CRONEJP@UREGINA1.BITNET (Jonathan Crone) (06/28/88)
Someone want to post to Comp.sys.amiga the newest version of the HDDISK.DEVICE so that people will stop whining about those overscan problems???? would be a VERY intelligent response by Commodore to reported difficulties with products. Please note that i said COMP.SYS.AMIGA not BINARIES.... it will take too long to get through binaries, the guys are too far behind i suspect for a rush job.... jPc -------------------------------------------------------------------- Jonathan P. Crone Vice President, AURA, (Amiga Users of Regina Associated.) (Regina, Sask. Canada ) (eh???) CRONEJP@UREGINA1.BITNET ....uunet!mcl!cronejp come on now.... does ANYONE give a damn about what i have to say? --------------------------------------------------------------------
papa@pollux.usc.edu (Marco Papa) (06/28/88)
In article <8806280524.AA12822@jade.berkeley.edu> CRONEJP@UREGINA1.BITNET (Jonathan Crone) writes: >Someone want to post to Comp.sys.amiga the newest version of >the HDDISK.DEVICE so that people will stop whining about those >overscan problems???? Here it is. >would be a VERY intelligent response by Commodore to reported >difficulties with products. Commodore did post it on BIX in the public Amiga forum. They ARE responsive to these things. >Please note that i said COMP.SYS.AMIGA not BINARIES.... >it will take too long to get through binaries, the guys are too >far behind i suspect for a rush job.... OK. Just once. the file is not too big and of general use. So here it goes. P.S.: I think the comp.sources/binaries guys are doing a great job and I am against a split. I like the fact that they test stuff before sending out. 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end -- Marco Papa 'Doc' -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= uucp:...!pollux!papa BIX:papa ARPAnet:pollux!papa@oberon.usc.edu "There's Alpha, Beta, Gamma and Diga!" -- Leo Schwab [quoting Rick Unland] -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
cjp@antique.UUCP (Charles Poirier) (06/29/88)
I have the new hddisk.device, version 34.4, and I'm still whining. Oh, I suppose it works better than before - before, it just gave a R/W error requester. Now, it gets a good 1 kilobyte per second throughput. In other words, almost, but not quite, nothing at all. This with NO overscan, 640 wide, four-plane screen, A2090, Quantum Q280 28ms SCSI drive, Rev. 4.2 motherboard, no FFS. Just a plain old vanilla SCSI that ought to be my pride and joy rather than a pain in the posterior. (I'm no expert, but, 64 *bytes* of FIFO on the 2090?? Wouldn't 512 as a minimum, make more sense? Could that FIFO chip be just popped out and replaced by a bigger one?) Commodore! Yoo-hoo, Commodore! What do I do NOW? Help! -- Charles Poirier (decvax,ucbvax,mcnc,attmail)!vax135!cjp "Docking complete... Docking complete... Docking complete..."
vkr@osupyr.mast.ohio-state.edu (Vidhyanath K. Rao) (06/30/88)
In article <10174@oberon.USC.EDU>, papa@pollux.usc.edu (Marco Papa) writes: > Commodore did post it on BIX in the public Amiga forum. They ARE responsive > to these things. In the first place BIX costs quite a bit of money. In fact, the last time looked you had to suscribe to the damn magazine. I doubt that every user's group has at least one suscriber to BIX. It seems to me Commodore must try to be present on as many national BBS's as possible.
ngorelic@csm9a.UUCP (Noel Gorelick) (06/30/88)
In article <8806280524.AA12822@jade.berkeley.edu>, CRONEJP@UREGINA1.BITNET (Jonathan Crone) writes: > Someone want to post to Comp.sys.amiga the newest version of > the HDDISK.DEVICE so that people will stop whining about those > overscan problems???? Please pardon the uniniated, but what excatly is this overscan problem you speak of, and why would a new HDDISK.DEVICE fix it? (I though overscan stuff was screen oriented...) > Jonathan P. Crone > ....uunet!mcl!cronejp "You want it should sing too?" | ngorelic@csm9a <Never have figured out what goes here> ...isis!csm9a!ngorelic "Dis-Claimer Dat-Claimer, to look at | hpuecoa!bgphp1!ngorelic at 'em, you'd never know the diff." | (^^^^^^^-good luck finding that one..)
