richard@gryphon.CTS.COM (Richard Sexton) (08/04/88)
In article <3093@tekig5.PEN.TEK.COM> wayneck@tekig5.PEN.TEK.COM (Wayne Knapp) writes: >I wrote: >> The Mac ][ still can't animate worth a pint of sour owl shit. >> >Why? No blitter. -- Bad sunburn. Real bad. richard@gryphon.CTS.COM {backbone}!gryphon!richard
wayneck@tekig5.PEN.TEK.COM (Wayne Knapp) (08/06/88)
In article <5152@gryphon.CTS.COM>, richard@gryphon.CTS.COM (Richard Sexton) writes: : In article <3093@tekig5.PEN.TEK.COM> wayneck@tekig5.PEN.TEK.COM (Wayne Knapp) writes: : >I wrote: : >> The Mac ][ still can't animate worth a pint of sour owl shit. : >> : >Why? : : No blitter. : I see you are talking about the game style 2D animation and not the super neat 3D animation.
dillon@CORY.BERKELEY.EDU (Matt Dillon) (08/07/88)
>In article <3093@tekig5.PEN.TEK.COM> wayneck@tekig5.PEN.TEK.COM (Wayne Knapp) writes: >>I wrote: >>> The Mac ][ still can't animate worth a pint of sour owl shit. >>> >>Why? > >No blitter. Well, theoretically, it *can* take a blitter, but the standard video boards don't come with any. I dunno who the idiots were who thought they could give a machine 8 bit planes and then not give it a blitter so it write to those planes fast. Though the Atari and Mac pointedly ignore or criticize our blitter, it really makes working with graphics on the Amiga *NICE* *AND* *FAST*. Add a couple of more: -You need *A LOT* of memory to do anything useful -It doesn't multitask worth a pint of sour owl shit either, though it seems to be acceptable to the Mac users (better than what they had before anyway). In fact, the only two things the Mac has that the Amiga needs is a resource system and generalized printer/graphics interface. The Amiga is very close to the latter (HEY COMMODORE, HOW ABOUT A CALL THAT RETURNS THE # OF CHARACTER COLUMNS AND ROWS PER SHEET IN THE CURRENT PITCH????????). I'm working on a generalized virtual vectror-oriented graphics space that can handle arbitrary scaling over a 2^32x2^32 graphics space, you think that's enough? Resources to... And a more generalized filesystem interface (domain system that encompasses *ALL* IO devices). -Matt
Chad_The-Walrus_Netzer@cup.portal.com (08/07/88)
In a previous article <Wayne Knapp> writes: (Eh Hem....) )In article <5152@gryphon.CTS.COM>, richard@gryphon.CTS.COM (Richard Sexton) writes: ): In article <3093@tekig5.PEN.TEK.COM> wayneck@tekig5.PEN.TEK.COM (Wayne Knapp) writes: ): >I wrote: ): >> The Mac ][ still can't animate worth a pint of sour owl shit. ): >> ): >Why? ): ): No blitter. ): ) )I see you are talking about the game style 2D animation and not the super )neat 3D animation. Well, the Mac II will have SERIOUS limitations on how much animation it can do in 3-d style, also (A La, Videoscape) because of its horribly overworked, **multiplexed**, brain damaged, poorly thought out, NuBus (Apple's version of it, at least). The fact is, the Mac II has some neat capabilties for high res color because it has "High res color" with a large pallette... BUT all that high res color represents a LOT of data and information, and even the 68020 is not up to that kind of job when it has to operate on such a cr*ppy bus (Again, not NuBus itself, but Apple's multiplexed version)... So while you can get very nice high res STATIC pictures on a Mac (with a good monitor, you will be hard pressed to see fast, full screen (read overscan, which I don't think the Mac II even supports, but don't know fer sure), animations. The Amiga is still tops in this area, ESPECIALLY when you put a 68020 on an Amiga, etc. Any flames can be sent to Apple :-)... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Chad 'The_Walrus' Netzer -> AmigaManiac++ "1.3 will let me boot from 'any' device, huh... Does that mean I can boot from NIL:?" 'Mac' is a registered trademark of Apple computer corp. and, as such, is copyright (C) Apple... (C)Apple... (Cr)Apple... Crapple!!!! 'PP Ale' is an anagram of 'Apple'... think about it.
