rhuffman@aa.ecn.purdue.edu (Rodney L Huffman) (03/09/88)
In article <10136@ulysses.homer.nj.att.com> eric@hector (Eric Lavitsky) writes: concerning the SDP: >It's been physically shown at both AmiExpos (NYC and LA) - the software is >under way now. Not to put you on the spot (well, not much of one), but could you give us some idea as to the release date of SDP?
flocchini@deneb.ucdavis.edu (0048;0000007472;200;745;53;) (05/17/88)
References: <834@esunix.UUCP> Sender:Bob Flocchini Reply-To: flocchini@deneb.ucdavis.edu.UUCP (PUT YOUR NAME HERE) Followup-To: Organization: University of California, Davis In article <834@esunix.UUCP> blgardne@esunix.UUCP (Blaine Gardner) writes: >There was a message on a local BBS this weekend saying that ASDG will >NOT be releasing the SDP. The poster said he talked to ASDG on the phone >(he was anxious to get an SDP to expand his BBS with), and they told him >that it is officially dead. > >Perry, Eric, is this true? If so, why? > >A pity if it is dead, it sounded like such a nice piece of hardware. >-- >Blaine Gardner @ Evans & Sutherland 540 Arapeen Drive, SLC, Utah 84108 >UUCP Addresses: {ihnp4,ucbvax,allegra,decvax}!decwrl!esunix!blgardne > ihnp4!utah-cs!esunix!blgardne usna!esunix!blgardne >"Nobody will ever need more than 64K." "Nobody needs multitasking on a PC." I received a call from Patricia Chounard at Chouinard Technologies informing me that she would not be able to deliver a SDP ( for my 1000 ). She said Perry had called her and that the product was dropped. This is a fairly recent decision because when I placed the order about a month ago I was told that the product would be available on June 1. Bob Flocchini flocchini@deneb.ucdavis.edu
perry@well.UUCP (Perry S. Kivolowitz) (05/19/88)
People have been enquiring here after the SDP (Satellite Disk Processor). Here's the full story: The SDP has been dropped from ASDG's future plans due to the unmarketability of the product. Here's why we consider the product unmarketable: 1986 1988 Average Cost Average Cost Of A Controller: $500 Of A Controller: $250 Average Speed For A Average Speed For A Read On An Average Read On An Average Drive: 20KB/s Drive: 200KB/s Cost Of An SDP: $1299 Average Speed For A Read On An Average Drive: 600KB/s In 1986 the SDP cost 2.6 times more than an average controller but gave 30 times the performance. In 1988 the SDP cost 5.2 times more than an average controller but gives 3 times the performance. The SDP in unmarketable due to eroding price/performance ratios. We would think that VERY FEW people would find a 3 fold increase in speed (for an average 65 msec drive) would be worth 5 times more money. Noone feels worse than us. We spent thousands of hours and tens of thousands of dollars (hundreds of thousands if you include lost sales and lost credibility) on the project which at least earns us the right NOT to be accused of being purveyors of vaporware. Especially in light of the fact that if the product WAS available you probably wouldn't have bought it. Sure we made some mistakes. Mistakes which we won't make again. For example, the SDP design criteria was performance over cost. The mistake is that no designer should EVER abandon cost reduc- tion in favor of performance if the product is to be sold in a consumer marketplace. Another mistake was placing too much stock in the (then) current non-performance of Amiga hard disks. It is unfortunate and iron- ic that demise of the SDP is actually a testimonial to the hard work of Steve Beats et al at CBM (for the new file system). So sure, we made some mistakes. But noone will suffer as much for these mistakes as we will. And noone will profit from these lessons learned, as we will. So you can look forward to some pretty funky stuff coming from ASDG in the future. For example, we've brought an industry stan- dard daughter board interface to the A2000 with a new product called Twin-X. (Another lesson learned, Twin-X was finished be- fore we discussed it with anyone). Twin-X allows you to install any two of hundreds of IEEE-959 daughter boards already available on your A2000. A to D, D to A Serial Ports, Parallel Ports, Servo Motor Controllers, SCSI, QIC 02, GPIB - litterally any I/O function now plugs and plays on the A2000. We're looking for software developers who see vertic- al market opportunities with this board. Contact us, we'll pro- vide the board and help you locate the right daughter board. Anyway, I don't want to stray into too much commercialism. I did want to dispell any rumors concerning the SDP and explain why we have decided that it's too late to try to market it. Perry Kivolowitz (608) 273-6585
