rokicki@polya.Stanford.EDU (Tomas G. Rokicki) (06/26/88)
In order for the Amiga to compete in the current marketplace, the
machine should have at *least* the following features:
* 4096 color registers, 16 million colors
* 2048x2048 resolution, non-interlaced, on a standard TV
* 12 blitters, one for each of 12 planes
* 88000 CPU, w/ 68020 emulation as fast as the 68020
* Matrix and clipping hardware built in
* 44Khz sampling rate, 16-bit DAC's on four channels
* Each channel with AM, FM synthesis and enveloping
* 16M memory standard, expandable to 4G
* Built-in ST506, SCSI, EDSI, fast HPIB interfaces
* At least four serial ports, capable of 2Mbaud
* Built-in Ethernet port
* A price under $1000
Without these features, the machine simply cannot be taken
seriously as a home computer; they are absolutely essential to
emulate a vt100 properly, let alone run video games.
--
/-- Tomas Rokicki /// Box 2081 Stanford, CA 94309
/ o Radical Eye Software /// (TAMU EE '85) (415) 326-5312
\ / | . . . or I \\\///Join CCFFAALW---Concerned Citzens
V | won't get dressed \XX/Fighting For An Acronym-Less Worldpapa@pollux.usc.edu (Marco Papa) (06/26/88)
In article <3128@polya.Stanford.EDU| rokicki@polya.Stanford.EDU (Tomas G. Rokicki) writes: |In order for the Amiga to compete in the current marketplace, the |machine should have at *least* the following features: | * 4096 color registers, 16 million colors This is reasonable. Actually even 256 out of 4096 (today) would be good. By the time new chips are developed a 2048-entry LUT and 16M colors is probably the minumum. Competitors are catching up. | * 2048x2048 resolution, non-interlaced, on a standard TV NO WAY. Max resolutions, including overscan, are as follows: NTSC RS-170A 756x486 PAL CCIR-624 738x576 Both are interlaced. HDTV is another story, but until the Japanese and European agree on a standard, we'll have to wait. These resolutions should ALWAYS be available, since this is the very reason the Amiga signal can be dumped to videotape or fed to a TV studio input for broadcast. What I want is a choice of more non-interlaced resolutions. Like: 32 bits/pixel 16 bit/pixel 8 bits/pixel ------------- ------------ ------------ 1024x1024 2048x1024 4096x1024 512x2048 1024x2048 2048x2048 If you own a VISTA board from TrueVision, these might look familiar. I urge C-A to take a look at the VISTA board. That is what the Amiga SHOULD have had in the first place. But then the VISTA board is $5995. This is definitely what the Amiga MUST be within 1-2 years to still be competitive with decreasing video board prices. Most of them are TMS 34010 based products, and the price of this chip is decreasing. | * 12 blitters, one for each of 12 planes | * 88000 CPU, w/ 68020 emulation as fast as the 68020 [ various "inexpensive" :-) items deleted] | * A price under $1000 | |Without these features, the machine simply cannot be taken |seriously as a home computer; they are absolutely essential to ^^^^ |emulate a vt100 properly, let alone run video games. ^^^^^ ^^^^^ You must be kidding, right? But then I see no :-) -- Marco Papa 'Doc' -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= uucp:...!pollux!papa BIX:papa ARPAnet:pollux!papa@oberon.usc.edu "There's Alpha, Beta, Gamma and Diga!" -- Leo Schwab [quoting Rick Unland] -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
daveb@cbmvax.UUCP (Dave Berezowski) (06/27/88)
In article <3128@polya.Stanford.EDU> rokicki@polya.Stanford.EDU (Tomas G. Rokicki) writes: >In order for the Amiga to compete in the current marketplace, the >machine should have at *least* the following features: > > * 4096 color registers, 16 million colors > * 2048x2048 resolution, non-interlaced, on a standard TV > * 12 blitters, one for each of 12 planes > * 88000 CPU, w/ 68020 emulation as fast as the 68020 > * Matrix and clipping hardware built in > * 44Khz sampling rate, 16-bit DAC's on four channels > * Each channel with AM, FM synthesis and enveloping > * 16M memory standard, expandable to 4G > * Built-in ST506, SCSI, EDSI, fast HPIB interfaces > * At least four serial ports, capable of 2Mbaud > * Built-in Ethernet port > * A price under $1000 > >Without these features, the machine simply cannot be taken >seriously as a home computer; they are absolutely essential to >emulate a vt100 properly, let alone run video games. >-- > /-- Tomas Rokicki /// Box 2081 Stanford, CA 94309 > / o Radical Eye Software /// (TAMU EE '85) (415) 326-5312 >\ / | . . . or I \\\///Join CCFFAALW---Concerned Citzens > V | won't get dressed \XX/Fighting For An Acronym-Less World Tom, I'm going to have to assume that you are joking. If you compare the features of the current A2000 with your dream machine and then consider that the A2000 lists for $2000 you'd realize that you couldn't even begin to build your ultimate Amiga any where near a suggested list of $1000; cost maybe. BTW, I like your machine BUT I'd changed two things. First I'd ship it with a fully formatted/auto booting hard disk drive and second I'd design it around the 68030. Regards, David Berezowski Disclaimer: Although I work for CBM-Amiga, these are my own views and not those of my employer.
