pete_ashdown@pedro.UUCP (Pete Ashdown) (06/16/88)
I have a couple of questions concerning "units sold" numbers. A. How many Amigas have been sold worldwide? I need a hard factual number. The only thing I have is "The Banditto" in "Roomers" stating something like 500,000 have been sold to date. This seems ridiculously low for the rate that 500's have been selling at. B. How many Apple //GS's have been sold worldwide? "A+" claims that 250,000 have been sold. A couple of Apple owners are telling me that 2,000,000 have been sold! Both of these numbers seem ridiculously HIGH for a computer that has roughly 100 commercial packages available for it, 18 months after it was originally released. Computer Shopper stated last fall that 10,000 //GS's have been sold. This seems more like it, but there is no way that my friends using Apples will believe that. If someone can mail me some hard facts, I would sure appreciate it. -- \ "I don't practice what I preach because I'm not the kind of person I'm / / (^: preaching to." - J.R. "Bob" Dobbs in Newsweek :^) \ \ "Like, don't mail me on pedro! I live on slack!" - Pete in a fit of rage / / [uunet!iconsys!caeco!pedro!slack!pete] OR TRY [pete@slack.uucp (I hope)] \
wayneck@tekig5.TEK.COM (Wayne Knapp) (06/22/88)
In article <350@pedro.UUCP>, pete_ashdown@pedro.UUCP (Pete Ashdown) writes: > > I have a couple of questions concerning "units sold" numbers. > > A. How many Amigas have been sold worldwide? I need a hard factual number. > The only thing I have is "The Banditto" in "Roomers" stating something like > 500,000 have been sold to date. This seems ridiculously low for the rate > that 500's have been selling at. From what I hear there are about 600,000 Amiga's worldwide with about a 50/50 split beteen Europe and the USA. What rate have you heard 500's are selling at. I can't see how it could be more than about 25,000 a month. My guess is arount 15,000 a month. Well the Atari ST was ahead at first it now looks like there are about the same number of Amiga's and Atari ST's out. Both machines are really popular in Europe. The monochrome 520ST being the cheapest 68000 system and the Amiga 500 seems to be doing a little better than the color ST's. Both markets are pretty small yet. I don't have any inside facts on the actual numbers, just what a lot of people think. > > B. How many Apple //GS's have been sold worldwide? "A+" claims that 250,000 > have been sold. A couple of Apple owners are telling me that 2,000,000 have > been sold! Both of these numbers seem ridiculously HIGH for a computer that > has roughly 100 commercial packages available for it, 18 months after it was > originally released. Computer Shopper stated last fall that 10,000 //GS's > have been sold. This seems more like it, but there is no way that my friends > using Apples will believe that. > 250,000 at 10,000 a month sounds right. Remenber that the //GS can run Apple // software. That means 1000's of programs not just a 100 or so. Also lots of //x owners upgrade to the //GS. The Apple // still seems alive and well. I think that there about 2,000,000 Apple //'s out there. Most are not //GS. I think the //GS will continue to do well as looks of // owners will upgrade to a //GS instead of an Amiga or Atari since they can keep thier old software. Now what I what to know is how many PC's out there with EGA or better graphics, and what is the grouth rate? A wide guess is 3,000,000 at 50,000 a month. Including clones. Also how about the Mac II? My hunch is that the current Amiga's and Atari's will never catch up to the PC and Mac market. Maybe some new machines might, but right now the PC market seem to be doing great, and the Mac has very, very strong WORLD WIDE interest! My wife is Japanese, and even though I have an Amiga 1000 and Atari ST she still wants a Mac. In fact before coming over here the Mac was the only computer she knew that she liked, and from last count there were maybe 6 Amiga's in Japan all own by gaigin's. My wife say's that IBM, Apple and even Atari are well know in Japan, but Amiga is completly unknow. She was teaching English and said even the Junior high kids talk about Apple. She never heard of Amiga though until I showed her mine. See the problem? If the Amiga is going to survive my bet is that it will be Amiga 2000 and better machines. The Amiga 500 and Atari ST both have the same problem of being not quite enough and a little hard to expend. (Hard means $$$) And neither company has Apple's marketing. Everyone has heard of Apple and IBM, can't say that for anyone else. Just maybe there is hope for the Amiga 500 though. What is you could get every C64 owner to upgrade or even 1/5 of them. That would really push up sells of the 500. If there were 2,000,000 plus 500's out there the Amiga market would really start to fly. It might even be able to beat the Mac market. Wayne Knapp
papa@pollux.usc.edu (Marco Papa) (06/22/88)
