jim@athsys.uucp (Jim Becker) (08/24/88)
This past weeks' Computer Chronicles show was all about *MULTI-TASKING*, a new and different concept created with the advent of Unix and now proudly incorporated into IBM and Apple products. There were displays of most all the upcoming platforms that we have heard of from Big Blue and Apple. There was *zero* mention of the Amiga, which does a better job than all the others (from what I can tell). How can the Amiga be skipped in this ?? Was CBM sleeping at the switch again ?? Three years after the Amiga made it's appearance and it still isn't noticed. Is something wrong going on ?? I haven't seen or heard of the Amiga outside of user groups for ages, maybe years... I guess that it just doesn't exist any more, or any less. Maybe this time next year Apple and IBM will introduce yet another new concept, Genlocked video !! We'll see.. "Can you say 'Manufacturer support', sure you can." -Jim Becker recovering ex-amiga addict & developer. You will learn.
dnelson@umbio.MIAMI.EDU (Dru Nelson) (08/24/88)
in article <120@tityus.UUCP>, jim@athsys.uucp (Jim Becker) says: > > This past weeks' Computer Chronicles show was all about *MULTITASKING* [... whole bunch of stuff ] > that we have heard of from Big Blue and Apple. There was > *zero* mention of the Amiga, which does a better job than Damn straight. Forget Apple's multitasking. On an IBM, well Xenix is the only real one. > all the others (from what I can tell). > How can the Amiga be skipped in this ?? Was CBM sleeping > at the switch again ?? Three years after the Amiga made > it's appearance and it still isn't noticed. Is something > wrong going on ?? I haven't seen or heard of the Amiga > outside of user groups for ages, maybe years... > I guess that it just doesn't exist any more, or any less. So what if the computer chronicles (which is a fairly biased, no content show) doesn't show the Amiga. So what if nobody talks about the Amiga. Who cares? Why worry about if people know if the Amiga is a great machine (which it is). If you get into that mind set, then you'll get worried about any product that another company puts out. Why should people start worrying when the Mac II comes out. If you like your machine, then enjoy it yourself or with other people who feel that way. If you ashamed of being looked down upon because you own an Amiga or hearing from people who own *BM's that the Amiga is a game machine, then it isn't possible to really enjoy the machine. Let the ignorant be ignorant, let the fools be fools. What does it matter if they start pushing the Genlock type devices on the Mac? You will know that it was on the Amiga first. Don't get me wrong, its good for people to know which computer is good in its field, but the computer will usually take care of itself if it is good. Look in any magazine for the video enthusiast. The product that stands out is the Amiga. So don't worry yourself, man. > Maybe this time next year Apple and IBM will introduce > yet another new concept, Genlocked video !! We'll see.. The Mac II has very good Genlocked video, the 400 vertical resolution helps a whole lot (c'mon Commodore/Amiga, get that thing working) > > "Can you say 'Manufacturer support', sure you can." Yes, but thats just worrying too much. Never do it too much to be ignorant of another companies edge, though. > -Jim Becker > recovering ex-amiga addict & developer. You will learn. What does this mean ^^^? -- Dru Nelson UUCP: (gould || uunet)!umbio!dnelson Miami, Florida MCI: dnelson Internet: dnelson%umbio@umigw.miami.edu
steve@dcdwest.UUCP (Steve Meloche) (08/24/88)
The local computer rag here in San Diego, ComputorEdge, just discovered this
neat new thing. . . computer animation! I grabbed myself a copy (they're free)
and looked for the article on the Amiga. There wasn't one. The editor's note
and all of the animation articles ignored our Amy completely. Actually, the
writer reviewing the Atari ST animation program mentioned that there were a few
isolated poorer quality programs (animation & 3D modeling) for the Amiga. This
is not to draw attention to the Amiga-ST wars but just to comment on another
example of seemingly intentional ignorance on behalf of the media. I hear that
the Amiga users here are giving them a hard time on their BBS now!
