plouff@nac.dec.com (Wes Plouff) (07/23/88)
Even though comp.sys.amiga is an unmoderated group, the influx of new Amiga owners is causing repetition of the same basic questions every couple of months. I suggest that someone, preferably one of the more senior posters to this conference, start sending out monthly "introductory" postings. The goals of these postings would be to familiarize new readers with the newsgroup, and to cut down the number of basic questions, conserving net.bandwidth. It's important that the postings be factual, objective and barely opinionated. It's also important that disagreements about contents of introductory postings not turn into flame wars. If some one person (and the rest of the net) feel up to these guidelines, here is a possible structure. The introductory posting could consist of a short explanation of comp.sys.amiga, and answers to about 25-35 common questions. The posting could run, say, 300 lines. Some general topics which could provide four or five questions each are: 1. Usenet groups concerned with the Amiga, and how to use them. Also, general Usenet information and netetiquette. 2. Infrastructure. Pointers to magazines, BBS lists, Fish Disks, resource guides. 3. CATS. Presence on the net, stuff for sale, how to become a registered developer. 4. The machines. Differences among models, expansion, PC emulation, next release of the OS. 5. PD software. Comp.sources/binaries.amiga vs. archives and Fish disks, how to download and unpack, rules for posting, discussion of viruses and other nasties. 6. Miscellaneous questions. Boot colors, cables, cheap expansion products, rules for reviews and product comparisons on the net, discussion of product cost vs. parts cost (why is it so expensive), etc. These are just thought starters. Seems to me we can apply a little intelligence to improve the quality of life in this group without controversy. -- Wes Plouff, Digital Equipment Corp, Littleton, Mass. plouff%nac.dec@decwrl.dec.com "[Both Andrew] Grove and [Bill] Gates love the fact that it's called `the IBM PC,' and they just collect monopoly profits on Intel chips and DOS and OS/2 software." -- Scott McNealy, chairman of Sun Microsystems
karl@sugar.uu.net (Karl Lehenbauer) (07/24/88)
In article <8807222120.AA01368@decwrl.dec.com>, plouff@nac.dec.com (Wes
Plouff) suggests that having an oft-posted "Intro to comp.sys.amiga"
message that gives a lot of info about the group and answers oft-asked
questions, much like the intro-to-the-net messages. He then provides
an excellent list of things to include.
Here's a draft of some typical questions and answers I'd like to see
included. Some are a bit tounge-in-cheek.
-----------------------
Q: When I turn my Amiga on, it makes a horrible screeching noise, smokes,
and won't boot. Is something wrong with it, or what?
A: Your Amiga is broken. You need to get it fixed.
Q: The dealer in Bandar Absudristan sucks.
A: There's nothing anybody on the net can do about it. The Commodore people
who're on the network do not work in this area. The people on the net
represent a precious resource to us as Amiga users for they provide
technical support for the machine, including enhancing the software and
developing new hardware. There aren't very many of them and they are on
the net only because they're nice. Their official support is on Bix, an
expensive multiuser BBS. So it's only fair of us not to ask them to
forward our complaints about dealers.
A surface-mail letter to XXXXXXXXXX @ Commodore XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX is your
best bet. If you are looking for an alternative dealer, posting to your
regional distribution would be more appropriate.
Q: I want to know if I should buy an Atari ST or an Amiga or what? (usually
crossposted comp.sys.atari.st as well)
A: [someone should insert a quick rundown of display resolutions,
multitasking, architecture, DMA, etc, etc. Conclude with suggesting
that they should try both if they can and pick the machine that they
think is right for them. Of course they should expect most readers
of comp.sys.amiga to like the Amiga pretty much.]
Q: this is a test message
A: If you want to see if you're getting out to the net, post to a test group
with a limited distribution. If you're getting out to nearby sites, you'll
get out to the net.
Q: I hate copy protection and I'm going to boycott XXX, etc.
