disd@hubcap.UUCP (Gary Heffelfinger) (09/27/88)
Well, we'd always suspected it, but now it has been confirmed. Witness
the following, reprinted without permission from "Chaos Manor" in the
October 1988, Byte ragazine:
Comments within []'s are mine.
"The game of the month would have been F/A-18 Interceptor from
Electronic Arts for the Amiga, but there was a problem. Once in a
while someone gets lucky and gets to play the game, but most of us
can't get past the crazy code-wheel 'security' system. It's far
more complicated than the game itself [sure, Jerry]. I might even
prefer copy protection, except that Electronic Arts is the outfit
that had a scheme for the Commodore 64 that caused the machine to
bash its disk drives out of alignment [true]. Heaven knows what
they could do to an Amiga. [Hmmm. And just what are you implying
here, Jerry?] We'll tell you more about F/A-18 Interceptor when
when we can find a cryptographer to help us with the code wheel."
Geez! How tough is it to spin a few wheels? Annoying, maybe, but
rocket science it is not.
In addition to the above burbling, he continued his unfounded statements
about how the Amiga is not stable enough to recommend to unsophisticated
users. Maybe, but I think he's underestimating the average computer
user. A writer friend of mine, knows nothing about CLI, but he get's
his work done just fine on the Amiga using Word Perfect. No loss of
data in the year or so that he's been using it. (Though, I admit that
we had a close call. :-)
To his credit, he did make the following statement:
"I did notice that at my party people stood in line to play with the
Amiga."
That tell ya somethin', Jerry?
--
Gary Heffelfinger --- Employed by, but not the mouthpiece of
Clemson University.
---=== Amiga. The computer for the best of us. ===---cmcmanis%pepper@Sun.COM (Chuck McManis) (09/27/88)
In article <3060@hubcap.UUCP> disd@hubcap.UUCP (Gary Heffelfinger) writes: [Complains about Jerry Pournelles troubles with F/A-18 and draws the following conclusion.] >Geez! How tough is it to spin a few wheels? Annoying, maybe, but >rocket science it is not. Actually, his comments are quite to the point and show up a really poor policy on the part of EA. Here, their biggest competition is Jet from SubLOGIC and *that* isn't copy protected. So what's their problem? The fact that Jerry has trouble running a text editor without some serious handholding is well known. The problem is to assume he is unique. He isn't. Really stupid people use computer programs every day. There is no reason that it has to be any more difficult for them than it does for the rest of us computer "pros". Now EA reads his column and maybe Trip Hawkins says "Gee, we really got blasted for using the codewheel, maybe we shouldn't copy protect these things." And what is important is that when Jerry says it, 200,000 stupid people read it and say "I won't buy that program, my buddy Jerry can't even figure out the copy protection on it." And if EA could even sell 100,000 copies of F/A-18 they would be wildly happy. So Jerrys comment is a couple of orders more powerful than you or I bitching about copy protection. And that is a *good* thing. Hey, I don't agree with Jerry's opinions anymore than you do but it actually is a pretty good reflection on how the less understanding computer community views the Amiga. And if you can make it clear to Jerry, then you can make it clear to a lot of other people and *that* will increase sales of the Amiga. --Chuck McManis uucp: {anywhere}!sun!cmcmanis BIX: cmcmanis ARPAnet: cmcmanis@sun.com These opinions are my own and no one elses, but you knew that didn't you.
barrett@ektools.UUCP (Chris Barrett) (09/27/88)
Apparently Jerry hasn't played MS-DOS 4.0, talk about problems!!!
disd@hubcap.UUCP (Gary Heffelfinger) (09/28/88)
From article <70319@sun.uucp>, by cmcmanis%pepper@Sun.COM (Chuck McManis): > In article <3060@hubcap.UUCP> disd@hubcap.UUCP (Gary Heffelfinger) writes: > [Complains about Jerry Pournelles troubles with F/A-18 and draws the following > conclusion.] > >>Geez! How tough is it to spin a few wheels? Annoying, maybe, but >>rocket science it is not. > > Actually, his comments are quite to the point and show up a really poor > policy on the part of EA. Here, their biggest competition is Jet from Indeed. I don't disagree with this assessment of EA. I'm constantly annoyed about how they seem to go out of their way to cripple otherwise wonderful programs. (Case in point. I installed Bard's Tale II on my hard disk last night. It runs real well from the HD, but upon exiting the program, I get munged. I'm forced to reboot. Not a guru, but not a useable situation either.) But, given Jerry's past antipathy regarding the Amiga, any statement he makes about software that runs on the Amiga is taken as a condemnation of the machine and not necessarily of the author of the software. It's become too easy to bash the machine, even though it's often the software that's at fault. I just get tired of his attitude. And while I have no wish to defend EA, I feel that his statement does more to reinforce the belief that he has nothing between his ears, than it does to criticise the authors of the software. > SubLOGIC and *that* isn't copy protected. So what's their problem? The > fact that Jerry has trouble running a text editor without some serious > handholding is well known. The problem is to assume he is unique. He isn't. > Really stupid people use computer programs every day. There is no reason True, but I think the skills necessary to operate the device are well within the abilities of your average stupid person. The thing that annoys me the most about his diatribe is that he says that the "copy protection" is hard to use. But nowhere does he explain what it is about the code wheel that confuses him. He merely states that it's harder than the game. Which is an exaggeration that does nothing but confirm our suspicions, and cause the Pournellians to continue to say "By Golly, I'll never buy one of those evil Omega computers. Jerry says I shouldn't." > that it has to be any more difficult for them than it does for the rest of > us computer "pros". Now EA reads his column and maybe Trip Hawkins says > "Gee, we really got blasted for using the codewheel, maybe we shouldn't > copy protect these things." And what is important is that when Jerry says > it, 200,000 stupid people read it and say "I won't buy that program, my > buddy Jerry can't even figure out the copy protection on it." And if > EA could even sell 100,000 copies of F/A-18 they would be wildly happy. > So Jerrys comment is a couple of orders more powerful than you or I > bitching about copy protection. And that is a *Good* thing. Hey, I don't Yes, I hope Mr Hawkins is made aware of it. I just wish that Amiga wouldn't get bashed in the process. And yes, Jerry's views on copy protection are among the few things that I agree with him about. > agree with Jerry's opinions anymore than you do but it actually is a > pretty good reflection on how the less understanding computer community > views the Amiga. And if you can make it clear to Jerry, then you can > make it clear to a lot of other people and *that* will increase sales > of the Amiga. Are there really lots more like him out there? I guess my view of the user community is skewed towards the smart end. I deal with both computer professionals and computer amateurs of varying levels and I just don't see that kind of stupidity. It's so fishy to me that the same guy who can write a whole column praising a widget for his clone which he toils over for weeks to set up, dismisses, in a few ill conceived sentences, a relatively easy-to-use game. And just so you know this, Chuck, I'm not at all wanting to argue with you about this. I know that you don't love Jerry any more than the rest of us do. I just needed to bitch. I don't like to be in the dark about inaccurate things that are said about the Amiga, and I thought that others might be interested in his statements. Gary -- Gary Heffelfinger --- Employed by, but not the mouthpiece of Clemson University. ---=== Amiga. The computer for the best of us. ===---
ssd@sugar.uu.net (Scott Denham) (09/28/88)
In article <3060@hubcap.UUCP>, disd@hubcap.UUCP (Gary Heffelfinger) writes: > Well, we'd always suspected it, but now it has been confirmed. Witness > the following, reprinted without permission from "Chaos Manor" in the > October 1988, Byte ragazine: Jerry's inane ramblings on F18 omitted....... > In addition to the above burbling, he continued his unfounded statements > about how the Amiga is not stable enough to recommend to unsophisticated > users. Maybe, but I think he's underestimating the average computer > user. .... > > That tell ya somethin', Jerry? > My two girls, ages 3 and 6, have little to no trouble with the Amiga. Granted, they aren't CLI wizards, but the 6 year old understands the Workbench constructs just fine and can get the thing up and running and into the game or utility of her choice with no trouble at all. I've got it!!! ...... Let's send Jerry back to Kindergarten!! The elementary school down the street has a great copmputer program for small minds... or maybe that's limited to small in *stature*. Scott Denham
peter@sugar.uu.net (Peter da Silva) (09/28/88)
In article <70319@sun.uucp>, cmcmanis%pepper@Sun.COM (Chuck McManis) writes: > And what is important is that when Jerry says > it, 200,000 stupid people read it and say "I won't buy that program, my > buddy Jerry can't even figure out the copy protection on it." Since these 200,000 people aren't buying Amigas anyway, why the hell should we care whether or not they listen to Jerry? -- Peter da Silva `-_-' peter@sugar.uu.net Have you hugged U your wolf today?
