limonce@pilot.njin.net (Tom Limoncelli) (10/15/88)
I finally have enough $$$ for a hard drive. It looks like I'm going
to put in an order for a 2090A. I have a couple questions:
First: Will the 2090A work with a ST238? I can get one (used) cheap
and if it works I will get it instead of other drives.
Second: My prime concern is price; with reliability as a close second.
For that reason, I am considering a brand-new Seagate 30meg (ST506
style). Is there some major reason that buying a 2090A is a mistake?
Third: Is a controller that does half-DMA (or is it fake-DMA?) going
to give me anything but speed?
In my heart, I want a GVP with a SCSI Connor 100 meg. I think that
will give me the best reliability. Of course, price is the first
priority. Since C-A makes the 2090A, I'm being conservative (ha ha
ha! Me being conservative! Buying hardware must be the only place
that I'm conservative!) and 30meg is in a good price range for me.
I don't do overscan, speed is no concern of mine. Software support
would be nice (i.e. third party utilities). Knowing that C-A will
most likely support their own drive in the future is a big plus.
Any help will be appreciated.
Tom "I'm drunk! I guess I shouldn't play F18!" Limoncelli
(new prefered mail address: tlimonce@drunivac.Bitnet)
--
Tom Limoncelli -- Drew University, Box 1060, Madison, NJ 07940
TLimonce@Drew.Bitnet -- limonce@pilot.njin.net -- VoiceMail (201)408-5389
Drew College of Liberal Arts: male/female ratio: 2:3 student/pc ratio: 1:1
"The opinions expressed are mine... just mine."hbo@sbphy.ucsb.edu (Howard B. Owen) (10/15/88)
In article <Oct.15.01.46.54.1988.24713@pilot.njin.net>, limonce@pilot.njin.net (Tom Limoncelli) writes... > >I finally have enough $$$ for a hard drive. It looks like I'm going >to put in an order for a 2090A. I have a couple questions: > . . >I don't do overscan, speed is no concern of mine. Software support >would be nice (i.e. third party utilities). Knowing that C-A will >most likely support their own drive in the future is a big plus. Yeah, right. That's why I bought the A2090 in the first place. 3 weeks or so after I brought it home, I caught wind of the A2090A, which would autoboot eventually. Fine, can I upgrade my A2090? No, indeed, there's no room on the board for autoboot ROMs. Grrr. On the other hand, if I had waited (and waited) for the A209A and 1.3 (let me add a few "and waiteds" for that last item), I would have had a lovely suprise when I tried to get my ST251 to boot from power-up. Of course, the failure to boot ST506 drives is entirely due to Seagate's "long latency" period. As if vanilla PCs hadn't been autobooting off the same drive hardware for years. Given CBM's long history of "support" for their products, I wouldn't put it at the top of my list of reasons to buy their hardware. -- Howard Owen, Computer Systems Manager internet: hbo@nobbs.ucsb.edu Physics Computer Services BITNET: HBO@SBITP.BITNET University of California, Santa Barbara HEPNET/SPAN: SBPHY::HBO "I am not a pay TV service!" 805-961-8366 (work)
joe@cbmvax.UUCP (Joe O'Hara) (10/16/88)
In article <910@hub.ucsb.edu> hbo@sbphy.ucsb.edu (Howard B. Owen) writes: ... >(and waited) for the A209A and 1.3 (let me add a few "and waiteds" for that >last item), I would have had a lovely suprise when I tried to get my ST251 >to boot from power-up. Of course, the failure to boot ST506 drives is entirely ^^^^^ >due to Seagate's "long latency" period. As if vanilla PCs hadn't been >autobooting off the same drive hardware for years. Given CBM's long history of >"support" for their products, I wouldn't put it at the top of my list of >reasons to buy their hardware. The autobooting problem exists for Seagate SCSI drives, not ST506 units. It is not a latency problem, but rather an artifact of the Seagate design. They decided to put their SCSI software on hidden tracks, rather than in ROM. Part of their initialization, therefore, includes booting the software into ondrive RAM. The advantage to this approach for them is the ability to turn around changes to their control software more rapidly and less expensively than masking new ROMs. The downside is that they're not ready in time to respond to SCSI Inquiry on our autoconfiguring system. -- ======================================================================== Joe O'Hara || Comments represent my own opinions, Commodore Electronics Ltd || not my employers. Any similarity to Software QA || to any other opinions, living or dead, || is purely coincidental. ========================================================================