A: Copy protection wars flare up periodically on the net and grow to span
many newsgroups. This is a difficult and emotional question, with many
viewpoints, and a viscous circle forms as ever-more-outrageous postings pour
forth, including all sorts of subskirmishes within, along with the
outraged bleating of a bunch of people as to the total inappropriateness
of all this within this group. The fact is that copy protection issues
are relevant to all computers, and thus should not be discussed in, *or
crossposted to*, comp.sys.amiga.
--
-- backups: always in season; never out of style.
-- karl@sugar.uu.net aka uunet!sugar!karldisd@hubcap.UUCP (Gary Heffelfinger) (07/25/88)
From article <8807222120.AA01368@decwrl.dec.com>, by plouff@nac.dec.com (Wes Plouff): > Even though comp.sys.amiga is an unmoderated group, the influx of new > Amiga owners is causing repetition of the same basic questions every > couple of months. I suggest that someone, preferably one of the more > senior posters to this conference, start sending out monthly > "introductory" postings. [Some very good ideas for these postings deleted] I'd also like to see something similar in the .tech group. Not so much because I'm tired of seeing duplicate postings, but because I'd like to see solutions to common programming problems condensed into a few printable, fileable postings. Gary > Wes Plouff, Digital Equipment Corp, Littleton, Mass. -- Gary Heffelfinger --- Employed by, but not the mouthpiece of Clemson University. ---=== Amiga. The computer for the best of us. ===---
richard@gryphon.CTS.COM (Richard Sexton) (07/25/88)
In article <8807222120.AA01368@decwrl.dec.com> plouff@nac.dec.com (Wes Plouff) writes: >Even though comp.sys.amiga is an unmoderated group, the influx of new >Amiga owners is causing repetition of the same basic questions every >couple of months. I suggest that someone, preferably one of the more >senior posters to this conference, start sending out monthly >"introductory" postings. > >The goals of these postings would be to familiarize new readers with the >newsgroup, and to cut down the number of basic questions, conserving >net.bandwidth. It's important that the postings be factual, objective >and barely opinionated. It's also important that disagreements about >contents of introductory postings not turn into flame wars. > >If some one person (and the rest of the net) feel up to these >guidelines, here is a possible structure. The introductory posting >could consist of a short explanation of comp.sys.amiga, and answers to >about 25-35 common questions. The posting could run, say, 300 lines. >Some general topics which could provide four or five questions each are: > >1. Usenet groups concerned with the Amiga, and how to use them. Also, >general Usenet information and netetiquette. > >2. Infrastructure. Pointers to magazines, BBS lists, Fish Disks, >resource guides. > >3. CATS. Presence on the net, stuff for sale, how to become a >registered developer. > >4. The machines. Differences among models, expansion, PC emulation, >next release of the OS. > >5. PD software. Comp.sources/binaries.amiga vs. archives and Fish >disks, how to download and unpack, rules for posting, discussion of >viruses and other nasties. > >6. Miscellaneous questions. Boot colors, cables, cheap expansion >products, rules for reviews and product comparisons on the net, >discussion of product cost vs. parts cost (why is it so expensive), etc. > >These are just thought starters. Seems to me we can apply a little >intelligence to improve the quality of life in this group without >controversy. Hard disks !! A LOT of the postings recently, in both amiga and .tech have been about harddisks. Funny, they wernt here 2 years ago :-) The PC and mac groups have had the same problems, tons and tons of hard disk postings, this may account for their high volume. Of course I'm biased -- I just got a hard disk. The concept of a .newusers group is not new, but it's gonna take somebody a lot of work. The same issue popped up a while back in comp.graphics - the same questions kept popping up againa and again and again and again; everybody decided that a comp.graphics.newusers was the way to go and then noting happened. Maybe a big posting every three weeks (bi monthly being too frequent and monthly not frequent enough) with commonly asked questions would be the best way to habdle this, with some good mechanism to add stuff to it. It's going to take somebody who really cares about the NET and who has a fair amount of time on their hands. -- Many have been bought by rich people, from other countries. richard@gryphon.CTS.COM {backbone}!gryphon!richard
jdow@pnet02.cts.com (Joanne Dow) (07/25/88)
(Gee, as I posted on usenet - bix has over 12megs of purely amiga conference
stuff online right now for spelunking for old answers. It saves a lot of
redundant questions - and redundant answers...)