lishka@uwslh.UUCP (Fish-Guts) (09/28/88)
In article <70319@sun.uucp> cmcmanis@sun.UUCP (Chuck McManis) writes: >In article <3060@hubcap.UUCP> disd@hubcap.UUCP (Gary Heffelfinger) writes: >[Complains about Jerry Pournelles troubles with F/A-18 and draws the following > conclusion.] > >Actually, his comments are quite to the point and show up a really poor >policy on the part of EA. Here, their biggest competition is Jet from >SubLOGIC and *that* isn't copy protected. So what's their problem? The >fact that Jerry has trouble running a text editor without some serious >handholding is well known. The problem is to assume he is unique. He isn't. >Really stupid people use computer programs every day. There is no reason >that it has to be any more difficult for them than it does for the rest of >us computer "pros". I do not think the problem is that Mr. Pournelle is really stupid, or that there are a lot of "really stupid people [using] computer programs every day." Just because someone does not use a computer does not make them automatically stupid. After working for a lab where very intelligent Microbiologists have to cope with raw Unix every day, I have found that if anyone is to be called stupid, it should be the people who made the decision to present such a complex programmer-oriented system to those without computer skills. My point: there are very many bright and intelligent people out there who have a hard time using computers. Just like there are many bright and intelligent computer people who find it difficult fixing a bicycle (although Leo and myself are probably not among them). Just because someone has trouble using a machine does not make them stupid. Now, what makes Mr. Pournelle so damned frustrating is that he is not *really* a computer professional; instead, he just acts like one. I am beginning to think that he knows very little about computers, which is a bit contradictory to the fact that writes a looooong column in a major PC/Mac magazine (i.e. Byte). And what makes it all worse is that his ego is so large that he assumes if *he* cannot get something to work (or if someone will not do it for him), then it must not be worth the time of day (this is *not* the kind of attitude that made Unix popular!). No, I do not think that his problem is stupidity, but rather that he thinks he is intelligent in the ways of computers. >--Chuck McManis >uucp: {anywhere}!sun!cmcmanis BIX: cmcmanis ARPAnet: cmcmanis@sun.com >These opinions are my own and no one elses, but you knew that didn't you. -- Christopher Lishka ...!{rutgers|ucbvax|...}!uwvax!uwslh!lishka Wisconsin State Lab of Hygiene lishka%uwslh.uucp@cs.wisc.edu Immunology Section (608)262-1617 lishka@uwslh.uucp ---- "...Just because someone is shy and gets straight A's does not mean they won't put wads of gum in your arm pits." - Lynda Barry, "Ernie Pook's Commeek: Gum of Mystery"
joe@dayton.UUCP (Joseph P. Larson) (09/28/88)
Personally, I suspect Dr. Pournelle is a little brighter than he lets on in his articles. I suspect he's quite capable of handling the code-a-wheel. However, he also knows just how to say things to achieve some effect. One would be a little naive to believe he actually had a problem using it. But he was annoyed enough that he wrote what he wrote. I mean, come on! Anyone who can co-author brainstorms such as "Oath of Fealty" can handle a little computer technology. But his article probably DOES reflect what the average Joe out there is going to think. Those stupid code-a-wheels are a pain in the butt. And when he complains that the Amiga crashes from time-to-time, he's exactly right. It *does* crash every now and then. Manx "z" (at least version 3.4A) has bugs in its garbage collection, for instance, that gives you reproducable crashes. The average guy out there isn't going to be real understanding when his 1-hour edit session was just wasted 'cause the computer crashed. And users are dum. Dum dum dum. I had to walk a woman through a reboot over the phone yesterday. I told her to type "2 space". She does this then says "Should I use the numbers over the letters?" (Rather than the keypad numbers). Notice she didn't say that she had already typed anything nor that the screen had changed because of it. So I say "That's always better". (Some system software doesn't handle keypad in keypad mode on our machine.) Well, option 2.2 in the menu she was running is "Enter Multi-User mode". Dum. Dum. Dum. When dealing with users, one needs to speak very slowly, using tiny little words, and it has to work EXACTLY (to the keystroke) the way you tell them. So people can take offense at what Dr. Pournelle writes, but when it comes right down to it, I haven't heard anyone quote anything from his article that was that far off the wall with what the users are going to feel. Don't bitch about how dum he is but maybe think "Gee, maybe he's right. Maybe it SHOULD be a little easier to install such-and-such." If you want the average Joe out there to want an Amiga, it can't crash. It has to be easy to install and should work right the first time. My Amiga crashes. My Amiga has a cronic hardware problem in the video cable (I have to bend the pins a little bit every few weeks so they make good contact into the back of the Amiga). How many messages have come across the net in the past few weeks where people are having weird resets, disk problems, memory problems, Fat Agnus chips not seated correctly, etc etc? Don't bitch about what he says. Fix it. -Joe -- UUCP: rutgers!dayton!joe (Feed my Dayton Hudson Department Store Company ATT : (612) 375-3537 picture Joe Larson/MIS 1060 (standard disclaimer...) collection) 700 on the Mall Mpls, Mn. 55402
cmcmanis%pepper@Sun.COM (Chuck McManis) (09/28/88)
In article <70319@sun.uucp>, (Chuck McManis) I wrote: -> And what is important is that when Jerry says -> it, 200,000 stupid people read it and say "I won't buy that program, my -> buddy Jerry can't even figure out the copy protection on it." In article <2696@sugar.uu.net> (Peter da Silva) writes: ->Since these 200,000 people aren't buying Amigas anyway, why the hell should ->we care whether or not they listen to Jerry? I never said you should care, only that he is the figure head of a much larger herd. The bottom line being that if you listen to what he says and make a program that he can understand and use, then you will have a better product for it. That's all --Chuck McManis uucp: {anywhere}!sun!cmcmanis BIX: cmcmanis ARPAnet: cmcmanis@sun.com These opinions are my own and no one elses, but you knew that didn't you.