cheung@vu-vlsi.Villanova.EDU (Wilson Cheung) (05/19/88)
I talked to one of the people of ASDG and the primary reason for dropping SDP is that its price was starting to push beyond the $1300 mark! and in light of the newer Amiga filing system it seemed that no customer would be willing to pay such a high price for what would turn out to be a small increase in speed. Then I talked to the person about the 2000 and 1 expansion box and as usual absolutely no definite date could be given. It certainly sounds like ASDG as a company is in serious trouble. That $1300 price for SDP that was set at $450 a year ago indicates a lot of ASDG's time and money was spent on SDP. Wilson Cheung
kim@amdahl.uts.amdahl.com (Kim DeVaughn) (05/20/88)
In article <5992@well.UUCP>, perry@well.UUCP (Perry S. Kivolowitz) writes: > > The SDP has been dropped from ASDG's future plans due to the > unmarketability of the product. Here's why we consider the > product unmarketable: > > [ ... ] > > Cost Of An SDP: $1299 > Average Speed For A Read On An Average Drive: 600KB/s > > In 1986 the SDP cost 2.6 times more than an average controller > but gave 30 times the performance. > > In 1988 the SDP cost 5.2 times more than an average controller > but gives 3 times the performance. > > The SDP in unmarketable due to eroding price/performance ratios. > We would think that VERY FEW people would find a 3 fold increase > in speed (for an average 65 msec drive) would be worth 5 times > more money. As I have told Perry via email, I don't agree with this analysis. I think there *is* enough of a market for a "high-end" hard disk controller to make such a product worth marketing. I know that *I* still want one, and I suspect there are quite a few others that do also. Perhaps if enough people let Perry/Eric/ASDG know this, they will reconsider their decision, and make the SDP(I) available in some form. /kim -- UUCP: kim@amdahl.amdahl.com or: {sun,decwrl,hplabs,pyramid,ihnp4,uunet,oliveb,cbosgd,ames}!amdahl!kim DDD: 408-746-8462 USPS: Amdahl Corp. M/S 249, 1250 E. Arques Av, Sunnyvale, CA 94086 CIS: 76535,25
thomson@utah-cs.UUCP (Richard A Thomson) (05/20/88)
In article <5992@well.UUCP> perry@well.UUCP (Perry S. Kivolowitz) writes: >Twin-X allows you to install any two of hundreds of IEEE-959 >daughter boards already available on your A2000. A to D, D to A >Serial Ports, Parallel Ports, Servo Motor Controllers, SCSI, QIC >02, GPIB - litterally any I/O function now plugs and plays on >the A2000. We're looking for software developers who see vertic- >al market opportunities with this board. Contact us, we'll pro- >vide the board and help you locate the right daughter board. I'd be interested in this software developer deal that you're talking about. I've been trying to find some vendor who'll offer IEEE 488 boards for the Amiga so that the Amiga could enter the laboratory control marketplace. I've worked on Apple II systems designed to control HPLC pumps and do what's called gradient control. I worked on this system through Gilson Medical Electronics, which was the first company to offer a microcomputer based solution to gradient control of HPLC systems. Currently here at U of U I'm working on my PhD in computer science. I already have a BS in electrical engineering which I would like to use to apply hard- ware skills towards problems in improving the interface between the scientist and the computer as a modelling and experimental tool. Please tell me more about your product and how I can get on board as a developer. I think a product like this could make real inroads in markets targetting laboratory control. The big complaint I've heard from many scientists is that they can't use their computer to do word processing while they are running an experiment. Althought the performance of exp. control has increased with IBM PC based systems versus Apple IIe based systems, this is still a major gripe for them. Many of these experiments do not demand continuous real-time response, so it is feasible that a good adjustment of task priorities between the exp. controller and the word processor would solve the problem. Of course, with an Amiga 2000, they could get full multi-tasking by dedicating the IBM side to control the experiment if it demanded enough attention. This applies for current customers who would like to upgrade their computers or do something