{o.o}
Sowwy re the commercial bit it's hard to resist.
UUCP: {ihnp4!scgvaxd!cadovax, <backbone>}!gryphon!pnet02!jdow
INET: jdow@pnet02.cts.comain@s.cc.purdue.edu (Patrick White) (07/25/88)
In article <2331@sugar.uu.net> karl@sugar.uu.net (Karl Lehenbauer) writes: >In article <8807222120.AA01368@decwrl.dec.com>, plouff@nac.dec.com (Wes >Plouff) suggests that having an oft-posted "Intro to comp.sys.amiga" >message that gives a lot of info about the group and answers oft-asked >questions, much like the intro-to-the-net messages. He then provides >an excellent list of things to include. How about posting such a beast with something like a 3-month expiration date.. that way, it would be the *first* article a new user ever reads... could also put in some info about what the group is intended for... naw.. that seems like it makes too much sense... dumb idea... sorry to bother ya all. -- Pat White ARPA/UUCP: j.cc.purdue.edu!ain BITNET: PATWHITE@PURCCVM PHONE: (317) 743-8421 U.S. Mail: 320 Brown St. apt. 406, West Lafayette, IN 47906
david@ms.uky.edu (David Herron -- One of the vertebrae) (07/26/88)
In article <4985@gryphon.CTS.COM> jdow@pnet02.cts.com (Joanne Dow) writes: >(Gee, as I posted on usenet - bix has over 12megs of purely amiga conference >stuff online right now for spelunking for old answers. It saves a lot of >redundant questions - and redundant answers...) >{o.o} > Sowwy re the commercial bit it's hard to resist. gee ... only 12 megs? that's only a season's traffic here ... Please try harder to resist in the future ... We see at least 130 megs per month going through all of usenet. There is no way that we could all afford to keep *everything* forever ... Given that there's very little history on Usenet, things like Frequently Asked Questions happen a lot. A posting like what being proposed is a Very Good Thing. Whoever is putting this together -- if there is anything I can do to help just let me know. I won't be able to give any technical hints about Amiga's, *but* I can help some with the automatic postings if you need. The basic idea is simply to have a file somewhere which has the complete article including headers; then every month or two weeks (it's real easy to do this in your monthly news cleanup script) you do "inews -h <that-file". -- <---- David Herron -- The E-Mail guy <david@ms.uky.edu> <---- ska: David le casse\*' {rutgers,uunet}!ukma!david, david@UKMA.BITNET <---- A misplaced Kansan trapped in the heart of Kentucky, <---- the state where it is now illegal to water your lawn on the wrong day.
edwin@hcr.UUCP (Edwin Hoogerbeets) (07/26/88)
In article <8807222120.AA01368@decwrl.dec.com> plouff@nac.dec.com.UUCP writes: >Even though comp.sys.amiga is an unmoderated group, the influx of new >Amiga owners is causing repetition of the same basic questions every >couple of months. I suggest that someone, preferably one of the more >senior posters to this conference, start sending out monthly >"introductory" postings. [plus more] This sounds like a very good idea! This could also be a reference document for even those who have been on the net longer. (Who actually remembers what the startup colours mean off the top of their head?) This should be a collective net effort. Other suggestions might be including the email addresses of amiga luminhcr on the net (if they are willing), which might be helpful when asking for source, help or sending in shareware donations, etc. >If some one person (and the rest of the net) feel up to these >guidelines, here is a possible structure. I'm willing to collect mail and organize it into a posting, if no one else feels up to it. If you have something you think should be in this, send me mail at {utai,utzoo,utcsri,lsuc,ncrcan}!hcr!edwin I just picked up the posting about the most common novice Amiga programmer mistakes, which I think would be suitable for the introductory posting. ------ --------- = ------------------------------------------- Edwin (Deepthot) Waterloo co-op student, HCR Corporation Hoogerbeets 2A computer science and psychology utai!{utzoo,utcsri}!hcr!edwin Null human body; hope that's ok edwin@hcr // Me Tarzan, Unix or: // I/owe is costly ...!hcr!MsgPort!edwin \\ // Amiga Glider pilots are experts A B2000 running UUPC \X/ Enthusiast at keeping it up!
