daves@hpcilzb.HP.COM (Dave Scroggins) (06/30/88)
HELP!!! I have recently seen some postings (and other info.) talking about the popularity of the MAC. (and Atari) One of the things I notice about some of the MAC dealers is the level of expertise and service of the sales people. (Although I don't go into MAC stores too often, 'cause I have an AMIGA. ;-) ) HOWEVER -- the level of commitment, expertise, and service I have seen in stores that sell AMIGAs has been marginal at best. In fact a recent experience in a AMIGA store prompted this posting. To say I was enraged would be putting it mildly. Well I could post the store name and address to the net for all the world, and mostly folks at Commodore folks to see. naaahh -- I REALLY think that these grossly incompetent sales "things" seriously hurt the AMIGA sales. So -- I'll ask the net -- Should I post the names and addresses of the offending stores? Will CBM be interested in getting the stores that sell their product to improve their service and educate their employees? Or am I just stuck with brain-dead sales scum who fling a demo disk at me and say, "here try it and leave me alone!!"? I like my AMIGA and don't like the kind of support I've been getting from the stores I go to. (Hell I can get better service from Mail Order) So - Want should I do????? (CBM are you listening??) Dave (complaining again) S.
elg@killer.UUCP (Eric Green) (07/01/88)
In message <2030082@hpcilzb.HP.COM>, daves@hpcilzb.HP.COM (Dave Scroggins) says: >I REALLY think that these grossly incompetent sales "things" >seriously hurt the AMIGA sales. > >Will CBM be interested in getting the stores that sell their product to >improve their service and educate their employees? Saying "improve service and educate employees" is certainly easy enough, just like saying "nobody should go hungry, we should give everybody a free lunch". The problem is that it's easy to say -- harder to do. Do you have any suggestions on HOW to "improve service and educate employees"? The Apple and IBM dealers generally send their employees to training workshops. Remember, the dealer (or manager) is generally a professional sales flak, with little computer experience, and can't be expected to train his employees himself. Unfortunately, I don't know if that option is available to Amiga dealers... So "improve service and train employees" turns out to be yet another easily-said phrase that's not-so-easily implemented... at least, not unless you're willing to set up a service yourself to train dealers and their employees? -- Eric Lee Green ..!{ames,decwrl,mit-eddie,osu-cis}!killer!elg Snail Mail P.O. Box 92191 Lafayette, LA 70509 "Is a dream a lie if it don't come true, or is it something worse?"
arxt@sphinx.uchicago.edu (patrick palmer) (07/01/88)
at best modestly happy with local service because of a 3 month wait for a replacement disk drive for an A1000. One local store was an obvious rip-off; another was staffed by nice interested people who seemed to have zero clout with CBM parts dept. I came to the conclusion that this is a CBM problem: is the Amiga a "cult computer" for people who are very knowledgable and will do most of their own repairs - or are simply patient individuals who have access to other resources like me; or is the Amiga really going to offer the level of support - and the cost - of the Apple/IBM mainstream? Whenever we ask for more support, we have to remember that it costs someone something, and this cost has got to be recouped somehow. I imagine that CBM's decision must be based on a simple analysis of the market: will sales be so significantly increased by improved service that they can afford to put the money necessary into the effort. It looks like the decision is the conservative one; although the move toward the educational market may indicate otherwise. Sorry for rambling on at 2AM, but I don't want to read about computer stores all over the country, and you probably do not want to hear about the stores in the Chicago area either.
fgd3@jc3b21.UUCP (Fabbian G. Dufoe) (07/01/88)
By all means post the names and addresses of the stores you have
problems with. Describe the problem. If Commodore wants to take some
action they can do so. At least other people will know how to avoid the
same problem.
Just don't forget to post the names and addresses of stores where you
have good experiences, too. Everyone is looking for a store like that.
--Fabbian Dufoe
350 Ling-A-Mor Terrace South
St. Petersburg, Florida 33705
813-823-2350
UUCP: ...gatech!codas!usfvax2!jc3b21!fgd3 bilbo@pnet02.cts.com (Bill Daggett) (07/02/88)
daves@hpcilzb.HP.COM (Dave Scroggins) writes: >HELP!!! > >HOWEVER -- the level of commitment, expertise, and service I have >seen in stores that sell AMIGAs has been marginal at best. > >In fact a recent experience in a AMIGA store prompted this posting. >To say I was enraged would be putting it mildly. > >So -- I'll ask the net -- Should I post the names and addresses of the >offending stores? > >Will CBM be interested in getting the stores that sell their product to >improve their service and educate their employees? Go ahead, tell us the store name... There's no law against it if they hurt you! BUT remember, the Amiga is not a Mac. Over the years I've had just as much sales trouble in Apple stores too. You'll never know if your complaining would have helped or not if you don't complain. Just remember the damn sword has two edges! Bill UUCP: {ihnp4!scgvaxd!cadovax rutgers!marque}!gryphon!pnet02!bilbo INET: bilbo@pnet02.cts.com * Sometimes The Dragon Wins! * Still looking for the best Amiga BBS software to resurrect Bilbo's Hideaway on - but not holding breath!
