rminnich@duper.super.org (Ronald G Minnich) (10/13/88)
This is interesting. Now the Amiga is being compared to the NeXT machine and found wanting. After all, the NeXT machine will sell to users for only about $10K, so the comparison makes sense after all ... The price of the machines the amiga gets compared to keeps going up, but the Amiga never seems to do any better. No fair. On the other hand, it is clear that the flock of hackers who were attracted to the amiga (like, uh, leo? he has been asking about it on alt.next ... sob) may now flock to the NeXT machine. C= is going to have to do something soon ... very soon indeed. I had thought about getting an A2000 system at SRC, but institutional resistance makes it clear that getting a NeXT machine will be much easier- it, after all, runs Mach, a grown-up operating system. The amiga window is closing fast. It seems the MAC II types and the Amiga types here can agree that NeXT is probably an acceptable compromise. ron
rg20+@andrew.cmu.edu (Rick Francis Golembiewski) (10/14/88)
> On the other hand, it is clear that the flock of hackers who >were attracted to the amiga (like, uh, leo? he has been asking about >it on alt.next ... sob) may now flock to the NeXT machine. C= is going >to have to do something soon ... Humm.. WEll that $10K price tag that you mentioned may just make it a little difficult for some of us to go out and buy a NeXT Machine (Do you have $10K, lying around? I know I don't) Plus, with the NeXT Machine just being released, ask your self this: How Long is it going to take for it to have descent software (I mean software WRITTEN for the machine, not some PD UNIX stuff ported over), look the Amiga's been out for almost 4 years and just now is the software begining to actually use the potential of the machine (and there is now a pretty strong base of it too, certainly not as much as Apple or IBM, but hey they've been around longer and they cost a lot more $$$ too.). In any case, Is the NeXT Machine REALLY out? I've Heard "The NeXT Machine is comeing out next month..." for a long time now, so is it really out? And at $10K? I though It was supposed to be far less ($5K? $3K? I've heard both before...) Also, I've heard so MANY RUMORS about what the machine is suppoed to contain, does anyone have the company's official specs? I'de like to know (so that if the price ever comes down, and it's work it...). In any case the Amiga (good old A1000 +2Megs :-) ) suits my needs very well (I would like more colors, resolution and speed a 68020 or 68030, but NOT at what I'de have to pay for them now!) since it provides multi-tasking (protection would be nice, but I can live without it, mostly) , GOOD graphics and sound (Go and use an Apple II+ for a while and tell me about BAD graphics...) and it is of comprable speed (Maybe not as fast as a Mac II or 386 in pure processor power, but it fairs pretty well compared to the SE, and an AT) so all in all the Amiga is STILL a good machine. You CAN buy better machines, but hey if you REALLY want power go pick up a sun 4 or a Cray ;-) , but I bet that you can't get one for near the cost of the amiga. +------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---------+ | Disclaimer: Me? Post That, impossible I never post anything... | | TypetoYouLater(Everyone); --> "functional Good bye".... | | Rick Golembiewski [ Pronounciation is half the Battle, spelling the other] | +------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---------+
daveh@cbmvax.UUCP (Dave Haynie) (10/14/88)
in article <822@super.ORG>, rminnich@duper.super.org (Ronald G Minnich) says: > This is interesting. Now the Amiga is being compared to the NeXT machine > and found wanting. True. You'll need a 68030 accelerator, and Hedley hires, to get into the NeXT ballpark. I guess you'll need an optical disk, though why I'd want to trade in my 18ms hard disk for a 96ms optical disk needs further explanation. > The price of the machines the amiga gets compared to keeps going > up, but the Amiga never seems to do any better. No fair. As long as the price of the machines we get compared to keeps going up, and the comparisons stay at or near the same level, we're gaining ground, though in a rather convoluted fashion (or do I need that shiny new Motorola DSP chip to do convolutions)? > On the other hand, it is clear that the flock of hackers who > were attracted to the amiga (like, uh, leo? he has been asking about > it on alt.next ... sob) may now flock to the NeXT machine. As I hear it, they're all enrolling in college now. > C= is going to have to do something soon ... very soon indeed. Don't worry -- be happy. > I had thought about getting an A2000 system at SRC, but institutional > resistance makes it clear that getting a NeXT machine will be much easier- > it, after all, runs Mach, a grown-up operating system. I'm growing older, but not up My metabolic rate is pleasantly stuck. Let those winds of change blow over my head I'd rather die while I'm living, then live while I'm dead. -Jimmy Buffett For those who want a STANDARD operating system, we'll be offering UNIX System V Release 3.1 for '020 based Amigas before many NeXTs are shipped. For getting real work done, though, I personally perfer a fast real-time operating system like the Amiga OS. > The amiga window is closing fast. It seems the MAC II types and the Amiga types > here can agree that NeXT is probably an acceptable compromise. Naaa! We Amiga types and I'm sure Mac II types have computers to use right now. > ron -- Dave Haynie "The 32 Bit Guy" Commodore-Amiga "The Crew That Never Rests" {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!daveh PLINK: D-DAVE H BIX: hazy "I can't relax, 'cause I'm a Boinger!"