_____ _____ _____ Steven Meloche
| ` | ' ` | ' ITT Defense Communications Division
| | | San Diego, CA
__|__ | | steve!dcdwest!ucsdhub!...scott@applix.UUCP (Scott Evernden) (08/24/88)
In article <345@umbio.MIAMI.EDU> dnelson@umbio.MIAMI.EDU (Dru Nelson) writes: >in article <120@tityus.UUCP>, jim@athsys.uucp (Jim Becker) says: >> >> This past weeks' Computer Chronicles show was all about >*MULTITASKING* >[... whole bunch of stuff ] >> that we have heard of from Big Blue and Apple. There was >> *zero* mention of the Amiga, which does a better job than >So what if the computer chronicles (which is a fairly biased, no >content show) doesn't show the Amiga. The (rerun) show was about CDOS, OS/2 and A/UX, and not about general multitasking. I think that Computer Chronicles does a pretty reasonable job in covering most subjects. It's certainly a hell of a lot better than Victoria and The Computer Show. I actually manage to learn some stuff from this program. Several weeks back, CC reran its Amiga 2000 show, completely devoted to the Amiga and current software. I think this is pretty good exposure. Not to mention that Paul Schindler stands in front of an A1000 every week for his Software Review. -scott
jmdavis@ihlpm.ATT.COM (Davis) (08/24/88)
> Comments about Comp Cron show on multitasking minus Amiga. This has been brought up before. I think C/A should sue the producers of Comp Cronicles. It probably won't work, but it would sure get some air-play. -- ________________________________________ | Mike Davis | ..!att!ihlpm!jmdavis |_________________________
wayneck@tekig5.PEN.TEK.COM (Wayne Knapp) (08/24/88)
In article <120@tityus.UUCP>, jim@athsys.uucp (Jim Becker) writes: > > This past weeks' Computer Chronicles show was all about > *MULTI-TASKING*, a new and different concept created with > the advent of Unix and now proudly incorporated into IBM > and Apple products. > > There were displays of most all the upcoming platforms > that we have heard of from Big Blue and Apple. There was > *zero* mention of the Amiga, which does a better job than > all the others (from what I can tell). > > How can the Amiga be skipped in this ?? Was CBM sleeping > at the switch again ?? Three years after the Amiga made > it's appearance and it still isn't noticed. Is something > wrong going on ?? I haven't seen or heard of the Amiga > outside of user groups for ages, maybe years... Multitasking was around long before the Amiga. Still most people don't use multitasking that much. For the most part 99.99% of the things that people use multitasking for can be handled by desk accessories, which in fact is a type (albeit, limited) of multitasking. I think the major point behind Apple Mac's and maybe the new OS/2 IBM stuff is the fact that there is multitasking and EASY data interchange between programs. The Mac clipboard goes a long way towards changing the whole nature of computing. Of coarse this can also be done on the Amiga, IBM, ST etc., except no one else has made it so simple and built in as Apple has. Also remember that there are at least 4 or 5 Macs for every Amiga. Lord only knows how many IBM or clones. So by just covering IBM and Apple they probably cover over 90% of the viewers. They have limited air time and I doult if C= gives them much money. So what would you show if you were being honest with youself? Maybe if very Amiga owner sent in $5 to the show things would change. > > Maybe this time next year Apple and IBM will introduce > yet another new concept, Genlocked video !! We'll see.. Over the last 5 years I been in Japan at least 6 times, 3 of the times were over two week stays. The first long stay I had was around the end of 1984. At that time there were a lot of home computers in the stores that had built in Genlocking. More likely the computer could be locked on to an external video source than a full genlock, but it was common to see a CRT displaying TV with computer graphics overlaid on the TV broadcast. Now the Japanese have many video systems, not a lot of software but lots and lots of hardware toys. Maybe Amiga is just borrowing ideas from the Japanese. Maybe "new concept" should be replaced with "Japanese concept". > > "Can you say 'Manufacturer support', sure you can." > Apple, IBM. Yes C=, Atari. No (And these are the machines I own) Cheers, Wayne Knapp
wayneck@tekig5.PEN.TEK.COM (Wayne Knapp) (08/24/88)