jesup@cbmvax.UUCP (Randell Jesup) (07/01/88)
In article <2320@antique.UUCP> vax135!cjp (Charles Poirier) writes: >I have the new hddisk.device, version 34.4, and I'm still whining. >Oh, I suppose it works better than before - before, it just gave >a R/W error requester. Now, it gets a good 1 kilobyte per second >throughput. In other words, almost, but not quite, nothing at all. >This with NO overscan, 640 wide, four-plane screen, A2090, Quantum Q280 >28ms SCSI drive, Rev. 4.2 motherboard, no FFS. OK, here goes. The thing that is really killing you is that 4-plane screen. With no real fast mem ($c00000 mem is as slow as chip), your driver only can get 1/3 as many cycles as normal (avg), much less when the beam is on-screen. Combined with the CPU not being able to grant DMA requests until the end of each line, and it really slows down transfers. If you haven't noticed, even floppies get a lot slower with such a screen up, even though their driver is in ROM (therefor fast), and they have dedicated DMA slots (i.e. don't have to wait for bus grant). The last thing that is happening is that we're not talking just a Read() request, we're probably talking an EA IFF reader, which isn't blazing itself. One thing the EA code is not known for is speed (especially at bitmaps - since they're stored in pixel form, not bitmap form, and have to be decoded on a pixel by pixel basis). It may be annoying, but there are two easy (though maybe a bit annoying) solutions: drag the screen down while loading things, or hit the screen-to-back gadget. (Or you could buy real fast memory, but that's a bit expensive right now). At least you don't get R/W errors any more. >(I'm no expert, but, 64 *bytes* of FIFO on the 2090?? Wouldn't 512 as >a minimum, make more sense? Could that FIFO chip be just popped out >and replaced by a bigger one?) I'd guess (being a software guy) that would be a MAJOR redesign, plus having to design a new FIFO chip (I believe it's a custom chip designed by MOS (which is part of C=)). The FIFO may also be part of a larger custom chip, I dunno. >Commodore! Yoo-hoo, Commodore! What do I do NOW? Help! Please don't yell. Remember, we do this unofficially, this is NOT C= Tech support speaking. I'm glad to help when I can, but please don't expect an answer automatically. -- Randell Jesup, Commodore Engineering {uunet|rutgers|allegra}!cbmvax!jesup
cjp@antique.UUCP (Charles Poirier) (07/01/88)
In article <4158@cbmvax.UUCP> jesup@cbmvax.UUCP (Randell Jesup) writes: >In article <2320@antique.UUCP> vax135!cjp (Charles Poirier) whines: >>I have the new hddisk.device, version 34.4, and I'm still whining. > >OK, here goes. The thing that is really killing you is that 4-plane screen. .... >With no real fast mem ($c00000 mem is as slow as chip), Actually I do have 2meg of fast mem, but I had not been using FastMemFirst so as to allow my VD0: to recover. Having just replaced VD0: with VDK:, and then turning on FastMemFirst, voila, my hard disk works fine! > The last thing that is happening is that we're not talking just a >Read() request, we're probably talking an EA IFF reader, which isn't blazing >itself. We-l-ll, I don't see how you would get bus contention on the file access due to the same process that is making the file request. It's either waiting for the next Read() to complete, OR it's processing the last one. Though in the case of Deluxe Paint, known to indulge in busy waiting in at least some circumstances, they may have found a way. Actually, for me it was failing not just for IFF but for any file access. For example, in a comm program called ACO which has the villainous 4-plane screen, it would open that screen and then be unable to read its phone listing file. >>(I'm no expert, but, 64 *bytes* of FIFO on the 2090?? >>Could that FIFO chip be just popped out and replaced by a bigger one?) > > I'd guess (being a software guy) that would be a MAJOR redesign, plus >having to design a new FIFO chip (I believe it's a custom chip designed by MOS >(which is part of C=)). The FIFO may also be part of a larger custom