disd@hubcap.UUCP (Gary Heffelfinger) (09/29/88)
From article <6206@dayton.UUCP>, by joe@dayton.UUCP (Joseph P. Larson): > > Personally, I suspect Dr. Pournelle is a little brighter than he lets on Er.. sorry, *Dr.* Pournelle. Easy to forget that sometimes. > in his articles. I suspect he's quite capable of handling the code-a-wheel. > However, he also knows just how to say things to achieve some effect. One > would be a little naive to believe he actually had a problem using it. But > he was annoyed enough that he wrote what he wrote. Not naive, ticked off. If it annoys him, he should say that it annoys him. To tell his readers that it is hard to use, is lying to them. Yes, it is obnoxious, and yes, it should not be there, but no, he should not tell his readers that it's harder than the game. It's neither clever, nor true. And it's condescending to his readers. > > I mean, come on! Anyone who can co-author brainstorms such as "Oath of > Fealty" can handle a little computer technology. But his article probably Haven't read the "Oath..." but I feel that it's Larry Niven who makes their collaborations as good as they've been. But that is more a subject for rec.arts.sf-lovers. > DOES reflect what the average Joe out there is going to think. Those stupid I think it's insulting to the "average Joe" that he thinks that Joe can't handle a code wheel of this nature. "Listen kiddies, I know you're all morons and take everything I say as gospel, so I'm gonna tell you that you won't be able to handle something so tough as a code wheel. Therefore, you shouldn't even consider this product." > code-a-wheels are a pain in the butt. And when he complains that the Amiga > crashes from time-to-time, he's exactly right. It *does* crash every now Certainly the Amiga crashes from time to time. No one denies that. But every other microcomputer I have ever used, has crashed from time to time, and some of these are quite popular machines. The Amiga does *not* crash often enough to warrant the kind of condemning bad-mouthing we've seen from Jerry. > and then. Manx "z" (at least version 3.4A) has bugs in its garbage collection, > for instance, that gives you reproducable crashes. The average guy out there > isn't going to be real understanding when his 1-hour edit session was just The average Joe isn't going to be using Z either. :-) I've gotten no reports from my writer friend about Word Perfect guruing and loosing hours of his work. Now I admit that DOS's nasty way of teaching one to patiently wait for a drive light to turn off before removing the disk, can be a problem, but I don't think the Apple's solution of not putting an eject button on the drive is the right one either. [Some comments about how dumb users are, omitted] Yes, I've run across my share of "dumb" users. Most of them were perfectly capable of using the computer given enough time and education. > > So people can take offense at what Dr. Pournelle writes, but when it comes > right down to it, I haven't heard anyone quote anything from his article that > was that far off the wall with what the users are going to feel. Don't bitch Ah. But that's exactly what I don't like about "Chaos Manor", it Assumes that it knows exactly what users are going to feel. It thinks for the user. It doesn't give the user the chance to form his/her own opinions. > about how dum he is but maybe think "Gee, maybe he's right. Maybe it SHOULD > be a little easier to install such-and-such." If you want the average Joe out That is what Jerry should be doing. And I often agree with him when he says that product so-and-so has a feature that is not right, would the product's manufacturer please remedy this situation. What I *don't* want to see, are the kind of statements so common in his column, like "The Skeezix word processing system is trash because it doesn't use ^s to save my document, like good old Write used to do." or "Don't buy the Plingsnort XL monitor because it's not nearly as good as the mumble-mumble monitor I used on my old pal Zeke." > there to want an Amiga, it can't crash. It has to be easy to install and > should work right the first time. My Amiga crashes. My Amiga has a cronic I'm sorry that you're having hardware problems. We all know that C= has a few quality control problems. I wish that they all could be as rock solid as my old 1000 was and as my new 2000 appears to be. On the subject of ease of installation, I agree with you that they should all be as painless as possible, but in this real world they are not all so easy. Apple, with its Mac, has gone a long way towards making things easier for the average Jane, but the Clone world has not come so far. If one wishes to blast one computer because things are less than user friendly, than one should blast all computers who have this problem. I don't see this blasting coming from Dr. P. I have spent more time scratching my head over the arcane ways of the Clones than I have with the Amiga. > Don't bitch about what he says. Fix it. -Joe Do you think you can get me a monthly gig with Byte? I'd be happy to try to fix it. Sorry. Don't mean to be screaming at you. Jerry just gets my goat. I'd like to see his place taken by someone who has more time to devote to examining things more closely, rather than dismissing something just because he had some initial problems with it. Gary -- Gary Heffelfinger --- Employed by, but not the mouthpiece of Clemson University. ---=== Amiga. The computer for the best of us. ===---
peter@sugar.uu.net (Peter da Silva) (09/29/88)
In article <6206@dayton.UUCP>, joe@dayton.UUCP (Joseph P. Larson) writes: > I mean, come on! Anyone who can co-author brainstorms such as "Oath of > Fealty" can handle a little computer technology. The keyword is "co-author". His two top victims, Larry Niven and David Gerrold, write *much* better stories when he keeps his sticky fingers out. All he adds is a plethora of minor characters and a bunch of his fascist politics. > And when he complains that the Amiga > crashes from time-to-time, he's exactly right. It *does* crash every now > and then. So does the IBM-PC, when you run buggy software. I remember trashing a couple of programs back in the bad old days when I was using a PC, because they'd freeze on me. The only difference is that the Guru Meditation is politically incorrect. He'd much rather have a hard freeze or a cute little "bomb". > Manx "z" (at least version 3.4A) has bugs in its garbage collection, > for instance, that gives you reproducable crashes. Yeh, it's a pisser. I was upset to discover they hadn't been fixed in 3.6. If they weren't so dependable (1,$s/^M//) I wouldn't use it. But since I can reliably keep it from crashing, I can use it just to avoid Emacs. > The average guy out there > isn't going to be real understanding when his 1-hour edit session was just > wasted 'cause the computer crashed. Yeh. Try sticking a lan on a PC. It's agony... ever had someone pissed because someone *else's* machine crashed, and their LAN software locked up their machine? > Don't bitch about what he says. Fix it. -Joe I'm working on it. But not because of Jerry. In spite of him. What are you doing? -- Peter da Silva `-_-' peter@sugar.uu.net Have you hugged U your wolf today?
