sjg00257@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (10/07/88)
I am a Computer Engineer at U of I in Champaign and presently don't own a computer. My dad and many friends own IBM compatibles, but I like what I see in the Amiga system. I heard word from an Amiga owning friend that the 68020 based Amiga is coming eventually and I would like to hold out for it. Does anybody out there know of any rumors on the proposed release date on this machine. Also, I am VERY interested in how much it will cost and what features it will have. I know that I saw some of this info in amiga.tech, but I think that this is probably a better forum for the info that I need. If the release date is really distant (or the price is), I might end up getting the Amiga 2000 anyway. Any input appreciated. Scott Garrett University of Illinois - Urbana-Champaign
jms@antares.UUCP (joe smith) (10/09/88)
In article <111400004@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu> sjg00257@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu writes: > I heard word from an Amiga owning friend that the 68020 based Amiga is > coming eventually and I would like to hold out for it. > If the release date is really distant (or the price is), I might end up > getting the Amiga 2000 anyway. JimM has said many times "Don't put off buying an A2000 waiting for an A2500". There will not be a new motherboard or anything like that; the A2500 is just an A2000 with a 68020 in the coprocessor slot with 32-bit memory. So anyone who buys an Amiga 2000 now will be able to convert it to an A2500; don't deny yourself the use of this fine machine waiting for the A2500 package to arrive at the dealers. -- +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | TYMNET:JMS@F29 CA:"POPJ P," UUCP:{ames|pyramid}oliveb!tymix!antares!jms | | INTERNET: (Office-1.ARPA is no more) PHONE:Joe Smith @ (408)922-6220 | +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
thad@cup.portal.com (10/10/88)
The card for which you're holding-out is the A2620 (68020/68881/68851) from
CBM. It was demo'd at a trade fair in Germany earlier this year; availability
in the USA is up to CBM.
The CSA (Computer System Associates) 68020/68881 cards and accessories (incl.
even a 68030/68882) have been available since early 1986; I checked my
depreciation tables and I actually paid for mine (for the A1000) in July 1986
though I had been using it for months ("on approval") before that.
Ronin Engineering (Berkeley, CA) also manufactures a 68020/68881 card for
the A1000 and the A2000; available are 68030 upgrades and up to 4MByte (16MB
when 1024Kx4 chips are readily available) 32-bit-wide RAM.
I have both CSA and Ronin cards operating in my systems and I'm pleased with
both, though I tend to favor the Ronin at this time.
It is NOT clear (to me) whether future CBM enhancements (e.g. Ami/UNIX) will
function with OTHER than the A2620, so if that's important to you, you may
wish to wait (or have someone buy it for you in Germany).
Summary: 68020 and 68030 with 68881 or 68882 plug-ins are and have been
available for some time for *ALL* Amiga models (CSA mfgs one for the A500 too).
Thad Floryan [thad@cup.portal.com (OR) ...!sun!portal!cup.portal.com!thad]daveh@cbmvax.UUCP (Dave Haynie) (10/10/88)
in article <111400004@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu>, sjg00257@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu says: > Nf-ID: #N:uxa.cso.uiuc.edu:111400004:000:829 > Nf-From: uxa.cso.uiuc.edu!sjg00257 Oct 6 14:24:00 1988 > Does anybody out there know of any rumors on the proposed release date > on this machine. Also, I am VERY interested in how much it will cost and > what features it will have. I know that I saw some of this info in > amiga.tech, but I think that this is probably a better forum for the info > that I need. The only announced 68020 product from Commodore is the A2620, which is a 68020 based coprocessor board for the Amiga 2000. While I haven't heard a release date on it yet (I just design the things, don't sell 'em), they could very easily be out on dealer shelves in a month or two. This board plugs into the Coprocessor slot of the A2000, which was designed to house just such a board. Along with the 68020 are 68881 FPU, 68851 MMU, and your choice of 2 or 4 megabytes of 32 bit wide DRAM. > If the release date is really distant (or the price is), I might end up > getting the Amiga 2000 anyway. You could get the A2000 now, the 68020 later. > Any input appreciated. Scott Garrett > University of Illinois - > Urbana-Champaign Hey, I was just out at University of Illinois, speaking to the Commodore and Amiga user group that meets there. You should have stopped by, coulda seen the whole A2620 thing in action. -- Dave Haynie "The 32 Bit Guy" Commodore-Amiga "The Crew That Never Rests" {ihnp4|uunet|rutgers}!cbmvax!daveh PLINK: D-DAVE H BIX: hazy "I can't relax, 'cause I'm a Boinger!"