In article <345@umbio.MIAMI.EDU>, dnelson@umbio.MIAMI.EDU (Dru Nelson) writes: > > So what if the computer chronicles (which is a fairly biased, no > content show) doesn't show the Amiga. Why is it that just because a show or mag. (like BYTE) gives low coverage to the Amiga is it considered biased and no content by you guys. I like byte, my Amiga and the computer chronicles. Just because I don't own an IBM doesn't mean I want turn my head away and not know what is going on in the IBM world. (Same for Apple) If the Amiga is to stay ahead people better know what is going on the rest of the World. Otherwise someday people will wake up and find they have been left behind. Wayne Knapp
phil@titan.rice.edu (William LeFebvre) (08/25/88)
Look folks: when stuff like this happens, the best thing to do about it is to write letters (electronic or paper) directly to the people responsible. Commodore probably won't do much about it, and the media will continue to ignore that which they know nothing about. If the machine's biggest fans---the users---write letters to the journals and programs that blatantly ignore Amy in the fields at which she excels, then maybe they will sit up and take notice. They certainly won't notice if no one tells them. So the next time some TV program or some computing journal comes out with a lie or a half-truth like "OS/2 is the first to bring the power of multitasking into the hands of the home users" or some such hype, write to them and correct them. That's the best way for them to find out. The letter doesn't need to be snide or "holier than thou", just factual and corrective. And if you don't know of an address for something like "Computer Chronicles", usually the local broadcast station that carried it will be able to tell you. Maybe it won't do any good, but it certainly can't do any harm. The only exception here, of course, is Pour-nell. There's no hope for him. William LeFebvre Department of Computer Science Rice University <phil@Rice.edu>
pds@quintus.uucp (Peter Schachte) (08/25/88)
In article <120@tityus.UUCP> jim@athsys.uucp (Jim Becker) writes: >This past weeks' Computer Chronicles show was all about >*MULTI-TASKING*...There were displays of most all the upcoming platforms >that we have heard of from Big Blue and Apple. There was >*zero* mention of the Amiga...How can the Amiga be skipped in this ?? Just thought you might be interested that in BYTE magazine, that den of IBM and occasional Apple articles, (July issue, preview of Sun386i), Senior Technical Editor Tom Thompson wrote (about the history of multitasking in microcomputers) (quoted without permission): "The Commodore Amiga came with a multitasking kernel from the start, but its baroque command set, low-resolution display, and lack of hardware memory protection makes using it a chore at best." Not exactly a glowing review, not quite fair or accurate, but we DID get mentioned. I won't bother to address his criticisms, we all know the Truth. -Peter Schachte pds@quintus.uucp ..!sun!quintus!pds
sdl@linus.UUCP (Steven D. Litvintchouk) (08/25/88)
In article <120@tityus.UUCP> jim@athsys.uucp (Jim Becker) writes: > This past weeks' Computer Chronicles show was all about > *MULTI-TASKING*,.... > There were displays of most all the upcoming platforms > that we have heard of from Big Blue and Apple. There was > *zero* mention of the Amiga,.... On the other hand, Computer Chronicles did devote one whole show to the Amiga. > Maybe this time next year Apple and IBM will introduce > yet another new concept, Genlocked video !! We'll see.. This has *already* happened. At the recent MacWorld Expo in Boston, the big push for the Macintosh was "desktop [electronic] presentation." Desktop video with genlocks, flying titles, etc., was prominently featured also. For once it was the Mac salespeople who had to explain to everybody why the (interlace) display flickered. The desktop video products available for the Mac appeared to be not as advanced as the products available for the Amiga, but with Apple's budget and sales, they should catch up fast.... Steven Litvintchouk MITRE Corporation Burlington Road Bedford, MA 01730 Fone: (617)271-7753 ARPA: sdl@mitre-bedford.arpa UUCP: ...{cbosgd,decvax,genrad,ll-xn,mit-eddie,philabs,utzoo}!linus!sdl "Those who will be able to conquer software will be able to conquer the world." -- Tadahiro Sekimoto, president, NEC Corp.
oconnor@nuke.steinmetz (Dennis M. O'Connor) (08/25/88)
An article by wayneck@tekig5.PEN.TEK.COM (Wayne Knapp) says:
] ... most people don't use multitasking that much.
