steveb@cbmvax.UUCP (Steve Beats) (06/10/88)
In article <4388@gryphon.CTS.COM> bilbo@pnet02.cts.com (Bill Daggett) writes: >Over the last 1.5 years I have had a rare internal drive problem. >All of a sudden a disk that has worked FINE when put into the internal drive >(df0:) will make a "tick-like" sound at the rate of the disk speed (which I >think is 300 rpm or so) and fail to WORK at all. Info gives "Unreadable disk" >and trying Dir gives the requester "Not a DOS disk" or some such. > >Thanks in advance for any knowledge you can throw to me about this. > This is not a flippant answer! Believe it or not, I have found the giving the offending disk a good solid heft in the direction of the nearest wall generally makes the problem go away. I did it out of frustration one day and the disk worked when I tried it again. This has since happened on three other occasions and the "wall trick" fixed things up. Steve PS. I accept no responsibility for damaged wallpaper or pictures :-)
sterling@cbmvax.UUCP (Rick Sterling QA) (06/10/88)
In article <4388@gryphon.CTS.COM> bilbo@pnet02.cts.com (Bill Daggett) writes: > Over the last 1.5 years I have had a rare internal drive problem. > All of a sudden a disk that has worked FINE when put into the internal drive > (df0:) will make a "tick-like" sound at the rate of the disk speed (which I > think is 300 rpm or so) and fail to WORK at all. Info gives "Unreadable disk" > and trying Dir gives the requester "Not a DOS disk" or some such. > > When this disk is used in the external drive (df1:) it spins up nice and quiet > and works fine. Further more, another disk placed in the internal drive works > fine too. So, I suspect some dimensional change has occurred on the affected > disk and that I have a dimensional difference somewhere in my floppy drives > that amounts to this problem. The "ticking-like" sound probably slows the > disk speed or causes it to be erratic enough that nothing gets read. I have > been unable to determine EXACTLY what is rubing. Since the affected disks > work fine in my other drive and other disks work fine in the internal drive I > put the internal drive at fault somehow. > > The solution in the past (there have been about 3 previous disks that have > acted up this same way in the last 1.5 years) has been to copy the data from > the affected disk in the external drive to a good disk that works O.K. in the > internal drive and throw the affected disk away. HOWEVER, this last time it > occurred on my Marble Madness disk which is copy protected and things aren't > so simple. > > Does anyone identify with this problem?? BTW, the drives are identical > Matsushita JU-363-03 drives. Is there something I can "tweek" in the affected > drive to make it more forgiving?? > > Once the "tick-like" sound develops it does not mysteriously disappear. > Clearly something changed in the disk and something is more untolerant in the > internal drive. > > Thanks in advance for any knowledge you can throw to me about this. > > Bill > The 'ticking' sound is most probably caused by the disk drive spindle pin failing to catch properly on the diskette's drive hub slot. Check for foreign material in or on the diskette's metal hub and make sure the diskette media turns freely. I've also seen an occasional diskette where the drive slot on the hub is not to spec and will cause the intermitant problems. ============================================================================= Rick Sterling COMMODORE AMIGA TEST ENGINEERING // /_ |\/||/_ /_ UUCP ...{allegra,ihnp4,rutgers}!cbmvax!sterling \X/ / \| ||\// \ PHONE 215-431-9275 ============================================================================= Everybody likes hard work ... especially when THEY'RE paying for it. =============================================================================
lishka@uwslh.UUCP (Fish-Guts) (06/10/88)
In article <4388@gryphon.CTS.COM> bilbo@pnet02.cts.com (Bill Daggett) writes: >Over the last 1.5 years I have had a rare internal drive problem. >All of a sudden a disk that has worked FINE when put into the internal drive >(df0:) will make a "tick-like" sound at the rate of the disk speed (which I >think is 300 rpm or so) and fail to WORK at all. Info gives "Unreadable disk" >and trying Dir gives the requester "Not a DOS disk" or some such. You're not going to believe the explanation and resulting fix, but I swear on my honor that this worked for me. First a little background. I bought my a1000 from a friend, and noticed that my Workbench disk (about 1.5yrs old) would have the same "clicking" sound. This sound is much as you described it: the disk drive would whirr up to speed accompanied by a "click-click-click-click...". This was happening only occasionally at first, but when it did happen the drive would fail to read my disk properly, and then sometimes requesters would pop up to inform me that the disk was corrupt and that I should get DiskDoctor to work on the damned thing. Now, I figured "HEY! This here workbench disk is not a very good brand and it is old; must just be the disk that is causing the problem." So I recopied it, and all was fine and dandy; no other disks were giving me grief. Until the day I decided that my machine needed a cleaning (our cat was shedding...you also wouldn't believe the amount of cat hair and fuzz I pulled out of the keyboard and disk drives!). After I put the machine back together, I found that good ol' df0: was making clicking noises with *every* disk, and that it was failing to read even my Kickstart