drpierce@well.UUCP (11/23/86)
Hi everyone! Just wanted to say that comp.sources.amiga has not really
become a black hole, were just having some problems posting to a few groups,
the amiga ones included. That is why I am posting from the well instead
of my usual hangout. The problem should be fixed soon, so stay tuned
for alot of neat stuff!
-Craig Norborg
comp.sources.amiga moderator
doc@j.cc.purdue.edudoc@j.cc.purdue.edu.UUCP (01/16/87)
Here is the word from my news administrator. I have informed Larry
Wall also, so everything should work itself out. If you do not have
the newsgroup comp.sources.amiga on your machine, please ask your news
administrator to create the group. The mod.*.amiga groups are no
longer functional and you should not expect to recieve any news in
these groups. If after the changeover is complete, and the problem
still persists, we will at that time send out a newgrp message. I will
wait about a week for everyone to be able to check and begin posting
to the group again.
Thanx for you patience,
Craig Norborg
comp.sources.amiga moderatorlwall@sdcrdcf.UUCP (Larry Wall) (01/20/87)
In article <2950@j.cc.purdue.edu> doc@j.cc.purdue.edu (Craig Norborg) writes:
=>
=> Here is the word from my news administrator. I have informed Larry
=> Wall also, so everything should work itself out. If you do not have
=> the newsgroup comp.sources.amiga on your machine, please ask your news
=> administrator to create the group. The mod.*.amiga groups are no
=> longer functional and you should not expect to recieve any news in
=> these groups. If after the changeover is complete, and the problem
=> still persists, we will at that time send out a newgrp message. I will
=> wait about a week for everyone to be able to check and begin posting
=> to the group again.
=> Thanx for you patience,
=> Craig Norborg
=> comp.sources.amiga moderator
I don't know what I've been informed of. Or how informing me of it is
supposed to cause everything to work out.
Furthermore, the net gods have not yet made a decision about turning on
moderated groups that aren't mod.* groups. The above message may or may
not turn out to be true. Tune in tomorrow for the next episode of
"As the Distribution: world Churns."
Larry Wall
{allegra,burdvax,cbosgd,hplabs,ihnp4,sdcsvax}!sdcrdcf!lwallgrr@cbmvax.cbm.UUCP (George Robbins) (01/23/87)
In article <2950@j.cc.purdue.edu> doc@j.cc.purdue.edu (Craig Norborg) writes: > > Here is the word from my news administrator. I have informed Larry >Wall also, so everything should work itself out. If you do not have >the newsgroup comp.sources.amiga on your machine, please ask your news >administrator to create the group. The mod.*.amiga groups are no >longer functional and you should not expect to recieve any news in >these groups. > Craig Norborg Sorry Craig, but somebody's confused here: The comp.sources.amiga group doesn't exist. It's not on the official list of groups distributed monthly to the news.admin group. This means that even if one locally creates it, there is no distribution and no news will appear. The mod.sources.amiga group does exist on much of the net and is still on the official list of groups. This means that if you manage to successfully post news to this group, then it *should* arrive throughout most of the net. Obviously there is some problem, or you wouldn't be gaining this 'black hole' reputation. I suspect that somehow postings to mod.sources.amiga from your site are not making it out to the net. Peeking at the net maps, purdue only exchanges news with a few sites, none of them backbones. Someone is not passing your postings on... What to do? Arrange for pur-ee to feed just your newsgroup to a backbone site that you talk to! Maybe send a message to mark@cbosgd (Mark Horton). If this fails, setting up limited feeds to a couple of sites, with some commitment to the amiga, would provide enough redundancy to insure your postings get out. cbmvax could do this, although we're trying to keep a low profile, and I suspect hoptoad could be persuaded also. Comments on this are welcome, but the details are best handled via e-mail. Any other volunteers to help with distribution? Helps to be news admin... -- George Robbins - now working for, uucp: {ihnp4|seismo|rutgers}!cbmvax!grr but no way officially representing arpa: cbmvax!grr@seismo.css.GOV Commodore, Engineering Department fone: 215-431-9255 (only by moonlite)