daveh@cbmvax.UUCP (Dave Haynie) (10/11/88)
in article <9897@cup.portal.com>, thad@cup.portal.com says: > XPortal-User-Id: 1.1001.2826 > Ronin Engineering (Berkeley, CA) also manufactures a 68020/68881 card for > the A1000 and the A2000; available are 68030 upgrades and up to 4MByte (16MB > when 1024Kx4 chips are readily available) 32-bit-wide RAM. I've written a review of this card, which will be in the next issue of Amiga Sentry magazine. I looked at both 68020 and 68030 equipped boards, with and without 32 bit memory, and with several speeds of 68881 chip. Some of the benchmark programs I used are freely redistributable; I'm collecting others in the hopes of having a reasonable freely redistributable benchmarking suite for Amiga. Benchmarks are often questioned when run between different CPUs/OS/Compiler combinations, but they are much harder to debate when it's identical OS/Compiler/Software running on slightly different 68020 card implementations. > It is NOT clear (to me) whether future CBM enhancements (e.g. Ami/UNIX) will > function with OTHER than the A2620, so if that's important to you, you may > wish to wait (or have someone buy it for you in Germany). You'll absolutely need an MMU for running UNIX, so that excludes all 68020 based products except for the A2620. A 68030 system could conceivably run UNIX, but there's no CBM support for that in UNIX at the moment. This isn't to be intentionally hostile, but the A2620 has certain ROM code and registers that are used by the Commodore UNIX system. > Summary: 68020 and 68030 with 68881 or 68882 plug-ins are and have been > available for some time for *ALL* Amiga models (CSA mfgs one for the A500 too). The Ronin board is also available in A1000 flavor. > Thad Floryan [thad@cup.portal.com (OR) ...!sun!portal!cup.portal.com!thad] -- Dave Haynie "The 32 Bit Guy" Commodore-Amiga "The Crew That Never Rests" {ihnp4|uunet|rutgers}!cbmvax!daveh PLINK: D-DAVE H BIX: hazy "I can't relax, 'cause I'm a Boinger!"
tope@enea.se (Tommy Petersson) (10/12/88)
In article <9897@cup.portal.com> thad@cup.portal.com writes:
.stuff deleted
:Ronin Engineering (Berkeley, CA) also manufactures a 68020/68881 card for
:the A1000 and the A2000; available are 68030 upgrades and up to 4MByte (16MB
:when 1024Kx4 chips are readily available) 32-bit-wide RAM.
.more deleted
Can anyone tell the prizes (if they are stable enough in five minutes)
of 32-bit RAM that would fit for a 68020 card? A company here in Sweden
sells a card for the Amiga 2000 without processor and memory. How many
ns should the memory be, and what are the part numbers ? (I think the
board was made for 256K chips).ewhac@well.UUCP (Leo 'Bols Ewhac' Schwab) (10/13/88)
In article <4973@cbmvax.UUCP> daveh@cbmvax.UUCP (Dave Haynie) writes: >You'll absolutely need an MMU for running UNIX, so that excludes all 68020 >based products except for the A2620. A 68030 system could conceivably run >UNIX, but there's no CBM support for that in UNIX at the moment. This isn't >to be intentionally hostile, but the A2620 has certain ROM code and >registers that are used by the Commodore UNIX system. > Please O please O please O *PLEASE* support the 68030. It is in your best interest to do so. Proof: N people currently own the Ronin or CSA '030 daughterboard. These N people have invested a considerable amount of $$$, not only in the daughterboard and the '030 chip itself, but in the 68020 board that it's sitting on. These people will also be very interested in being able to run UNIX when it becomes available. However, these people will be extremely disinclined to throw away their investment in CPU hardware just to buy an A2620 so they can run UNIX. They will instead come to this network and flame the living daylights out of you for forcing them to buy your hardware. These N people know that their (*expensive*) hardware is fully capable of running UNIX, provided they can get a hold of a UNIX to run on their hardware. If the only UNIX available runs only on your (as yet non-existent) hardware, they are going to feel screwed. Therefore, it is in your best interest to write your UNIX to run on '030-equipped systems. QED. _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ Leo L. Schwab -- The Guy in The Cape INET: well!ewhac@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU \_ -_ Recumbent Bikes: UUCP: pacbell > !{well,unicom}!ewhac O----^o The Only Way To Fly. hplabs / (pronounced "AE-wack") "Work FOR? I don't work FOR anybody! I'm just having fun." -- The Doctor
