ewhac@well.UUCP (Leo 'Bols Ewhac' Schwab) (05/04/87)
[ Single-tasking? Just say no! ] In article <2250@tekgvs.TEK.COM> jerem@tekgvs.UUCP (Jere Marrs) writes: > That is most interesting. I just received two disks from Aegis >Development (SONIX, a wonderful program!) and I placed them in my external > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Really? You think so? Hrmph. Here are some of the things I perceive to be shortcomings in the program. I've used it for about a total of three hours. o No 1/32 notes. o No "Note time expand" feature (to compensate for above). o No triplets. o No slurs. (Can be faked in instruments, though.) o No *TRUE* ties. o No measure counter during music play. This makes it difficult to find where the bugs are in your score. o Score doesn't scroll during music play. o All songs on the data disk sound terrible (subjective). Conversely, here are things about SONIX that I think are good: o EXCELLENT manual (with index). o Music doesn't falter, no matter what else is going on. o FM synth in software. o The song on the boot disk. o Substitutes cleaned-up default font ("clean") on startup. However, I can't get past the lack of 1/32 notes. I have at least two scores with loads of them that I've wanted on the Amiga for ages. And I *still* can't plug them in. FLAME_ON The lack of decent music software for the Amiga is inexcusable. I have here a program for my poor old 2MHz 8080-based SOL-20 that does three-voice music, and is more powerful than many currently available music programs for nearly all machines. Will Harvey has a lot to answer for. Unless someone did it before him, he created the first commercially available music program that let you place notes on the score. Easily, the most tedious method imaginable for entering music, especially on a computer. Come on! Computers are *supposed* to make things easier for us. My dinky SOL-20 music program can do: o 1/64 notes o Triplets o Note articulation (stacatto, etc.) o Arbitrary key signature o Independent transposition of voices o Arbitrary repeats of any part o Generalized dotted notes o Frighteningly simple entry method (subjective) Now, I will grant you that the music "source" code looks like transmission line noise to the uninitiated obsever, and that the sound quality is not wonderful (what do you want from the INTE buss line?). But the point is, my music program is *TEN YEARS OLD*, and still beats the stuffing out of many other so-called "professional" music systems, feature for feature. What's more, this ten-year-old program will run in **4K OF MEMORY!!** So. Am I living in the dark ages? Am I expecting too much? Should I go beat my head against a wall? Or should I translate this program to the Amiga myself? Someone write a good music program. Please. I have a number of scores I want to move over. FLAME_OFF _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ ________ ___ Leo L. Schwab \ /___--__ The Guy in The Cape ___ ___ /\ ---##\ ihnp4!ptsfa!well!ewhac / X \_____ | __ _---)) ..or.. / /_\-- -----+==____\ // \ _ well ---\ ___ ( o---+------------------O/ \/ \ dual ----> !unicom!ewhac \ / ___ \_ (`o ) hplabs -/ ("AE-wack") ____ \___/ \_/ Recumbent Bikes: "Work FOR? I don't work FOR The _O_n_l_y Way To Fly! anybody! I'm just having fun."
