karl@sugar.uu.net (Karl Lehenbauer) (09/11/88)
In article <877@osupyr.mast.ohio-state.edu>, vkr@osupyr.mast.ohio-state.edu (Vidhyanath K. Rao) writes: > There is strong pressure (from employees, unions, legistatures etc) for > requiring detachable keyboards on all pcs/terminals bought henceforth. This > puts the 500 at a strong disadvantage. OK, think of the Amiga 500 as on oversized detachable keyboard that happens to have an Amiga in it. -- -- -- uunet!sugar!karl, +1 713 274 5184
ewhac@well.UUCP (Leo L. Schwab) (09/12/88)
In article <2605@sugar.uu.net> karl@sugar.uu.net (Karl Lehenbauer) writes: >OK, think of the Amiga 500 as on oversized detachable keyboard that happens to >have an Amiga in it. ...With zillions of cables coming out of it. #define zillions more than two When I was using my 64, I found placing it in my lap was rather awkward. I suspect the same is true of the 500. While it's nice that it's mobile, it's tough to beat a lightweight keyboard with just one coily cord coming out of it. _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ Leo L. Schwab -- The Guy in The Cape INET: well!ewhac@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU \_ -_ Recumbent Bikes: UUCP: pacbell > !{well,unicom}!ewhac O----^o The Only Way To Fly. hplabs / (pronounced "AE-wack") "Work FOR? I don't work FOR anybody! I'm just having fun." -- The Doctor
jojo@astroatc.UUCP (Jon Wesener) (09/12/88)
In article <2605@sugar.uu.net> karl@sugar.uu.net (Karl Lehenbauer) writes: >In article <877@osupyr.mast.ohio-state.edu>, vkr@osupyr.mast.ohio-state.edu (Vidhyanath K. Rao) writes: >> There is strong pressure (from employees, unions, legistatures etc) for >> requiring detachable keyboards on all pcs/terminals bought henceforth. This >> puts the 500 at a strong disadvantage. > >OK, think of the Amiga 500 as on oversized detachable keyboard that happens to >have an Amiga in it. This is my big complaint about the 500. I know, I know, for as cheap as it is I shouln't expect a detachable keyboard. Fine, I can relate to that. But I'd still like to be able to sit back with my feet on the desk and my keyboard in my lap once in a while. Has anyone come up with a way hook up a terminal to the serial port and get a remote shell running on it? Then how about a good vi like editor for it! I personally prefer a dumb terminal for editting instead of the normal amiga screen. They're usually easier to read (and have a detachable keyboard) Just my oppinions so don't get in a tizzy, --j -- ... {seismo | harvard } ! {uwvax | cs.wisc.edu} ! astroatc!jojo "Some people should die, it's just unconscious knowlege"
rminnich@super.ORG (Ronald G Minnich) (09/13/88)
In article <7087@well.UUCP> ewhac@well.UUCP (Leo 'Bols Ewhac' Schwab) writes: >In article <2605@sugar.uu.net> karl@sugar.uu.net (Karl Lehenbauer) writes: >>OK, think of the Amiga 500 as on oversized detachable keyboard that happens to >>have an Amiga in it. > ...With zillions of cables coming out of it. >#define zillions more than two One thought i had was to get another A500 case (price, anybody?) and saw it in two and move my A500 keyboard into it. THere is a REALLY SMALL cable from the A500 keyboard to the main board, so it should be no big deal. This was a common hack with the heath h*9 series of terminals/computers, only there people REALLY DID saw their computer in two. #define REALLY SMALL (around eight wires or so) Anyway, the A500 with just a little chainsaw work could have a detachable keyboard. In fact, maybe my brother could use the chainsaw when i was done ... visit the 'authorized repair shop' and have a little discussion... ron
eachus@mitre-bedford.ARPA (Robert Eachus) (09/13/88)
In article <6162@dayton.UUCP> joe@dayton.UUCP (Joseph P. Larson) writes: > >I'm on the verge of building a box for my 500 keyboard and making it a >detached keyboard. Has anyone else done something like this? It looks like >I'd just need to extend the ground wire and that one cable that connects to >the mother board -- no big deal. Comments, anyone? -Joe The recent talk on the net convinces me that there is room in the Amiga marketplace for four new models as follows: (model numbers are hypothetical with no necessary relation to fact or Commodore) Amiga 500P Portable version of Amiga 500 with combination battery pack/battery charger/power supply to replace the current power supply unit, and a choice of flat screen displays. Amiga 1200 An Amiga 2000 keyboard (or a detachable Amiga 500 