smaug@eneevax.UUCP (Kurt J. Lidl) (06/27/88)
In article <3128@polya.Stanford.EDU> rokicki@polya.Stanford.EDU (Tomas G. Rokicki) writes:
:In order for the Amiga to compete in the current marketplace, the
:machine should have at *least* the following features:
:
: * 4096 color registers, 16 million colors
: * 2048x2048 resolution, non-interlaced, on a standard TV
: * 12 blitters, one for each of 12 planes
: * 88000 CPU, w/ 68020 emulation as fast as the 68020
: * Matrix and clipping hardware built in
: * 44Khz sampling rate, 16-bit DAC's on four channels
: * Each channel with AM, FM synthesis and enveloping
: * 16M memory standard, expandable to 4G
: * Built-in ST506, SCSI, EDSI, fast HPIB interfaces
: * At least four serial ports, capable of 2Mbaud
: * Built-in Ethernet port
: * A price under $1000
Gasp! You forgot the MOST IMPORTANT one! A machine just CANNOT
be taken seriously without a 4 (or more) button mouse. Just
what kind of cruel hoax were you pulling anyhow?
:Without these features, the machine simply cannot be taken
:seriously as a home computer; they are absolutely essential to
:emulate a vt100 properly, let alone run video games.
:--
: /-- Tomas Rokicki /// Box 2081 Stanford, CA 94309
--
==================================================================
== Kurt J. Lidl (smaug@eneevax.umd.edu) (301)454-6849 ==
== UUCP: [seismo,allegra]!umcp-cs!eneevax!smaug ==
========"It's after 3am, no point in going to sleep now..."=======wayneck@tekig5.TEK.COM (Wayne Knapp) (06/28/88)
In article <3128@polya.Stanford.EDU>, rokicki@polya.Stanford.EDU (Tomas G. Rokicki) writes: > In order for the Amiga to compete in the current marketplace, the > machine should have at *least* the following features: > Your wish list is nice but many not reasonable for $1000. A few mods may really help reduce the price and make it easier to build. > * 4096 color registers, 16 million colors How about 256 colors, with the current copper this would be very flexible and a big gain over the current 32 color limit. > * 2048x2048 resolution, non-interlaced, on a standard TV This is simply crazy. You are just asking too much no way are you going to get this kind of resoultion on a startand TV. You want 2048x2048x12 bit planes -- that's 6 megs just for one frame buffer. Even in a few years memory will still problaby cost at least $50/meg (It is now closer to $200). Plus this is really high speed memory so I bet you are talking over $150/meg with vrams 3 years from now. What if you just went for full high definition TV instead. In 3 years I bet a lot of people will have the new high definition TV's and you could get a great display at say 1200x1100 (enough for overscan) x 8 bit planes would be less than 1.5 megs per frame buffer. Much cheaper and would that less high speed hardware to support it too! > * 12 blitters, one for each of 12 planes > * 88000 CPU, w/ 68020 emulation as fast as the 68020 > * Matrix and clipping hardware built in Instead of all that hardware put the money in to one solid CPU with cashe memory and MMU support. Let it run as fast as possible and build in a interface for adding support processors if needed. A processor is more flexible than blitters or matrix math hardware. Things really needed for graphics are: 1) High memory bus bandwidth - often moving things in and out of memory is the number one bottleneck. 2) High ratio of memory size to frame buffer size. The more memory you have the more great tricks you can pull. 3) Very fast integer math, floating point is great but often fixed point math is as fast on a CPU as floating point on a special hardware. Also this gives fast logical operations, very useful. 