lee@uhccux.uhcc.hawaii.edu (Greg Lee) (09/30/88)
From article <386@uwslh.UUCP>, by lishka@uwslh.UUCP (Fish-Guts): " In article <70319@sun.uucp> cmcmanis@sun.UUCP (Chuck McManis) writes: " >In article <3060@hubcap.UUCP> disd@hubcap.UUCP (Gary Heffelfinger) writes: I don't think any of the criticisms of Pournelle's column in this discussion are well taken. Neither he nor the users his column is for are stupid -- rather, they are impatient. Those of us who are interested in programs and computers for their own sake are willing, or maybe eager, to take some time and devote some thought to why the machine behaves the way it does and how to bend it to our wills. This is not a typical attitude, and Jerry's column is not for us. The premise of his column is that it is by and for the non-programmer. Given this premise, it's too bad, really, that Jerry has come to know as much as he does about computers. I imagine he tries to avoid much use of his expertise in reviewing products. Greg, lee@uhccux.uhcc.hawaii.edu
wtm@neoucom.UUCP (Bill Mayhew) (09/30/88)
If he's brain-dead, perhaps that gives us something that we can use our neural network simulator for... But seriously... Pournelle did say in the article that people were lining up at his shindig party to mess around with the Amiga. I and several other people I spoke with reacted to it as more Electronic Arts criticism and Amiga almost-praise. E.A. probably deserves the criticism. What irritates me is that Jerry spends a lot of time telling us about all the hob-knobing and schmoozing he's doing. Sometimes I'd swear he get bruises from patting his own back too hard. I don't care much for Jerry's column, but Jerry himself is a pretty good filter for seeing what kind of reactions I get from neophyte and modestly experienced l'users I have to deal with. I just wish he'd cut out the schmoozola stuff. It takes too long to read the whole thing, so I usually just skim the Chaos Manner Column in Byte. He's a little better in his Infoworld Columns, as they only give him one page for his verbal peregrinations. --Bill
cosell@bbn.com (Bernie Cosell) (09/30/88)
In article <386@uwslh.UUCP> lishka@uwslh.UUCP (Fish-Guts) writes: }In article <70319@sun.uucp> cmcmanis@sun.UUCP (Chuck McManis) writes: }>Really stupid people use computer programs every day. There is no reason }>that it has to be any more difficult for them than it does for the rest of }>us computer "pros". } } I do not think the problem is that Mr. Pournelle is really }stupid, or that there are a lot of "really stupid people [using] }computer programs every day." Just because someone does not use a }computer does not make them automatically stupid. }... there are very many bright and intelligent people out there who }have a hard time using computers. Just like there are many bright and }intelligent computer people who find it difficult fixing a bicycle }(although Leo and myself are probably not among them). Just because }someone has trouble using a machine does not make them stupid. This is surely the real point and (much as I hate to say it) JP is MUCH closer to reality than I think we are conceding him. I've been a local guru or demi-guru around here at BBN for a LONG time, and BBN is a pretty bright place, and it is people who use computers all day long. And I'm amazed at *still* how wide and deep the misunderstandings are around the company about the way things work. Folk with a decade of experience have *NO* intuition (at all!) what happens when they click on a MAC icon, or just what is happening when the SCRIBE something and it pops out on the laserprinter downstairs, or how their email makes its way onto the screen of the person in the next office. If *real* computer professionals can (and do!) have troubles because they work with the wrong (or no) conceptual models, it can only be REALLY daunting for the "Average Joe". } Now, what makes Mr. Pournelle so damned frustrating is that he is }not *really* a computer professional; instead, he just acts like one. }I am beginning to think that he knows very little about computers, This is true -- if you've read his article for a long time, you've observed that while he's getting pretty good at it now, he's basically almost a COMPLETE babe in the woods. He's always had VERY expert help. A live-in hardware guy to help dope out problems, to help get things connected, and even to help cobble up custom stuff where necessary. His earlier exploits all invovled PERSONAL visits and hand holding from the *presidents* (for chrissake!) of the various companies. I was always amazed that he seemed to assume that an almost-useable product was LESS good than a totally bogus one was just because _he_ got his copy personally fixed up was (kind of like knocking SUN workstations because Bill Joy won't come by your house and show you how to use "tar"). On the other hand, Bill Godbout and whoever-it-is (I forget -- Phillippe somebody) who did Turbo Pascal got a LOT of good press in return for their spending a lot of time holding Jerry's hand and paying special attention to his gripes. __ / ) Bernie Cosell /--< _ __ __ o _ BBN Sys & Tech, Cambridge, MA 02238 /___/_(<_/ (_/) )_(_(<_ cosell@bbn.com
wtm@neoucom.UUCP (Bill Mayhew) (09/30/88)
Most of the time old Jer is an affable chap. I can even put up with the long-winded discussions telling us about all the important people he's button holed lately. One thing that was odd, was several years ago he went into about a 3 page tirade over a broken disk door latch on a 5-1/4 inch drive. It seems he tooled down to the local disk drive manufacturing plant and got thoroughly befuddled when they wouldn't sell him a replacement part (the door latch). It seems that he couldn't handle the fact that the factory wasn't the same thing as repair parts distributor. It seems that especially for him, it would have been easier just to buy a whole new drive and be done with it. The time he wasted fussing over the latch was probably a lot more valuable than the drive itself anyway. Other than that one incident, Jerry seems to have more or less a grasp on reality. --Bill
Sullivan@cup.portal.com (10/01/88)
> >> Manx "z" (at least version 3.4A) has bugs in its garbage collection, >> for instance, that gives you reproducable crashes. > >Yeh, it's a pisser. I was upset to discover they hadn't been fixed in 3.6. If >they weren't so dependable (1,$s/^M//) I wouldn't use it. But since I can >reliably keep it from crashing, I can use it just to avoid Emacs. > eh? I've never had Z crash on that command. (I used to download uuencoded files from Portal with carriage returns turned on, so I'd end up with 60k files that had a ^M on every line. The s// command in Z is heinously slow, but has worked for me every time. In fact, the first time I tried it, I ended up resetting the machine because I thought it had crashed, and I didn't want to continue because the machine was horribly slow. )
peter@sugar.uu.net (Peter da Silva) (10/02/88)
In article <9598@cup.portal.com>, Sullivan@cup.portal.com writes: > >Yeh, it's a pisser. I was upset to discover they hadn't been fixed in 3.6. If > >they weren't so dependable (1,$s/^M//) I wouldn't use it. But since I can > >reliably keep it from crashing, I can use it just to avoid Emacs. > eh? I've never had Z crash on that command. Odd. It definitely crashes on me. No ambiguity. I have switched to (:>/^V^M^Mx) and 999@@. -- Peter da Silva `-_-' peter@sugar.uu.net Have you hugged U your wolf today?
jdow@gryphon.CTS.COM (J. Dow) (10/02/88)
In article <70319@sun.uucp> cmcmanis@sun.UUCP (Chuck McManis) writes: >In article <3060@hubcap.UUCP> disd@hubcap.UUCP (Gary Heffelfinger) writes: >[Complains about Jerry Pournelles troubles with F/A-18 and draws the following > conclusion.] > >>Geez! How tough is it to spin a few wheels? Annoying, maybe, but >>rocket science it is not. > >Actually, his comments are quite to the point and show up a really poor >policy on the part of EA. Here, their biggest competition is Jet from >SubLOGIC and *that* isn't copy protected. So what's their problem? The >fact that Jerry has trouble running a text editor without some serious >handholding is well known. The problem is to assume he is unique. He isn't. >Really stupid people use computer programs every day. There is no reason >that it has to be any more difficult for them than it does for the rest of >us computer "pros". Now EA reads his column and maybe Trip Hawkins says >"Gee, we really got blasted for using the codewheel, maybe we shouldn't >copy protect these things." And what is important is that when Jerry says >it, 200,000 stupid people read it and say "I won't buy that program, my >buddy Jerry can't even figure out the copy protection on it." And if >EA could even sell 100,000 copies of F/A-18 they would be wildly happy. >So Jerrys comment is a couple of orders more powerful than you or I >bitching about copy protection. And that is a *good* thing. Hey, I don't >agree with Jerry's opinions anymore than you do but it actually is a >pretty good reflection on how the less understanding computer community >views the Amiga. And if you can make it clear to Jerry, then you can >make it clear to a lot of other people and *that* will increase sales >of the Amiga. > I was THERE at that party. It was indeed very hard to use that blasted wheel in the half light of the room. Nay - it was nearly impossible. It was also rather inconvenient to have to do it so often. That program is fun to play with but it is a real pain in the <bleep> to use in the press of a party. I suppose here at home it'd be no problem to run - if I could find that f**king code wheel when I need it. (You'd have to see this mess to believe it.) A desk made out of a door and two 2 drawer file cabinets is not big enough to hold the two Amigas, notes, Digiview, Zenith monitor, unmpty million floppies, four hard disks, and other miscelaneous junk. I don't know where I would put that code wheel that I could find it right when I wanted it. Anyway -*I* certainly will not try to play with that code wheel game during the general confusion of a party with several partly sloshed guests all trying to pilot that fool plane around the area. They just do not have any empathy for the scenario set by the code wheel or such stuff. They want to shoot something downor fly under a bridge instead. {@_@} >--Chuck McManis >uucp: {anywhere}!sun!cmcmanis BIX: cmcmanis ARPAnet: cmcmanis@sun.com >These opinions are my own and no one elses, but you knew that didn't you. -- Sometimes a bird in the hand leaves a sticky deposit. Perhaps it were best it remain there in the bush with the other one. {@_@} jdow@bix (where else?) Sometimes the dragon wins. Sometimes jdow@gryphon.CTS.COM the knight. Does the fair maiden ever {backbone}!gryphon!jdow win? Surely both the knight and dragon stink. Maybe the maiden should suicide? Better yet - she should get an Amiga and quit playing with dragons and knights.