elg@killer.UUCP (Eric Green) (07/02/88)
In message <4408@sphinx.uchicago.edu>, arxt@sphinx.uchicago.edu (patrick palmer) says: >access to other resources like me; or is the Amiga really going to offer the >level of support - and the cost - of the Apple/IBM mainstream? Whenever we >ask for more support, we have to remember that it costs someone something, and >this cost has got to be recouped somehow. I imagine that CBM's decision must >be based on a simple analysis of the market: will sales be so significantly >increased by improved service that they can afford to put the money necessary >into the effort A reputation for service is one of the reasons that many TV stations look quite warily at the Amiga when you're trying to sell it to them... "Yeah, but what if it breaks?" is a common question. Reasonable, considering that many of this kind of people have kids with C-64 computers (marvelous exploding power supplies and all -- my local dealer has sold hundreds of power supplies, providing a major part of his revenue!). Generally, when people buy a $2,000 ANYTHING, they want SERVICE for the thing. That seems to be a point that Commodore-USA hasn't woken up to, yet. Speedy delivery of repair parts and well-trained dealers are at least two things that seem to be lacking here (at least, from the complaints on the net -- I personally have had no problems of either type). As to how Commodore can build a reputation for service and turn it into sales, once they build a dealer network.... I'll leave that up to them. But one thing I did notice, on their new PC clones: the low end (the "Colt") has a 90 day warranty, while the high end ones have a 1 year warranty. Something similiar to the "Quality is Job 1" and "The best-selling MS-DOS computers in Germany" might do the trick. The only problem is keeping the low end from besmirching the high end -- can't forget all those C-64s and A-500s with smoke coming out of their video chips :-). -- Eric Lee Green ..!{ames,decwrl,mit-eddie,osu-cis}!killer!elg Snail Mail P.O. Box 92191 Lafayette, LA 70509 "Is a dream a lie if it don't come true, or is it something worse?"
tsouth@pro-pac.CTS.COM (Todd South) (07/02/88)
In Article: <4662@killer.UUCP> elg@killer.UUCP (Eric Green) writes: >> In message <2030082@hpcilzb.HP.COM>, daves@hpcilzb.HP.COM (Dave Scroggins) >> says: >> I REALLY think that these grossly incompetent sales "things" >> seriously hurt the AMIGA sales. >> Will CBM be interested in getting the stores that sell their product to >> improve their service and educate their employees? > Saying "improve service and educate employees" is certainly easy > enough, just like saying "nobody should go hungry, we should give > everybody a free lunch". [etc...] > The Apple and IBM dealers generally send their employees to training > workshops. Remember, the dealer (or manager) is generally a > professional sales flak, with little computer experience, [etc..] > So "improve service and train employees" turns out to be yet another > easily-said phrase that's not-so-easily implemented... at least, not > unless you're willing to set up a service yourself to train dealers > and their employees? > Eric Lee Green ..!{ames,decwrl,mit-eddie,osu-cis}!killer!elg Sorry, I don't think that free lunches have much to do with it. Sufficed to say, you are correct in your account of the training workshops. But I find that dealers which are conversant in current technology and general computing subjects a lot easier to work with than "Mr. Let-Me-Show-You- This-New-Computerl**d-Clone". I recently was out pricing Amiga 2000's. I wonder just how average my experience was in comparison to most other Amiga shoppers? At one store, the salesman talked about level-1 tech support (you know, pull out broke motherboard ---> insert new one); at another the store was just barely competent to operate some copy program for "cutting down" on software prices. Finally, I found one that not only sells for a premium price, but also WILL be there with a full department of tech support, whether it be for fixing the machine or helping you learn it. Can you guess which one will get my business? Todd South -- UUCP: {nosc, cacilj, sdcsvax, hplabs!hp-sdd} ...!crash!pnet01!pro-simasd!pro-pac!tsouth ARPA: crash!pnet01!pro-simasd!pro-pac!tsouth@nosc.MIL INET: tsouth@pro-pac.CTS.COM - BITNET: pro-pac.UUCP!tsouth@PSUVAX1
lishka@uwslh.UUCP (Fish-Guts) (07/03/88)