4) A large basic word size. I really think that 32 bits is minimum for a 1K x 1K display, if you plan on using fix point math. Remember not all graphics are 3D and what you really want is a system that is all around great not just good at some things. > * 44Khz sampling rate, 16-bit DAC's on four channels > * Each channel with AM, FM synthesis and enveloping Yes I like your ideas here! > * 16M memory standard, expandable to 4G Just too expensive. Remember 16M will costs over $3000 today. When the 4 meg chips come out it will may drop to around $800 but no way will 16 megs get under $100 for at least a few years. I would say 4Megs stock with as large of an address spaces as possible. > * Built-in ST506, SCSI, EDSI, fast HPIB interfaces > * At least four serial ports, capable of 2Mbaud > * Built-in Ethernet port Come on, this isn't reasonable. SCSI and a couple 422 serial ports would be more than enough for most people at home. Although there should be a means of adding cards to get more I/O stuff. Anyway who in ther right mind would mess with HPIB without getting paid for it? > * A price under $1000 I think that if someone could do the following for under $1000 in the next couple of years I be shocked: * fast 32 bit CPU with MMU and cashe interface. * expansion interface for additional CPU and floating point support * 4 megs standard easily expanable up to 64 megs * 1200 x 1100 x 8 bit planes with High definition TV output. Large color choice * great sound 16-bit DAC's at 44Khz with 4 channels. * SCSI and 422 serial ports standard others easy to add That would be one amazing system for $1000, and would also be a great leap forward. Wayne Knapp
wayneck@tekig5.TEK.COM (Wayne Knapp) (06/28/88)
In article <10134@oberon.USC.EDU>, papa@pollux.usc.edu (Marco Papa) writes:
: What I want is a choice of more non-interlaced resolutions. Like:
:
: 32 bits/pixel 16 bit/pixel 8 bits/pixel
: ------------- ------------ ------------
: 1024x1024 2048x1024 4096x1024
: 512x2048 1024x2048 2048x2048
:
The above sceen resolutions requires 4 megabytes of *fast* memory. Do you
really think you are going to get this at a cheap price in the next couple
of years? Plus when the resolutions are so high the graphics are really
going to slow down, more memory means more work to change an image. I
really think that High Definition TV should be the next milestone for
home computers. That has a chance of being really nice performance for a
reasonable price. Besides who really needs that much resolution for
home use? Sure it would be nice, but needed for a great machine, I just
don't think so.
Wayne Knappnsw@cord.UUCP (N Weinstock) (06/28/88)
In article <3128@polya.Stanford.EDU>, rokicki@polya.Stanford.EDU (Tomas G. Rokicki) wrote a wish list for a spectacular new Amiga to be "under $1000". Then, several people have commented that some of Tom's ideas are not feasible on a $1000 machine. To wit (or is that "whit"?): Tom's suggestion: >> * 2048x2048 resolution, non-interlaced, on a standard TV The reply: >This is simply crazy. You are just asking too much no way are you going to >get this kind of resoultion on a startand TV. You want 2048x2048x12 bit planes Well, let's see. Mr. Rokicki wants 2048x2048 on a standard TV. Well, there are two possibilities. One, he has lost his mind. This I tend to doubt. The second possibility, however, seems quite likely: :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) (These are smileys, folks.) I T W A S A J O K E! Thank you, I feel much better now. .- -- .. --. .- .-. ..- .-.. . ... .- -- .. --. .- .-. ..- .-.. . ... | Neil Weinstock | ihnp4!cord!nsw | "I think my cerebellum just | | AT&T Bell Labs | nsw@cord.att.com | fused." - Calvin | .- -- .. --. .- .-. ..- .-.. . ... .- -- .. --. .- .-. ..- .-.. . ...
acphssrw@csuna.UUCP (Stephen R. Walton) (06/29/88)
In articles <123456@suffer.fools.COM> many@suffer.fools.COM (Straight
Man) responds to article <3128@polya.Stanford.EDU>, by
rokicki@polya.Stanford.EDU (Tomas G. Rokicki), in which that worthy
opines that the next Amiga should be more powerful than a Sun-4 and
sell for under $1000.