page@ulowell.UUCP (01/24/87)
lwall@sdcrdcf.UUCP (Larry Wall) wrote in article <3830@sdcrdcf.UUCP>: >Furthermore, the net gods have not yet made a decision about turning on >moderated groups that aren't mod.* groups. The above message may or may >not turn out to be true. At a meeting of Usenet admins during USENIX, it was decided to start the renaming of the mod.* groups. This means mod.amiga.sources will become a comp group, but will still be moderated. It also means that mod.amiga and comp.sys.amiga will be merged into comp.sys.amiga, and will be moderated. I do not know the timetable for the changeover, but expect to see it sometime soon. Some groups may convert faster than others (I expect the amiga, mac, and sources groups to put up a fight). Furthermore, any discussion of the change should occur in news.groups, NOT comp.sys.amiga, so followups should go there. ..Bob -- Bob Page, U of Lowell CS Dept. ulowell!page, page@ulowell.CSNET
cmcmanis@sun.UUCP (01/26/87)
In article <972@ulowell.edu>, page@ulowell.cs.ulowell.edu (Bob Page) writes: > > ... It also means > that mod.amiga and comp.sys.amiga will be merged into comp.sys.amiga, > and will be moderated. > -- > Bob Page, U of Lowell CS Dept. ulowell!page, page@ulowell.CSNET Please, tell me it isn't so! No, I am not worried about "censorship" or other people controlling my messages, I am worried that every moderated group on usenet is a friggin black hole. I am sure there is some statistical equation to describe the chances that a message will make it to any point on the net, especially to the moderators machine, and then make it out again. Frankly I think it is damn near zero. Has *any* moderated group on this network *ever* worked? Not that I know of, and why force umpty ump thousand people to go with out any sort of information because one site lost an RP06. My vote, if there is an ice cube's chance in hell that it will matter, is to keep two groups. One moderated and one not moderated, that way there will at least be a backup group available. -- --Chuck McManis uucp: {anywhere}!sun!cmcmanis BIX: cmcmanis ARPAnet: cmcmanis@sun.com These opinions are my own and no one elses, but you knew that didn't you.
eric@ektools.UUCP (01/28/87)
In article <12089@sun.uucp> cmcmanis@sun.uucp (Chuck McManis) writes: >In article <972@ulowell.edu>, page@ulowell.cs.ulowell.edu (Bob Page) writes: >> ... It also means >> that mod.amiga and comp.sys.amiga will be merged into comp.sys.amiga, >> and will be moderated. >> -- >> Bob Page, U of Lowell CS Dept. ulowell!page, page@ulowell.CSNET >Please, tell me it isn't so! >My vote, if there is an ice cube's chance in hell >that it will matter, is to keep two groups. One moderated and one not >moderated, that way there will at least be a backup group available. >-- >--Chuck McManis I would also like to add my vote in agreement! eric... %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Eric M. Kleinpaste ...seismo!rochester!kodak!ektools!eric Eastman Kodak Company %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
dalem@hpfcph.UUCP (01/29/87)
I second Chuck's concern. It is important that we not lose our
unmoderated group.
Yes, I know that groups are supposed to be discussed in a newgroup reserved
specifically for that. However, it seems that the very survival of this one
is at stake.
Dale McCluskey
{hplabs,ihnp4}!hpfcla!dalemberry@well.UUCP (01/29/87)
.edu> <12089@sun.uucp> <531@ektools.UUCP> Sender: Reply-To: berry@well.UUCP (John Thomas Berry) Followup-To: Distribution: Organization: Whole Earth Lectronic Link, Sausalito CA Keywords: Please, please, please do not make comp.sys.amiga a moderated group. That would stifle a tremendous amount of important discussion of vital information which is simply not available elsewhere.