jdow@gryphon.CTS.COM (J. Dow) (10/02/88)
In article <386@uwslh.UUCP> lishka@uwslh.UUCP (Fish-Guts) writes: >In article <70319@sun.uucp> cmcmanis@sun.UUCP (Chuck McManis) writes: >>In article <3060@hubcap.UUCP> disd@hubcap.UUCP (Gary Heffelfinger) writes: >>[Complains about Jerry Pournelles troubles with F/A-18 and draws the following >> conclusion.] >> >>Actually, his comments are quite to the point and show up a really poor >>policy on the part of EA. Here, their biggest competition is Jet from >>SubLOGIC and *that* isn't copy protected. So what's their problem? The >>fact that Jerry has trouble running a text editor without some serious >>handholding is well known. The problem is to assume he is unique. He isn't. >>Really stupid people use computer programs every day. There is no reason >>that it has to be any more difficult for them than it does for the rest of >>us computer "pros". > Now, what makes Mr. Pournelle so damned frustrating is that he is >not *really* a computer professional; instead, he just acts like one. Dr. Pournelle is indeed not a computer professional. He HAS been using personal computers (not just PClones) for many years now. He IS experienced. (He is the one of the Niven/Pournelle pair who is more facile with the computers inspite of Larry injecting most of the abstruse science aspects.) What you guys are missing here is this was a party. Jerry was NOT the person trying to use the wheel. He was watching a half dozen of his friends, ME INCLUDED, use that damn code wheel. In an exciting party setting the delays and frustrations using that wheel were unsupportable. *I* had trouble using the fool thing in the ambient lighting. It has all the attractiveness of three week dead hamsters camped two feet inside your mattress. It just DOES NOT work. (And *I* certainly RESENT the implication that because I cannot make that stupid wheel work in that party setting I am in some way stupid or dumb or otherwise less than competant dammit! I'd better cool off. You guys finally got MY goat because in tarring Jerry with THIS brush you are impunging MY abilities as well. You can just <bleep> off on THAT one. {\,/} > >>--Chuck McManis >>uucp: {anywhere}!sun!cmcmanis BIX: cmcmanis ARPAnet: cmcmanis@sun.com >>These opinions are my own and no one elses, but you knew that didn't you. > > >-- >Christopher Lishka ...!{rutgers|ucbvax|...}!uwvax!uwslh!lishka >Wisconsin State Lab of Hygiene lishka%uwslh.uucp@cs.wisc.edu >Immunology Section (608)262-1617 lishka@uwslh.uucp > ---- >"...Just because someone is shy and gets straight A's does not mean they won't >put wads of gum in your arm pits." > - Lynda Barry, "Ernie Pook's Commeek: Gum of Mystery" -- Sometimes a bird in the hand leaves a sticky deposit. Perhaps it were best it remain there in the bush with the other one. {@_@} jdow@bix (where else?) Sometimes the dragon wins. Sometimes jdow@gryphon.CTS.COM the knight. Does the fair maiden ever {backbone}!gryphon!jdow win? Surely both the knight and dragon stink. Maybe the maiden should suicide? Better yet - she should get an Amiga and quit playing with dragons and knights.
jdow@gryphon.CTS.COM (J. Dow) (10/02/88)
In article <2704@sugar.uu.net> peter@sugar.uu.net (Peter da Silva) writes: >In article <6206@dayton.UUCP>, joe@dayton.UUCP (Joseph P. Larson) writes: < lots of elided material here. > > >Yeh. Try sticking a lan on a PC. It's agony... ever had someone pissed because >someone *else's* machine crashed, and their LAN software locked up their >machine? Say what???? After Jerry brought up Lantastic on a Zenith and an AT&T machine (with much screaming in agony over the manual) Andy Finkel and I brought it up on the Amiga's PC side in about 10 minutes. The manual sucks dead cockroaches through glass hospital straws but the data needed WAS there. And it installed slick as you could ask for once we altered the LAN's IRQ address to avoid conflicting with what Janus software uses. The LAN never locked up for others even when we AMigan nerve pinched the A2000. Perhaps you're used to a funky setup LAN? {@_@} > >What are you doing? >-- > Peter da Silva `-_-' peter@sugar.uu.net > Have you hugged U your wolf today? -- Sometimes a bird in the hand leaves a sticky deposit. Perhaps it were best it remain there in the bush with the other one. {@_@} jdow@bix (where else?) Sometimes the dragon wins. Sometimes jdow@gryphon.CTS.COM the knight. Does the fair maiden ever {backbone}!gryphon!jdow win? Surely both the knight and dragon stink. Maybe the maiden should suicide? Better yet - she should get an Amiga and quit playing with dragons and knights.
papa@pollux.usc.edu (Marco Papa) (10/02/88)
In article <7437@gryphon.CTS.COM> jdow@gryphon.CTS.COM (J. Dow) writes: |What you guys are missing here is this was a party. Jerry was NOT the person |trying to use the wheel. He was watching a half dozen of his friends, ME |INCLUDED, use that damn code wheel. In an exciting party setting the delays |and frustrations using that wheel were unsupportable. *I* had trouble using |the fool thing in the ambient lighting. It has all the attractiveness of |three week dead hamsters camped two feet inside your mattress. It just DOES |NOT work. (And *I* certainly RESENT the implication that because I cannot make |that stupid wheel work in that party setting I am in some way stupid or dumb or |otherwise less than competant dammit! I am happy to report that Jerry is getting in the mail "f18patch", posted a while ago on usenet, which will allow him to have much better parties in the future. -- Marco Papa 'Doc' -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= uucp:...!pollux!papa BIX:papa ARPAnet:pollux!papa@oberon.usc.edu "There's Alpha, Beta, Gamma and Diga!" -- Leo Schwab [quoting Rick Unland] -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
peter@sugar.uu.net (Peter da Silva) (10/02/88)
In article <7437@gryphon.CTS.COM>, jdow@gryphon.CTS.COM (J. Dow) writes: > and frustrations using that wheel were unsupportable. *I* had trouble using > the fool thing in the ambient lighting... So turn the light up. -- Peter da Silva `-_-' peter@sugar.uu.net Have you hugged U your wolf today?