In article <4671@killer.UUCP> elg@killer.UUCP (Eric Green) writes: >Generally, when people buy a $2,000 ANYTHING, they want SERVICE for >the thing. That seems to be a point that Commodore-USA hasn't woken up >to, yet. Speedy delivery of repair parts and well-trained dealers are >at least two things that seem to be lacking here (at least, from the >complaints on the net -- I personally have had no problems of either >type). I think this is a very important point if Commodore is going to go after the business market. I work in a public health laboratory (admittedly, not the center of a business community, but a professional organization nevertheless). and we would be unable to function normally if our computer died, even for one day. To us this is a disaster...however our sysop has averted any major tragedy for the two years I have been working here. One way he does this is by buying from companies with a reputation, who provide good service (at a price, of course). He doesn't usually consider other companies that cannot live up to this (or so it seems). The point is that if one wants to capture the business market, one of the things that a computer company needs to offer is a reliable machine and a good service plan. From the complaints that have been voiced over the net (mostly for a500's), this is not quite what Commodore seems to be doing. >Eric Lee Green ..!{ames,decwrl,mit-eddie,osu-cis}!killer!elg > Snail Mail P.O. Box 92191 Lafayette, LA 70509 >"Is a dream a lie if it don't come true, or is it something worse?" -Chris -- Christopher Lishka | lishka@uwslh.uucp Wisconsin State Lab of Hygiene | lishka%uwslh.uucp@cs.wisc.edu Immunology Section (608)262-1617 | ...!{rutgers|ucbvax|...}!uwvax!uwslh!lishka "...Just because someone is shy and gets straight A's does not mean they won't put wads of gum in your arm pits." - Lynda Barry, "Ernie Pook's Commeek: Gum of Mystery"
jesup@cbmvax.UUCP (Randell Jesup) (07/04/88)
In article <3170@crash.cts.com> tsouth@pro-pac.CTS.COM (Todd South) writes: >But I >find that dealers which are conversant in current technology and general >computing subjects a lot easier to work with than "Mr. Let-Me-Show-You- >This-New-Computerl**d-Clone". I agree. In my experience, there was one local dealer (Software & Such, Glenville, NY) that was lightyears better than all the others. The owner gave excellent support, did his own burn-in tests on incoming machines so you didn't get home to a suprise, was very good about exchanging hardware OR software that was broken, had an excellent selection of SW, and even had very good prices (though not as low as mail order, of course.) I even saw him talk someone out of an item that wasn't really what they wanted. Ever see a store that would let you try software for signifigant periods in the store, even games, to see if you liked it before buying? He put a big premium on keeping his customers happy. And it paid off through people like me who were very pleased with the service. >Finally, I found one that not only sells for a premium >price, but also WILL be there with a full department of tech support, >whether it be for fixing the machine or helping you learn it. Can you >guess which one will get my business? -- Randell Jesup, Commodore Engineering {uunet|rutgers|allegra}!cbmvax!jesup
vkr@osupyr.mast.ohio-state.edu (Vidhyanath K. Rao) (07/05/88)
In article <346@uwslh.UUCP>, lishka@uwslh.UUCP (Fish-Guts) writes: > The point is that if one wants to capture the business market, > one of the things that a computer company needs to offer is a reliable > machine and a good service plan. From the complaints that have been > voiced over the net (mostly for a500's), this is not quite what > Commodore seems to be doing. The 500 is for el Cheapos like me :-). You pays your money and you takes your chances. If you really want to use a 500 for business, buy two of them. Actually that is something CBM can try its dealers to do: Keep a stock of 2000s. You pay a maintainance fee and if your machine breaks down, you get a replacement till the original is fixed. This is how high-end micros deal with breakdown. For all I know some dealer near you may be doing it.
tope@enea.se (Tommy Petersson) (07/05/88)
Here in Sweden Commodore was recently voted (by users) as the worst company in support of business computers. The Marketing Director thought that this indicated "some problem", but the President said that it was the dealers' fault (or maybe the users?). And they concentrate their support on the PC/AT's, about 3 persons in Sweden for Amiga support...