I've finally hit "u" at "nnn unread messages in comp.sys.amiga--read
now? [npq]".
Stephen Walton, representing myself swalton@solar.stanford.edu
Cal State, Northridge rckg01m@calstate.BITNETvkr@osupyr.mast.ohio-state.edu (Vidhyanath K. Rao) (06/30/88)
The summary says it all
kent@xanth.cs.odu.edu (Kent Paul Dolan) (06/30/88)
In article <1566@eneevax.UUCP> smaug@eneevax.umd.edu.UUCP (Kurt J. Lidl) writes: >In article <3128@polya.Stanford.EDU> rokicki@polya.Stanford.EDU (Tomas G. Rokicki) writes: >:In order for the Amiga to compete in the current marketplace, the >:machine should have at *least* the following features: >: >: * 4096 color registers, 16 million colors >: * 2048x2048 resolution, non-interlaced, on a standard TV >: * 12 blitters, one for each of 12 planes >: * 88000 CPU, w/ 68020 emulation as fast as the 68020 >: * Matrix and clipping hardware built in >: * 44Khz sampling rate, 16-bit DAC's on four channels >: * Each channel with AM, FM synthesis and enveloping >: * 16M memory standard, expandable to 4G >: * Built-in ST506, SCSI, EDSI, fast HPIB interfaces >: * At least four serial ports, capable of 2Mbaud >: * Built-in Ethernet port >: * A price under $1000 > >Gasp! You forgot the MOST IMPORTANT one! A machine just CANNOT >be taken seriously without a 4 (or more) button mouse. Just >what kind of cruel hoax were you pulling anyhow? > >:Without these features, the machine simply cannot be taken >:seriously as a home computer; they are absolutely essential to >:emulate a vt100 properly, let alone run video games. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ if that's not a smiley face (as I sit here using vt100 release 2.4 in perfect happiness at being 4 or 5 releases behind; this one has never shown _me_ any bugs or missing features) then I don't know what one is. >:-- >: /-- Tomas Rokicki /// Box 2081 Stanford, CA 94309 > >-- >================================================================== >== Kurt J. Lidl (smaug@eneevax.umd.edu) (301)454-6849 == >== UUCP: [seismo,allegra]!umcp-cs!eneevax!smaug == >========"It's after 3am, no point in going to sleep now..."======= For just a couple of extra wires, surely not more than 5 cents each in the retail price, you could just as well go right to the hex keypad built into the mouse, and really meet the crucial needs of the home user. Hmmm. While I'm on the subject, it's really inconvenient having to unplug the mouse all the time to put in that second joystick. How about five mouseports, so my friends can play M.U.L.E. in one window while I mouse around editing the Great American Slug Cookbook in another; a real showcase for multitasking; should sell millions more Amigas that way! What do you say, Commodore Marketing? I'll even put a plug for the Amiga 6666 in my book, if you just give me a way to get these twits occupied so they don't bother me while I'm creating recipes. Kent, the man from xanth. (Above article may be liberally sprinkled with industrial strength smileys as appropriate.)
ugdill@sunybcs.UUCP (Peter Dill) (07/01/88)
>(Tomas G. Rokicki) writes: >In order for the Amiga to compete in the current marketplace, the >machine should have at *least* the following features: > > * 4096 color registers, 16 million colors > * 2048x2048 resolution, non-interlaced, on a standard TV > * 12 blitters, one for each of 12 planes > * 88000 CPU, w/ 68020 emulation as fast as the 68020 > * Matrix and clipping hardware built in > * 44Khz sampling rate, 16-bit DAC's on four channels > * Each channel with AM, FM synthesis and enveloping > * 16M memory standard, expandable to 4G > * Built-in ST506, SCSI, EDSI, fast HPIB interfaces > * At least four serial ports, capable of 2Mbaud > * Built-in Ethernet port > * A price under $1000 I don't know if this can be implemented in the current bus design, but how about a great big, fat, bourgeois custom cache/mmu chip|s that was hit by the cpu and all coprocessors before going to memory. This would solve the problem of cache coherency for the custom chips, increase the appearent speed of all the chips (hopefully economically) and give us another chip to name. I like either "Chastity" or "Prudence". And VM would be nice too. &( Peter Dill) == v114nj32@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu | "As a rule of course, we just ugdill@joey.cs.buffalo.edu |don't care ." ..!{nike|watmath,alegra,decvax}!sunybcs!ugdill|- Logical Design of Digital | Circuits | C.M.Reeves --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