root@sbcs.sunysb.edu (root) (10/14/88)
In article <AXJKity00V4DI10kxo@andrew.cmu.edu>, rg20+@andrew.cmu.edu (Rick Francis Golembiewski) writes: > Plus, with the NeXT Machine just being released, ask your self this: How Long > is it going to take > for it to have descent software (I mean software WRITTEN for the machine, not > some PD UNIX > stuff ported over), look the Amiga's been out for almost 4 years and just now > is the software begining Probably the same amount of time it took to see native Amiga applications after that machine was introduced. > would be nice, but I can live without it, mostly) , GOOD graphics and sound (Go > and use an Apple > II+ for a while and tell me about BAD graphics...) and it is of comprable speed > (Maybe not as fast > as a Mac II or 386 in pure processor power, but it fairs pretty well compared > to the SE, and an AT) > so all in all the Amiga is STILL a good machine. You CAN buy better machines, Which Amiga are you talking about. The one I have here has pretty bad color graphics, eg interlaced 640x400x16 color vs the VGA 640x480 non interlaced 16 color. I find the claim that the Amiga 68000 is as fast as the Mac-II 68020 pretty interesting too :-) > but hey if you > REALLY want power go pick up a sun 4 or a Cray ;-) , but I bet that you can't > get one for near > the cost of the amiga. Look, people are not telling you to lump your Amiga and buy a NeXT machine. For universities it may ulimately make sense to lump their Sun systems in favor of the NeXT since (if Sun does nothing at all) the NeXT provides more bang for the buck. And please don't remind me that a 3/50 costs ~$3600 to universities - we have ~60 of them here. The *actual* cost of a 3/50 diskless is about $7600 when you amortize in the cost of a disk server. The people marketing the 2500UX have also basically taken a torpedo amidships too as not only is the system less than what a 3/50 gives you, it now has NeXT to reckon with. > +------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > ---------+ > | Disclaimer: Me? Post That, impossible I never post anything... > | > | TypetoYouLater(Everyone); --> "functional Good bye".... > | > | Rick Golembiewski [ Pronounciation is half the Battle, spelling the other] > | > +------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > ---------+ Rick Spanbauer SUNY/Stony Brook
lupin3@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (-=/ Larry Hastings /=-) (10/15/88)
+-In article <8810141735.AA28542@cory.Berkeley.EDU>, | dillon@CORY.BERKELEY.EDU (Matt Dillon) wrote:- +---------- | Jobs also said that the new laser printer (400dpi low-cost LP) | would only work with the NeXT machine. Frankly, the results of such a | statement should be obvious: | | (1) Demand for an equivalent LP of similar power will increase | (2) Nobody can currently buy Jobs' new machine (or may not want | to) and thus cannot get Jobs' printer | (3) One or more of the other LP companies (IBM/compatible world) | will see the demand and come out with a 400dpi+ low cost LP. | (4) Jobs will have lost a market in low cost LPs that he could have | stolen because he has it *now*. | +---------- Apparently it wasn't obvious enough; you missed the fact that Jobs couldn't lose a market he never could have had. The reason why the NeXT laser printer is going to be so cheap is because it isn't going to do any processing; it will just put the image on the paper. The NeXT machine itself processes the PostScript and makes the image; this saves on