robinson@renoir.Berkeley.EDU (Michael Robinson) (05/04/87)
In article <2990@well.UUCP> ewhac@well.UUCP (Leo 'Bols Ewhac' Schwab) writes: > Will Harvey has a lot to answer for. Unless someone did it before >him, he created the first commercially available music program that let you >place notes on the score. Easily, the most tedious method imaginable for >entering music, especially on a computer. HEAR, HEAR!!! My god, writing music with a mouse is second only to the pixel on/off toggle switch in the 1.2 font editor as an example of idiotic creeping gadgetization. > > So. Am I living in the dark ages? Am I expecting too much? Should >I go beat my head against a wall? Or should I translate this program to the >Amiga myself? No, you are not expecting too much. If you do translate the program, I'll buy it. > Someone write a good music program. Someone write a USEABLE music program, please. > ________ ___ Leo L. Schwab > ___ ___ /\ ---##\ ihnp4!ptsfa!well!ewhac ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "If you study the logistics and heuristics of the mystics, You will find that their minds rarely move in a line" "The Ranger isn't going to like it, Yogi." Mike Robinson USENET: ucbvax!ernie!robinson ARPA: robinson@ernie.berkeley.edu
tenney@well.UUCP (Glenn S. Tenney) (05/05/87)
In article <2990@well.UUCP> ewhac@well.UUCP (Leo 'Bols Ewhac' Schwab) writes: > ... > The lack of decent music software for the Amiga is inexcusable. I >have here a program for my poor old 2MHz 8080-based SOL-20 that does >three-voice music, and is more powerful than many currently available music >programs for nearly all machines. > ... Back in 1976 and 1977 I started and ran Software Technology Corp. The program Leo is talking about was called The Software Technology Music System and was written by Jon Bokelman. This company was tied in with the now defunct Processor Technology, and I still have 100's of Music System packages in my garage. It was (actually, still is since Jon enhanced it and it's being sold by Tandy as Orchestra 80 if I recall correctly) one hell of a program: It sold for about $24 and included a little S-100 board kit to bring out the interrupt line. It included a line oriented editor, score compiler (using ascii files) and music player. -- Glenn Tenney UUCP: {hplabs,glacier,lll-crg,ihnp4!ptsfa}!well!tenney ARPA: well!tenney@LLL-CRG.ARPA Delphi and MCI Mail: TENNEY As Alphonso Bodoya would say... (tnx boulton) Disclaimers? DISCLAIMERS!? I don' gotta show you no stinking DISCLAIMERS!
chin-lon@puff.WISC.EDU (Chin-long Cheng) (05/06/87)
> > Someone write a USEABLE music program, please. > Would someone like to elaborate on what a good musical interface is in a mouse oriented system? I am very interested. clc # ARPA: chin-lon@puff.wisc.edu # CSNET: chin-lon%puff.wisc.edu@csnet-relay # UUCP: ...!{ihnp4,hplabs,seismo,topaz,etc.}!uwvax!puff!chin-lon
robinson@renoir.Berkeley.EDU (Michael Robinson) (05/06/87)
In article <755@puff.WISC.EDU> chin-lon@puff.WISC.EDU (Chin-long Cheng) writes: >Would someone like to elaborate on what a good musical interface >is in a mouse oriented system? I am very interested. Just for starters, it has to allow the user to input the score using the keyboard. NO ONE would tolerate a word processor that required the user to pull each individual character out of a menu and then place it in the text using the mouse pointer. So why do the people who write music programs design the interface in exactly that manner? I guess because they don't have to use them themselves. The mouse should be used for things mice are good at, like selecting and moving blocks of information (text, score, whatever). Editing a score should not be several times more slow and difficult than editing text. ># UUCP: ...!{ihnp4,hplabs,seismo,topaz,etc.}!uwvax!puff!chin-lon ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "If you study the logistics and heuristics of the mystics, You will find that their minds rarely move in a line" "The Ranger isn't going to like it, Yogi." Mike Robinson USENET: ucbvax!ernie!robinson ARPA: robinson@ernie.berkeley.edu
hah@isum.intel.com (Hans Hansen) (05/07/87)
In article <755@puff.WISC.EDU> chin-lon@puff.WISC.EDU (Chin-long Cheng) writes: >Would someone like to elaborate on what a good musical interface >is in a mouse oriented system? I am very interested. > >clc What mouse oriented system. Just because there is an odd piece of hardware hanging off the side of your computer does NOT mean that it has to be used to the detriment of useful tools. The mouse MUST be considered as just one of the input tools, NOT 'the' input tool. Please don't abuse it, just use it where it is the most effecient input tool. Hans