keyboard) which plugs into a case containing the Amiga 500 PC board, two 3-1/2 drives and a heftier power supply. The case should have room (and power) for a 5-1/4 drive or hard disk and expansion to 3 Meg of memory. Amiga 3000 A 30 MHz 68030 machine with 2 Meg of (32-bit wide) chip memory and 4 Meg of (32-bit wide) fast memory standard. Support for Zorro II boards on what is now the SLOW bus. Graphics modes should include 256 colors from 256K possible, and all "normal" Amiga modes at Multisync speeds. NTSC (or PAL) compatibility not even considered nice, VGA compatibility might be. The portable would sell to all Amiga owners who travel, the 1200 would fill the niche of (and replace) the 1000, and the 3000 is of course for the best of the best of us. (Or those to whom money is no object.) If all of them were announced next week which one would I buy? Hmmmm. I desperately need the portable for trips, the 1200 would allow me to retire my 1000 (or at least let my daughter have it), and the 2000 I'm typing this on is starting to get bogged down when I try to do too much at once. Maybe I'll get all of them! :-) Actually, there is a major truth buried in this. I have two Amigas, my brother has two Amigas, do you have two Amigas? There is a substantial segment of the Amiga owner community who would like to replace as many of their computers as possible with Amigas. Unlike some markets, the Amiga community is not saturated at one per customer at any one time. Robert I. Eachus with STANDARD_DISCLAIMER; use STANDARD_DISCLAIMER; function MESSAGE (TEXT: in CLEVER_IDEAS) return BETTER_IDEAS is...
ncreed@ndsuvax.UUCP (Walter Reed) (09/13/88)
In article <7087@well.UUCP> ewhac@well.UUCP (Leo 'Bols Ewhac' Schwab) writes: >In article <2605@sugar.uu.net> karl@sugar.uu.net (Karl Lehenbauer) writes: >>OK, think of the Amiga 500 as on oversized detachable keyboard that happens to >>have an Amiga in it. > ...With zillions of cables coming out of it. >#define zillions more than two > When I was using my 64, I found placing it in my lap was rather >awkward. I suspect the same is true of the 500. While it's nice that it's >mobile, it's tough to beat a lightweight keyboard with just one coily cord >coming out of it. Ok, I have the soulution to this! :-) :-) What you do is make a hardware module that plugs into all the connectors on the back of a 500 (or an L shaped one that plugs into the expansion connector too.) This module converts all the ports into one fiber optic cable. This cable has power wires in it too and is curly! On the other end of the cable, you have a fiber optic -> port converter box (and optional zorro II expansion box) and there you go! Portable keyboard (with lots of smarts!) Some enterprising person could probably make this for, oh, about the price of an a2000... Not too bad... (-: (-: -- ------ Walter Reed ------ + uunet!ndsuvax!ncreed or ncreed@ndsuvax.BITNET "There's no point in being + or ncreed@plains.NoDak.edu grown up if you can't be + childish sometimes!" Dr. Who + USnAIL: 925 9th Ave W. West Fargo, ND 58078
mikes@lakesys.UUCP (Mike Shawaluk) (09/13/88)
In article <721@super.ORG> rminnich@metropolis.UUCP (Ronald G Minnich) writes: >In article <7087@well.UUCP> ewhac@well.UUCP (Leo 'Bols Ewhac' Schwab) writes: >One thought i had was to get another A500 case (price, anybody?) >and saw it in two and move my A500 keyboard into it. THere is a REALLY >SMALL cable from the A500 keyboard to the main board, so it should be no >big deal. This was a common hack with the heath h*9 series of >terminals/computers, only there people REALLY DID saw their computer >in two. >#define REALLY SMALL (around eight wires or so) > Anyway, the A500 with just a little chainsaw work could have a >detachable keyboard. > In fact, maybe my brother could use the chainsaw when i was done ... >visit the 'authorized repair shop' and have a little discussion... >ron Actually, there is probably an easier way to get a detachable keyboard; simply buy an A2000 (well, make that B2000) keyboard, and a 5-pin DIN jack, and kludge the DIN jack into your A500 someplace, and hook it up in place of the internal wiring between the A500 internal keyboard & the motherboard. This is assuming, of course, that the keyboard decoder & interface is the same for 2000's and 500's, which it oughta be. However, there is one minor caveat; a "spare" A2000 keyboard may be a significant fraction of the price of an A500... - Mike Shawaluk (now with his very own account!!!)
