karl@sugar.uu.net (Karl Lehenbauer) (09/21/88)
There was a bit in InfoWorld today about Next Inc's Next Machine. It has some stuff I particularly want for my "Next Amiga", which may have to be a Next Machine. Specifically, if the report is true, every Next Machine shipped will include a 300 MB read/write/erase optical disk drive. They will also contain a 25-MHz 68030 (!), 4 MB RAM, ethernet, SCSI and MIDI interfaces, Mach Unix, X-windows and Display Postscript, all in ROM. It also comes with a 1220X960 or so gray-scale display, including monitor, with a color graphics board being developed by Pixar, which if you've been really out of touch for a few years and don't know, is a LucasFilm spinoff, now at least partially owned by Steve Jobs, that has received tumultous acclaim for their computer animation work and markets a dedicated computer animation system. The report indicated that the system includes a lot of software to produce animation and other never-before-supported-by-the-vendor- in-a-general-purpose-system stuff. I also heard a tantalizing rumor that the Next Machine has 16-bit sampled stereo DMA audio with a playback rate of something like 44.1 KHz, giving it studio-quality audio capabilities if true, and is of particular personal interest. Steve Jobs reconfirms himself as a great visionary (even if he did blow it in some ways with the Mac) to have included all that stuff in the base system. The result is that the least-common-denominator machine, the one almost all developers have to develop for, has all this blow away stuff that one can count on having there in each and every machine sold. (This has been one of the great things about the Amiga, too, in its market, that it has all those graphics and sound capabilities in every machine.) The other is that by bundling all that stuff, he gets price breaks on the hardware, falling production costs due to the volume, plus lower end user costs are since if the stuff were aftermarket items, they'd have to have higher margins. Think of the games! (1/2 :-) The price is $6000, with a 40% educational discount to be available. While that clearly prices it far beyond an Amiga, it seems to logically extend a lot of the capabilities of the Amiga, has an incredible amount of stuff for the money, and defines a niche that I would have liked (or would like) to see Commodore enter with some kind of "Super Amiga." A cost comparison to the Mac II was easy, since IW ran an article in the same issue about Apple's price increases. A 4 MB RAM, 40 MB disk, 14 MHz (?) 68020-based Mac II costs $8100, without a display adapter, monitor or 300 MB optical disk, ethernet, MIDI, Unix, software. As an aside, they have certainly "fixed" Unix; that is, considering Mr. Jobs' insistence on user-friendliness, I imagine that have made Unix operation really turnkey, (a cheap 300 MB distribution medium helps a lot), including invisibilizing and streamlining system administration. If Next, Inc. can deliver the machine in quantity at that price, they're going to blow the Mac II, the high-end PS/2s and ATs, and all the Suns and Apollos right out of the water. Disclaimer: I'm just this guy, you know. -- -- uunet!sugar!karl, Unix BBS (713) 438-5018
root@sbcs.sunysb.edu (root) (09/22/88)
In article <2658@sugar.uu.net>, karl@sugar.uu.net (Karl Lehenbauer) writes: [ description deleted ] > If Next, Inc. can deliver the machine in quantity at that price, they're going > to blow the Mac II, the high-end PS/2s and ATs, and all the Suns and Apollos > right out of the water. $6000 sounds like very aggresive price for a machine with the mentioned capabilities, esp if he is selling for $6000 - 40% = $3600 to Universities. I would bet that his list price is actually at least $10K with 40% discount giving $6K to universities. After all he buys ram, 68030, ethernet, packaging from the same sources as Sun, Apollo, etc do. I also find it pretty hard to believe that his Unix is going to be up to what Sun provides now (v4.0), unless he bought it from them. By now Sun must have spent a thousand or so programmer years on their software base. Anyways it does sound like a nice machine (at any price < $12K) so I will probably want one :-) > -- uunet!sugar!karl, Unix BBS (713) 438-5018 Rick Spanbauer SUNY/Stony Brook
kagle@batcomputer.tn.cornell.edu (Jonathan C. Kagle) (09/22/88)
