud and I dont wait. >And you're not even dealing with the right question. Let's look at this >exchange: > >A: You need a parallel port. I never said you needed a parallel port. I said: "don't dictate your views on the rest of us an tell us we should all have two serial ports because you perceive there is no need for parallel ports." Dont they make those little serial-->parallel and parallel-->serial jobbers ? [...] >That is... speed isn't an issue. Capiche? RIGHT! Speed is a non-issue. Being able to come across any peripheral and being able to plug it in because you have both a SER and a PAR port is an issue. And the cables! ARRRG! Sometimes I think I'd like to go back in time and slay the guy who invented RS-232C. Lesse I need a male to female, swapped, with DTR pulled high. Wait I've got one but its female to female, hmm, well what about this one, no it's not swapped, etc. I have a dresser drawer full of different SER cables. One for everytime I had to make one! I have one or two parallel cables. What, besides printers uses parallel ports ? Well, I have to agree printers account for the large part of it, but I've used a speech synthesizer and a hard disk drive over a parallel port. >> There are more fords than ferarris too. Whatever the hell all this proves. > >Fords are more versatile than ferraris, because the whole world isn't >a racetrack. It's also not a print shop. Agreed. But please don't disallow it. > >> No no. Ludicrous, rediculous off the wall flame that even talk.bizarre >> would reject. > >Talk.bizzarre is moderated now? Brian Reid. You hav'nt been keeping up on these things ? >> Now Peter, if you want more serial ports, great, knock yourself out >> go buy a IBM-PC multiport card with 4 ot 8 ports on it, plug it >> in and you'll be one happy puppy. > >Plug it in *where*? In an AT slot. Ie a 2000 or one of those silly card cages. Yes, it's real money but the 8 port card is not cheap either. How badly do you want it ? I saw an ad in BYTE that had 8 MODEMS on an AT card, if you really want to run a packet switch network off your Amiga, that would seem to be the way to go. >Probably in the PC/AT clone running Microport UNIX that I'm going to >buy instead of an Amiga 2000. Knock yourself out. Good luck with Microport. Snicker. >Hey, folks. Before you do Yet Another Memory Board Addon or Yet Another >Hard Drive or Yet Another Genlock... how about a multiport serial card??? 1) Nobody is builing much for anything but 2000's; putting a $1500 multiport serial card on a $500 A500 seems a little strange; of you have the money for the card, you have the money to blow on a 2000. You can only extend a A500 so far. 2) THATS WHY THE AT SLOTS ARE THERE ON THE A2000 ! So you can add any peripheral you want. This is the prototype argument for the At slots - the AT cards exist, you just plug 'em in. Yes I know you have an A1000, you're stuck, as am I. *I'd* like two serial ports too, one for the laser and one for the modem. But I can probably get away with a switch box, and I certainly am not willing to give up my parallel port for a second serial port, and I'm sure as hell not going to try to dictate what other peoples computers should be like. >-- Disclaimer: These aren't mere opinions, these are *values*. Some are good. Some arn't. -- noalias went. it really wasn't negotiable richard@gryphon.CTS.COM rutgers!marque!gryphon!richard
sterling@cbmvax.UUCP (Rick Sterling QA) (05/13/88)
In article <3963@gryphon.CTS.COM> richard@gryphon.CTS.COM (Richard Sexton) writes: > In article <1959@sugar.UUCP> peter@sugar.UUCP (Peter da Silva) writes: > Knock yourself out. Good luck with Microport. Snicker. > > >Hey, folks. Before you do Yet Another Memory Board Addon or Yet Another > >Hard Drive or Yet Another Genlock... how about a multiport serial card??? > > 1) Nobody is builing much for anything but 2000's; putting a $1500 > multiport serial card on a $500 A500 seems a little strange; of you > have the money for the card, you have the money to blow on a 2000. > You can only extend a A500 so far. Check with Ed Lippert Jr. at C Ltd. , I understand they are planning to market a multiport card for the A2000. (316)-267-3807 STANDARD DISCLAIMERS APPLY ============================================================================= Rick Sterling COMMODORE AMIGA TEST ENGINEERING // /_ |\/||/_ /_ UUCP ...{allegra,ihnp4,rutgers}!cbmvax!sterling \X/ / \| ||\// \ PHONE 215-431-9275 ============================================================================= Everybody likes hard work ... especially when THEY'RE paying for it. =============================================================================
peter@sugar.UUCP (Peter da Silva) (05/14/88)