disk about 50% of the time (recall that all other disks were fine before). "Oh no!," I thought, "My Amiga internal drive is messed up!" Which was a reasonable explanation, given that the machine was one of the earlier models and underwent fairly heavy use from my friend. Now, I am the curious type who *loves* to take apart mechanical items, broken or otherwise. So I pulled out my tools and decided to check what was broken on the disk drive. I pulled off the front panel of the computer (after opening the entire machine up), and to my surprise I discovered that the problem had disappeared! df0: was now working fine after the plastic front panel had been removed. Now I was really bewildered. To make a long story a wee bit shorter, after about a half-an-hour of close inspection of both should-be-broken df0: and working-fine df1:, I discovered that the little plastic knob that fits on the eject button of df0: was not being allowed to travel out as far as it should. This was caused by a depression in the front plastic panel (where the knob set into, around the hole for the knob) being the wrong size, and part of the plastic knob was rubbing on the edge of the hole. The end result was that the knob was not popping out as far as it should, and therefore the "clamping" procedure that the drive goes through when a disk is inserted was not clamping the disk down hard enough, allowing for some play (i.e. up-and-down movement of the disk could be noticed even when the front panel was on). The fix: using an X-acto knife and a couple small files I carved the edges of the depression so they would be larger. Then I gingerly filed down the plastic knob, making sure that there was enough plastic to still maintain the structural integrity of the beast. After a few tries, I had filed and cut enough and the knob was able to travel out as far as it should. I put the whole machine back together and *VOILA* everything has worked fine for several months now. Pretty funky. Your problem sounds a lot like this one. I would investigate further and see if the improperly cut depression is indeed the cause of all of this. If it is, the only skills you need to repair it are a) the ability to open up your a1000 (not too hard) and b) the ability to carve away plastic. Something that can be done on a Sunday morning! (Actually, that is the day I did it myself). >When this disk is used in the external drive (df1:) it spins up nice and quiet >and works fine. Further more, another disk placed in the internal drive works >fine too. So, I suspect some dimensional change has occurred on the affected >disk and that I have a dimensional difference somewhere in my floppy drives >that amounts to this problem. The "ticking-like" sound probably slows the >disk speed or causes it to be erratic enough that nothing gets read. I have >been unable to determine EXACTLY what is rubing. Since the affected disks >work fine in my other drive and other disks work fine in the internal drive I >put the internal drive at fault somehow. > I am not sure where the dimensional changes came from on yours or my machine. I would suspect that this "problem" always existed, but that as the drives got older, they were less tolerant of the problem. In any event, the fix I applied solved the problem. >The solution in the past (there have been about 3 previous disks that have >acted up this same way in the last 1.5 years) has been to copy the data from >the affected disk in the external drive to a good disk that works O.K. in the >internal drive and throw the affected disk away. HOWEVER, this last time it >occurred on my Marble Madness disk which is copy protected and things aren't >so simple. If it is like my problem, it will get to the point where all disks begin to click in the drive. Major bum-out ;-) >Does anyone identify with this problem?? BTW, the drives are identical >Matsushita JU-363-03 drives. Is there something I can "tweek" in the affected >drive to make it more forgiving?? I think my drives are of the Panasonic variety (which may be the same as the Matsushita). I could be wrong. >Once the "tick-like" sound develops it does not mysteriously disappear. >Clearly something changed in the disk and something is more untolerant in the >internal drive. The difference between the two drives is that the plastic front panel on the external drive doesn't have the same problem with the depression interfering with the knob. >Thanks in advance for any knowledge you can throw to me about this. I'm always happy to be of some assistance. Fell free to email me (or reply via netnews if the path to my machine doesn't work) for more information or questions. >Bill -Chris -- ---- ---- Chris Lishka Wisconsin State Lab of Hygiene (608)262-1617 lishka@uwslh.uucp OR lishka%uwslh.uucp@cs.wisc.edu OR ...!{rutgers | ucbvax | ihnp4 | ...}!uwvax!uwslh!lishka ---- ---- "...Just because someone is shy and gets straight A's does not mean they won't put wads of gum in your arm pits." - Lynda Barry, "Ernie Pook's Commeek: Gum of Mystery"
gay%CLSEPF51.BITNET@cunyvm.cuny.edu (David Gay) (06/10/88)
Yes, I have the same problem, except that the drives are reversed (the external one causes trouble). I even had a batch of disks (SKC) which would develop a read/write error if written to on the external drive (they read fine). Very inconvenient ! I even took the drive apart (my warranty expired a long time ago), but I couldn't see a single thing which could be adjusted ... I just live with the problem. David Gay GAY@CLSEPF51.bitnet Glorf !