In article <2658@sugar.uu.net> karl@sugar.uu.net (Karl Lehenbauer) writes: >There was a bit in InfoWorld today about Next Inc's Next Machine. As there has been in several other issues. It seems that InfoWorld is trying to beat the other publications with information about this machine, but the specs keep changing as the machine keeps getting postponed. Even _Time_ has been pulled into Jobs's game, publishing specifications based on rumors. for this machine, which seems to be always coming out NeXT month... >... every Next Machine >shipped will include a 300 MB read/write/erase optical disk drive. This would be a breakthrough, especially since these units have yet to be delivered in quantity. >They will also contain a 25-MHz 68030 (!), 4 MB RAM, ethernet, SCSI >and MIDI interfaces, All quite reasonable in a machine that will have to compete with Apollos and SUNs, and Macintosh IIs. >Mach Unix, X-windows and Display Postscript, all in ROM. Whoa! According to my calculations, that would add up to >15 Megabytes of ROM. As for the wisdom of putting the OS in ROMs on such a new machine... >It also comes with a 1220X960 or so gray-scale display, including monitor, >with a color graphics board being developed by Pixar, which if you've been >really out of touch for a few years and don't know, is a LucasFilm spinoff, >now at least partially owned by Steve Jobs, that has received tumultous >acclaim for their computer animation work and markets a dedicated computer >animation system. Loyal comp.sys.amiga readers know of Pixar's work. Unfortunately, they seem to have problems with programs that run on a much less expensive machine :-). Still, Pixar has significant experience with 3-D graphics and animation. If such a board (and software) does come out, it could have a significant impact upon Silicon Graphics and other high-end 3-D workstation manufacturers. >... >I also heard a tantalizing rumor that the >Next Machine has 16-bit sampled stereo DMA audio with a playback rate of >something like 44.1 KHz, giving it studio-quality audio capabilities if true, >and is of particular personal interest. This is also an interesting possibility, though it would increase the complex- ity of the circuitry enormously, especially if you want to avoid interference (witness the noisy Apple //gs output). >Steve Jobs reconfirms himself as a great visionary Or at least a great marketer for getting all of this free publicity... Remember the hype around Steve Jobs's other brainchild, the Lisa? >... >Think of the games! (1/2 :-) > >The price is $6000, with a 40% educational discount to be available. Less accurate than pre-introduction specifications are pre-introduction price lists. >A cost comparison to the Mac II was easy, since IW ran an article in the same >issue about Apple's price increases. A 4 MB RAM, 40 MB disk, 14 MHz (?) >68020-based Mac II costs $8100, without a display adapter, monitor or 300 MB >optical disk, ethernet, MIDI, Unix, software. Didn't Jobs sign an agreement of non-competetition with Apple after he hired so many of their employee? >As an aside, they have certainly "fixed" Unix; that is, considering Mr. Jobs' >insistence on user-friendliness, I imagine that have made Unix operation >really turnkey, (a cheap 300 MB distribution medium helps a lot), including >invisibilizing and streamlining system administration. If he actually did this, everybody in the industry would be amazed. People have been trying to make a user-friendly *nix for years. As for "invisibilizing and streamlining system administration" this has also proved to be extremely difficult. >If Next, Inc. can deliver the machine in quantity at that price, they're going >to blow the Mac II, the high-end PS/2s and ATs, and all the Suns and Apollos >right out of the water. > >Disclaimer: I'm just this guy, you know. >-- >-- uunet!sugar!karl, Unix BBS (713) 438-5018 -Jonathan ______________________________________________________________________________ Jonathan C. Kagle kagle@tcgould.tn.cornell.edu kagle@crnlthry.BITNET KTLY@cornella.ccs.cornell.edu KTLY@cornella.BITNET KTLY@vax5.ccs.cornell.edu KTLY@crnlvax5.BITNET The Cornell Theory Center claims no responsibility for the ravings of the above.
cmcmanis%pepper@Sun.COM (Chuck McManis) (09/23/88)
A couple of observations from someone who has seen many, many, computer
announcements and such.
A) Every new machine from a respected source develops something of a
rumor-feature list. The NeXT machine is no exception. I remember
the same sort of hoopla surrounding the PC jr announcement. The
speculation on *that* machine was that it would be 286 based come
with great color graphics, have the full 640K of RAM and cost less
than a $1000. And look what showed up :-). This is not to say that
the NeXT machine *won't* have everything it is rumored to have, heck
I'm just as interested as the NeXT guy (:-) so many pun opportunities)
but I am a firm believer in the realities of what some of the things
that are in the NeXT box cost now, and could concieveably cost in the
future and frankly it doesn't add up. Fortunately, we'll finally see
it next month. (Did you hear the story about how Jobs wanted to
have October dedicated to the machine? He try to get the governer
proclaiming October as NeXT month but was told California couldn't
very well go calling October, November now could it? It would confuse
to many people. :-))
B) The grass is always greener two years down the road.