tws@beach.cis.ufl.edu (Thomas Sarver) (07/02/88)
In article <10134@oberon.USC.EDU> papa@pollux.usc.edu (Marco Papa) writes: |In article <3128@polya.Stanford.EDU| rokicki@polya.Stanford.EDU (Tomas G. Rokicki) writes: ||In order for the Amiga to compete in the current marketplace, the ||machine should have at *least* the following features: || * 4096 color registers, 16 million colors | |This is reasonable. Actually even 256 out of 4096 (today) would be good. |By the time new chips are developed a 2048-entry LUT and 16M colors |is probably the minumum. Competitors are catching up. | || * 2048x2048 resolution, non-interlaced, on a standard TV | |NO WAY. Max resolutions, including overscan, are as follows: | |NTSC RS-170A 756x486 |PAL CCIR-624 738x576 | | [Various serious replies to jovial remarks] | |You must be kidding, right? But then I see no :-) | |-- Marco Papa 'Doc' Come on folks, don't wait for the :-> to tip you off. Most of us realized that these were ramblings of a madman. The moral of the story is "We all would like a more powerful computer." The reality is that manufacturers have to weigh price and marketability against gee-whiz-bang technology. Let's face it: Technology doesn't make it to the consumer until at least 1.5 years later. Previous to that its just a board sitting in somebody's computer with $500 of interface hardware. OK? Next time read between the lines. I know that on a VT100 you have to set it to 132 col mode to do this, but it's worth the effort :-> ^^^^ (NO FLAMES, PLEASE <Disclaimer>) +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ But hey, its the best country in the world! Thomas W. Sarver "The complexity of a system is proportional to the factorial of its atoms. One can only hope to minimize the complexity of the micro-system in which one finds oneself." -TWS Addendum: "... or migrate to a less complex micro-system."
dj@dorsai.cognet.ucla.edu (David J. Wells) (07/06/88)
In article <3128@polya.Stanford.EDU> rokicki@polya.Stanford.EDU (Tomas G. Rokicki) writes: >In order for the Amiga to compete in the current marketplace, the >machine should have at *least* the following features: > <wish list deleted> > >Without these features, the machine simply cannot be taken >seriously as a home computer; they are absolutely essential to >emulate a vt100 properly, let alone run video games. I would exchange fiber optic networking for the Ethernet (optional FO - Enet converter). Also, I would add floating point hardware, hardware FFT, 256M bubble RAM (available 1990 or so), and multi-ported CHIP RAM. As for color, I want 24 bits RGB and 8 bits lookup. Did I forget anything? *grin* Oh yes, speech recognition hardware (neural net chip?) and 3D graphics. I suppose the I could go on... and of course it must be a laptop! dj wells ----- David J Wells w 213/825-6850
cg@myrias.UUCP (Chris Gray) (07/08/88)
Here's a suggestion for a very simple new mode in the custom chips. Let me
just summarize the current HAM mode: (hopefully correctly!)
- each pixel has 6 bits
- only works in lo-res (320 bits horiz) mode, due to bus bandwidth
- the low-order 4 bits are interpreted according to the high order 2
bits as follows:
hi-2-bits lo-4-bits
00 select one of lower 16 colour table registers
01 replace R component of colour of previous pixel
10 " G "
11 " B "
I've most likely got the hi-2-bits values mixed up, but you get the idea.
What I would like to see is a HAM mode that would work with 2, 3, 4, and 5
bit deep displays as follows: (example for 5 bits/pixel)
5-bits
00000 - use same colour as previous pixel
xxxxx - select one of lower 32 colour table registers
(the 0th entry is not accessible, but is still used
as the border colour)
The same pattern holds for other depths - all bits zero means use the same
colour as the horizontally previous pixel.
What could you do with this? Well, consider how quickly you can animate a
line drawing. Change the lines to 5 bits deep (slows it down some), and draw
them in the colour that is desired for the polygon to their right. Voila! We
have an image in full colour! The detail and animation speed is limited only
by how fast the bit planes can be filled to all 0's (use the blitter's clear
mode) and small lines can be drawn on it.