You're still looking at my finger. Can't you see I'm pointing at the moon? In article <3963@gryphon.CTS.COM>, richard@gryphon.UUCP writes: > In article <1959@sugar.UUCP> peter@sugar.UUCP (Peter da Silva) writes: > >So for the first Xk of the dump, the computer thinks the printer is > >faster. After that, the computer has to slow down, And *I* still have to > >wait for it, no matter how long it takes. Wrong answer. The correct answer > >to the "my printer is too slow and it's holding up my computer" is a spooler. > Get bigger printer buffer. How very IBM of you. Throw more money at the wrong solution ot the problem. Read my lips. "SPOOLER". Got that? It doesn't take much. I tend to use CMD to get the stuff into a file and then run a copy in the background from a CLI, but there are *lots* of alternative ways of doing it. I guess it's like a printer buffer in that it's sticking the stuff in memory before it slows the machine down... *but* I've already paid for the 4 megs inside my Amiga. I might as well use them. > I print mostly graphics, and the printer is always waiting on the Amiga > to rasterize the image. Listings i do on a laser printer at 9600 baud > and I dont wait. How very nice for you. You make my point perfectly. You have your fast printer on a slow device, and your slow printer on a fast device. That sure makes a lot of sense. > >And you're not even dealing with the right question. Let's look at this > >exchange: > >A: You need a parallel port. > I never said you needed a parallel port. No, IBM, Commodore, Apple, and dozens of other companies said "you need a parallel port" by making it a standard part of the machine. Back in the CP/M days, most machines had two (or more) serial ports and I don't recall lacking for printers... > I said: "don't dictate your > views on the rest of us an tell us we should all have two serial > ports because you perceive there is no need for parallel ports." I'm not dictating my views. I don't have the power or atuthority to dictate. I'm attempting to convince you that my views have merit. Capiche? > Dont they make those little serial-->parallel and parallel-->serial > jobbers ? Very good point. Stick one on your parallel printer... > RIGHT! Speed is a non-issue. Being able to come across any peripheral > and being able to plug it in because you have both a SER and a PAR port > is an issue. The issue to me is the early standardisation on parallel printers by IBM has really screwed people over. They partitioned the set of slow peripherals into two disjoint parts for no good reason. > And the cables! ARRRG! Sometimes I think I'd like to go back in time > and slay the guy who invented RS-232C. Ever made up a parallel cable? > What, besides printers uses parallel ports ? Well, I have to agree > printers account for the large part of it, but I've used a speech > synthesizer and a hard disk drive over a parallel port. So you're using the parallel port as a very slow bus. The Amiga already has a much faster bus. Of course it's a royal pain to do cheap cards for, but I don't want to get started on "the Autoconfig that isn't". > >Talk.bizzarre is moderated now? > Brian Reid. You hav'nt been keeping up on these things ? AAARGH! > >> Now Peter, if you want more serial ports, great, knock yourself out > >> go buy a IBM-PC multiport card with 4 ot 8 ports on it, plug it > >> in and you'll be one happy puppy. > >Plug it in *where*? > In an AT slot. What AT slot? > Ie a 2000 or one of those silly card cages. An Amiga $2000 for a $50 card? > Yes, it's real money Nice you noticed. > but the 8 port card is not cheap either. How badly do you want it ? I just want one more serial port. Really. If this was an Apple-II or some other machine with a cheap bus I could put it together or get someone to for under a hundred dollars. > >Probably in the PC/AT clone running Microport UNIX that I'm going to > >buy instead of an Amiga 2000. > Knock yourself out. Good luck with Microport. Snicker. I'm using a Microport system right as we "speak". It's occasionally a pain, but it's a damn sight more reliable as a programmer's workshop than poor old raw-memory Amy. I just want one of my own. > >Hey, folks. Before you do Yet Another Memory Board Addon or Yet Another > >Hard Drive or Yet Another Genlock... how about a multiport serial card??? > 1) Nobody is builing much for anything but 2000's; putting a $1500 > multiport serial card on a $500 A500 seems a little strange; of you > have the money for the card, you have the money to blow on a 2000. > You can only extend a A500 so far. I'm not talking about a $1500 card. I'm talking about the moral equivalent of all those *cheap* multifunction cards for the PC with half a dozen assorted ports and a enough memory to bring you up to 640K. > 2) THATS WHY THE AT SLOTS ARE THERE ON THE A2000 ! So you can add any > peripheral you want. This is the prototype argument for the > At slots - the AT cards exist, you just plug 'em in. I don't see any slots in my 1000. > Yes I know you have an A1000, Nice of you to notice. > and I'm sure as hell not going to try to dictate what other peoples > computers should be like. You seem upset. You're getting upset about the wrong things. Don't get mad at me: I don't have any dictatorial powers. I'm trying to convinnce, not coerce. It's IBM and its kin that are responsible for the current situation. It's very therepeutic to rail at them for a while. All that happens when you do that to poor individuals is get them mad. Luckily I'm a nice guy and I don't yell back. Well, not much. The best solution would be a cheap geographically-addressed bus like the Apple-II bus for cheap peripherals. -- -- Peter da Silva `-_-' ...!hoptoad!academ!uhnix1!sugar!peter -- "Have you hugged your U wolf today?" ...!bellcore!tness1!sugar!peter -- Disclaimer: These aren't mere opinions, these are *values*.
richard@gryphon.CTS.COM (Richard Sexton) (05/15/88)
Ok everybody. Please surgically remove your parallel port and junk
your parallel peripherals.