--Chuck McManis
uucp: {anywhere}!sun!cmcmanis BIX: cmcmanis ARPAnet: cmcmanis@sun.com
These opinions are my own and no one elses, but you knew that didn't you.dillon@CORY.BERKELEY.EDU (Matt Dillon) (09/24/88)
>shipped will include a 300 MB read/write/erase optical disk drive. >They will also contain a 25-MHz 68030 (!), 4 MB RAM, ethernet, SCSI >and MIDI interfaces, Mach Unix, X-windows and Display Postscript, all in >ROM. It also comes with a 1220X960 or so gray-scale display, including monitor, If they stick it in ROM the machine will fail... Really, these days even the microcode for the procesors on larger machines isn't in ROM! -Matt
charles@hpcvca.HP.COM (Charles Brown) (09/28/88)
>The HP Integral had: (stuff deleted) > Built-in printer and LCD display. Just a nit: The display is Electro-Luminescent. At the time the Integral was developed, there were no LCD displays large enuf to display 24x80 of text. Of course, it also is capable of simple B/W graphics. (Actually that's B/O for Black and Orange :-) When I bought my Amiga1000, my decision was between the Integral, the Atari and the Amiga. The Atari lost because it is not multi-tasking or expandable. The Amiga came out less expensive than the Integral and offered color. The Integral offered Unix. The Integral also offered better reliability than the Amiga, but I didn't know that at the time. Charles Brown Not representing my employer.
karl@sugar.uu.net (Karl Lehenbauer) (09/29/88)
In article <2658@sugar.uu.net>, I wrote an article about the Next machine based on reports in InfoWorld and elsewhere. Remember, everybody, that the posting was liberally dosed with caveats like: > If Next, Inc. can deliver the machine in quantity at that price, ... In article <1617@sbcs.sunysb.edu>, root@sbcs.sunysb.edu (root) writes: > $6000 sounds like very aggressive price for a machine with the > mentioned capabilities, esp if he is selling for $6000 - 40% = $3600 > to Universities. I would bet that his list price is actually at > least $10K with 40% discount giving $6K to universities. After > all he buys ram, 68030, ethernet, packaging from the same sources > as Sun, Apollo, etc do. I also find it pretty hard to believe that > his Unix is going to be up to what Sun provides now (v4.0), unless > he bought it from them. By now Sun must have spent a thousand or so > programmer years on their software base. Anyways it does sound like > a nice machine (at any price < $12K) so I will probably want one :-) Integration: One of the lessons learned in the Apple II and forgotten in the Mac. The success of the II a lot was because of all the functionality on the single motherboard (which was a lot at the time: CPU, memory, display with text and two graphics modes, cassette in and out, speaker out, keyboard, and a joystick port) which required multiple boards (and connects...and support circuitry) on its competitors. It is cheaper to build stuff in that to make it available as add-ons. Consider an Ethernet add-on board versus Ethernet on the motherboard. On the motherboard, one adds an ethernet chip and minimal support circuitry. There is no bus interface, connector, card, card edge, bus support circuitry required. Further, again, *volume* is incredibly greater when the capability is built into the machine. If Next comes with Ethernet, development and other fixed costs are amortized over all the machines rather than the many fewer boards that would be sold as add-ins. If one designed a computer to include a digital signal processor and appropriate support circuitry, the DSP could be used as a modem, for speech recognition, sound digitization, speech/audio/music generation and as a satellite processor for specific DSP functions, like doing FFTs, as well as, probably, a lot of stuff no-one has thought of, yet. To summarize, it is cheaper to bundle all the stuff together rather than sell it separately and a clever design can leverage upon the presence of these components by using them for multiple purposes. October 12th (the apparently firm announcement date) quickly approaches. This week's InfoWorld had a bit more on the 300 MB drive...let's hope the machine is everything claimed for the price offered, eh? -- -- "Insert the disk at your own risk." -- Firesign Theater -- uunet!sugar!karl, Unix BBS (713) 438-5018
jburnes@pnet02.cts.com (Jim Burnes) (10/03/88)
I certainly hope Jobs can deliver at this price. It will be revolution.
If he can bring the price down even further (around $2-3000 list) it
will be an even greater revolution
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