chip, I'm also a software guy -- the reason I asked is, theoretically the software interface to a FIFO doesn't know how big the FIFO is (as long as it is at least a minimum size to make the system work). You have only the front, the back, and full and empty signals. Since the FIFO is overflowing, I thought making it bigger might be a painless solution. Though quite possibly that wouldn't solve the real problem. I dunno, I was just trying to help. >>Commodore! Yoo-hoo, Commodore! What do I do NOW? Help! > Please don't yell. >Randell Jesup, Commodore Engineering {uunet|rutgers|allegra}!cbmvax!jesup Sorry, I feel better now. I did call some sort of customer support number at Commodore once. But between having to wait 30 minutes on the phone to speak to someone, and their being a relatively nontechnical phone jockey when I did get through, whose help consisted of relaying my problem to someone else and bringing back the advice that I should get hold of the hddisk.device that I was already using, I didn't feel that was a viable alternative. I just felt like my machine was treating me unfairly and I didn't know where else to turn. Everything I could think of about my setup was identical to that of people whose SCSI drives worked fine. I did forget about FastMemFirst though. Thank you Randell, DaveH, Andy, and all others who helped me through this. -- Charles Poirier (decvax,ucbvax,mcnc,attmail)!vax135!cjp "Docking complete... Docking complete... Docking complete..."
sneakers@heimat.UUCP (Dan "Sneakers" Schein) (07/02/88)
In Message <644@osupyr.mast.ohio-state.edu> vkr@osupyr.mast.ohio-state.edu (Vidhyanath K. Rao) writes: >In article <10174@oberon.USC.EDU>, papa@pollux.usc.edu (Marco Papa) writes: >> Commodore did post it on BIX in the public Amiga forum. They ARE responsive >> to these things. >In the first place BIX costs quite a bit of money. In fact, the last time >looked you had to suscribe to the damn magazine. I doubt that every user's >group has at least one suscriber to BIX. It seems to me Commodore must try >to be present on as many national BBS's as possible. I agree that out of the major commercial database services, Bix is one of the more costly. But hey what isnt expensive today? I dont think the cost of BIX alone can be used as a point of comparision, alot of other items (like the people answering the questions, the amout of time it takes to get an answer, ect) weigh heavly into making BIX either worth the money for you, or too expensive. Of course its highly unlikley that 1 person from each user group has access to BIX, but it is also highly likley that 1 person in each user group has access to one of the other commercial database services. It seems to me that you may have forgot that CBM is on BIX to support the Amiga Developer. Any support they give on UseNet, other commercial database(s), or a BBS is purely above and beyond the call of duty! Files (like HDdisk.device) spread from one service to the next very rapidly. Also PD disk series like the FISH disks (Hi Fred!) offer Amiga users a way to obtain software. So I feel CBM is doing a *SUPER* job on supporting the AMIGA and your comments just don't hold water. -- Dan "Sneakers" Schein {ihnp4|allegra|burdvax|rutgers}!cbmvax!heimat!sneakers Sneakers Computing 2455 McKinley Ave West Lawn PA 19609 BERKS AMIGA BBS 24 Hrs - 3/12/2400 Baud Disclaimer: Any opinions expressed are 40 Meg -=- 215/678-7691 those of Sneakers Computing Those who worked the hardest are the last to surrender. (Gary Ward)
egranthm@jackson.UUCP (Ewan Grantham) (07/03/88)
In article <2323@antique.UUCP>, cjp@antique.UUCP (Charles Poirier) writes: > > Actually I do have 2meg of fast mem, but I had not been using FastMemFirst > so as to allow my VD0: to recover. Having just replaced VD0: with VDK:, > and then turning on FastMemFirst, voila, my hard disk works fine! I have seen this suggestion to turn on FastMemFirst in two places today, but can't find such a utility anywhere on my 1.2 disks. AM I not looking in the right place, or is this a 1.3 utility? BTW, when WILL 1.3 be released? -- Ewan Grantham (601) 354-6454 ext.358 ...!uunet!nuchat!amyerg!egranthm or {pyramid or bellcore or tness..}!swbatl!jackson!egranthm I'm not responsible for my bosses, and vice-versa
