thomson@utah-cs.UUCP (Rich Thomson) (06/09/88)
In article <1849@hubcap.UUCP> disd@hubcap.UUCP (Gary Heffelfinger) writes: >I have not sent in a contribution for Draco [but] I ... appreciate it a great >deal. A compiler, even one that's "non-standard" (Read, "not C") could do well >if priced right. The compilers on the Amiga market are all quite >expensive for the casual programmer who's grown tired of AmigaBasic. You should check out the freely distributable C compiler that someone on the net here (sorry, I've forgotten who) is working on. Last I heard they just had floating point bugs to work out. The compiler now compiles itself and many small test programs correctly. This person has taken on a huge problem and made significant progress in a short time. In addition there are other commercially available languages for < $100. I have seen JForth priced as low as $59 and there are also several PD forth implementations available on FISH disks. Although these PD imps. don't allow you to create stand-alone code (as far as I know), it is possible to extend them to allow for this capability. Anyway, you could try out the flavor of FORTH before you ever bought a commercial package, at least. There are other languages that are in a similar price range; Gary mentioned that he programs in TDI Modula-2. I think the M2 compilers are in a similar price range. Now if you want a full-blown language implementation for < $100, I think you're asking for a little much. But either JForth or Multi-Forth do a good job with slightly different flavors of FORTH. If anyone is interested in hearing about FORTH programming specifically on the Amiga, I maintain a mailing list on the subject; send an addition request to: amiga-forth-request@cs.utah.edu (currently at issue 16) >Gary Heffelfinger --- Employed by, but not the mouthpiece of > Clemson University. >---=== Amiga. The computer for the best of us. ===--- -- Rich Thomson, Oasis Technologies, 3190 MEB, U of U, Salt Lake City, Utah 84112 (801) 584-4555 thomson@cs.utah.edu {bellcore,ihnp4,ut-sally}!utah-cs!thomson Help stamp out drug mythology in our lifetime
disd@hubcap.UUCP (Gary Heffelfinger) (06/13/88)
From article <5541@utah-cs.UUCP>, by thomson@utah-cs.UUCP (Rich Thomson): > In article <1849@hubcap.UUCP> disd@hubcap.UUCP (Gary Heffelfinger) writes: >>I have not sent in a contribution for Draco [but] I ... appreciate it a great >>deal. A compiler, even one that's "non-standard" (Read, "not C") could do well >>if priced right. The compilers on the Amiga market are all quite >>expensive for the casual programmer who's grown tired of AmigaBasic. > > You should check out the freely distributable C compiler that someone on the > net here (sorry, I've forgotten who) is working on. Last I heard they just > had floating point bugs to work out. The compiler now compiles itself and many > small test programs correctly. This person has taken on a huge problem and > made significant progress in a short time. I've got Aztec on the way so I'm not really interested, but other casual programmers might be. The idea of a PD compiler is great for wizards who can pick up the slack when the implementer graduates or buys a M*c II. I personally would rather have a commercial product because it usually means some measure of commitment to the product. (There are of course exceptions to both sides of this issue. Mr Gray has done an admirable job with Draco, and TDI has done a < admirable job with its Modula 2 compiler.) > > In addition there are other commercially available languages for < $100. I > have seen JForth priced as low as $59 and there are also several PD forth > implementations available on FISH disks. Although these PD imps. don't allow > you to create stand-alone code (as far as I know), it is possible to extend > them to allow for this capability. Anyway, you could try out the flavor of > FORTH before you ever bought a commercial package, at least. Yes, I agree that Forth could be a good choice for the weekend programmer. My brain has been destroyed by the Algol/Fortran/Pascal syndrome and I find Forth a little tough to chew on, but others might not. (Former C64 owners might already have some Forth experience, as it seems like there are a fair number of implementations available for it.) > > There are other languages that are in a similar price range; Gary mentioned > that he programs in TDI Modula-2. I think the M2 compilers are in a similar > price range. Now if you want a full-blown language implementation for < $100, > I think you're asking for a little much. Hmmmm. I'm not sure I agree with that. Early versions of Borland's Turbo Pascal compiler had a list price under $50 dollars. (Current versions still list at $100.) Now whether or not you agree that Borland's Turbo line is worth the effort, you've got to admit that it's a pretty good deal for a hobbyist. I understand that the early Turbo price might have been based on the fact that there was a goodly base of CP/M users out there, and that the current price is based on the fact that there are a sh*tload of clone users. I think, though, that there just might be a large enough number of Amiga owners who'd like to have good implementation of any of the "traditional" languages, that the time might be right. Borland hit the PC market at the right time. Maybe someone could do the same thing with the Amiga market. I doubt that the installed base of CP/M users was all that much bigger than the Amiga user base is now, when Tubro Pascal was first introduced. > Rich Thomson, Oasis Technologies, 3190 MEB, U of U, Salt Lake City, Utah 84112 -- Gary Heffelfinger --- Employed by, but not the mouthpiece of Clemson University. ---=== Amiga. The computer for the best of us. ===---
terry@wsccs.UUCP (Every system needs one) (06/22/88)
In article <1898@hubcap.UUCP>, disd@hubcap.UUCP (Gary Heffelfinger) writes: > I think, though, that there > just might be a large enough number of Amiga owners who'd like to have > good implementation of any of the "traditional" languages, that the > time might be right. Borland hit the PC market at the right time. > Maybe someone could do the same thing with the Amiga market. The only problem with this is that Bordland advertised Turbo Pascal for the Amiga "Coming Soon" when the Amiga was first introduced. In addition, Commodore had it on their "runs on our machine" list waaaaaaayyyyy back when they were still practicing that quaint "marketing" thing they used to do... Now they assume that word-of-mouth is good enough, I guess. I have the four-color glossy to prove it. If Commodore truly wanted to get into the "office zone", they'd either get their sales up to 500,000 unit in the US (Ashton-Tate's limit on doing dBase), or offer to joint-venture with these companies that make traditional business software. The companies would not have to pay full freight on developement (in case Commodore orphaned the A500 and A2000, too) and would therefore be less skeptical. A number of larger companies, when asked what they thought of the Amiga, stated that they thought it was a "curiousity". To quote one official directly, "The Amiga will always have a cult following, but given the numbers sold over the time it's been out (600,000, according to AMAZING COMPUTING) compared to the number of IBM's or MAC's sold in the same period. Amiga's marketing isn't there". Unfortunately, unless you can provide a ready-made market for the "big boys", they won't play. (Actually... makes sense to me...) | Terry Lambert UUCP: ...{ decvax, ihnp4 } ...utah-cs!century!terry | | @ Century Software OR: ...utah-cs!uplherc!sp7040!obie!wsccs!terry | | SLC, Utah | | These opinions are not my companies, but if you find them | | useful, send a $20.00 donation to Brisbane Australia... | | 'Signatures; it's not how long you make them, it's how you make them long!' |