The blitter's area fill mode can be used to fake this (going right-to-left
instead of left-to-right, and only drawing a line in a plane if that bit in
the colour number changes across that polygon border). I'm planning on
trying it out. Has anyone done this? How fast can I make it go?
(I want to use it to do the 3-D maze-walk mode in my Explore system.)
--
Chris Gray Myrias Research, Edmonton +1 403 428 1616
{uunet!mnetor,ubc-vision,watmath,vax135}!alberta!myrias!cgu-jmolse%sunset.utah.edu@utah-gr.UUCP (John M. Olsen) (07/08/88)
In article <613@myrias.UUCP> cg@myrias.UUCP (Chris Gray) writes: >Here's a suggestion for a very simple new mode in the custom chips. > [He describes current HAM] >What I would like to see is a HAM mode that would work with 2, 3, 4, and 5 >bit deep displays as follows: (example for 5 bits/pixel) > > 5-bits > 00000 - use same colour as previous pixel > xxxxx - select one of lower 32 colour table registers > (the 0th entry is not accessible, but is still used > as the border colour) > >The same pattern holds for other depths - all bits zero means use the same >colour as the horizontally previous pixel. Maybe HAM is a bad name for this, since it isn't really holding and modifying. How about something stupid like zero fill. ZF mode. Hmmm... This is really a slick idea. Access to the full 32 color registers (or however many your screen uses), and filled polygons as fast as just drawing a polygon outline. It would take a bit of care to make the borders of the polygons show up in the right places, but you also need to be careful with how you use things like the current HAM mode. >Chris Gray Myrias Research, Edmonton +1 403 428 1616 > {uunet!mnetor,ubc-vision,watmath,vax135}!alberta!myrias!cg And speaking of HAM: I was just thinking about a 3 plane HAM mode that Aaron Avery and I discovered. What you do is build a screen by hand, and assign the low 4 plane pointers all to the same plane, and have the top two planes just like normal HAM. This trick allows you to get up to 46 colors out of 3 bit planes. Since the first four bits of any color are always 0000 or 1111 depending on what you stick into the low plane, you can only use color registers 0 and 15. This also makes it so you can only modify the R, G or B to be full on or off. Still, 46 colors for 3 bit planes is not all that bad. If you think of lower case rgb as modifying to 0 and RGB as modifying to 15, then the color combinations possible are: base modified c0 r g b R G B rg rb rG rB gb gB Rg Rb RG RB Gb GB c15 r g b R G B rg rb rG rB gb gB Rg Rb RG RB Gb GB either rgb rgB rGb Rgb rGB RgB RGb RGB Any comments? Anybody warped enough to try it and see how it looks? /| | /||| /\| | John M. Olsen, 1547 Jamestown Drive | quote \|()|\|\_ |||. \/|/)@|\_ | Salt Lake City, UT 84121-2051 | from | u-jmolse%ug@cs.utah.edu or ...!utah-cs!utah-ug!u-jmolse | D. Merritt "(((c)<' ')?("^"[1]=(c)+'@',""[-2]):(((c)>'~')?"^?":(""[0]=(c),""[-1])))"
daveh@cbmvax.UUCP (Dave Haynie) (07/09/88)
in article <613@myrias.UUCP>, cg@myrias.UUCP (Chris Gray) says: > Keywords: Chips HAM animation > Summary: modified HAM allows on-the-fly area fills > What I would like to see is a HAM mode that would work with 2, 3, 4, and 5 > bit deep displays as follows: (example for 5 bits/pixel) > 5-bits > 00000 - use same colour as previous pixel > xxxxx - select one of lower 32 colour table registers > (the 0th entry is not accessible, but is still used > as the border colour) > The same pattern holds for other depths - all bits zero means use the same > colour as the horizontally previous pixel. I seem to recall the Apple II Gee-Wiz having a similar mode. I don't recall if the details are the same, but the basic gist of it is that you draw lines and get free area filling from the colored pixel on to the end of that line, or the next colored pixel, whichever comes first. The thing I liked about it is that your area filling is just a color lookup table trick, like HAM, not a real area fill. At least as long as you stick to line drawing and are happy with everything filled in. When you get to the point of needing a large number of per-line transitions, this starts to loose. Maybe the Apple II community would be a good test case of whether this is really useful or not? > Chris Gray Myrias Research, Edmonton +1 403 428 1616 > {uunet!mnetor,ubc-vision,watmath,vax135}!alberta!myrias!cg -- Dave Haynie "The 32 Bit Guy" Commodore-Amiga "The Crew That Never Rests" {ihnp4|uunet|rutgers}!cbmvax!daveh PLINK: D-DAVE H BIX: hazy "I can't relax, 'cause I'm a Boinger!"