hbo@sbphy.ucsb.edu (Howard B. Owen) (10/16/88)
In article <4999@cbmvax.UUCP>, joe@cbmvax.UUCP (Joe O'Hara) writes... >In article <910@hub.ucsb.edu> hbo@sbphy.ucsb.edu (Howard B. Owen) writes: > ... >>to boot from power-up. Of course, the failure to boot ST506 drives is entirely > ^^^^^ > >The autobooting problem exists for Seagate SCSI drives, not ST506 units. It Oops, my mistake. Not being able to autoboot from one manufacturer's SCSI implementation is a lot better than dropping support for ST506. Sorry for the public misunderstanding. Nevertheless, I'm still miffed about my A2090 not supporting autoboot. Y'all have an upgrade policy? -- Howard Owen, Computer Systems Manager internet: hbo@nobbs.ucsb.edu Physics Computer Services BITNET: HBO@SBITP.BITNET University of California, Santa Barbara HEPNET/SPAN: SBPHY::HBO "I am not a pay TV service!" 805-961-8366 (work)
adam@cbmvax.UUCP (Adam Levin CATS) (10/16/88)
In article <Oct.15.01.46.54.1988.24713@pilot.njin.net> limonce@pilot.njin.net (Tom Limoncelli) writes: > >I finally have enough $$$ for a hard drive. It looks like I'm going >to put in an order for a 2090A. I have a couple questions: > >First: Will the 2090A work with a ST238? I can get one (used) cheap >and if it works I will get it instead of other drives. (Other stuff deleted) The ST238 is an RLL drive, the 2090A is an MFM controller. They will work together (in fact, this is my setup) but you will NOT get the full 30 Meg RLL size, only 20 Meg. You could probably find a new 20 Meg MFM drive for close to the cost of the used ST238; I'd recommend this route instead. -Adam -- Adam Levin -- CATS Commodore Amiga Technical Support 1200 Wilson Drive / West Chester, PA 19380 (215) 431-9180 BIX: aklevin UUCP: ...{uunet,allegra,rutgers}!cbmvax!adam
jesup@cbmvax.UUCP (Randell Jesup) (10/17/88)
In article <910@hub.ucsb.edu> hbo@sbphy.ucsb.edu (Howard B. Owen) writes: >On the other hand, if I had waited >(and waited) for the A209A and 1.3 (let me add a few "and waiteds" for that >last item), I would have had a lovely suprise when I tried to get my ST251 >to boot from power-up. Of course, the failure to boot ST506 drives is entirely >due to Seagate's "long latency" period. As if vanilla PCs hadn't been >autobooting off the same drive hardware for years. Given CBM's long history of >"support" for their products, I wouldn't put it at the top of my list of >reasons to buy their hardware. The problem only exists, I think, with the SCSI versions of Seagate drives. You see, when a SCSI Seagate is powered up, it reads the code for handling SCSI commands OFF THE DRIVE. This takes some while (up to 20-25 seconds). Until that time, there is NO way to know the drive exists. Note that PC's have NOT been booting off Seagate SCSI's, but off Seagate st506's. The 2090a CAN (I'm fairly certain, but it's not my job) boot off an ST-506 Seagate. Also note that we're still not totally satisfied with the 2090 software, and may well make improvements in the future. Fear not. -- Randell Jesup, Commodore Engineering {uunet|rutgers|allegra}!cbmvax!jesup
limonce@pilot.njin.net (Tom Limoncelli) (10/18/88)
Ok. One of my original questions was will a ST238 work with a 2090A
controller. The answer is that it will, but I will only get 20meg
when formatted because it is a MFM controller, not RLL.
Is there such thing as a MFM hard drive that is a 30meg?
If the cost of a used 30meg is similar to a new 20meg then I'd be
paying for reliability, right? I may pick this route (the used 30 meg
is at a really good price).
Tom
--
Tom Limoncelli -- Drew University, Box 1060, Madison, NJ 07940
TLimonce@Drew.Bitnet -- limonce@pilot.njin.net -- VoiceMail (201)408-5389
Drew College of Liberal Arts: male/female ratio: 2:3 student/pc ratio: 1:1
"The opinions expressed are mine... just mine."
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-----
Tom Limoncelli -- Student Network Supervisor
Drew University, Box 1060, Madison NJ 07940 -- 201-408-5389
tlimonce@drunivac.Bitnet -- limonce@pilot.njin.net
"The opinions expressed are mine... just mine."
"Network Theory? Just say node!"