In article <2899@tekig5.TEK.COM> wayneck@tekig5.TEK.COM (Wayne Knapp) writes: >250,000 at 10,000 a month sounds right. Remenber that the //GS can run Apple >// software. That means 1000's of programs not just a 100 or so. Also lots of ^^^ You are close on most other numbers but very far from the truth on this one. The Amiga had 100 programs within the first year of introduction. Now that number is pretty close to 1000 in the US, and well over one thousand counting the software that is produced in Europe. -- Marco Papa 'Doc' -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= uucp:...!pollux!papa BIX:papa ARPAnet:pollux!papa@oberon.usc.edu "There's Alpha, Beta, Gamma and Diga!" -- Leo Schwab [quoting Rick Unland] -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
ins_adjb@jhunix.HCF.JHU.EDU (Daniel Jay Barrett) (06/22/88)
In article <350@pedro.UUCP> pete_ashdown@pedro.UUCP (Pete Ashdown) writes: >A. How many Amigas have been sold worldwide? I need a hard factual number. The April INFO MAGAZINE quotes Commodore about "units sold". The number is 600,000 units shipped. -- Dan Barrett ins_adjb@jhunix.UUCP barrett@cs.jhu.edu
doug-merritt@cup.portal.com (06/23/88)
Wayne Knapp writes: >My wife is Japanese, and even though I have an Amiga 1000 and Atari ST she >still wants a Mac. In fact before coming over here the Mac was the only >computer she knew that she liked, and from last count there were maybe 6 >Amiga's in Japan all own by gaigin's. My wife say's that IBM, Apple and >even Atari are well know in Japan, but Amiga is completly unknow. One big reason the Mac is well known is that it has excellent support for Japanese. Also, of course it helps that it's been around long enough for word to get out about it. My friend in Tokyo (who owns a Mac for music applications) says that Atari has always had good name recognition, since "atari" is a japanese word, after all, but that the only ST's he sees there are a few used for music. No surprise, Atari has been pretty successful at marketing the ST for music applications. Still, he says that the Mac is preferred over the ST for this. Lots of Macs, very few Atari's. Lack of success in penetrating various computer niche markets in Japan is more the rule than the exception. Japan makes zillions of their own brands. For Atari *and* IBM (and Cray, for that matter), it's just not a sizeable market, even though they've got name recognition. Apple gets a reasonable number of Macs in there because of their superb Japanese language support (there's a separate Japanese *model* of the Mac sold there. Keyboard differences, translated messages, etc). Doug -- Doug Merritt ucbvax!sun.com!cup.portal.com!doug-merritt or ucbvax!eris!doug (doug@eris.berkeley.edu) or ucbvax!unisoft!certes!doug
daveh@cbmvax.UUCP (Dave Haynie) (06/29/88)
in article <2899@tekig5.TEK.COM>, wayneck@tekig5.TEK.COM (Wayne Knapp) says: > Keywords: Amiga sales, //GS sales > In article <350@pedro.UUCP>, pete_ashdown@pedro.UUCP (Pete Ashdown) writes: > My hunch is that the current Amiga's and Atari's will never catch up to the > PC and Mac market. I expect there are somewhere around 12 million PC[lone] machines. I wouldn't expect Amiga, Atari, Mac, or even C64/C128 (currently in second place) to catch up, given the likely PC market over the next few decades. Just goes to show you, you really can fool most of the people most of the time, if you're big enough. > Maybe some new machines might, but right now the PC market > seem to be doing great, and the Mac has very, very strong WORLD WIDE interest! When I was last in Japan, about all you saw anywhere were Japanese PC[lones]. In all of Aki-Habara, no C64s, no Ataris, one place had a lone Mac. Our Commodore people there couldn't get any C64 software in Japan. Game software was mainly for the Nintendo "Family Computer", which is basically the Nintendo video game that's in the states these days. IBM was trying really hard, and had one or two Japan-only versions of their PC (the one I saw came with 3.5" disks, this back in '85 or so). I expect Macs are really catching up by now, just because they can handle Kanji and other Japansese character sets better than PCs. And because Apple's put the effort into making software really work with these sets. For the same reason, last I was in Taiwan, it really looked like Macs were making a dent in the PC market, at least by all outward appearances. > If the Amiga is going to survive my bet is that it will be Amiga 2000 and > better machines. The Amiga 500 and Atari ST both have the same problem of > being not quite enough and a little hard to expend. (Hard means $$$) And > neither company has Apple's marketing. Everyone has heard of Apple and > IBM, can't say that for anyone else. A recent poll in West Germany, something on the order of "When you think of computers, who comes to mind", had the name "Commodore" come out on top. On the other hand, the 68000 based Mac costs more than a low-end Sun in West Germany, and is really only gaining ground in France (possibly helped by it's built-in monitor -- France uses Secam instead of PAL video). Of course, you'll see the Commodore name everywhere in Germany, too. Anyone who watches European soccer will probably notice this. > Wayne Knapp -- Dave Haynie "The 32 Bit Guy" Commodore-Amiga "The Crew That Never Rests" {ihnp4|uunet|rutgers}!cbmvax!daveh PLINK: D-DAVE H BIX: hazy "I can't relax, 'cause I'm a Boinger!"