mp1u+@andrew.cmu.edu.UUCP (07/13/88)
> *Excerpts from ext.nn.comp.sys.amiga: 7-Jul-88 Re: Ideas for New Custom Ch..* > *Chris Gray@myrias.UUCP (1944)* > What I would like to see is a HAM mode that would work with 2, 3, 4, and 5 > bit deep displays as follows: (example for 5 bits/pixel) > 5-bits > 00000 - use same colour as previous pixel > xxxxx - select one of lower 32 colour table registers > (the 0th entry is not accessible, but is still used > as the border colour) > The same pattern holds for other depths - all bits zero means use the same > colour as the horizontally previous pixel. The Apple //gs has a mode very similar to this -- it is called "fill mode" or something like that. Basically, you can draw a line and the hardware will replicate that color across the scan line until it hits a non-background pixel or the screen border. --M Michael Portuesi / Information Technology Center / Carnegie Mellon University ARPA/UUCP: mp1u+@andrew.cmu.edu BITNET: rainwalker@drycas "if you ain't ill it'll fix your car"
ewhac@well.UUCP (07/13/88)
In article <613@myrias.UUCP> cg@myrias.UUCP (Chris Gray) writes: >Here's a suggestion for a very simple new mode in the custom chips. [ ... ] > 5-bits > 00000 - use same colour as previous pixel > xxxxx - select one of lower 32 colour table registers > (the 0th entry is not accessible, but is still used > as the border colour) > >The same pattern holds for other depths - all bits zero means use the same >colour as the horizontally previous pixel. > This sounds a hell of a lot like the new weirdass whiz-bang graphics mode on the Apple //-gee-whiz. After reading about this feature and declaring it Pretty Neat Even If Apple Did Think Of It, and thinking about how it would be nice if the Amiga had it too, it struck me that we already have it. It's called HAM mode. Granted, it's not as general as the approach outlined above, but you still can do "area fills" in HAM using a similar technique by judiciously (sp?) selecting pen numbers. _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ Leo L. Schwab -- The Guy in The Cape INET: well!ewhac@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU \_ -_ Recumbent Bikes: UUCP: pacbell > !{well,unicom}!ewhac O----^o The Only Way To Fly. hplabs / (pronounced "AE-wack") "Hmm, you're right. Air is made up of suspended meat loaf." -- Josh Siegel
cg@myrias.UUCP (Chris Gray) (07/14/88)
In article <6510@well.UUCP> ewhac@well.UUCP (Leo 'Bols Ewhac' Schwab) writes: ... stuff about my idea for an area fill graphics mode > This sounds a hell of a lot like the new weirdass whiz-bang graphics >mode on the Apple //-gee-whiz. After reading about this feature and >declaring it Pretty Neat Even If Apple Did Think Of It, and thinking about >how it would be nice if the Amiga had it too, it struck me that we already >have it. > > It's called HAM mode. > > Granted, it's not as general as the approach outlined above, but you >still can do "area fills" in HAM using a similar technique by judiciously >(sp?) selecting pen numbers. I had thought about that, but couldn't come up with a way that it would work out. You want to only have to do the actual drawing for the lines. That means the image would have to be filled with something that propagates the previous colour. In HAM, you can only propagate the previous colour at the same time as replacing one of the RGB sets. That means you have to pick one of R, G, or B to be at only one value throughout your image. If you pick, say, R, then you fill the image with the 6-bit pattern than means modify R to xxx (you get to pick what xxx is, but it has to be the same for the whole picture, and it has to be the same in each of the 16 colour registers you can select directly). Or do you have something else in mind Leo? Does anyone out there who has used an Apple II-gs know of any programs or games that make use of its fill mode (or whatever its called)? What strikes me as most useful is if the mode could be used in conjunction with dual playfields. That way, something like Arctic Fox could use the fill mode to draw its animated view, and use a regular mode for the cockpit stuff. -- Chris Gray Myrias Research, Edmonton +1 403 428 1616 {uunet!mnetor,ubc-vision,watmath,vax135}!alberta!myrias!cg