andy@cbmvax.UUCP (Andy Finkel) (08/09/88)
In article <7947@cup.portal.com> Chad_The-Walrus_Netzer@cup.portal.com writes: >"1.3 will let me boot from 'any' device, huh... Does that mean I can boot from >NIL:?" First you'd have to equip your NIL: with the appropriate boot ROMS. Second, you'd have to make your NIL: into a filesystem device. (we don't boot from printers, either) :-) andy -- andy finkel {uunet|rutgers|amiga}!cbmvax!andy Commodore-Amiga, Inc. "If we can't fix it, it ain't broke." Any expressed opinions are mine; but feel free to share. I disclaim all responsibilities, all shapes, all sizes, all colors.
lbruck@eneevax.UUCP (Lewis S.Bruck) (08/09/88)
In article <4440@cbmvax.UUCP> andy@cbmvax.UUCP (Andy Finkel) writes: >In article <7947@cup.portal.com> Chad_The-Walrus_Netzer@cup.portal.com writes: >>"1.3 will let me boot from 'any' device, huh... Does that mean I can boot from >>NIL:?" > >First you'd have to equip your NIL: with the appropriate boot ROMS. >Second, you'd have to make your NIL: into a filesystem device. >(we don't boot from printers, either) Regarding the need for auto-boot ROMs...I have heard that it is possible to boot from RAD: which does not have ROMs (stuck memory bits aside :-) How does this work? Did I hear incorrectly? Thank you. Lewis Bruck lbruck@eneevax.umd.edu "Imaginos: A Bedtime Tale for the Children of the Damned"--Blue Oyster Cult
limonce@pilot.njin.net (Tom Limoncelli) (08/09/88)
[Someone asks if you will be able to boot of NIL:] [Andy Finkel replies only if they have autoboot ROMS, and that booting off printers is not supported.] Reaction #1: Do you think we'll be able to boot of printers in 1.4? Reaction #2: Whaddya mean? I boot off my Okidata all the time? (In fact, I've done that ever since I gave my Epson the boot!) Maybe what we need is comp.sys.amiga.humor. Possibly comp.sys.humor? Tom -- Tom Limoncelli Currently using crutches and in great pain, but still available at: limonce@pilot.njin.net "Remember all the great times we had?" tlimonce@drew.bitnet "Yeah... was that *you*?" tlimonce%drew@cunyvm.cuny.edu "The opinions expressed above are mine... just mine." (Hey Eric! Remember when I was so proud to finally be on a net and your reply was, "Bitnet? Ok... tell me when you get on a real net"? Well, look at the new signature! A real net! Right on the internet! See! See! It's also reachable via limonce@njin.rutgers.edu. Ok Eric? )
richard@gryphon.CTS.COM (Richard Sexton) (08/09/88)
In article <4440@cbmvax.UUCP> andy@cbmvax.UUCP (Andy Finkel) writes: >In article <7947@cup.portal.com> Chad_The-Walrus_Netzer@cup.portal.com writes: >>"1.3 will let me boot from 'any' device, huh... Does that mean I can boot from >>NIL:?" > >First you'd have to equip your NIL: with the appropriate boot ROMS. >Second, you'd have to make your NIL: into a filesystem device. >(we don't boot from printers, either) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Uhh, Andy, wanna think about that again ? I have this PostSctript printer sitting here, 2+MB ram, 68000, never gets turned off :-) -- Who are these ones that would lead us now ? richard@gryphon.CTS.COM {backbone}!gryphon!richard
ewhac@well.UUCP (Leo 'Bols Ewhac' Schwab) (08/09/88)