stever@videovax.UUCP (01/30/87)
In article <3870003@hpfcph.HP.COM>, Dale McCluskey (dalem@hpfcph.HP.COM) writes: > I second Chuck's concern. It is important that we not lose our > unmoderated group. > > Yes, I know that groups are supposed to be discussed in a newgroup reserved > specifically for that. However, it seems that the very survival of this one ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > is at stake. ^^^^^^^^^^^ Posting a message to comp.sys.amiga saying, "I second Chuck's concern. It is important that we not lose our unmoderated group," will not help ensure the survival of comp.sys.amiga as an unmoderated group! The people who make the decisions watch the newsgroup "news.groups" (catchy name, eh??) for such comments. If you want to let the Amiga fraternity know how upset you are, post to comp.sys.amiga. But if you want your message to be read by those who will decide the future of comp.sys.amiga, post the message to news.groups. You can also cross-post to both groups by putting both newsgroup names on the "Newsgroups:" line (no spaces are allowed between group names!): Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga,news.groups This will let you vent your feelings of outrage to a sympathetic audience, while also letting those who make the decisions know that you care. Steve Rice ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- {decvax | hplabs | ihnp4 | uw-beaver}!tektronix!videovax!stever
doc@j.cc.purdue.edu.UUCP (04/08/87)
Ok, here is the current state of comp.sources.amiga and
comp.binaries amiga. A newgrp was sent out about a week and a half
ago, that did not seem to get very far judging by the response to my
test message. Because of this, another newgrp was sent out, for both
comp.sources.amiga and comp.binaries.amiga. From the response to my
test messages, I am going to assume that this one made it. If it has
not made it to your site as of yet, first off, be patient, it should
get their. If it is not their within a week, please contact YOUR news
administrator. Also, please do NOT reply to these test messages if you
haven't done so already. I want to thank everyone who did, it gave
me a good idea of how far it has made it and shows me who is watching
the group! (BTW, the most origional reply goes to mark@cogent... ;-)
Now, I would like to give you all some info on how to get your
submissions to me. If your running on a news 2.11 site, all you should
have to do is try and post the article and it should forward the
article via mail to me for posting. If your not running news 2.11, I
will first plea that you get your news administrator to update the
software ;-) Second, I will tell you that you can send me your
postings directly by sending them to:
UUCP: ihnp4!pur-ee!j.cc.purdue.edu!amiga-sources-request
ARPA: amiga-sources-request@j.cc.purdue.edu (or doc@asc.cc.purdue.edu)
If you want it to go to the binaries group, just substitute binaries
for sources in the address.
And, last but not least, if you are going to be posting articles, I
would like you to include some minimal information in your postings:
A breif description of the program.
What compiler you compiled it with.
Any hints/suggestions for compiling with other compilers.
What version(s) of Kickstart/Workbench does it work with.
What type of program do you consider it (game, utility, tutorial, etc.)
Any other info you consider to be important.
If you are posting a revision to a program that has been posted to the
net previously, I would like to know if you have forwarded your
additions or bug-fixes to the origional author already. If not, I will
take the liberty to do so.
Thanx, and hope to hear from ya soon!
Craig Norborgandy@cbmvax.UUCP (Andy Finkel) (04/26/88)
Due to the problems that the amiga source newsgroup
has been having (to the point where sources and binaries
are beginning to appear here once again) possibly the
sources group could become unmoderated ? That might
reduce the backlog somewhat. Which might let them
concentrate on the binaries group, which is (in my opinion)
the one that needs moderation. If you have source, after
all, your trust level is higher than when faced with a
mystery binary. ("Run me and I'll reorganize your hard disk")
Aside from the problem of non-sources appearing there
(which would have to be handled by group pressure, much
as the way the new tech group is being handled, at least
until we have news software that can automatically direct
followups to a different newsgroup) and a possible increase
in the number of sources that get posted (which may not be a
bad thing) why not ?
andy
--
andy finkel {ihnp4|seismo|allegra}!cbmvax!andy
Commodore-Amiga, Inc.
"C combines the power of assembly language with the flexibility of
assembly language."
Any expressed opinions are mine; but feel free to share.