andy@cbmvax.UUCP (Andy Finkel) (07/06/88)
In article <2030082@hpcilzb.HP.COM> daves@hpcilzb.HP.COM (Dave Scroggins) writes: >HELP!!! > >I have recently seen some postings (and other info.) talking >about the popularity of the MAC. (and Atari) > >One of the things I notice about some of the MAC dealers is >the level of expertise and service of the sales people. >(Although I don't go into MAC stores too often, 'cause I have >an AMIGA. ;-) ) > >HOWEVER -- the level of commitment, expertise, and service I have >seen in stores that sell AMIGAs has been marginal at best. > >In fact a recent experience in a AMIGA store prompted this posting. >To say I was enraged would be putting it mildly. > >Well I could post the store name and address to the net for >all the world, and mostly folks at Commodore folks to see. > >naaahh -- > >I REALLY think that these grossly incompetent sales "things" >seriously hurt the AMIGA sales. > >So -- I'll ask the net -- Should I post the names and addresses of the >offending stores? > >Will CBM be interested in getting the stores that sell their product to >improve their service and educate their employees? > >Or am I just stuck with brain-dead sales scum who fling a demo disk at >me and say, "here try it and leave me alone!!"? > >I like my AMIGA and don't like the kind of support I've been getting >from the stores I go to. (Hell I can get better service from Mail Order) > >So - Want should I do????? (CBM are you listening??) Well, it you don't want to post, you can at least mail the names of your problem dealers. -- andy finkel {uunet|rutgers|amiga}!cbmvax!andy Commodore-Amiga, Inc. "Un*x is the answer, but only if you phrase the question very carefully. Any expressed opinions are mine; but feel free to share. I disclaim all responsibilities, all shapes, all sizes, all colors.
daves@hpcilzb.HP.COM (Dave Scroggins) (07/06/88)
The responses so far indicate that the BAD dealers
outnumber the good ones by quite a margine.
So maybe CBM will want to hear about the bad dealers, and
maybe have a talk with the owners about their service.
Bad dealer name -
Home Computing Centers
Tanforan Park #115
San Bruno, Ca. 94066
Ph. (415) 588-1201
complaints-
1) One of the sales scum sits on his fat rear behind the counter.
The ONE time I have seen him get up off his fat duff is when I
asked him to show me some features of a software package.
I did seem to put him to a lot of trouble by my request.
It took him away from doing NOTHING!!!!
He flung the disk down on the desk by the A500 and said that I
could boot it up. The stero that is supposed to be there to
demo the Amiga sound capabilities was palying RAP music from
a cassette tape.
2) The sales people can't answer even basic questions about the
Amiga computer.
3) A perspective customer came and asked ME to show her the features
of the Amiga. The sales people ignored her completely. One
was playing a game on another machine. There was no custore with him.
(Thus he wasn;t demoing anything!!)
The fat boy was talking on the phone behind the desk. From the content
of the conversation, rock music etc, it was NOT a business call.
I believe that CBM lost a sale in this case.
4) The store does not even stock a 2000. There is very little hardware
offered for the Amiga computers. (disks, extra memory etc.)
5) When I purchased some software the ONLY thing the fat boy said to me
was the amount of the total bill. The rest of the time he was talking
to a couple of women. They were NOT talking about computers either.
(If I didn't need the software to do a job that weekend I wouldn't
have bought it there.)
6) When I asked for a business card they three sales scum had to FIND
them first, and then the first one they gave me was BLANK!!!!
The second one I got has the address printed crooked.
(This lack of care of the store reflects on the products sold there
as well. CBM)
CBM shoould find places like this, give them a fixed amount of time to improve
the service. If they don't improve then don't let them sell the products.
A potential customers will not buy a product if the sales people cannot or
will not show him how it will serve his needs. I'm sure CBM will sell more
computers if they get good dealers to market them.
As far as training for the sales people go, there are lots of user groups
the sales people can attend at minimum cost to the dealer and CBM.
If Apple can have training siminars for the people selling their products
why can't CBM??