jmpiazza@sunybcs.uucp (Joseph M. Piazza) (06/11/88)
In article <3985@cbmvax.UUCP> steveb@cbmvax.UUCP (Steve Beats) writes: >In article <4388@gryphon.CTS.COM> bilbo@pnet02.cts.com (Bill Daggett) writes: >>Over the last 1.5 years I have had a rare internal drive problem. >>All of a sudden a disk that has worked FINE when put into the internal drive >>(df0:) will make a "tick-like" sound at the rate of the disk speed (which I >>think is 300 rpm or so) and fail to WORK at all. Info gives "Unreadable disk" >>and trying Dir gives the requester "Not a DOS disk" or some such. >> >>Thanks in advance for any knowledge you can throw to me about this. >> >This is not a flippant answer! Believe it or not, I have found the giving >the offending disk a good solid heft in the direction of the nearest wall >generally makes the problem go away. I did it out of frustration one day >and the disk worked when I tried it again. This has since happened on three >other occasions and the "wall trick" fixed things up. I've experiences such a problem and similar, though less violent, solution. I've had a few disks that seem to have a misalignment of the floppy part of the floppy as if it didn't want to spin. Jockying this floppette about freed it and allowed it to work with no other problems. This happened on a Mac SE as well as me Amiga. Flip side, joe piazza --- Cogito ergo equus sum. CS Dept. SUNY at Buffalo 14260 UUCP: ..!{ames,boulder,decvax,rutgers}!sunybcs!jmpiazza GEnie: jmpiazza BITNET: jmpiazza@sunybcs.BITNET Internet: jmpiazza@cs.Buffalo.edu
bilbo@pnet02.cts.com (Bill Daggett) (06/11/88)
steveb@cbmvax.UUCP (Steve Beats) writes: >In article <4388@gryphon.CTS.COM> bilbo@pnet02.cts.com (Bill Daggett) writes: >>Over the last 1.5 years I have had a rare internal drive problem. >>All of a sudden a disk that has worked FINE when put into the internal drive >>(df0:) will make a "tick-like" sound at the rate of the disk speed (which I >>think is 300 rpm or so) and fail to WORK at all. Info gives "Unreadable disk" >>and trying Dir gives the requester "Not a DOS disk" or some such. >> >>Thanks in advance for any knowledge you can throw to me about this. >> >This is not a flippant answer! Believe it or not, I have found the giving >the offending disk a good solid heft in the direction of the nearest wall >generally makes the problem go away. I did it out of frustration one day >and the disk worked when I tried it again. This has since happened on three >other occasions and the "wall trick" fixed things up. > > Steve > >PS. I accept no responsibility for damaged wallpaper or pictures :-) Steve, I almost believe you, except I haven't thrown the disk yet. :-) I threw one once and broke it thus I never tried that again and never had a chance to realize the fix. I am repeating my original message to see if ANYONE else has anything to add to this? What exactly has happened inside the disk to cause this and why would throwing the disk against a wall (a very hard rap) fix it? Excuse me, I've got a disk to throw. Bill UUCP: {ihnp4!scgvaxd!cadovax rutgers!marque}!gryphon!pnet02!bilbo INET: bilbo@pnet02.cts.com * Sometimes The Dragon Wins! * Still looking for the best Amiga BBS software to resurrect Bilbo's Hideaway on - but not holding breath!