while their comptuer monitors the experiment. Some of these experiments take days to complete, so the time the computer is tied up is significant. By the way, I am impressed with the track record of ASDG so far, including the story with the SDP. Even though you can't market the SDP as you've described in your article, the fact that you were honest enough to announce the problems and explain your difficulties shows me the commitment that you have to excellence, quality and more importantly a lack of bullshit. I'm looking forward to upgrading my 1000 with the 2000-n-1 box when it becomes available. Regards, Rich Thomson -- Rich Thomson, Oasis Technologies, 3190 MEB, U of U, Salt Lake City, Utah 84112 (801) 584-4555 thomson@cs.utah.edu {bellcore,ihnp4,ut-sally}!utah-cs!thomson Science: the modern mythology
ssd@sugar.UUCP (Scott Denham) (05/20/88)
In article <5992@well.UUCP>, perry@well.UUCP (Perry S. Kivolowitz) writes: > The SDP has been dropped from ASDG's future plans due to the > unmarketability of the product. Here's why we consider the > product unmarketable: ( munch, munch, munch of digested lines) > So sure, we made some mistakes. But noone will suffer as much > for these mistakes as we will. And noone will profit from these > lessons learned, as we will. > (munch) > So you can look forward to some pretty funky stuff coming from > ASDG in the future. For example, we've brought an industry stan- (chomp) > the A2000. We're looking for software developers who see vertic- > al market opportunities with this board. Contact us, we'll pro- > vide the board and help you locate the right daughter board. > Anyway, I don't want to stray into too much commercialism. I did > want to dispell any rumors concerning the SDP and explain why we > have decided that it's too late to try to market it. > > Perry Kivolowitz All I can say, Perry, is that you've lost no credibility with ME, and you have my admiration for coming out in simple bs-free terms as to what happened to the product and why. You can't be expeceted to provide good support to your customers by concentrating on a dead-end product. I had great hoipes of getting an SDP for my very own, but you"re right, at todays market I wouldn't pay nearly $1200 for one - it's just not worth it (even if it costs that). My condolences on your unfortunate decision. 'twas a great idea, and I hope the inspiration and engineering that went into it find their way into one of your other fine products.! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Scott S. Denham Western Atlas International Houston, Texas ------------------------------------------------------------------------ The opinons expressed herin are solely my own (or else those of this #&&#& cat sleeping on my head)
perry@well.UUCP (Perry S. Kivolowitz) (05/21/88)
In article <1602@vu-vlsi.Villanova.EDU>, cheung@vu-vlsi.Villanova.EDU (Wilson Cheung) writes: > It certainly sounds like ASDG as a company is in serious trouble. Absolutely not. In fact, we're undergoing some pretty radical expansion. Our test and development facilities have risen by a factor of 10. Our staff has doubled. And our design and production capability has never been better. Don't take a business decision and net silence as a sign of poor health. Rather take it as getting down to hardcore development. By the way Wilson, your comment is not appreciated.
peter@sugar.UUCP (Peter da Silva) (05/21/88)
In article <5992@well.UUCP>, perry@well.UUCP (Perry S. Kivolowitz) writes: > Twin-X allows you to install any two of hundreds of IEEE-959 > daughter boards already available on your A2000. A to D, D to A > Serial Ports, Parallel Ports, Servo Motor Controllers, SCSI, QIC > 02, GPIB - litterally any I/O function now plugs and plays on > the A2000. We're looking for software developers who see vertic- > al market opportunities with this board. Contact us, we'll pro- > vide the board and help you locate the right daughter board. Could you let us in on just what IEEE 959 is? I have long longed for a low-cost widely-used bus for the Amiga, and this sounds like just what the doctor ordered. A lot of applications have to little a market for the overhead of a full autoconfig board. Personally I'd hoped for a SOTS Apple-][ bus. And... more commercialism... how's the 2000-and-1 coming? -- -- Peter da Silva `-_-' ...!hoptoad!academ!uhnix1!sugar!peter -- "Have you hugged your U wolf today?" ...!bellcore!tness1!sugar!peter -- Disclaimer: These may be the official opinions of Hackercorp.