Well I'm done for now --
Dave S.jesup@cbmvax.UUCP (Randell Jesup) (07/07/88)
In article <2030083@hpcilzb.HP.COM> daves@hpcilzb.HP.COM (Dave Scroggins) writes: >The responses so far indicate that the BAD dealers >outnumber the good ones by quite a margine. > >So maybe CBM will want to hear about the bad dealers, and >maybe have a talk with the owners about their service. I don't think this is the case. Of the dealers I have known (before I joined C/A), 1 was fantastic, 1 was very good, and one was mediocre/poor (was more interested in selling macs, but wasn't evil or anything). It's just that people who have had bad experiences tend to tell others, because they're annoyed (rightfully). Remember there are around 12-15,000 people who read comp.sys.amiga, that's a lot of people who may have run into bad dealers. Now, don't get me wrong, I detest bad dealers, and think any is too many. I just want you to remember there are quite a few (hopefully a large majority) of good dealers out there. If you find such a dealer, support him. It will pay off for you in the long run, it did for me. >Bad dealer name - I'll pass it on. -- Randell Jesup, Commodore Engineering {uunet|rutgers|allegra}!cbmvax!jesup
elg@killer.UUCP (Eric Green) (07/07/88)
In message <3170@crash.cts.com>, tsouth@pro-pac.CTS.COM (Todd South) says: >In Article: <4662@killer.UUCP> elg@killer.UUCP (Eric Green) writes: >>> In message <2030082@hpcilzb.HP.COM>, daves@hpcilzb.HP.COM (Dave Scroggins) >>> Will CBM be interested in getting the stores that sell their product to >>> improve their service and educate their employees? >> The Apple and IBM dealers generally send their employees to training >> workshops. Remember, the dealer (or manager) is generally a >> professional sales flak, with little computer experience, [etc..] >Sorry, I don't think that free lunches have much to do with it. Sufficed >to say, you are correct in your account of the training workshops. But I >find that dealers which are conversant in current technology and general >computing subjects a lot easier to work with than "Mr. Let-Me-Show-You- >This-New-Computerl**d-Clone". The problem is finding people with computer knowledge who can also sell computers. For example, at one local Amiga dealer, his price on an A-500 is $50 more than at the other local Amiga dealer, but he provides full support, has a full service department, etc. But the guy's a failure at selling the things -- he comes off as an arrogant know-it-all asshole. At the other local Amiga dealership, they can tell you a little about Leading Edge PC clones, but not much about the Amiga. The other dealership is stocked with a professional sales thingy. Guess who sells more Amigas. Hint: It isn't the one with the service department. You have THREE Amiga dealers in your area? WOW! And I thought Lafayette was atypical by having two Amiga dealers in a city of 100,000 (when the 2nd and 3rd largest cities in Louisiana, nearly 3 times the size, have only 1 dealer apiece). Heck, we only have a single Apple dealer here! Amiga dealers are hard to come by, and I suspect that Commodore isn't interested in making it HARDER to become an Amiga dealer. -- Eric Lee Green ..!{ames,decwrl,mit-eddie,osu-cis}!killer!elg Snail Mail P.O. Box 92191 Lafayette, LA 70509 MISFORTUNE, n. The kind of fortune that never misses.
whitlock@tc.fluke.COM (David Whitlock) (07/08/88)
In article <2030083@hpcilzb.HP.COM>, daves@hpcilzb.HP.COM (Dave Scroggins) writes: > The responses so far indicate that the BAD dealers > outnumber the good ones by quite a margine. > > So maybe CBM will want to hear about the bad dealers, and > maybe have a talk with the owners about their service. > > Bad dealer name - Amiga Specialists (Alias MicroWorld) 15076 Middlebelt Rd. Livonia, MI 48154 (313) 261-0550 Archi Biggs Back in November of last year, this company offered an "Amiga 1000 upgrade to a Amiga 2000". The deal was (1) old Amiga 1000 + $1000 bucks = Amiga 2000 + Bridgecard for 1 cent more. Well they got my Amiga 1000, and I got the 2000 but ITS JULY and I have not received my Bridgecard yet!!!. 86 other customers are in the same waiting game. Word has it that this company may be in a cash basis with most vendors and that CBM is aware of the problem but what can they do to remedy this problem. What can we customers do, get a credit? I would prefer to no longer do business with this company and other off-the-shelf products are of no interest to me. I want my Bridgecard. I know that the deal was struck between Amiga World and its customers, but this was an authorized CBM trade-in right?? Could someone from CBM at least advise us customers what we can do; a half year is an awfully long time to wait for a Bridgecard. -- -- David Whitlock internet: whitlock@tc.fluke.COM uucp: {decvax!sun,ucbvax!sun,uw-beaver,ssc-vax,allegra,lbl-csam}!fluke!whitlock John Fluke Mfg. Co., Inc. 33031 Schoolcraft, Livonia, MI 48150 (313) 522-9140
Doug_B_Erdely@cup.portal.com (07/08/88)
I can't help but comment on this subject... The Dealer we have here is for
the most part... USELESS!!! I got news for ya folks... it's NOT the quantity
of dealers.. but THE QUALITY!!! ONE good dealers will sell more Amigas and do
more good for Amiga than 10 bad dealers... Sorry to break Dan S. bubble..
But, I have done some traveling the last month or so... and 75% of the Amiga
dealers I have seen are WORTHLESS!!! And it really pisses me OFF! Because
the Amiga deserves better! Dan mentions that more of the CBM people spend
their free time on USENET etc... than IBM or Apple.. That may be true.. BUT
Apple or IBM.. take your pick offers BETTER support than CBM... Luckly, the
CBM folks CARE! And please.. I am NOT PUTTING DOWN what CATS does.. I myself
think that is currently one of CBM's stongest and nicest points. But WHY?????