bilbo@pnet02.cts.com (Bill Daggett) (06/12/88)
sterling@cbmvax.UUCP (Rick Sterling QA) writes: >In article <4388@gryphon.CTS.COM> bilbo@pnet02.cts.com (Bill Daggett) writes: >> Over the last 1.5 years I have had a rare internal drive problem. >> All of a sudden a disk that has worked FINE when put into the internal drive >> (df0:) will make a "tick-like" sound at the rate of the disk speed (which I >> think is 300 rpm or so) and fail to WORK at all. Info gives "Unreadable disk" >> and trying Dir gives the requester "Not a DOS disk" or some such. >> >> When this disk is used in the external drive (df1:) it spins up nice and quiet >> and works fine. Further more, another disk placed in the internal drive works >> fine too. So, I suspect some dimensional change has occurred on the affected >> disk and that I have a dimensional difference somewhere in my floppy drives >> that amounts to this problem. The "ticking-like" sound probably slows the >> disk speed or causes it to be erratic enough that nothing gets read. I have >> been unable to determine EXACTLY what is rubing. Since the affected disks >> work fine in my other drive and other disks work fine in the internal drive I >> put the internal drive at fault somehow. >> >> The solution in the past (there have been about 3 previous disks that have >> acted up this same way in the last 1.5 years) has been to copy the data from >> the affected disk in the external drive to a good disk that works O.K. in the >> internal drive and throw the affected disk away. HOWEVER, this last time it >> occurred on my Marble Madness disk which is copy protected and things aren't >> so simple. >> >> Does anyone identify with this problem?? BTW, the drives are identical >> Matsushita JU-363-03 drives. Is there something I can "tweek" in the affected >> drive to make it more forgiving?? >> >> Once the "tick-like" sound develops it does not mysteriously disappear. >> Clearly something changed in the disk and something is more untolerant in the >> internal drive. >> >> Thanks in advance for any knowledge you can throw to me about this. >> >> Bill >> > > The 'ticking' sound is most probably caused by the disk drive spindle pin > failing to catch properly on the diskette's drive hub slot. Check for > foreign material in or on the diskette's metal hub and make sure the > diskette media turns freely. I've also seen an occasional diskette where the > drive slot on the hub is not to spec and will cause the intermitant problems. > >============================================================================= > Rick Sterling COMMODORE AMIGA TEST ENGINEERING > // /_ |\/||/_ /_ UUCP ...{allegra,ihnp4,rutgers}!cbmvax!sterling >\X/ / \| ||\// \ PHONE 215-431-9275 >============================================================================= > Everybody likes hard work ... especially when THEY'RE paying for it. >============================================================================= > > > This isn't intermittant. The disk has worked fine for several months, then all of a sudden starts making this short rubbing sound at about the rate of the disk speed. And in each of the 3 cases I have experienced NONE have ever started working right again. The spindle is clean. The disk turns very free and is comparable to other disks that work fine. The rubbing sound I think is enough to drive the disk speed down and that is why it fails to read properly. Since this is continuous NOTHING gets read properly and all the computer knows is that there is a disk there. I played a game of Marble Madness, stuck the disk in my shirt pocket and went off to a User Meeting (WAUG), didn't bump into anything, came home and attempted to boot it up for a nightcap game - nothing. I recognized the sound immediately from the 2 previous times. Is it possible that my body heat warped the media slightly? Outrageous thought isn't it? Now if a fox held the disk that might melt it! Hmmm... BTW, I tossed the disk a number of times against the wall, floor, ceiling, etc. all to no avail. The shutter came off and I tried booting without it but there was no change so the shutter nor the shutter spring gets no blame. AND, I can QuickNibble (God bless there being ways to defeat copy protection for personal archive) would make a nice copy from df1: to a blank disk in df0:... so there are two differences here. Something changed physically on the disk and there is some physical difference between my two drives. I appreciate the effort you are taking to try and resolve this. In the end I will of course send the disk back to Electronic Arts, pay whatever the outrageous going fee is, and be done with it - unless something simple is discovered here. Bill UUCP: {ihnp4!scgvaxd!cadovax rutgers!marque}!gryphon!pnet02!bilbo INET: bilbo@pnet02.cts.com * Sometimes The Dragon Wins! * Still looking for the best Amiga BBS software to resurrect Bilbo's Hideaway on - but not holding breath!