peter@sugar.uu.net (Peter da Silva) (10/02/88)
First, a comment. It is not necessary or desirable to include everyone's .signature in every message every time you quote them. In article <7438@gryphon.CTS.COM>, jdow@gryphon.CTS.COM (J. Dow) writes: > conflicting with what Janus software uses. The LAN never locked up for others > even when we AMigan nerve pinched the A2000. Perhaps you're used to a funky > setup LAN? I'm used to things like IBM-PC application software that crashes when a file it's accessing vanishes. Yes, a bad block on a disk would likely have the same effect, but that's a lot less common occurrance than someone else's PC crashing. -- Peter da Silva `-_-' peter@sugar.uu.net Have you hugged U your wolf today?
joe@dayton.UUCP (Joseph P. Larson) (10/03/88)
In article <9598@cup.portal.com> Sullivan@cup.portal.com writes: >> (I wrote:) >>> Manx "z" (at least version 3.4A) has bugs in its garbage collection, >>> for instance, that gives you reproducable crashes. >> (Someone else wrote:) >>Yeh, it's a pisser. I was upset to discover they hadn't been fixed in 3.6. If >>they weren't so dependable (1,$s/^M//) I wouldn't use it. But since I can >>reliably keep it from crashing, I can use it just to avoid Emacs. >> (Sullivan wrote:) >eh? I've never had Z crash on that command. That's not the crash I've got, either. Under certain circumstances, I've done the following (although maybe in reverse): 1. Join a line 2. Decide you didn't want it joined and insert a newline in the appropriate place. It does garbage collection of some sort (flashes the free mem line at the bottom) and crashes. Obviously it doesn't happen every time, but if you find one occurance, it's totally reproducable if you can perform the same keystrokes after rebooting the machine..... (Not surprising.) Whatever. -J -- UUCP: rutgers!dayton!joe (Feed my Dayton Hudson Department Store Company ATT : (612) 375-3537 picture Joe Larson/MIS 1060 (standard disclaimer...) collection) 700 on the Mall Mpls, Mn. 55402
cjp@antique.UUCP (Charles Poirier) (10/04/88)
In article <7436@gryphon.CTS.COM> jdow@gryphon.CTS.COM (J. Dow) writes: >Anyway -*I* certainly will not try to play with that code wheel game during the >general confusion of a party with several partly sloshed guests all trying to >pilot that fool plane around the area. They just do not have any empathy for >the scenario set by the code wheel or such stuff. They want to shoot something >downor fly under a bridge instead. Perhaps the moral is that drinking and flying don't mix? ;^) Seriously though. Are we to understand that a game review should be based on its suitability for use in darkness while inebriated? Especially if this is not mentioned in said review? I don't love the code wheel, I agree it slows things unnecessarily, but complicated it isn't. -- Charles Poirier (decvax,ucbvax,mcnc,attmail)!vax135!cjp "Docking complete... Docking complete... Docking complete..."
peter%sugar.uu.net@UDEL.EDU (10/04/88)
Received: from CUNYVM by CUNYVM.BITNET (Mailer X2.00) with BSMTP id 4387; Sat, 01 Oct 88 23:53:45 EDT Received: from UDEL.EDU by CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (IBM VM SMTP R1.1) with TCP; Sat, 01 Oct 88 23:53:42 EDT Received: by Louie.UDEL.EDU id ae02594; 1 Oct 88 21:23 EDT Received: from Louie.UDEL.EDU by Louie.udel.EDU id ae02310; 1 Oct 88 21:11 EDT Received: from USENET by Louie.UDEL.EDU id aa02187; 1 Oct 88 20:59 EDT From: Peter da Silva <peter@sugar.uu.net> Subject: Re: Mr. Pournelle is brain-dead. News at 11:00. Message-ID: <2722@sugar.uu.net> Date: 1 Oct 88 22:06:58 GMT Organization: Sugar Land Unix - Houston, TX To: amiga-relay@UDEL.EDU Sender: amiga-relay-request@UDEL.EDU In article <9598@cup.portal.com>, Sullivan@cup.portal.com writes: > >Yeh, it's a pisser. I was upset to discover they hadn't been fixed in 3.6. If > >they weren't so dependable (1,$s/^M//) I wouldn't use it. But since I can > >reliably keep it from crashing, I can use it just to avoid Emacs. > eh? I've never had Z crash on that command. Odd. It definitely crashes on me. No ambiguity. I have switched to (:>/^V^M^Mx) and 999@@. -- Peter da Silva `-_-' peter@sugar.uu.net Have you hugged U your wolf today?
Sullivan%cup.portal.com@UDEL.EDU (10/04/88)
Received: from CUNYVM by CUNYVM.BITNET (Mailer X2.00) with BSMTP id 5467; Sun, 02 Oct 88 01:05:48 EDT Received: from UDEL.EDU by CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (IBM VM SMTP R1.1) with TCP; Sun, 02 Oct 88 01:05:45 EDT Received: from Louie.UDEL.EDU by Louie.udel.EDU id ac05844; 1 Oct 88 18:03 EDT Received: from USENET by Louie.UDEL.EDU id aa05830; 1 Oct 88 18:01 EDT From: Sullivan@cup.portal.com Subject: Re: Mr. Pournelle is brain-dead. News at 11:00. Message-ID: <9598@cup.portal.com> Date: 30 Sep 88 23:07:45 GMT Organization: The Portal System (TM) XPortal-User-Id: 1.1001.5165 To: amiga-relay@UDEL.EDU Sender: amiga-relay-request@UDEL.EDU > >> Manx "z" (at least version 3.4A) has bugs in its garbage collection, >> for instance, that gives you reproducable crashes. > >Yeh, it's a pisser. I was upset to discover they hadn't been fixed in 3.6. If >they weren't so dependable (1,$s/^M//) I wouldn't use it. But since I can >reliably keep it from crashing, I can use it just to avoid Emacs. > eh? I've never had Z crash on that command. (I used to download uuencoded files from Portal with carriage returns turned on, so I'd end up with 60k files that had a ^M on every line. The s// command in Z is heinously slow, but has worked for me every time. In fact, the first time I tried it, I ended up resetting the machine because I thought it had crashed, and I didn't want to continue because the machine was horribly slow. )
jdow%gryphon.cts.com@UDEL.EDU (10/04/88)
Received: from CUNYVM by CUNYVM.BITNET (Mailer X2.00) with BSMTP id 5188; Sun, 02 Oct 88 00:39:52 EDT Received: from UDEL.EDU by CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (IBM VM SMTP R1.1) with TCP; Sun, 02 Oct 88 00:39:50 EDT Received: from Louie.UDEL.EDU by Louie.udel.EDU id ad01411; 1 Oct 88 20:17 EDT Received: from USENET by Louie.UDEL.EDU id aa01304; 1 Oct 88 20:04 EDT From: "J. Dow" <jdow@gryphon.cts.com> Subject: Re: Mr. Pournelle is brain-dead. News at 11:00. Message-ID: <7438@gryphon.CTS.COM> Date: 1 Oct 88 22:52:48 GMT Organization: Wizardess Designs, Hermosa Beach, Ca. To: amiga-relay@UDEL.EDU Sender: amiga-relay-request@UDEL.EDU In article <2704@sugar.uu.net> peter@sugar.uu.net (Peter da Silva) writes: >In article <6206@dayton.UUCP>, joe@dayton.UUCP (Joseph P. Larson) writes: < lots of elided material here. > > >Yeh. Try sticking a lan on a PC. It's agony... ever had someone pissed because >someone *else's* machine crashed, and their LAN software locked up their >machine? Say what???? After Jerry brought up Lantastic on a Zenith and an AT&T machine (with much screaming in agony over the manual) Andy Finkel and I brought it up on the Amiga's PC side in about 10 minutes. The manual sucks dead cockroaches through glass hospital straws but the data needed WAS there. And it installed slick as you could ask for once we altered the LAN's IRQ address to avoid conflicting with what Janus software uses. The LAN never locked up for others even when we AMigan nerve pinched the A2000. Perhaps you're used to a funky setup LAN? {@_@} > >What are you doing? >-- > Peter da Silva `-_-' peter@sugar.uu.net > Have you hugged U your wolf today? -- Sometimes a bird in the hand leaves a sticky deposit. Perhaps it were best it remain there in the bush with the other one. {@_@} jdow@bix (where else?) Sometimes the dragon wins. Sometimes jdow@gryphon.CTS.COM the knight. Does the fair maiden ever {backbone}!gryphon!jdow win? Surely both the knight and dragon stink. Maybe the maiden should suicide? Better yet - she should get an Amiga and quit playing with dragons and knights.