wbralick@afit-ab.arpa (William A. Bralick) (10/13/88)
In article <7361@well.UUCP> ewhac@well.UUCP (Leo 'Bols Ewhac' Schwab) writes: > Please O please O please O *PLEASE* support the 68030. It is in >your best interest to do so. Have you seen the product announcement for the NeXT machine on Comp.misc? It _seems_ that, yes, 68030 support would be advisable. However, it is also true that trying to hit a moving target (Who has what processor today? Are we targetting the same market segment? We are? Quick, call the engineers!), could be terminal :-) for your business. A 68020 with 32-bit memory and UN*X support would be wonderful, especially if coupled with hooks for 68030 support. Cordially, Will
hummel@s.cs.uiuc.edu (10/15/88)
Written 1:17 am Oct 13, 1988 by ewhac@well.UUCP in comp.sys.amiga: [ Leo aims a response at Dave Haynie regarding UNIX, hoping he'll accidently hit the right person at Commodore to be telling this to ] > Please O please O please O *PLEASE* support the 68030. It is in > your best interest to do so. When he spoke here last month, Dave [worth every penny of his $10,000 speaker's fee :-) :-) :-)] demo'd for us a prototype '030 board he had built as well as a 2620. One of the tales he told was how one of Commodore's UNIX people was running benchmarks on the '030 board (hint, hint) and had determined that it was "only" running at 32MHz. Well, it had turned out that Dave was using a 32MHz crystal on a 33MHz '030 because you don't ususally find 33MHz XTALs just lying around the lab (unless you're Motorola :-). So my guess - as someone who is pig ignorant of what Commodore is thinking behind closed doors - is that at least as far as Dave and the UNIX crew are probably concerned, UNIX can be supported on the '030. Mind you, although none of what I write here is secret - we (CUCUG) saw and heard all of this at an open meeting - it is not meant to imply that the '030 board is formally announced or that it will necessarily be a product or run UNIX. What I'm saying is that I don't think support for UNIX on the '030 is at issue ... only whether it runs on non-Commodore CPU's. Now, what I personally think is in everyone's best interests is for some third-party to port BSD 4.3 or MACH (!!) to run on any Amiga with a hard disk and MMU. If Commodore is going to sell UNIX, they must provide SVr3.x to satisfy its European and American business customers. So at least by keeping their UNIX proprietary, they have the options to: (1) Guarantee a private market for their own coprocessor boards. I don't think this is a particulary kind gesture, but that's the business world for you. (2) Provide support on only one hardware architecture. "Hi, I'm having trouble with xxxx when running your UNIX on Ronin's '030 board" is not something that Commodore can be expected to have the time or resources to deal with. After all, can you run A/UX on a Mac with a Levco Prodigy? Would Apple want to have to support it if you could? (3) Keep the incentive alive to actually develop a third-party UNIX. Preferably BSD 4.3 or MACH (you wouldn't really want to run SV anyway, would you Leo?-). < Lionel ---------- Lionel Hummel 404 W. High St., #6 ldh90267@uiucuxa.cso.uiuc.edu Urbana, IL 61801 {seismo,pur-ee,convex}!uiucuxa!ldh90267 (H) (217)344-5303 Dept. of Computer Science (W) (217)333-7408 University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign ---------------------------------------- Headline from this week's National Computer Science Enquirer: SOFTWARE REVOLUTION: Marxists scheme classless Smalltalk! #define disclaimer "I disclaim thee!"