Won't CBM listen to what some of the users say??? I Love the Amiga.. and I
have never, NEVER seen a more devoted following than what the Amiga has. Folks
who have "Switched" from other brands of computers, are amazed at the almost
religious attitude that most Amiga owners have toward the Amiga.
Please, I do not mean for this to be a negative posting, I have myself sold
or been responsible for a fair amount of Amiga systems... I have invited a
number of folks over to my house for a demonstration.... and so far.. ALL of
the folks who I have sat down with and showed them the machine were impressed..
enough so that they purchased an Amiga. I think that CBM should atleast LISTEN
to what some of the Amiga folks have to say... I think that they would be
surprised at what they would hear... There are ALOT of good ideas... some I
have heard here on USENET, others I have heard elsewhere. But the point is...
The Amiga folks CARE! I am not saying that CBM does not care... but sometime
I begin to wonder... The machine is really starting to take off.. There is
a nice selection of software... and in the Desktop area... I myself don't
think that it can be touched by ANY OTHER SYSTEM 5X the price... and this
includes the MAC II... Of course I may be a bit biased... I use one at work
too! :> :> But, they really NEED to do something about the dealer network..
and service.. My A1000 has been VERY reliable.. I use the thing ATLEAST 6
hours a day, ATLEAST... and in 90 degree temps... NOT a bit of problem..
BUT.. god forbid, the day that may come when I have to take the machine to the
WORTHLESS dealer that we have in this area... CATS does a FANTASTIC JOB of
supporting the developers and helping other users on the Nets.. I just wish
the rest of CBM was as dedicated to helping the rest of the Amiga population
that does not have access to a major net... or even HALF as dedicated!!
On a posative note... I have seen some improvments in CBM... CATS being one
of them... in fact.. I think that Amiga developers get very good support..
in fact... the best support that CBM has ever given! But there is still
some room for improvment.. Amiga and CBM are I feel in a great posistion to
move up there with the big boys.. and shake the "Isn't that a game machine
blues". just listen to what your LOYAL users say... and take that into
account when making atleast SOME of the descisions that will determine the
outcome of the Amiga's future...
- Doug -
Doug_B_Erdely@Portal.Cup.Comdaves@hpcilzb.HP.COM (Dave Scroggins) (07/09/88)
Eric, >The problem is finding people with computer knowledge who can also >sell computers. For example, at one local Amiga dealer, his price on I don't want to sound like a smartalec, but do you REALLY think the dealers can't find good sales people that know about computers, or are willing to learn??. What about the college students that are majoring in CS?? Moreover, even IF they can't find good sales people that have Amiga knowledge, why on earth can't these people LEARN? There are books and user groups in or near every city. The resources are available for even inexperienced people to learn about the Amiga. There is no excuse for the sales person to be rude or unknowledgeable about the product he is selling. That goes for computers as well as cars or anything else. >Amiga dealers are hard to come by, and I suspect that Commodore isn't >interested in making it HARDER to become an Amiga dealer. Do you thiunk it would be better for CBM to have dealers with rude uneducated sales people?? I mean what better way to sell MACs than have a persective customer treated like slime mold by the Amiga dealership!! The Marines want "a few good men". I want a few good Amiga dealers!! Dave S.
andre@gtss.UUCP (Andre Frech) (07/10/88)
Thank you David Masterson, Dave Scroggins, and David Whitlock for your
feedback on these dealers. I will pass on your comments to the appropriate
Regional Sales Managers (thank god that none of those bad ones fall in MY
territory! :-)
But I'm being impolite by not introducing myself.
David Masterson in <7098@cup.portal.com> asks for
someone who can handle the field marketing questions. My position as
southeast region education support (title is somewhat misleading) places me
in contact with marketing, sales, field technical support, servicing, and
the education of dealers for AR, TX, OK, LA, MS, FL, TN, NC, SC, and GA.
Hope I didn't miss any!
If you'd like, I'll volunteer to take any dealer complaints and forward them
to where they'll do the most good. I promise that that won't be /dev/null
if you mail them to the addresses below! I can't promise that I'll get
newsgroup postings in a timely order, although I do archive the net for my own
purposes (since Sept '85!)
Also, if you have any questions regarding the above areas, feel free to either
email or call me during normal eastern business hours. That's eastern time,
not the airline company. I'm more accessible via email to either gtss or
cbmvax, but I am a guest on gtss in order to circumvent long distance charges
to cbmvax (since I'm in Atlanta, GA). Either one is fine, though.