jdow%gryphon.cts.com@UDEL.EDU (10/04/88)
Received: from CUNYVM by CUNYVM.BITNET (Mailer X2.00) with BSMTP id 5660; Sun, 02 Oct 88 01:09:40 EDT Received: from UDEL.EDU by CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (IBM VM SMTP R1.1) with TCP; Sun, 02 Oct 88 01:09:37 EDT Received: from Louie.UDEL.EDU by Louie.udel.EDU id ae01411; 1 Oct 88 20:19 EDT Received: from USENET by Louie.UDEL.EDU id aa01310; 1 Oct 88 20:04 EDT From: "J. Dow" <jdow@gryphon.cts.com> Subject: Re: Mr. Pournelle is brain-dead. News at 11:00. Message-ID: <7436@gryphon.CTS.COM> Date: 1 Oct 88 22:30:58 GMT Organization: Trailing Edge Technology, Redondo Beach, CA To: amiga-relay@UDEL.EDU Sender: amiga-relay-request@UDEL.EDU In article <70319@sun.uucp> cmcmanis@sun.UUCP (Chuck McManis) writes: >In article <3060@hubcap.UUCP> disd@hubcap.UUCP (Gary Heffelfinger) writes: >[Complains about Jerry Pournelles troubles with F/A-18 and draws the following > conclusion.] > >>Geez! How tough is it to spin a few wheels? Annoying, maybe, but >>rocket science it is not. > >Actually, his comments are quite to the point and show up a really poor >policy on the part of EA. Here, their biggest competition is Jet from >SubLOGIC and *that* isn't copy protected. So what's their problem? The >fact that Jerry has trouble running a text editor without some serious >handholding is well known. The problem is to assume he is unique. He isn't. >Really stupid people use computer programs every day. There is no reason >that it has to be any more difficult for them than it does for the rest of >us computer "pros". Now EA reads his column and maybe Trip Hawkins says >"Gee, we really got blasted for using the codewheel, maybe we shouldn't >copy protect these things." And what is important is that when Jerry says >it, 200,000 stupid people read it and say "I won't buy that program, my >buddy Jerry can't even figure out the copy protection on it." And if >EA could even sell 100,000 copies of F/A-18 they would be wildly happy. >So Jerrys comment is a couple of orders more powerful than you or I >bitching about copy protection. And that is a *good* thing. Hey, I don't >agree with Jerry's opinions anymore than you do but it actually is a >pretty good reflection on how the less understanding computer community >views the Amiga. And if you can make it clear to Jerry, then you can >make it clear to a lot of other people and *that* will increase sales >of the Amiga. > I was THERE at that party. It was indeed very hard to use that blasted wheel in the half light of the room. Nay - it was nearly impossible. It was also rather inconvenient to have to do it so often. That program is fun to play with but it is a real pain in the <bleep> to use in the press of a party. I suppose here at home it'd be no problem to run - if I could find that f**king code wheel when I need it. (You'd have to see this mess to believe it.) A desk made out of a door and two 2 drawer file cabinets is not big enough to hold the two Amigas, notes, Digiview, Zenith monitor, unmpty million floppies, four hard disks, and other miscelaneous junk. I don't know where I would put that code wheel that I could find it right when I wanted it. Anyway -*I* certainly will not try to play with that code wheel game during the general confusion of a party with several partly sloshed guests all trying to pilot that fool plane around the area. They just do not have any empathy for the scenario set by the code wheel or such stuff. They want to shoot something downor fly under a bridge instead. {@_@} >--Chuck McManis >uucp: {anywhere}!sun!cmcmanis BIX: cmcmanis ARPAnet: cmcmanis@sun.com >These opinions are my own and no one elses, but you knew that didn't you.
jdow%gryphon.cts.com@UDEL.EDU (10/04/88)
Received: from CUNYVM by CUNYVM.BITNET (Mailer X2.00) with BSMTP id 5635; Sun, 02 Oct 88 01:09:22 EDT Received: from UDEL.EDU by CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (IBM VM SMTP R1.1) with TCP; Sun, 02 Oct 88 01:09:18 EDT Received: from Louie.UDEL.EDU by Louie.udel.EDU id ac01411; 1 Oct 88 20:16 EDT Received: from USENET by Louie.UDEL.EDU id aa01298; 1 Oct 88 20:04 EDT From: "J. Dow" <jdow@gryphon.cts.com> Subject: Re: Mr. Pournelle is brain-dead. News at 11:00. Message-ID: <7437@gryphon.CTS.COM> Date: 1 Oct 88 22:46:44 GMT Organization: Wizardess Designs, Hermosa Beach, Ca. To: amiga-relay@UDEL.EDU Sender: amiga-relay-request@UDEL.EDU In article <386@uwslh.UUCP> lishka@uwslh.UUCP (Fish-Guts) writes: >In article <70319@sun.uucp> cmcmanis@sun.UUCP (Chuck McManis) writes: >>In article <3060@hubcap.UUCP> disd@hubcap.UUCP (Gary Heffelfinger) writes: >>[Complains about Jerry Pournelles troubles with F/A-18 and draws the following >> conclusion.] >> >>Actually, his comments are quite to the point and show up a really poor >>policy on the part of EA. Here, their biggest competition is Jet from >>SubLOGIC and *that* isn't copy protected. So what's their problem? The >>fact that Jerry has trouble running a text editor without some serious >>handholding is well known. The problem is to assume he is unique. He isn't. >>Really stupid people use computer programs every day. There is no reason >>that it has to be any more difficult for them than it does for the rest of >>us computer "pros". > Now, what makes Mr. Pournelle so damned frustrating is that he is >not *really* a computer professional; instead, he just acts like one. Dr. Pournelle is indeed not a computer professional. He HAS been using personal computers (not just PClones) for many years now. He IS experienced. (He is the one of the Niven/Pournelle pair who is more facile with the computers inspite of Larry injecting most of the abstruse science aspects.) What you guys are missing here is this was a party. Jerry was NOT the person trying to use the wheel. He was watching a half dozen of his friends, ME INCLUDED, use that damn code wheel. In an exciting party setting the delays and frustrations using that wheel were unsupportable. *I* had trouble using the fool thing in the ambient lighting. It has all the attractiveness of three week dead hamsters camped two feet inside your mattress. It just DOES NOT work. (And *I* certainly RESENT the implication that because I cannot make that stupid wheel work in that party setting I am in some way stupid or dumb or otherwise less than competant dammit! I'd better cool off. You guys finally got MY goat because in tarring Jerry with THIS brush you are impunging MY abilities as well. You can just <bleep> off on THAT one. {\,/} > >>--Chuck McManis >>uucp: {anywhere}!sun!cmcmanis BIX: cmcmanis ARPAnet: cmcmanis@sun.com >>These opinions are my own and no one elses, but you knew that didn't you. > > >-- >Christopher Lishka ...!{rutgers|ucbvax|...}!uwvax!uwslh!lishka >Wisconsin State Lab of Hygiene lishka%uwslh.uucp@cs.wisc.edu >Immunology Section (608)262-1617 lishka@uwslh.uucp > ---- >"...Just because someone is shy and gets straight A's does not mean they won't >put wads of gum in your arm pits."