jesup@cbmvax.UUCP (Randell Jesup) (07/03/88)
In article <2323@antique.UUCP> vax135!cjp (Charles Poirier) writes: >In article <4158@cbmvax.UUCP> jesup@cbmvax.UUCP (Randell Jesup) writes: >>With no real fast mem ($c00000 mem is as slow as chip), > >Actually I do have 2meg of fast mem, but I had not been using FastMemFirst >so as to allow my VD0: to recover. Having just replaced VD0: with VDK:, >and then turning on FastMemFirst, voila, my hard disk works fine! Glad it worked. That's the reason FastMemFirst is the first thing in all the startup-sequences. >> The last thing that is happening is that we're not talking just a >>Read() request, we're probably talking an EA IFF reader, which isn't blazing >>itself. > >We-l-ll, I don't see how you would get bus contention on the file >access due to the same process that is making the file request. It's >either waiting for the next Read() to complete, OR it's processing the >last one. Though in the case of Deluxe Paint, known to indulge in busy >waiting in at least some circumstances, they may have found a way. I just meant that even after you get a sector from the HD, the CPU has to decode it. With the code, data, and destination all in slow memory, combined with the fact that the EA IFF reader isn't really CPU efficient, that's extra overhead. >>>Commodore! Yoo-hoo, Commodore! What do I do NOW? Help! >> Please don't yell. >Sorry, I feel better now. >Everything >I could think of about my setup was identical to that of people whose >SCSI drives worked fine. I did forget about FastMemFirst though. It's often the simplest things that are hardest to find. If in doubt, go to a true plain vanilla WB to test. >Thank you Randell, DaveH, Andy, and all others who helped me through this. Glad I could help. Pass the word about FastMemFirst/hd34.4. -- Randell Jesup, Commodore Engineering {uunet|rutgers|allegra}!cbmvax!jesup
jesup@cbmvax.UUCP (Randell Jesup) (07/04/88)
In article <268@jackson.UUCP> egranthm@jackson.UUCP (Ewan Grantham) writes: >I have seen this suggestion to turn on FastMemFirst in two places today, >but can't find such a utility anywhere on my 1.2 disks. AM I not looking in >the right place, or is this a 1.3 utility? It's on the 1.2 A2000/A500 disks. A1000 owners don't need it, they don't have "slow fast memory" like the A2000/A500 do. >BTW, when WILL 1.3 be released? RSN :-) -- Randell Jesup, Commodore Engineering {uunet|rutgers|allegra}!cbmvax!jesup
vkr@osupyr.mast.ohio-state.edu (Vidhyanath K. Rao) (07/05/88)
In article <1196.AA1196@heimat>, sneakers@heimat.UUCP (Dan "Sneakers" Schein) writes: >[...] it is also highly likley that 1 person in each user group has access to > one of the other commercial database services. This whole thread started because somebody was trying to get hold of a device driver but didn't know where to look. It may be in comp.*.amiga but I don't know. > It seems to me that you may have forgot that CBM is on BIX to support the > Amiga Developer. Any support they give on UseNet, other commercial > database(s), or a BBS is purely above and beyond the call of duty! The whole discussion is about the support the non-developer gets. The parallel threads about dealer quality etc refelct this. I would like to (but not going to now: I will be away for several weeks.) survey the net as to how many are 'semi-sophisticated' users: cabable of doing minor fix-ups, but lack the time and the will to be a developer. The goodwill of these is essential if Amiga is to penetrate the educational market. I personally prefer the Amiga envoirment for TeX, Maple, TrueBasic etc. But as things stand, I have qulams about recommending Amiga for the university. The question is does anybody care if this is to change. I am sick of this discussion and personally don't care anymore. At least as long as my software collection stands still while I write-off my Amiga.