redundant PS hardware/software. This is what makes the Atari Laser Printer cheap; it is just a printer engine with a little smarts. Same with the NeXT LP. -- /|\ /|\ .. . . . . . . . . . . | |\| |\| .. . . . . . . . . . . |/|\|/|\|/|| _ _ _ _ |_| _ _ |_ -__ _ _ARPA: lupin3@ucscb.ucsc.EDU | |/| |/|L_ (_\( ( (_/ | |(_\_) (_ || )(_)_)UUCP: *!ucbvax!ucscc!ucscb!lupin3 \|/ \|/ larry / hastings _/ WORK: sun!acad!metaware!funkster MetaWare "I'm hovering like a fly, waiting for the windshield on the freeway." IncorporateDisclaimer:[MetaWare, UCSC]->opinion!=lhastings->opinion\\\Genesis
ejkst@cisunx.UUCP (Eric J. Kennedy) (10/17/88)
In article <1705@sbcs.sunysb.edu> root@sbcs.sunysb.edu (root) writes: > The people marketing the 2500UX have also basically taken a torpedo > amidships too as not only is the system less than what a 3/50 gives > you, it now has NeXT to reckon with. But I don't particularly _want_ a NeXT. (I mean I do, but, realistically, it would be wasted on me.) What's more, even if I wanted one, I wouldn't be able to get one. I don't particularly want a Sun 3/50, either, since I don't happen to have a fileserver w/ethernet laying around, nor the money to equip the 3/50. What's more, even if I wanted one, it would cost me a lot more than the $3500 mentioned above, plus the cost of a hard disk. On the other hand, I _do_ want an Amiga 2500. And as long as I have that, it's not that big a deal (hopefully, haven't seen prices yet) to get Unix with it. (basically Peter's argument) I suspect I'm not alone. Now, if you're talking about university markets, you have a point. But aside from that, I really don't see how NeXT is going to hurt the Amiga. -- +-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ Eric Kennedy | Bush & | ejkst@cisunx.UUCP | Bentsen '88 !! | +-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+
mce@tc.fluke.COM (Brian McElhinney) (10/19/88)
In article <8810141735.AA28542@cory.Berkeley.EDU> dillon@CORY.BERKELEY.EDU (Matt Dillon) writes: > What we are left with is simply a good engineering job with a >25MHz 68030 in it. I would hardly call this a quantum leap. Any new commercial product can be dissected like this. After all, if it's commercial, the parts must be somewhat commonly available. Does that mean no product can be a quantum leap? The whole is more than the sum of it's parts; a machine with a 256 MB "floppy", DSP chip, 16 bit D/A, 8 bit A/D, 256 KB cache, 12 DMA channels, and the "usual" screen/mouse/keyboard *is* a quantum leap. Nothing made by SUN or Apollo or Commodore or Apple compares. Of course, NeXT isn't actually making any either... only time will tell. The place where the NeXT design should really shine is in I/O. If you like multiprocessing, you gotta like 12 DMA channels! Choosing only the university marketplace may be seen, in the long run, as a Good Idea. It could give NeXT time to polish the software, and manufacturing line, while still making sales in a marketplace less sensitive to the related problems. And unlike some other computer manufacturers, the price of a NeXT machine is likely to go down. Speculating on the "real" commercial price is interesting, but useless. As for the laser printer, I doubt any third party will make a generic $2000 400 dpi Postscript printer any time soon. To be generic, you would need both a CPU capable of running Postcript, and a licence from Adobe to run it. The NeXT printer needs neither of these, as the main cube is used instead. Brian McElhinney mce@tc.fluke.com