Peter says we don't need them.
And what he says goes.
--
And other people run red lights, too.
richard@gryphon.CTS.COM rutgers!marque!gryphon!richardpeter@sugar.UUCP (Peter da Silva) (05/16/88)
In article ... richard@gryphon.CTS.COM (Richard Sexton) flames: > Ok everybody. Please surgically remove your parallel port and junk > your parallel peripherals. > Peter says we don't need them. > And what he says goes. That's pretty amazing. I have never had anyone so consistently and bizzarely misinterpret something I've posted. And *you* think *I'm* too weird for net.bizzarre. You're so weird you ought to be in real life. -- -- Peter da Silva `-_-' ...!hoptoad!academ!uhnix1!sugar!peter -- "Have you hugged your U wolf today?" ...!bellcore!tness1!sugar!peter -- Disclaimer: These may be the official opinions of Hackercorp.
bilbo@pnet02.cts.com (Bill Daggett) (05/16/88)
Phooey, I'm keeping my parallel port. My MX-80 requires it and I won't
convert. If C= does away with the thingy I'll buy an Apple! Let's argue
about something else like...
Bill
UUCP: {ihnp4!scgvaxd!cadovax rutgers!marque}!gryphon!pnet02!bilbo
INET: bilbo@pnet02.cts.com
* Sometimes The Dragon Wins! * Still looking for the best Amiga BBS
software to resurrect Bilbo's Hideaway on - but not holding breath!grr@cbmvax.UUCP (George Robbins) (05/16/88)
In article <4029@gryphon.CTS.COM> bilbo@pnet02.cts.com (Bill Daggett) writes: > Phooey, I'm keeping my parallel port. My MX-80 requires it and I won't > convert. If C= does away with the thingy I'll buy an Apple! Let's argue > about something else like... I wouldn't worry too much. Admittedly, the C64 employed a one-size-fits-all serial bus, but the emphasis in the Amiga family is on plugging into existing peripherals and standards, not attempting to redefine the world in our own image ala Mac... -- George Robbins - now working for, uucp: {uunet|ihnp4|rutgers}!cbmvax!grr but no way officially representing arpa: cbmvax!grr@uunet.uu.net Commodore, Engineering Department fone: 215-431-9255 (only by moonlite)
richard@gryphon.CTS.COM (Richard Sexton) (05/16/88)
In article <2002@sugar.UUCP> peter@sugar.UUCP (Peter da Silva) writes:
{stuff}
Ok, Peter. ONE LAST, and FINAL TIME:
When you can convice all peripheral manufacturors to use serial only,
and can get rid of all the parallel devices in the known universe then
we can talk about machines that only come with serial port(s).
Until such time as that is true, the only seinsible thing for a computer
manufacturor to do is to supply one of each.
I found it pretty amusing that when you had a badly aligned floppy
drive you wanted commodore to change the filesystem to accomidate
all your bad disks.
And now that you want one more serial port you want the world to abolish
parallel ports.
The world does not revolve around Peter da Silva - I checked with
copernicus.
P.S. Your application to read talk.bizarre was received and rejected.
You're too predictible. And no, knowing how to spell didn't help any.
--
And other people run red lights, too.