sneakers@heimat.UUCP (Dan "Sneakers" Schein) (07/06/88)
In Message <651@osupyr.mast.ohio-state.edu> vkr@osupyr.mast.ohio-state.edu (Vidhyanath K. Rao) writes: >In article <1196.AA1196@heimat>, sneakers@heimat.UUCP (Dan "Sneakers" Schein) writes: >>[...] it is also highly likley that 1 person in each user group has access to >> one of the other commercial database services. >This whole thread started because somebody was trying to get hold of a device >driver but didn't know where to look. It may be in comp.*.amiga but I don't >know. >> It seems to me that you may have forgot that CBM is on BIX to support the >> Amiga Developer. Any support they give on UseNet, other commercial >> database(s), or a BBS is purely above and beyond the call of duty! >The whole discussion is about the support the non-developer gets. The parallel >threads about dealer quality etc refelct this. I would like to (but not going >to now: I will be away for several weeks.) survey the net as to how many are >'semi-sophisticated' users: cabable of doing minor fix-ups, but lack the time >and the will to be a developer. The goodwill of these is essential if Amiga >is to penetrate the educational market. I personally prefer the Amiga >envoirment for TeX, Maple, TrueBasic etc. But as things stand, I have qulams >about recommending Amiga for the university. The question is does anybody >care if this is to change. I am sick of this discussion and personally don't >care anymore. At least as long as my software collection stands still while >I write-off my Amiga. The support that Amiga users/programmmers receive from CBM employees on UseNet, Plink, CIS, or any where else (besides BIX) - "Is above and beyond the call of duty". If you bought an Amiga and need the new hd.disk driver (as an example, it could be anything - like Transformer maybe), the proper procedure is to vist your local Amiga dealer. What... You buy mail order for better prices and they offer no support - ahhhhh what a shame. He who supports his dealer, is supported by his dealer. I don't want to give you the opinion that I am a hard ass on this subject, or that I simply don't care because that would be totaly wrong. Ill agree that some dealers are simply NFG, but some are good, and a good dealer is the best place to start when looking for updates. It will take a while longer for the dealer to get these new upgrade files then directly from Andy via UseNet, but thats the way it works. The wait should be well within an acceptable limit. Want to talk education - then you should be talking to CBM's education dept., no? CBM's education dept. is not on UseNet/UUCP mail but im sure if you have a question of valid suggestion - that a call to the proper person(s) will get you an answer. Please 'O' Please 'O' Please try to remember that the fine folks at CBM offer this support as a favor. They do it on their own time and not as part of their official CBM duties. I do feel very strongly that if you compare the amount of support of CBM employees on non-official networks (as far as CBM is concerned anyway) is by far one hell of alot more than IBM or Apple's employees give. I think that it might be time to remind you of an old saying "Give them an inch and they want a foot" - I wont say where your comments fit in, ill let you decide. -- Dan "Sneakers" Schein {ihnp4|allegra|burdvax|rutgers}!cbmvax!heimat!sneakers Sneakers Computing 2455 McKinley Ave West Lawn PA 19609 BERKS AMIGA BBS 24 Hrs - 3/12/2400 Baud Disclaimer: Any opinions expressed are 40 Meg -=- 215/678-7691 those of Sneakers Computing Those who worked the hardest are the last to surrender. (Gary Ward)