smann@watdcsu.waterloo.edu (Shannon Mann - I.S.er) (10/05/88)
I *used* to read B*TE every month, back when I was new to computers. I can
remember Jerry going through extraordinary efforts to get the latest box
working that was sent to him from a clone manufacturer. For those machines he
had patience (in most cases, the machines were free, he received very good
support (can be read as hand-holding if your english has that slant), and when
he called someone with a problem, he was treated with R E S P E C T.) but for
the Amiga, he has little. I think that his criticisms have less basis than
he would ever be willing to admit.
Regardless, he has *power*, however we might wish it otherwise. Other
manufacturers recognise it, and I wish Commodore would. If Jerry prefers to
be hand-held, so be it. The investment in time and money is certainly worth
the free publicity. Lets admit it, chalk another one up to Commodore's
sometimes inept marketing style. Having Jerry's readers reading GOOD things
about the Amiga would be worth more than most ad campaigns they run.
Please let it be known, I do not condone Jerry's behavior, I deplore it. But,
when facing the problem, I can only conclude that the simplest solution is to
go along with his particular idiosyncracies. Can our pride not afford it?
-=-
-=- Shannon Mann -=- smann@watdcsu.UWaterloo.ca
-=-peter@sugar.uu.net (Peter da Silva) (10/06/88)
The only game I know of that is designed with reduced motor skills in mind is Tracers, by Peter da Silva and Karl Lehenbauer. Yes, your friendly local alt.sources.amiga moderators. If you're not doing well it progressively slows things down to help you get back into the action. This costs you some points, but does let drunks and 5 year olds actually play it without embarrasing themselves. Of course, if you're good it'll keep speeding up until you're overwhelmed, just like any other decent arcade style game. -- Peter da Silva `-_-' peter@sugar.uu.net Have you hugged U your wolf today?
jdow@gryphon.CTS.COM (J. Dow) (10/06/88)
In article <5127@watdcsu.waterloo.edu> smann@watdcsu.waterloo.edu (Shannon Mann - I.S.er) writes: >I *used* to read B*TE every month, back when I was new to computers. I can >remember Jerry going through extraordinary efforts to get the latest box >working that was sent to him from a clone manufacturer. For those machines he >had patience (in most cases, the machines were free, he received very good >support (can be read as hand-holding if your english has that slant), and when >he called someone with a problem, he was treated with R E S P E C T.) but for >the Amiga, he has little. I think that his criticisms have less basis than >he would ever be willing to admit. >Regardless, he has *power*, however we might wish it otherwise. Other >manufacturers recognise it, and I wish Commodore would. If Jerry prefers to >be hand-held, so be it. The investment in time and money is certainly worth >the free publicity. Lets admit it, chalk another one up to Commodore's >sometimes inept marketing style. Having Jerry's readers reading GOOD things >about the Amiga would be worth more than most ad campaigns they run. >Please let it be known, I do not condone Jerry's behavior, I deplore it. But, >when facing the problem, I can only conclude that the simplest solution is to >go along with his particular idiosyncracies. Can our pride not afford it? > > -=- >-=- Shannon Mann -=- smann@watdcsu.UWaterloo.ca > -=- Shannon, that is a large part of why I have tried to support him as best I can. Mostly I have not had the time to hand walk him through some of the peculiarities. When I get over there mostly all I have time to do is install the new goodie I have for him or fix something that glitched. (His A1000 was a wonder of flakiness. I saw it work flawlessly all evening. Then next time it'd die every three seconds - sometimes not even completing a boot sequence. Then inexplicably it'd start working right again. Talk about frustrating!!!) Anyway - he is a bit on the abrasive side; but, he does strive to be an honorable person and report what he sees when he works on stuff. Unfortunately he saw an awful lot of crashes. And he saw a couple years ago a machine that amounts to something that C= is JUST delivering. He was told that IT would be the A2000, ie Bridge Card AND 68020 processor in every A2000. When the real thing surfaced it was much different. A repackaged A1000 is not front page news. (That is a sore point at BYTE re some Amiga execs who "demanded" the cover for the A2000 unveiling... BYTE reserves THAT for real news not repackaged computers.) Jerry may be a tad er ah daunting from time to time. But somehow I trust him when the chips are down. Ya just gotta remember, when dealing with him, that his reactions seem to be several dB overstated. -- Sometimes a bird in the hand leaves a sticky deposit. Perhaps it were best it remain there in the bush with the other one. {@_@} jdow@bix (where else?) Sometimes the dragon wins. Sometimes jdow@gryphon.CTS.COM the knight. Does the fair maiden ever {backbone}!gryphon!jdow win? Surely both the knight and dragon stink. Maybe the maiden should suicide? Better yet - she should get an Amiga and quit playing with dragons and knights.
lishka@uwslh.UUCP (Fish-Guts) (10/08/88)
In article <7518@gryphon.CTS.COM> jdow@gryphon.CTS.COM (J. Dow) writes: >(That is a sore point at BYTE re some Amiga execs who "demanded" the >cover for the A2000 unveiling... BYTE reserves THAT for real news not repackaged >computers.) That may be a good reason to not put the a2000 on the cover of BYTE (because it was for the most part a repackaged a1000). However, I do not remember that BYTE ever put the a1000 on the cover of an issue, and when the a1000 was released it was Real News. Am I correct in my memory (that the a1000 was never given a front page) or am I hopelessly confused? > > jdow@bix (where else?) Sometimes the dragon wins. Sometimes > jdow@gryphon.CTS.COM the knight. Does the fair maiden ever > {backbone}!gryphon!jdow win? Surely both the knight and dragon .oO Chris Oo. -- Christopher Lishka ...!{rutgers|ucbvax|...}!uwvax!uwslh!lishka Wisconsin State Lab of Hygiene lishka%uwslh.uucp@cs.wisc.edu Immunology Section (608)262-1617 lishka@uwslh.uucp ---- "...Just because someone is shy and gets straight A's does not mean they won't put wads of gum in your arm pits." - Lynda Barry, "Ernie Pook's Commeek: Gum of Mystery"
wen@husc4.HARVARD.EDU (A. Wen) (10/08/88)
>In article <7518@gryphon.CTS.COM> jdow@gryphon.CTS.COM (J. Dow) writes: > > Am I correct in my memory (that the a1000 was never given a front >page) or am I hopelessly confused? Actually, the 1000 got the cover (remember a Picasso-like painting of a reclining woman next to a Picasso-like Amiga graphics display?) shortly before its release, I think, in August of 1985, or something. A. Wen wen@husc4.harvard.EDU wen@husc4.BITNET