richard@gryphon.CTS.COM rutgers!marque!gryphon!richardpeter@sugar.UUCP (Peter da Silva) (05/17/88)
In article ... richard@gryphon.CTS.COM (Richard Sexton) writes: > In article <2002@sugar.UUCP> peter@sugar.UUCP (Peter da Silva) writes: > {stuff} [Actually a bunch of stuff about how he didn't seem to understand a word I wrote. It doesn't seem to have caught. ] > Ok, Peter. ONE LAST, and FINAL TIME: Really? Ready when you are, Dick. You still seem a little uptight. Bad day at the office? > When you can convice all peripheral manufacturors to use serial only, > and can get rid of all the parallel devices in the known universe then > we can talk about machines that only come with serial port(s). Well, I'm trying. It really helps when I get accused of being a dictator. I reserve flames like *that* for IBM. > Until such time as that is true, the only seinsible thing for a computer > manufacturor to do is to supply one of each. Except for IBM, this is true. > I found it pretty amusing that when you had a badly aligned floppy > drive you wanted commodore to change the filesystem to accomidate > all your bad disks. Actually, I still have the same floppy disk drive (drives, actually. Both apparently out of alignment by exactly the same amount) and I haven't aligned it. I did suspect a Delay(0) problem for a while, but I ran Markus' Delay(0) trapper and never got a beep. I've just come to accept that I'm going to get screwed over by the file system. I have never had as many reliability problems since the time I had to do software development on the assembly floor in all the dust & heat & stuff. A write error shouldn't lose a file (the bad block mapping should select a new block), and disk errors shouldn't cause a guru (0x8700000BL, which comes out to AN_KeyRange|AT_DeadEnd). The "Fix" for the file system turned out to be enough memory that I didn't hit the disks very often. > And now that you want one more serial port you want the world to abolish > parallel ports. Oh no, I've wanted that since the late '70s. Way before I ever got a computer with a parallel port. From messages on the net I don't seem to be the only one. -- -- Peter da Silva `-_-' ...!hoptoad!academ!uhnix1!sugar!peter -- "Have you hugged your U wolf today?" ...!bellcore!tness1!sugar!peter -- Disclaimer: These may be the official opinions of Hackercorp.
egranthm@jackson.UUCP (Ewan Grantham) (05/18/88)
In article <3963@gryphon.CTS.COM>, richard@gryphon.UUCP writes: > > > Ie a 2000 or one of those silly card cages. Yes, it's real money > but the 8 port card is not cheap either. How badly do you want it ? > > I saw an ad in BYTE that had 8 MODEMS on an AT card, if you really > want to run a packet switch network off your Amiga, that would seem > to be the way to go. > > richard@gryphon.CTS.COM rutgers!marque!gryphon!richard Or he could offer to beta-test my multi-line BBS program. Actually, it would be nice if we could get a NUMBER of multi-line Amiga BBS's nationwide. Which is why I wrote the software in the first place. Any more volunteers? Ewan Grantham (uunet!nuchat!jackson!egranthm) My bosses aren't responsible for me, and vice-versa.
rusty@hocpa.UUCP (M.W.HADDOCK) (05/27/88)
In article <4029@gryphon.CTS.COM> bilbo@pnet02.cts.com (Bill Daggett) writes: >Phooey, I'm keeping my parallel port. My MX-80 requires it and I won't >convert. If C= does away with the thingy I'll buy an Apple! Let's argue >about something else like... Aye, I must have at least three things that I want hanging off my A1000 PARALLEL port at the same time and possibly adding more in the future. I would settle for a ABCD switch box but I've never seen nor heard of any that utilize MAIL, er..., MALE DB-25 connectors -- just the female variety -- that my Digi-View and printer cables use. I'd really like to stay away from gender benders and the such. Hey, if you know of a company that makes these buggers... PLEASE, let me know. T'anks!!! -Rusty- ---- Rusty Haddock {uunet!likewise,cbosgd,rutgers!mtune}!hocpa!rusty AT&T Consumer Products Laboratories - Human Factors Laboratory Holmdel, New Joyzey 07733 (201) 834-1023 rusty@hocpa.att.com -- Rusty Haddock {uunet!likewise,cbosgd,rutgers!mtune}!hocpa!rusty AT&T Consumer Products Laboratories - Human Factors Laboratory Holmdel, New Joyzey 07733 (201) 834-1023 rusty@hocpa.att.com
richard@gryphon.CTS.COM (Richard Sexton) (06/01/88)
>In article <1903@sugar.UUCP> peter@sugar.UUCP (Peter da Silva) writes: >|Personally I'd be happy to give up my parallel port for another serial port. >|Parallel printers are a historical dreg that has no technical justification. Jeesus Peter are you really as closed minded as you seem ? Besides being plain wrong about lack of "Technical justification" somtimes you dont have a choice (for whatever reason) of interfaces. My Postscript printer is serial, my color ink jet is parallel. Now, yes, that seems backwards to me too, but when they gave me this beast I didn't say: "fuck you, i aint taking no serial postscript printer, go get me a parallel one". Nor when i was able to buy a color inkjet for $199 did I say: "whoah! that puppy is PARALLEL fer gods sake, there is no technical justification for that, I'll go out and spend a couple of thou on a technically justified printer" I mean really. P.S. Don't bother sending another one of your insipid flames, the last three had no effect. -- noalias went. it really wasn't negotiable richard@gryphon.CTS.COM rutgers!marque!gryphon!richard