I disclaim all responsibilities, all shapes, all sizes, all colors.kent@xanth.cs.odu.edu (Kent Paul Dolan) (04/29/88)
In article <3696@cbmvax.UUCP> andy@cbmvax.UUCP (Andy Finkel) writes: > >Due to the problems that the amiga source newsgroup >has been having (to the point where sources and binaries >are beginning to appear here once again) possibly the >sources group could become unmoderated ? That might >reduce the backlog somewhat. Which might let them >concentrate on the binaries group, which is (in my opinion) >the one that needs moderation. If you have source, after >all, your trust level is higher than when faced with a >mystery binary. ("Run me and I'll reorganize your hard disk") > >Aside from the problem of non-sources appearing there >(which would have to be handled by group pressure, much >as the way the new tech group is being handled, at least >until we have news software that can automatically direct >followups to a different newsgroup) and a possible increase >in the number of sources that get posted (which may not be a >bad thing) why not ? > > andy >-- >andy finkel {ihnp4|seismo|allegra}!cbmvax!andy >Commodore-Amiga, Inc. > >"C combines the power of assembly language with the flexibility of > assembly language." > >Any expressed opinions are mine; but feel free to share. >I disclaim all responsibilities, all shapes, all sizes, all colors. Please, NO! We already have (again; twice a year cycle?) reports of sites losing comp.sys.amiga because the "five day storage requirements for articles is too high", and right into the teeth of that, kim had to post 554K of arp stuff in the wrong newsgroup, which, among other things, blew away the info-amiga internet gateway for a week. Could we PLEASE try a little self discipline here? The discussion groups are not for posting software and docs, they are not for design sessions and long drawn out arguments that belong in email, they are places for brief questions (and brief answers only if email is _very_ _obviously_ inappropriate, or just can't be made to work after actually trying a couple of times to build a working address from the article header information) and announcements of interest to the Amiga community. I think we ought to try "answer by email, only original questioner gets to put (a summary of the answers) on the net, and if she doesn't, ignore succeeding questions" as the default behavior, and see if we can cut the "one question to fifty answers, most of them wrong" interaction ratio here. I don't just preach that line, lots and lots of you have gotten email help from this mailbox. My Amiga and I are constant companions, but I don't even pretend to read most of the articles here any more. I just automatically hit "k" the fourth time I see the same subject after "Re:", and I bet I'm pretty typical, so if you are publishing the twentieth followup, you are writing for an audience of one. If we open comp.sources.amiga to free-for-all posting, we are going to lose the group; many sites already refuse to carry it because of the volume. The moderators have been providing lots of services; quality control like compiling and testing software, repackaging it in user friendly packages, and, VERY important, buffering the group volume to prevent blowing away site file restrictions. They seem to have their posting truncation problems isolated and fixed, and the pipeline is pumping again (to the detriment of my sleep and blank floppy supply ;-) so let's not toss in a monkey wrench right now. No one is so much in need of either free software or free fame that even a six week break in posting is life threatening. Besides everything else, both posting software/docs in the comp.sys.amiga discussion groups and unmoderated posting in comp.sources.amiga means we lose the archive facility the moderators are struggling to set up even as we post. Andy, you are a great guy to have around, you do a wonderful service to the USENet Amiga community, I love you like a brother, and with 40 meg of compressed, arced, or zooed 1200 baud downloads sitting next to me here on floppies, I'm an Amiga source/binary/docs junky of the first order, but this is a BAD IDEA. Sorry! Kent, the man from xanth.
peter@sugar.UUCP (Peter da Silva) (04/29/88)
In article <3696@cbmvax.UUCP>, andy@cbmvax.UUCP (Andy Finkel) writes:
that it would be a good idea to unmoderate the sources group.
I don't think this is a bad idea, though it'd take a while to do and
take a while to undo if comp.sources.amiga became a strain.
Are there any unmoderated sources groups left on the net?
--
-- Peter da Silva `-_-' ...!hoptoad!academ!uhnix1!sugar!peter
-- "Have you hugged your U wolf today?" ...!bellcore!tness1!sugar!peter
-- Disclaimer: These aren't mere opinions, these are *values*.richard@gryphon.CTS.COM (Richard Sexton) (05/01/88)
Andy has a fine idea. Unmoderate the sources group and lets try it for a while.
Waiting for Rico's font convertot for 2 months because the moderators
goofed and couldnt get it to work was really painfull. And I dont
know about xanth, but we havnt exactly ben seeing an overwhelming
volume of source/binary postings here... maybe 2 or 3 a week. If
were lucky.
We can always go back to moderated, if it proves to be a problem.
Keeping the binary group moderated is still very important, not for
the usual reasons for moderators, but to see if your boot block is
still the same after running the program. 1/2 :-)
And Kent, if you're so worried about volume, why do yo insist
on following up 40K postings in talk.bizarre and adding 1 line ?