rminnich@super.ORG (Ronald G Minnich) (09/14/88)
In article <1020@lakesys.UUCP> mikes@lakesys.UUCP (Mike Shawaluk) writes: >Actually, there is probably an easier way to get a detachable keyboard; simply >buy an A2000 (well, make that B2000) keyboard, and a 5-pin DIN jack, and >kludge the DIN jack into your A500 someplace, and hook it up in place of the oh man, that is assuming so many things that may not hold, i think it just won't work. Actually, my suggestion (chainsaw aside, that is for the repair shop only) was mostly serious. If you ever take an A500 apart you will see it is a real simple (and clean) design. You could actually take the little metal box (that is the amiga) out of the case and put it somewhere else. But i still think the best is get the original equipment- virgin A500 plastic box- so that you can have a box just for the keyboard. You can pop open the box and pop out the keyboard in about five minutes. So, anybody from C= wanna give a quote on the price for the plastic case? if it's under $25 or so it might be worth it! ron
daves@hpcilzb.HP.COM (Dave Scroggins) (09/14/88)
> Amiga 500P Portable version of Amiga 500 with combination battery >pack/battery charger/power supply to replace the current power supply >unit, and a choice of flat screen displays. Another thought about a "PORTABLE" AMIGA -- A band could use it as a MIDI controller. I just talked to someone who bought one of those MAC things to use on stage. He DID say he LIKED the AMIGA. So why did he buy a Mac??? Because it's MUCH easier to carry to the "Gig" since it's all in one little box. Me ???? I'll stick with my AMIGA!! Dave S.
davidc@pyr.gatech.EDU (David Carter) (09/14/88)
In article <1020@lakesys.UUCP> mikes@lakesys.UUCP (Mike Shawaluk) writes: >Actually, there is probably an easier way to get a detachable keyboard; simply >buy a ... B2000 keyboard, and a 5-pin DIN jack ... >This is assuming, of course, that the keyboard decoder & interface is the >same for 2000's and 500's, which it oughta be. > >However, there is one minor caveat; a "spare" B2000 keyboard may be a >significant fraction of the price of an A500... > > - Mike Shawaluk Significant indeed! The dealers around here want $125 for a B2000 keyboard. I asked about this on the net a few months ago, and didn't get any replies. But my own investigation has found: the A500 and B2000 keyboard printed circuit boards =look= identical (except the B2000 keyboard has empty holes where the Power and Drive LEDs would go). That is, physically they should be interchangeable. However, pressing control-A-A on a B2000 produces a "shutdown" keyboard message; the A500 generates a hard reset signal, and does not produce the "shutdown" message. While a B2000 keyboard might still be able to reset an A500 (I'm about to try this), I'd personally prefer to keep the hard reset capability. So the "even easier" way to make the A500 keyboard detachable is to get an empty keyboard case from a B2000. You'll still need the connectors and a coiled cable (7 conductors plus shield; the A500 has 8, but one is a no- connect). This isn't really "easier" because, as far as I've been able to determine, Commodore doesn't sell just the B2000 keyboard case as a replacement part. However, if somebody wanted to order, say, 50 or 100 of them, they might be interested. So the question for the net is: how many of you would be interested in buying an empty B2000 plastic keyboard case. Please send mail to me, and I will post the count. If there is sufficient interest, I will pursue the idea of ordering a bunch and selling them at cost. Also, anyone who knows where to get a 7-conductor-plus-shield coiled cable, please tell me. (and no, PC keyboard extension cables don't have that many conductors) David Carter davidc@pyr.gatech.edu