Most people don't use computers that much. Most of China, for example.
( They don't have the opportunity.) So are computers without value ?
] For the most part 99.99% of the things that people use multitasking
] for can be handled by desk accessories, which in fact is
] a type (albeit, limited) of multitasking.
This is not true. Probably the most popular use of "multitasking"
is multi-user machines. VERY COMMON, yes ? I myself am ( at the time
of this posting ) logged onto my VAX 3 times. I edit in one
session, debug in another, monitor the system in a third.
( Of course, all three logins are from windows on my Sun3, which
I'm currently also reading news on ( excuse, the VAX wants input ...
I'm back ). I've got 7 windows up now, each a separate process.
And I'm running a CPU monitor, a WYSIWYG editor and a mail
monitor as background tasks. Do that with desk accessories! )
On my Amiga, the BENCHMARK Modula-2 system I use runs programs
under development in a seperate task. This is VERY convenient
for when a bug in the program clobbers the task : I just mouse
back to the editor and fix it, no problem. Do that with desk
accessories !
] Wayne Knapp
Wayne, if you think the MAC is some kinda great leap, you
are a naive coputer-person. Ever worked on a Symbolics LispMachine ?
Now THERE'S an advanced machine ! MAC-II's are DREK compared to them.
And they only cost, I think, $40K for a low-end model ?
Cheap at the price, if you're programmer enough to use it ! :-)
It's amazing to me when these PC-people claim some feature
is "great" or "not used" or whatever. These people seem to
never heard of the work done at Xerox, Symbolics or any of
a host of places. Get an education, people.
--
Dennis O'Connor oconnor%sungod@steinmetz.UUCP ARPA: OCONNORDM@ge-crd.arpa
"Never confuse USENET with something that matters, like PIZZA."iphwk%MTSUNIX1.BITNET@cunyvm.cuny.edu (Bill Kinnersley) (08/25/88)
[In "Re: Amiga is NOT a multi-tasking computer system !!", Wayne Knapp said:] : : Multitasking was around long before the Amiga. Still most people don't use : multitasking that much. For the most part 99.99% of the things that people : use multitasking for can be handled by desk accessories, which in fact is : a type (albeit, limited) of multitasking. : Our first multitasking microcomputer was an Altos, at least seven years old. It ran MP/M-II, a variant of CP/M with a true interrupt-driven multitasking kernel. What fun it was, with four users trying to ride one poor little overworked Z-80!
daveh@cbmvax.UUCP (Dave Haynie) (08/26/88)
in article <345@umbio.MIAMI.EDU>, dnelson@umbio.MIAMI.EDU (Dru Nelson) says: >> Maybe this time next year Apple and IBM will introduce >> yet another new concept, Genlocked video !! We'll see.. > The Mac II has very good Genlocked video, the 400 vertical resolution > helps a whole lot (c'mon Commodore/Amiga, get that thing working) Huh? You can't Genlock the Mac II's standard video (which is 480 lines, by the way, not 400). At Comdex I some a company selling a Genlock system for it, which is basically a reverse flickerFixer -- feed in 31kHz video, get NTSC out. It looked OK showing a static image, which is all they were displaying on the Mac. It also cost around $1500, which would buy you a nice A500 SYSTEM. What the Mac II does have is a sharp, non-interlaced, 640x480 display. You can get something similar on an Amiga with a flickerFixer today, or wait awhile for a chip upgrade. The Mac will still have more possible colors. > Dru Nelson UUCP: (gould || uunet)!umbio!dnelson > Miami, Florida MCI: dnelson > Internet: dnelson%umbio@umigw.miami.edu -- Dave Haynie "The 32 Bit Guy" Commodore-Amiga "The Crew That Never Rests" {ihnp4|uunet|rutgers}!cbmvax!daveh PLINK: D-DAVE H BIX: hazy "I can't relax, 'cause I'm a Boinger!"