Thanks again for being a responsive and vocal user community! Hope to hear
from some of you soon.
Andre Frech | Commodore Business Machines
Education Support | 535A Colonial Park Drive #100
{uunet, rutgers, amiga}!cbmvax!andre | Roswell, GA 30075
{gatech}!gtss!andre | 404-587-3883 (0830-1730 EDT)
redime te captum quam queas minimo -- name, rank, and serial number.
--
Andre Frech Commodore Business Machines (the Amiga people)
{gatech}!gtss!andre Southeast Technical Support (and other stuff)
{rutgers}!cbmvax!andre 535A Colonial Park Drive, Suite 100
Voice: 404-587-3883 Roswell, GA 30075 (that's near Atlanta)papa@pollux.usc.edu (Marco Papa) (07/10/88)
In article <261@gtss.UUCP> andre@gtss.UUCP (Andre Frech) writes: |Thank you David Masterson, Dave Scroggins, and David Whitlock for your |feedback on these dealers. I will pass on your comments to the appropriate |Regional Sales Managers (thank god that none of those bad ones fall in MY |territory! :-) | ... | My position as |southeast region education support (title is somewhat misleading) places me |in contact with marketing, sales, field technical support, servicing, and |the education of dealers for AR, TX, OK, LA, MS, FL, TN, NC, SC, and GA. |If you'd like, I'll volunteer to take any dealer complaints and forward them |to where they'll do the most good. I promise that that won't be /dev/null |if you mail them to the addresses below! | |Andre Frech | Commodore Business Machines |Education Support | 535A Colonial Park Drive #100 |{uunet, rutgers, amiga}!cbmvax!andre | Roswell, GA 30075 |{gatech}!gtss!andre | 404-587-3883 (0830-1730 EDT) Well, what is THAT for answer? To say that there is another side of the coin, today I went to the grand opening of the second store of "Creative Computers" in South Bay (Lawndale, CA about an hour from Hollywood). This is the second of four stores that will be opening soon in the LA area (Santa Monica was the first, Ventura coming soon). The stores handle ONLY Amiga software and hardware, and they stock almost EVERYTHING that is available for the Amiga. Their staff is curteous and techically knowledgeable. Their prices are "mail order" prices with a store front support. I understand they received a prize from CBM for the "fastest growing dealer" of the whole western region. They don't seem to have any of the problems that have plagued similar fast growing outlets (remember Go Amigo?). They are doing GREAT business (a number of Amiga 500s left the store in the hour I was there). They assured me that they have had NO Amiga 500 that was DOA. The only problem thay had was with a few monitors. They are also being set up as an authorized repair center, with most parts in stock at all times (More to come). If you are in the LA area, I suggest you check them out. Storefronts: 318 Wilshire Blvd., Santa Monica, CA 90401 4453 Redondo Beach Blvd., Lawndale, CA 90260 P.S.: Yes, they stock A-Talk Plus, and yes I spent a bundle there today :-) (Gee, Harv why did you tell me about it? :-) -- Marco Papa 'Doc' -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= uucp:...!pollux!papa BIX:papa ARPAnet:pollux!papa@oberon.usc.edu "There's Alpha, Beta, Gamma and Diga!" -- Leo Schwab [quoting Rick Unland] -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
arxt@sphinx.uchicago.edu (patrick palmer) (07/11/88)
Although I still do not see much sense of identifying bad dealers here, there are exceptions. Family Computing Centres, S. Orange, New Jersey was one that was advertised here on USENET because they offered an exceptionally good trade up deal for the B2000. A number of us, apparently ordered mail order from them. I paid for a second floppy drive, and have not been able to get my money back after cancelling when they did not have them in stock (months ago). They promised to refund the money ($192) "right away" after a phone call. After a series of letters and phone calls and still no check, I made another phone call; they said that they thought that the check had been sent, so they had thrown away the earlier correspondance. They promised to make the refund immediately if I would send them another copy. They sent a refund check (for an incorrect amount) a few weeks ago. I deposited it and it came back "insufficient funds". I called, and they said that there had been a "hold of some kind" on their account, and their bookkeeper would send another check tomorrow. That was on July 1, and still no check. It sounds like they are bankrupt, so I caution anyone else who is trying to do business with them. One should not attempt to generalize about Amiga dealers from this experience. Small business do go bankrupt at a fairly high rate. The reason I feel that this info should be posted here is that the dealers name came to me on USENET and other readers may be trying to deal with them.