perley@mazda.steinmetz (Donald P Perley) (07/27/88)
In article <4985@gryphon.CTS.COM> jdow@pnet02.cts.com (Joanne Dow) writes: >(Gee, as I posted on usenet - bix has over 12megs of purely amiga conference >stuff online right now for spelunking for old answers. It saves a lot of >redundant questions - and redundant answers...) >{o.o} > Sowwy re the commercial bit it's hard to resist. Gee, we have around 25 megs of amiga stuff from usenet archived (a lot of that is compressed file size), not counting things from this month that haven't expired yet. Probably some more somewhere on tape. Sorry re dumping on your bix advantage, but it's hard to resist :-) That is a lot to search through. Even if a new user wrote a shell script to do the searching, he probably would have trouble coming up with good parameters to search on. -don perley
ncreed@ndsuvax.UUCP (Walter Reed) (07/27/88)
In article <11660@steinmetz.ge.com> perley@mazda.steinmetz.ge.com (Donald P Perley) writes: ] ]In article <4985@gryphon.CTS.COM> jdow@pnet02.cts.com (Joanne Dow) writes: ]>(Gee, as I posted on usenet - bix has over 12megs of purely amiga conference ]>stuff online right now for spelunking for old answers. It saves a lot of ]>redundant questions - and redundant answers...) ]> Sowwy re the commercial bit it's hard to resist. ]Gee, we have around 25 megs of amiga stuff from usenet archived ]... Probably some more somewhere ]on tape. Sorry re dumping on your bix advantage, but it's hard to ]resist :-) ]-don perley Hmmm, Our site has every amiga thing since net.micro.amiga article #1. Of course all that stuff is on tape, but it seems to me that alot of major sites would have done the same thing. I would hate to even guess how many megs of stuff is still floating around. I had thoughts of pulling all the source code ever posted to amiga groups out and putting them somewhere, but the job would take weeks (time I don't have.) I wonder if some people would be embarrassed about some of the articles they posted a few years ago. I hope we don't have any My-Site-Has-More-Archives-Than-Yours wars now...:-) -- ------ Walter Reed ------ + uunet!ndsuvax!ncreed or ncreed@ndsuvax.BITNET "There's no point in being + or ncreed@plains.NoDak.edu grown up if you can't be + Phone: (701) 235-0774 childish sometimes!" Dr. Who + USnAIL: 1430 12 Ave N. Fargo, ND 58102
daves@hpcilzb.HP.COM (Dave Scroggins) (07/28/88)
Folks, >Even though comp.sys.amiga is an unmoderated group, the influx of new >Amiga owners is causing repetition of the same basic questions every >couple of months. I suggest that someone, preferably one of the more > >The goals of these postings would be to familiarize new readers with the >newsgroup, and to cut down the number of basic questions, conserving >net.bandwidth. It's important that the postings be factual, objective I like the idea of a "New Users Posting", but it seems to me there is little tolerance for new users and "basic" questions on the net. (This is not limited to this group by any means!!) Remember -- We were ALL new users once!!! Just because we learned a few things does not mean we should become "computer snobs". If someone asks a "basic" question just E-mail the answer. This would cut down on the infamous "Net Bandwidth" AND make the new users feel welcome. Just a thought -- Dave S.
plouff@nac.dec.com (Wes Plouff) (08/08/88)
[] To any in this newsgroup who may have replied to my posting two weeks ago... Sorry, our internal distribution of Usenet news broke down on that date and has not come back. So, no comments on the introductory postings proposal have reached me. When news service resumes here in VMS-land, expect responses/justification/defenses/wishful thinking as appropriate. -- Wes Plouff, Digital Equipment Corp, Littleton, Mass. plouff%nac.dec@decwrl.dec.com "[Both Andrew] Grove and [Bill] Gates love the fact that it's called `the IBM PC,' and they just collect monopoly profits on Intel chips and DOS and OS/2 software." -- Scott McNealy, chairman of Sun Microsystems