sneakers@heimat.UUCP (Dan "Sneakers" Schein) (09/14/88)
In Message <39828@linus.UUCP>, eachus@mitre-bedford.ARPA (Robert Eachus) writes: > Amiga 500P Portable version of Amiga 500 with combination battery >pack/battery charger/power supply to replace the current power supply >unit, and a choice of flat screen displays. Of course this unit has 1 3.5" floppy, a 40meg built in HD, autobooting from 1.3 ;-), min 3 meg memory, built in 2400 modem, external SCSI port, and all the ports currently on the 500. Oh yea id prefer a built in battery with external power supply/charger. Guess what im saying is a "Laptop" and not just a "Portable". > The portable would sell to all Amiga owners who travel, the 1200 >would fill the niche of (and replace) the 1000, and the 3000 is of >course for the best of the best of us. (Or those to whom money is no >object.) Or to those who find a laptop to be a welcome (needed?) addition to their line of hardware. I use a Zenith MS-DOS (I know... boo... hiss...) so I can spend some time in the living room with the family instead of in front of heimat all the time. It works well for telecommunications (has a built in 2400 baud modem), writing 'C' code or just reading the net ;-) But id trade it in on a LapTop Amiga today yet! > Actually, there is a major truth buried in this. I have two >Amigas, my brother has two Amigas, do you have two Amigas? There is a >substantial segment of the Amiga owner community who would like to >replace as many of their computers as possible with Amigas. Unlike >some markets, the Amiga community is not saturated at one per customer >at any one time. Boy am I glad I just sold my Amiga 1000 because I had 3 Amigas and I don't want to be over the maximum limit. Todays average family (or is that Amiga family ;-) has: 2 cars 1 truck 1 child (boy or girl) 1 pet (dog or cat) 3 phones (1 cordless) 2 phone numbers 4 tv's 2 Amiga's Couple of hundred (thousand ?) dollars of old and outdated computer and electronic items. Oh yea, all this is more of a dream than a request. I don't want to start a series of replies explaining why my dream laptop is just a dream. Ok? -- Dan "Sneakers" Schein {alegra|amiga|rutgers|uunet}!cbmvax!heimat!sneakers Sneakers Computing 2455 McKinley Ave West Lawn PA 19609 Call: BERKS AMIGA BBS 24 Hrs - 3/12/2400 Baud Disclaimer: Any opinions expressed are 40 Meg -=- 215/678-7691 those of Sneakers Computing Of course heimat is an Amiga, doesn't everyone run UUCP & UseNet on an Amiga?
MJB@cup.portal.com (09/14/88)
Does the A500 keyboard have the same matrix as the A2000 (<<which is IBM
compatible, right?)? If it does, why not just put in a standard (IBM/A2000)
keyboard connector and a slide switch (to enable the ext. keybd and disable
the built-in keybd.)? Is there room? Would it work? Why doesn't C-A do this?