In article <5152@gryphon.CTS.COM> richard@gryphon.CTS.COM (Richard Sexton) writes: >In article <3093@tekig5.PEN.TEK.COM> wayneck@tekig5.PEN.TEK.COM (Wayne Knapp) writes: >>I wrote: >>> The Mac ][ still can't animate worth a pint of sour owl shit. >>> >>Why? > >No blitter. > Well, Bill Volk ported "The Dream Goes Berserk" over to the Mac-too (without *really* asking me first), and apparently it runs just great. After all, they've got a 68020 in there to bash all those bits around. Even with the braindamaged NuBus, it's still plenty fast enough for ANIM-type applications. In fact, I've been told that a screenshot of Berserk made the cover of MacWeek recently. Can anyone confirm this? _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ Leo L. Schwab -- The Guy in The Cape INET: well!ewhac@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU \_ -_ Recumbent Bikes: UUCP: pacbell > !{well,unicom}!ewhac O----^o The Only Way To Fly. hplabs / (pronounced "AE-wack") "Work FOR? I don't work FOR anybody! I'm just having fun." -- The Doctor
darin@nova.laic.uucp (Darin Johnson) (08/10/88)
In article <4440@cbmvax.UUCP>, andy@cbmvax.UUCP (Andy Finkel) writes: > In article <7947@cup.portal.com> Chad_The-Walrus_Netzer@cup.portal.com writes: > >"1.3 will let me boot from 'any' device, huh... > Second, you'd have to make your NIL: into a filesystem device. > (we don't boot from printers, either) > > andy Well, if you download the boot code into a PostScript machine, stick some autoconfig/boot thingies on your serial (or parallel if you want performance), then theoretically, it could work :-) (Of course, if you can afford the PostScript printer, then you can afford an autobooting drive controller...) Just some more nonsense from: Darin Johnson (...pyramid.arpa!leadsv!laic!darin) (...ucbvax!sun!sunncal!leadsv!laic!darin) "All aboard the DOOMED express!"
richard@gryphon.CTS.COM (Richard Sexton) (08/10/88)
In article <6776@well.UUCP> ewhac@well.UUCP (Leo 'Bols Ewhac' Schwab) writes: > Well, Bill Volk ported "The Dream Goes Berserk" over to the Mac-too >(without *really* asking me first), and apparently it runs just great. >After all, they've got a 68020 in there to bash all those bits around. Even >with the braindamaged NuBus, it's still plenty fast enough for ANIM-type >applications. Well for that price, I HOPE it's able to do that. The 1MB question is, however, how much of the CPU bandwidth is left over. The first time I saw bezerk! it was in a store on a vanilla A1000 tht was running a BBS and printing something out at the same time. My point (rather poorly made) was that I doubt the Mac ][ could keep up to my own graphics benchmark. I have a Director script which double buffer animates a 3 x 4" image (in this case a fish) across a screen. At 5 fish (640x400x3) everything is rosy. At 10 fish it starts to slow down. At 15 fish it really bogs. My point is, i doubt that, for all it's expense, the mac ][ could top 15 fish. -- Who are these ones that would lead us now ? richard@gryphon.CTS.COM {backbone}!gryphon!richard
elg@killer.DALLAS.TX.US (Eric Green) (08/12/88)
In message <5152@gryphon.CTS.COM>, richard@gryphon.CTS.COM (Richard Sexton) says: >In article <3093@tekig5.PEN.TEK.COM> wayneck@tekig5.PEN.TEK.COM (Wayne Knapp) writes: >>I wrote: >>> The Mac ][ still can't animate worth a pint of sour owl shit. >>> >>Why? > >No blitter. > Also because the video boards don't have enough memory for double-buffering, and Color QuickDraw is BOG SLOW (30 seconds to display a 256-color full-screen picture... sheesh!). Going straight to the hardware is, of course, faster, but still isn't super-fast.... and opens the compatibility can of worms. -- Eric Lee Green ..!{ames,decwrl,mit-eddie,osu-cis}!killer!elg Snail Mail P.O. Box 92191 Lafayette, LA 70509 MISFORTUNE, n. The kind of fortune that never misses.