jonesjg@dg_rtp.UUCP (05/11/87)
In article <646@omepd> hah@isum.UUCP (Hans Hansen) writes: >In article <755@puff.WISC.EDU> chin-lon@puff.WISC.EDU (Chin-long Cheng) writes: >>Would someone like to elaborate on what a good musical interface >>is in a mouse oriented system? I am very interested. >> >>clc >What mouse oriented system. Just because there is an odd piece of hardware >hanging off the side of your computer does NOT mean that it has to be used >to the detriment of useful tools. The mouse MUST be considered as just one >of the input tools, NOT 'the' input tool. Please don't abuse it, just use >it where it is the most effecient input tool. > >Hans I agree using the mouse as the only method to put notes on the staff is overkill. I was happy to see that the memetics midi pro-studio allowed input from the keyboard utilizing the function keys for the notes time. I haven't had the time to try it though, I usually just record the song by playing it on the midi attached keyboard. Yes what I am saying is that the Pro-studio records from the midi keyboard in real time. Unfortunatly the information is stored in an ascii file not on the grand staff nor have I found any option for printing out the music. Hopefully someone will integrate all the nice features of the current music packages into one easy to use and powerful program, of course it will take 2 meg to get it running ;-) -- Greg Jones Data General, RTP, NC ...!seismo!mcnc!rti!dg_rtp!jones
rsine@nswc-wo.arpa (09/26/88)
In one of the messages I saw where a person named Meyers wrote:
> I [heart] SONIX!
My question is why? Are you doing something like sampling a whole piece and
using Sonix to play it back? It's the only reason I can think of that someone
would love Sonix. It didn't take me long to realize the shortcomings of Sonix
(but it is good for the novice or beginning musician). Just to list a few
of the things I can't deal with about Sonix:
1. Inability to tie notes between measures.
2. I do a lot of triplets - you ever try to do triplets with Sonix?
3. I'm not Zappa or anything but it would be nice to do a 32nd note. (don't
feel bad DMCS can't keep up with it either at any reasonable tempo).
4. Only eight grand staffs. Sure the Amiga can only use four voices but if
it supports MIDI why the limitation?
5. Chords, why not let me put a chord on one staff? Gee, that drives me nuts.
6. This one I'm not sure about but, I don't think you can beam. If you're
gonna print the score and try to read it (or worse yet have someone else
read it) the going gets tough.
7. No quins. Okay I don't use quintuplets myself but what if I did want to.
8. What about tempo changes? It's been a long time but either you can't do
a tempo change or you can't change keys, in the middle of a score. One
of those two is true, both are a hinderance.
Well, I'm sure that's enough for now. We can discuss it more off-line, I
like to talk music. I'm at rsine@nswc-wo.arpa.
Ranssd@sugar.uu.net (Scott Denham) (09/28/88)
In article <4229@louie.udel.EDU>, rsine@nswc-wo.arpa writes: (clip, clip) > would love Sonix. It didn't take me long to realize the shortcomings of Sonix > (but it is good for the novice or beginning musician). Just to list a few > of the things I can't deal with about Sonix: I got Sonix for just that reason - it looked like a good tool for a beginner (me). Unfortunately I found that I ran into things I couldn't do rathjerer more quickly than I had expected. Some of these things can be circumvented or approximated, but figuring out how to "fool" Sonix into putting out a particular sound may be better suited to someone with more knowledge of what sort of things might work. So in this sense I found it failed me as a beginner, too. Within it's limits, though, it is a good tool. I can only hope that Aegis will pull things together and get into a position to let Mark Riley take another shot at it and polish up a few of the rough edges. > 1. Inability to tie notes between measures. This one got me almost immediately, upon trying to work a collaboarator;s original score into Sonix. She wasn't impressed with the results, nor was I. > > 6. This one I'm not sure about but, I don't think you can beam. If you're > gonna print the score and try to read it (or worse yet have someone else > read it) the going gets tough. My biggest dissapointment with Sonix - given the way the staff looks on the screen, the printout is pretty tacky; and the size is all wrong for any serious use. I've used it to generate little things for my 6-year old to practice, but it doesn't stretch much beyond that. From what I've heard, that area is advantage DMCS. > Ran Scott Denham