dkhusema@faui44.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Dirk Husemann) (10/17/88)
From article <185@antares.UUCP>, by jms@antares.UUCP (joe smith): > > JimM has said many times "Don't put off buying an A2000 waiting for an A2500". > There will not be a new motherboard or anything like that; the A2500 is just > an A2000 with a 68020 in the coprocessor slot with 32-bit memory. So anyone > who buys an Amiga 2000 now will be able to convert it to an A2500; don't > deny yourself the use of this fine machine waiting for the A2500 package > to arrive at the dealers. Question: Will we ever see an Amiga 2500 (UX) in *real* life [I don't care about any of those Amiga 2500 (UX/AT)'s I can marvel - or don't marvel - at at exhibitions, the same is true for all those machines sitting around at CBM in their labs ...]? What price will we have to pay for? I agree, the Amiga 2000 *is* a great machine [No, I *don't* own an Amiga 2000 - I've a ST], but I'm not going to switch to it, unless I know I can get it as a 2500 (UX)! > -- > +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ > | TYMNET:JMS@F29 CA:"POPJ P," UUCP:{ames|pyramid}oliveb!tymix!antares!jms | > | INTERNET: (Office-1.ARPA is no more) PHONE:Joe Smith @ (408)922-6220 | > +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ ------------------ Smile, tomorrow will be worse! -------------- Email: dkhusema@immd4.informatik.uni-erlangen.de Or: {pyramid,unido}!fauern!faui44!dkhusema Mail: Dirk Husemann, Aufsess-Str. 19, D-8520 Erlangen, West Germany Phone: (Home) +49 9131 302036, (Business) +49 9131 857908 -- Beam me up, Scotty, there's no intelligent life down here! -- --------------- My opinions are mine, mine, mine ---------------
schabacker@frocky.dec.com (Tim, posting for C. Balzer) (10/20/88)
[Eats the line-eater only bracketed(sp?) lines?] In a recent article Thad Floryan (thad@cup.portal.com) writes: <stuff about various 680x0 boards deleted> >It is NOT clear (to me) whether future CBM enhancements (e.g. Ami/UNIX) will >function with OTHER than the A2620, so if that's important to you, you may >wish to wait (or have someone buy it for you in Germany). Although it's always nice to see you U.S. folks believing that Germany is some kind of technological "Wunderland", don't bother making flight reservations, since you can't get that board here, too. If it was available, I would have it!!! But due to my latest information from CBM Frankfurt, it should be out within a month, so there's hope for us folks. BTW, since the board was developed by Dave Haynie at West Chester (hi Dave!), it would seem a little more weird than the usual CBM chaos to ship it in Germany first. - <CB> -- _ _ / / | \ \ <CB> aka Christian Balzer - The Software Brewery - < < |-< > decwrl!frambo.dec.com!schabacker OR schabacker@frambo.dec.com \ \_ |_/ / CIS: 71001,210 (be brief!), Phone: +49 6150 4151 ------------ Snail: Im Wingertsberg 45, D-6108 Weiterstadt, F.R.G. "Eye to eye stand winners and looser, hurt by envy, cut by greed" From the song "Duel" by Propaganda
mikb@stcns3.stc.oz (Mike Benson) (10/21/88)
Will the A2620 (or any of the other '020, '030 boards) work in an
(old four-layer motherboard) A2000? Will I have to trash my current Ami to
get more CPU power?
?- Mike Benson.
--
Mike Benson +---------------+ mikb@stcns3.stc.OZ.AU
Alcatel-STC Pty Ltd | CAVEAT |
11th Floor, 5 Blue St | LECTOR | Any clod can have the facts,
North Sydney NSW 2060 AUSTRALIA +---------------+ but having opinions is an art.thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) (10/23/88)
To: "(Tim, posting for C.Balzer)"
It was my recollection of Max Toy's statements at the FAUG meeting he
attended earlier this year the A2620 (the 68020/68881/68851 card) would
be introduced in Europe (i.e. Germany) prior to USA introduction.
My suggestion ("...to buy it in Germany...") was based on the A2000 also
available in Germany before USA introduction.
CBM Frankfurt, hmm? Frankfurt/Main is my home town! Jawohl, y'all! :-)
Thad Floryan [thad@cup.portal.com (OR) ...!sun!portal!cup.portal.com!thad]daveh@cbmvax.UUCP (Dave Haynie) (10/24/88)
in article <952@stcns3.stc.oz>, mikb@stcns3.stc.oz (Mike Benson) says: > Keywords: 68020, A2000, ??? > Summary: Will it work with Obsolescent Hardware? > Will the A2620 (or any of the other '020, '030 boards) work in an > (old four-layer motherboard) A2000? The A2620 will work in the old A2000s. The 68000 will have to be removed, which means that you can't turn the 68000 back on, like on a new model 2000, but otherwise, it works just fine. > Mike Benson +---------------+ mikb@stcns3.stc.OZ.AU -- Dave Haynie "The 32 Bit Guy" Commodore-Amiga "The Crew That Never Rests" {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!daveh PLINK: D-DAVE H BIX: hazy Amiga -- It's not just a job, it's an obsession
space@sns.UUCP (Lars Soltau) (10/27/88)
In article <5083@cbmvax.UUCP> daveh@cbmvax.UUCP (Dave Haynie) writes: >The A2620 will work in the old A2000s. The 68000 will have to be >removed, which means that you can't turn the 68000 back on, like on >a new model 2000, but otherwise, it works just fine. Hey, I do have a new 2000, and what you tell us about being able to turn the 68020 off once more makes up my mind to wait for the Commodore 68020 card. I would be much more patient, however, if you could tell me when it is going to be released. -- Lars Soltau UUCP: ...uunet!unido!sns!space BIX: -- no bucks -- Here's looking at you, kid! -- the Medusa