ugdill@sunybcs.UUCP (Peter Dill) (07/01/88)
In article <4142@cbmvax.UUCP> daveh@cbmvax.UUCP (Dave Haynie) writes: >in article <2899@tekig5.TEK.COM>, wayneck@tekig5.TEK.COM (Wayne Knapp) says: >> If the Amiga is going to survive my bet is that it will be Amiga 2000 and >> better machines. The Amiga 500 and Atari ST both have the same problem of >> being not quite enough and a little hard to expend. (Hard means $$$) And >> neither company has Apple's marketing. Everyone has heard of Apple and >> IBM, can't say that for anyone else. > >A recent poll in West Germany, something on the order of "When you think of >computers, who comes to mind", had the name "Commodore" come out on top. On >the other hand, the 68000 based Mac costs more than a low-end Sun in West Germany, >and is really only gaining ground in France (possibly helped by it's built-in >monitor -- France uses Secam instead of PAL video). Of course, you'll see the >Commodore name everywhere in Germany, too. Anyone who watches European soccer >will probably notice this. While I havn't seen any West German ads I'd bet that they were done by a totally different ad company than did the US ones if they have such a high impact. Improved market perception of the Amiga will depend to a large part on the campains for the 2500at and ux configurations so to insure their quality how a "Marketing"esque Working Group? I know that the intention of the Working Groups was to explore software and hardware concepts, but it is also to promote the Amiga so a marketing Working Group wouldn't be such a perversion. A group of tech types would be much more able to design ads that appeal to tech type buyers than Ad company types who probally have Macs anyway. In addition to the improved quality, more ad concepts could be worked into prototypes for Commodore Marketing to chose from . Also lower concept devolp- ment costs could mean greater saturation. Back in November when the 500/2000 came out the was a flury of ad ideas on the net. Some of these were B- to B ideas- perhapse they could be refined to A-/A presentations in a Working Group. If so they could go a long way towards selling Commodore's new products and making us all happy campers. &( Peter Dill) == v114nj32@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu | "As a rule of course, we just ugdill@joey.cs.buffalo.edu |don't care ." ..!{nike|watmath,alegra,decvax}!sunybcs!ugdill|- Logical Design of Digital | Circuits | C.M.Reeves --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
mp1u+@andrew.cmu.edu (Michael Portuesi) (07/06/88)
> *Excerpts from ext.nn.comp.sys.amiga: 30-Jun-88 Re: "Units sold" numbers?* > *Peter Dill@sunybcs.UUCP (2689)* > While I havn't seen any West German ads I'd bet that they were done by a > totally different ad company than did the US ones if they have such a high > impact. Probably. But Commodore's popularity in West Germany could be due to totally different factors, for example the fact that Macs cost as much as workstations there. > A group of tech types would be much more able to design ads that > appeal to tech type buyers than Ad company types who probally have Macs > anyway. I disagree. I don't think a group of techies would do as well at reaching a computer-novice public as well as a good ad agency with people actually trained to do this sort of stuff. To suggest that we can do a better job of designing advertisements than those who spend their lives doing it is pretty presumptuous and underestimates the difficulties involved in producing effective advertising. Apple manages to sell lots of Macintoshes, largely due to their name recognition and effective advertising and marketing. They didn't get together a batch of Mac weenies to design those ads; they paid big bucks for an outside ad agency to do them. --M Michael Portuesi / Information Technology Center / Carnegie Mellon University ARPA/UUCP: mp1u+@andrew.cmu.edu BITNET: rainwalker@drycas "if you ain't ill it'll fix your car"
jesup@cbmvax.UUCP (Randell Jesup) (07/07/88)
In article <IWoYI-y00Vs4E=gEVN@andrew.cmu.edu> mp1u+@andrew.cmu.edu (Michael Portuesi) writes: >> A group of tech types would be much more able to design ads that >> appeal to tech type buyers than Ad company types who probally have Macs >> anyway. > >I disagree. I don't think a group of techies would do as well at reaching a >computer-novice public as well as a good ad agency with people actually trained >to do this sort of stuff. To suggest that we can do a better job of designing >advertisements than those who spend their lives doing it is pretty presumptuous >and underestimates the difficulties involved in producing effective advertising. The problem with the advertising types is that a lot of them can't tell the difference between a computer and a toaster. If they're very, very good, then they could probably advertise it well. Unfortunately, most of them aren't that good, and do a poor job. I've seen some really horrible ads/promotional material out of some pretty big-name agencies (some of whom also work for C=). I've also seen some very good stuff (the apple ads, the old IBM (chaplin) ads, the old C= "your kid won't go to..." ads - which was annoying to techies, but well done for the avg. public.) The best possible thing is a USER who is also an advertising guy. A true techie runs the risk of producing ads that only interest techies. -- Randell Jesup, Commodore Engineering {uunet|rutgers|allegra}!cbmvax!jesup