- Martin Brown -kodiak@amiga.UUCP (Robert R. Burns) (09/15/88)
In article <6397@pyr.gatech.EDU> davidc@pyr.gatech.EDU (David Carter) writes: ) ... However, pressing control-A-A on a B2000 produces a )"shutdown" keyboard message; the A500 generates a hard reset signal, and )does not produce the "shutdown" message. While a B2000 keyboard might )still be able to reset an A500 (I'm about to try this), I'd personally )prefer to keep the hard reset capability. The A500 and B2000 keyboard roms are different. The B2000 sends two reset keycodes to the keyboard.device and waits either for a handshake to those codes, or a timeout interval (around 1/4 minute, I think) before pulling on the reset line. This was designed to let critical system code hold off reset in the middle of an operation -- the trackdisk.device is a client of this service but I'm not sure what it does. The A500, on the other hand, does not send these reset keycodes or wait around: it pulls on the reset "right away" (it's actually a capacitor bleed circuit). The only time you'll notice a difference (because you never reset in the middle of a disk write, do you?) is if the processor is so lost that the keyboard handshake is held off -- have you ever hit a dead B2000 and thought "I thought I hit CTRL-AMIGA-AMIGA correctly, humm, well, I'll try it agai... Oh! there it goes...". That's why the timeout exists in the B2000 keyboard. )So the "even easier" way to make the A500 keyboard detachable is to get )an empty keyboard case from a B2000. You'll still need the connectors and )a coiled cable (7 conductors plus shield; the A500 has 8, but one is a no- )connect). I've got my A500 keyboard extended w/ 3' of ribbon cable and no ground strap connection. Works fine. (Your mileage may vary. Warrenties not included.) )This isn't really "easier" because, as far as I've been able to determine, )Commodore doesn't sell just the B2000 keyboard case as a replacement part. I admit, I've got an inside source. I did use it for quite a while sans case but finally we had a B2000 keyboard go defective so I snagged the case. I wish I'd had a better tool than a drill and an xacto to cut those led holes. I had to nibble a small tab of the metal on the A500 keyboard, but overall am satisfied with the results. (Now if only my Return key was more reliable). We use A500s here for 1.4 testing because they are easier to instrument w/ a state analyzer and they've got the SOTS connector that our old development hardware connects to. - Kodiak -- | / _ _|' _ |/ Bob Burns . . . . .---. . |/ (_)(_)|(_\|\ {pyramid|oliveb|cbmvax]! / \ |\ /| | | __ / \ |\ Kodiak \ amiga!kodiak _______/ A \| \/ |_|_|___|/ A \ | \ Software "dedicated to the science of fun"\_________
darin@nova.laic.uucp (Darin Johnson) (09/15/88)
In article <2605@sugar.uu.net>, karl@sugar.uu.net (Karl Lehenbauer) writes: > In article <877@osupyr.mast.ohio-state.edu>, vkr@osupyr.mast.ohio-state.edu (Vidhyanath K. Rao) writes: > > There is strong pressure (from employees, unions, legistatures etc) for > > requiring detachable keyboards on all pcs/terminals bought henceforth. This > > puts the 500 at a strong disadvantage. Umm, just what does this mean? How can employees/unions place restrictions on things like this? Is a constitutional ammendment in the works? Boycotts? Darin Johnson (...pyramid.arpa!leadsv!laic!darin) (...ucbvax!sun!sunncal!leadsv!laic!darin) "All aboard the DOOMED express!"
jojo@astroatc.UUCP (Jon Wesener) (09/16/88)
In article <341@laic.UUCP> darin@nova.laic.uucp (Darin Johnson) writes: >In article <2605@sugar.uu.net>, karl@sugar.uu.net (Karl Lehenbauer) writes: >> In article <877@osupyr.mast.ohio-state.edu>, vkr@osupyr.mast.ohio-state.edu (Vidhyanath K. Rao) writes: >> > There is strong pressure (from employees, unions, legistatures etc) for >> > requiring detachable keyboards on all pcs/terminals bought henceforth. This >> > puts the 500 at a strong disadvantage. >Umm, just what does this mean? How can employees/unions place restrictions >on things like this? Is a constitutional ammendment in the works? >Boycotts? It means people don't like using non-detachable keyboards and are complaining to their bosses so much so that when it comes time to buy new computers, the bosses will make sure they have detachable keyboards. Sort of like workers demanding smoke-free environments. Non-detachable keyboards are a real pain, just like high-profile keyboards were a pain (which I have heard are now illegal in Europe, but know only as rumor, because of wrist strain.) It's very easy for employees/unions to do this especially if they can convince their employers it's affecting their productivity. I know a lot of people who do their typing on MS-DOS machines just because the screens are easier to read and the keyboards are detachable and then ship their code over to their a500 to do the compiles. That's what I do on a nice UNIX box and prefer it immensely to inputting on my a500 keyboard. Besides, the escape-key is in a stupid place. Alas, my favorite keyboard was a zenith AT-style keyboard and IBM had to go and screw it up with the 101-keyboard. Ever see where they put the CTRL-key on that pig? Their human-factors group must have 6 inch long fingers on one hand and 2 inches on the other. --j -- ... {seismo | harvard } ! {uwvax | cs.wisc.edu} ! astroatc!jojo "They weren't just any women... They were women fresh from Hell, with wisps of devil-smoke curling behind their ears and unholy vapors hiding in their tight leather dresses, looking for Mr. Right."