doug-merritt@cup.portal.com (05/22/88)
Wilson Cheung writes: > It certainly sounds like ASDG as a company is in serious trouble. Perry replies: >By the way Wilson, your comment is not appreciated. Agree...companies cancel products under development all the time in order to *stay* healthy by avoiding making mistakes. Presumably Wilson has not been involved with computer product R&D companies, else he'd know that. >Absolutely not. In fact, we're undergoing some pretty radical expansion. >Our test and development facilities have risen by a factor of 10. Our >staff has doubled. And our design and production capability has never >been better. Please be very cautious, Perry...I've seen firsthand many companies run into trouble due to radical growth. One of the biggest problems that can arise is one of structure; it's hard to optimize corporate organization when A) "everyone" is new and somewhat green, and B) things are changing faster than you can think about them. Notable counterexamples include Apple and Sun, both of whom grew at an incredible pace and did not fall apart under the stress. So please don't feel that I'm criticizing. Just "forewarned is fore-armed". >Don't take a business decision and net silence as a sign of poor health. >Rather take it as getting down to hardcore development. Great, glad to hear it! I'm always interested to hear what's going on with ASDG. I find your company's track record to be quite admirable. It's a shame that the SDP will be disappearing altogether. Would it be feasible to license the design, or offer it as a kit, or some such??? Doug --- Doug Merritt ucbvax!sun.com!cup.portal.com!doug-merritt or ucbvax!eris!doug (doug@eris.berkeley.edu) or ucbvax!unisoft!certes!doug
perry@well.UUCP (Perry S. Kivolowitz) (05/23/88)
In article <2036@sugar.UUCP>, peter@sugar.UUCP (Peter da Silva) writes: > Could you let us in on just what IEEE 959 is? I have long longed for > a low-cost widely-used bus for the Amiga, and this sounds like just > what the doctor ordered. A lot of applications have to little a market > for the overhead of a full autoconfig board. IEEE-959 is the standard which grew out of Intel's iSBX(tm) daughterboard standard for 8 and 16 bit daughterboards (or modules). These modules are commonly used in MultiBus (I and II)(tm), VMEbus(tm), and IBM PC(etc) computers. I recently surveyed over 250 modules from over thirty manufacturers of- fering nearly every type of functionality one can imagine. Prices range anywhere from 150 to 1000 dollars. As I've mentioned before, we are cur- rently designing our own modules to perform various key functions like serial ports, scsi, math, and GPIB. The strength of this product is that it allows the Amiga to (quickly) go where its never gone before. Its weakness (with respect to the consumer market) is that with all the hundreds of functions the board can perform, there is no hope that ASDG will write ALL the drivers in any short time span. That's where you developer types come in. Envision a vertical mark- et application - and go for it. We'll help. Please, I can't get enough time on Usenet let alone answer email. Serious potential developers should contact me by phone since email will probably never get seen. Perry@ASDG (608) 273-6585
bakken@hrsw2.UUCP (David E. Bakken) (05/28/88)
In article <5740@cup.portal.com>, doug-merritt@cup.portal.com writes: > It's a shame that the SDP will be disappearing altogether. Would it > be feasible to license the design, or offer it as a kit, or some such??? Or even offer your samples/prototypes on a as-is basis??! I know Kim and maybe Doug would be interested in this. But then the prototypes are probably on ASDG's machines at work or home (don't blame them)!!! -- Dave Bakken Boeing Commercial Airplanes (206) 277-2571 uw-beaver!apcisea!hrsw2!bakken Disclaimer: These are my own views, not those of my employers. Don't let them deter you from buying the 747 you've been saving hard for.
daveh@cbmvax.UUCP (Dave Haynie) (06/01/88)
in article <1602@vu-vlsi.Villanova.EDU>, cheung@vu-vlsi.Villanova.EDU (Wilson Cheung) says: > Keywords: death of > It certainly sounds like ASDG as a company is in serious trouble. That > $1300 price for SDP that was set at $450 a year ago indicates a lot of > ASDG's time and money was spent on SDP. I don't recall ASDG's original price on SDP, but I doubt it was $450 a year ago. Having seen the board, I can attest to the fact that it was very complicated, having it's own 68000, quad-ported RAM, and lots of other neat stuff. It would have been an interesting product, if done in time, but I think they made the right move for ASDG in not marketing it. Since I've been at Commodore, I've seen many projects bite the dust for much the same reasons. It can sometimes take a year or more to develop a complicated piece of hardware, and there's no guarantee that the market can still support such a thing when it's done. I'm sure ASDG spent lots of time and money on SDP, but they'd probably be spending lots more time and money on it if they continued. It's a tough decision to axe a product at any point in development, but a smart company will do so if it's in their interest. > Wilson Cheung -- Dave Haynie "The B2000 Guy" Commodore-Amiga "The Crew That Never Rests" {ihnp4|uunet|rutgers}!cbmvax!daveh PLINK: D-DAVE H BIX: hazy "I can't relax, 'cause I'm a Boinger!"
michael@stb.UUCP (Michael) (06/05/88)
Or they could just put a jumper in, one position for 64K chips, one for 256K chips, and you switch the jumper when you can afford bigger chips. How many of you have 64K chips just lying around from another computer? (I do) Or, they could sell the software as a high performance read ahead buffering package for hard disks and floppies, so those of you with 8 meg memory (me? Nah, another two years before I can afford it) can get the high speed, and those of us with 2 meg can at least get better than facc. Or, if all else fails, someone can hack facc II into hacc ii Michael : --- : Michael Gersten uunet.uu.net!denwa!stb!michael : ihnp4!hermix!ucla-an!denwa!stb!michael : sdcsvax!crash!gryphon!denwa!stb!michael : "Machine Takeover? Just say no." : "Sockets? Just say no." <-- gasoline