darin@nova.laic.uucp (Darin Johnson) (08/26/88)
In article <345@umbio.MIAMI.EDU>, dnelson@umbio.MIAMI.EDU (Dru Nelson) writes: > So what if the computer chronicles (which is a fairly biased, no > content show) doesn't show the Amiga. So what if nobody talks about > the Amiga. Who cares? >... > If you ashamed of being looked down upon because you > own an Amiga or hearing from people who own *BM's that the Amiga is > a game machine, then it isn't possible to really enjoy the machine. If you sell more Amigas, software and/or hardware prices will go down. This should appeal to anyone's logic... Even if I become a hermit and could care less what other people own, eventually I may feel like buying something new that will cost twice what the same thing does on an IBM (look, no *'s). However, the big drawback to this theory is that when the number of machines of a certain type reaches critical mass, that the marketing types start selling software for $500. So sell a lot of machines, but not toooo many. Darin Johnson (...pyramid.arpa!leadsv!laic!darin) (...ucbvax!sun!sunncal!leadsv!laic!darin) "All aboard the DOOMED express!"
rchampe@hubcap.UUCP (Richard Champeaux) (08/26/88)
In article <3179@tekig5.PEN.TEK.COM>, wayneck@tekig5.PEN.TEK.COM (Wayne Knapp) writes: > > Multitasking was around long before the Amiga. Still most people don't use > multitasking that much. For the most part 99.99% of the things that people > use multitasking for can be handled by desk accessories, which in fact is > a type (albeit, limited) of multitasking. > Multitasking is not used only for running multiple programs. A lot of multitasking goes on in a multitasking operating system that you don't see but is important to improving the efficiency of a computer. I/O is well suited for multitasking. For example: Why should the program wait on the printer or console to finish it's output before continuing? Although many computers use interrupts to do these things, that method is limited. A multitasking enviroment also provides a consistant and easy interface to functions like these. From what I read in an article in BYTE about 2 years ago (written by a Mac developer who disliked the Mac's programming enviroment), the Mac's non-multitasking solution to the problem of "What do I do when I'm printing?" is to pass the address of a short routine to the driver that can be called whenever the driver is waiting for the printer. It seems to me that such a method would be very limited and greatly complicate software that wishes to use that feature. The Amiga's solution is to pass the data to a multitasking driver and continue on with the program. Any additional requests issued before the first is finished are queued up by the driver. If it is necessary wait for the I/O to finish, the status of the request can be checked. > > Cheers, > Wayne Knapp Rich Champeaux Clemson University
jax@well.UUCP (Jack J. Woehr) (08/26/88)
Right now I am logged into the WELL in one screen of my Amiga 1000 with 1.5M memory. In another screen is microEmacs in which I am editing a Prolog program for UNH Prolog, which is running in the Workbench screen. Also in the Workbench screen is a CLI window running the CShell. Also a Forth screen editor is open, as I examine a 32-bit metacompiled Laxen and Perry implementation by Pete Appelman ( P.APPELMAN on GEnie). Now, I am forced to use an AT at work. Would someone please tell me what desk accessory to buy that will allow this, along with the SUN-like mouse driver DMouse running at full speed on the blitter, on my AT? It would really make my workday a lot easier ... ******************* jax@well jax@chariot "Shave and a haircut ... 32 bits!" JAX on GEnie
jim@athsys.uucp (Jim Becker) (08/30/88)
From article <1825@kalliope.rice.edu>, by phil@titan.rice.edu (William LeFebvre): > Look folks: when stuff like this happens, the best thing to do about it > is to write letters (electronic or paper) directly to the people > responsible. > > William LeFebvre I did this -- to the Mercury News when they were giving Front Page space to the new OS/2 offerings. They did it two days running. I wrote a (typically) sarcastic letter about the entire situation, bringing in a number of good and relavant points. I sent it to the Senior Editor, and he suprised with a phone call !! It seems that he has an *Amiga* at home that his kids love and he finds useful... He asked for permission to reprint my letter, but never followed thru on it. It was quite a pointed letter, as I remember. -Jim Becker still Ex.