peter@sugar.uu.net (Peter da Silva) (09/17/88)
Two questions: (1) Do they also require detachable low-profile keyboards for typewriters? (2) Why didn't IBM stick with the industry standard kayboard that they had invented (Selectric-style) for the IBM-PC? (Not a flame, I really want to know) -- Peter da Silva `-_-' peter@sugar.uu.net Have you hugged U your wolf today?
toweri@clinet.FI (Jukka Lindgren) (09/18/88)
[Eat-Me] In article <6397@pyr.gatech.EDU> davidc@pyr.gatech.EDU (David Carter) writes: >In article <1020@lakesys.UUCP> mikes@lakesys.UUCP (Mike Shawaluk) writes: >>Actually, there is probably an easier way to get a detachable keyboard; >>simply buy a ... B2000 keyboard, and a 5-pin DIN jack ... >>This is assuming, of course, that the keyboard decoder & interface is the >>same for 2000's and 500's, which it oughta be. >> etc... Maybe this is a little bit going to a side track, but anyway: Does anyone out there have any experience about making (a long) extension wire for A1000 keyboard? I'm talking about a length of three to four meters. Basically there shouldn't be anything tricky about it. In fact, Amiga Hardware Reference Manual by Addison-Wesley writes: >The keyboard plugs into the computer via a four-conductor cable similar >to a telephone handset coily cord (in fact, a telephone handset cable >may be substituted in a pinch)... But they don't say a thing about maximum length for that cable! Someone just might think that it doesn't make any difference. Unfortunately it isn't so simple: As the keyboard transmits data serially to the main unit, it is done with a speed of 17 kbits/sec. At such speed there just isn't much time for check-and-re-check, therefore it looks to me that a cable four meters long might collect inductive, faulty, signals, or the real signal might get spurious. (ref. round-shaped Cray-supercomputers, in order to minimize cable-lengths) Now, do I manage with a simple telephone cable, or do I have to use shielded cable, or (please not!) was it absolutely insane idea to begin with? If I get a definite YES or NO, I will post it for others to see too. Thank you, in advance! =============================================================================== # ELM: toweri@clinet.UUCP | Any opinions expressed contain # # SNAIL: don't bother... | *The Absolute Truth* # # | Therefore no disclaimers can be made # ===============================================================================
ncreed@ndsuvax.UUCP (Walter Reed) (09/18/88)
In article <2644@sugar.uu.net> peter@sugar.uu.net (Peter da Silva) writes: >Two questions: > (2) Why didn't IBM stick with the industry standard kayboard that > they had invented (Selectric-style) for the IBM-PC? (Not a flame, > I really want to know) A friend that works at IBM told me that they did that because the PC keyboard was made/designed by the COMPUTER department and not by the TYPEWRITER department. IBM almost has as much red tape as the government you know :-) It seems that the PC keyboard was the computer sections first real try with a keyboard... -- ------ Walter Reed ------ + uunet!ndsuvax!ncreed or ncreed@ndsuvax.BITNET "There's no point in being + or ncreed@plains.NoDak.edu grown up if you can't be + childish sometimes!" Dr. Who + USnAIL: 925 9th Ave W. West Fargo, ND 58078
ejkst@cisunx.UUCP (Eric J. Kennedy) (09/19/88)
In article <1192@astroatc.UUCP> jojo@astroatc.UUCP (Jon Wesener) writes: > I know a lot of people who do their typing on MS-DOS machines just >because the screens are easier to read and the keyboards are detachable >and then ship their code over to their a500 to do the compiles. Funny. When I was writing code for an IBM PC/AT I did the opposite. I couldn't bear to use that primative machine any more than I had to, so I did my coding on the Amiga and transferred it to the IBM to do the compiles. -- ------------ Eric Kennedy ejkst@cisunx.UUCP