Over and over again.
Why dont you get your site to not receive t.b, and then you'd
have plenty of bandwhich for sources.
Maybe some doilies ?
--
Just a flaming nincompetent poop kinda guy
richard@gryphon.CTS.COM rutgers!marque!gryphon!richardDMasterson@cup.portal.com (05/02/88)
Interesting idea about unmoderating the sources group. Personally, I'm not too in favor of it, but I'm willing to be convinced. Having one place to go for sources makes sense to me. Perhaps an idea that is being used by the sun-spots digest would be in order. They use an archive server to allow people to request the particular set of sources they desire. Then all the moderators have to do is post an updated listing of what sources (or binaries) are available. I'm sure that the server could even be set to automatically post a set of sources to the net if it gets too many requests for them in a short time. Think about it... David Masterson DMasterson@cup.portal.com
doug-merritt@cup.portal.com (05/03/88)
Kent recently pointed out that sources and docs do not belong
in this group. I'd have to agree.
He also says that discussions and design sessions (presumably like
IPC) should not occur on the net, but instead should take place via
email. I disagree for two reasons. 1) Email is extremely unreliable;
the "standard" figure (i.e. the one I hear the most) is that 40%
of replies get bounced. Seems higher to me; clearly it varies. And
2) I don't see anything in news.announce.newusers, nor in news.groups,
that supports this opinion. I agree that brevity is a great thing, but
I can't see how you could insist that it's the only thing.
Or at least, not without starting a long discussion! :-)
Doug Merritt ucbvax!sun.com!cup.portal.com!doug-merritt
or ucbvax!eris!doug (doug@eris.berkeley.edu)
or ucbvax!unisoft!certes!dougewhac@well.UUCP (Leo 'Bols Ewhac' Schwab) (11/02/88)
[ Now, repeat after me: "OS/2 sucks." Try it; it's easy. "OS/2 sucks." ]
I know how good compliments feel, so I try to give them out when I
remember to.
It's been -- what? -- two weeks since Bob Page took over
comp.sources.amiga, and the traffic there has been wonderful. Zillions of
useful pieces of code are now floating around just asking to be downloaded.
I've already grabbed NoKlickStart1.3 (now if I could just make it work with
the version Reichart gave me (different checksum)).
Anyway, I think Bob's doing a great job. Thanks for the work, Bob.
_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
Leo L. Schwab -- The Guy in The Cape INET: well!ewhac@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU
\_ -_ Recumbent Bikes: UUCP: pacbell > !{well,unicom}!ewhac
O----^o The Only Way To Fly. hplabs / (pronounced "AE-wack")
"Work FOR? I don't work FOR anybody! I'm just having fun." -- The Doctortadguy@cs.odu.edu (Tad Guy) (11/03/88)
In article <7531@well.UUCP>, ewhac@well (Leo 'Bols Ewhac' Schwab) writes: > It's been -- what? -- two weeks since Bob Page took over >comp.sources.amiga, and the traffic there has been wonderful. Zillions of >useful pieces of code are now floating around just asking to be downloaded. > > Anyway, I think Bob's doing a great job. Thanks for the work, Bob. What's even more important is that Bob includes the correct headers in his postings to allow for easy automatic archiving. I didn't have to change my sources archiving program at all to automatically collect everything in comp.*.amiga. He's doing an excellent job. ...tad Tad Guy <tadguy@cs.odu.edu> Old Dominion University, Norfolk, VA
page@swan.ulowell.edu (Bob Page) (11/03/88)
ewhac@well.UUCP (Leo 'Bols Ewhac' Schwab) wrote: >I've already grabbed NoKlickStart1.3 (now if I could just make it work with >the version Reichart gave me (different checksum)). Might be a bad version of noKLICKstart - try the new one or hack the disk with an editor (see the source code). If you're trying to hack KS1.2.1 then noKLICKstart won't work - send me mail. >Anyway, I think Bob's doing a great job. Thanks for the work, Bob. Thanks, and you're welcome. Want a matrix laboratory? ..Bob -- Bob Page, U of Lowell CS Dept. page@swan.ulowell.edu ulowell!page Have five nice days.