elg@killer.DALLAS.TX.US (Eric Green) (07/17/88)
in article <2030085@hpcilzb.HP.COM>, daves@hpcilzb.HP.COM (Dave Scroggins) says: >>The problem is finding people with computer knowledge who can also >>sell computers. For example, at one local Amiga dealer, his price on > I don't want to sound like a smartalec, but do you REALLY think the > dealers can't find good sales people that know about computers, or > are willing to learn??. Dealers can. But it takes a lot of time and trouble, so most dealers won't. Also note that the owners of most dealerships are NOT "computer-competent", and really couldn't tell if their salesfolks were knowledgable or not. > What about the college students that are majoring in CS?? The local "unknowledgable" computer store has had several college students come and go. One was fired because he was no good at selling (came off as an a-hole know-it-all -- which he was, but...). Another simply knew nothing about microcomputers -- heck, I've found CS students who didn't know the difference between Unix and a Pyramid 90x (after all, it's not part of the curriculum!). > Moreover, even IF they can't find good sales people that have Amiga > knowledge, why on earth can't these people LEARN? Mostly because the brains seem to ossify somewhere between the ages of 20 and 30 :-). Seriously -- I regularly deal with people who have had home computers for 3 or 4 year, and are quite serious about them. I still have to lead them around by the nose when it comes to anything that requires technical knowledge. Add in the fact that most sales people became sales people because they liked talking to people and really didn't want to learn "icky engineering stuff".... So yeah, there's books and user groups. But not everybody is a programmer, like us. Ordinary folks have a real hard time learning basic computer stuff without benefit of classroom. > There is no excuse for the sales person to be rude or unknowledgeable > about the product he is selling. That goes for computers as well as > cars or anything else. Certainly. But, as I said, most of the people with technical knowledge (US) are pretty useless when it comes to selling things (believe me, I've seen what technicians can do to customers. Plus, I've had first-hand experience :-( ). Not to mention that some of us would rather be creating the next software best-seller than selling Amigae to the unwashed masses. -- Eric Lee Green ..!{ames,decwrl,mit-eddie,osu-cis}!killer!elg Snail Mail P.O. Box 92191 Lafayette, LA 70509 MISFORTUNE, n. The kind of fortune that never misses.
Doug_B_Erdely@cup.portal.com (07/18/88)
I think another problem needs to be mentioned... Your not going to make ANY
money in retail!! The main problem is people want someone who is a computer
science wizz... but they want to pay $4.50 an hour!! I know!
So if anyone else is willing to give up their GOOD paying job to go retail..
let me know... I know of a dealer who could use you... BAD!!
Your NOT going to get GOOD sales people who KNOW what they are doing for
$4.50 an hour plus commisions! You just can't pay the bills, run a house, etc..
- Doug -
Doug_B_Erdely@Portal.Cup.ComA1S@PSUVM.BITNET (Andrew Snyder) (07/19/88)
Personally, I would have loved to have had a part time retail job this summer at $4.50 & commision. Us student types work cheap, know more about computers than store managers, and usualy have retail eperiance. Think about it. Andrew "Evil Genius for a Better Tomorrow]
daves@hpcilzb.HP.COM (Dave Scroggins) (07/21/88)
Doug, >I think another problem needs to be mentioned... Your not going to make ANY >money in retail!! The main problem is people want someone who is a computer >science wizz... but they want to pay $4.50 an hour!! I know! I don't think people expect every sales person to be a "computer whizz". I * DO * expect them to be reaonably knowlegeable with the product they are selling, in this case computers. >So if anyone else is willing to give up their GOOD paying job to go retail.. There are many students that would LOVE the jobs. It would be good training for their latter career if they choose computer science or engineering. (or some other career which requires computer knowlege) >Your NOT going to get GOOD sales people who KNOW what they are doing for >$4.50 an hour plus commisions! You just can't pay the bills, run a house, etc.. Did YOUR first job pay enough to "pay the bill, run a house, etc"? Most people get a job or two BEFORE they are in a position to worry about a house and such. If the sales person does not or will not take the time and effort to become knowlegeable with the product they are selling then they should not be selling it. You CAN get GOOD sales people, and they CAN be TRAINED to "know what they are doing". Dave S.
Doug_B_Erdely@cup.portal.com (07/26/88)
Andrew,
That may be fine for the Summer, But what do the dealers do in the PEAK
SEASON of Christmas??!!
- Doug -
Doug_B_Erdely@Portal.Cup.ComDoug_B_Erdely@cup.portal.com (07/26/88)
Sorry Dave,
Can't agree with you on that at ALL! Our local dealer is a GOOD
example of the people you get when you pay minimum wage. And the students
are not around enough to keep up with new Amiga developments!
- Doug -
Doug_B_Erdely@Portal.Cup.Com