hrlaser@pnet02.cts.com (Harv Laser) (10/24/88)
What have been the general experiences of you good people who have
purchased CBM 1084S monitors?
For the first 6 months of its life (starting Oct. '85) my A1000 was hooked
to a CBM 1701 color composite tube until I could save enough money to
buy a 1080.
The 1080 lasted for 2.5 years, snapping and arcing, and occasionally going
so far as to shut itself off (requiring a cycling of the power switch
after a couple minutes' wait to get a picture back). The hotter and
more humid the weather, the worse the 1080 got.
Finally two weeks ago the 1080 arc'd and snapped for the last time, the
screen went black and that was all she wrote. I left it off half a day
and upon applying power again, still black.
Sooooo... doing a deal with my nearby friendly dealer, I traded my dead
1080 (which his tech intended to fix and use on his bench in the back) for
a pristine sealed new 1084S and some cash.
The 1084S was installed on my A1000 using the supplied cable and following
all instructions and within 10 minutes of powering up it started mildly
snapping too. Not as violently as the 1080 had but still there.
(At this point I should parenthetically mention that my dealer is a huge
shop, he has TWELVE Amigas - all models - set up for demos, and at least
8 of them have 1084 or 1084S monitors on them, and ALL of them *snap* to
some degree or another, so I don't believe it's my computer, the cable,
my electricity, the tap bar all my stuff is plugged into, nor anything
else I'm doing. I get my juice from So. California Edison).
So merrily I use the 1084S for two weeks when tonite, with TWO witnesses,
I load up a demo animation I had run many times before and the 1084S
gives a loud "fritzzzzz" sound, a flash of white on the screen, dissolve
to black, and this was accompanied by the distinct smell of something
electrical burning coming out the top vents. (Didn't see any smoke
though).
Cycling power to the monitor proved fruitless. The screen remained black.
So.. back it goes tomorrow to the dealer for a replacement, most likely
another of the same breed unless he has by now fixed my original 1080
in which case I'll beg for it back.
I was told by the dealer's tech words to the effect that "CBM has made
a lot of improvements in the 1084s... they don't arc and snap anymore"
but I found this to be completely untrue.
It's easy to say "geesh, Harv, buy a Sony Multiscan" or words to that
effect. It's not easy to tell Harv's checkbook to fasten its seatbelt
to accomodate the sudden jolt such a purchase would cause.
So to those of you with 1084S monitors... how are you making out with them?
Do they snap and arc and fritz? Any been purchased DOA or croaked
soon thereafter?
What I'd REALLY like to get my mits on would be one of the original
1070 Developer's monitors. They had the best color saturation and
tightest dot pitch of any CBM-Amiga tube I've ever seen... but the
people who have them just don't want to part with them, for obvious
reasons :-)
Harv Laser, Sysop, The People/Link AmigaZone. Plink: CBM*HARV
UUCP: {ames!elroy, <backbone>}!gryphon!pnet02!hrlaser
INET: hrlaser@pnet02.cts.com
<---open Push down while turning close tightly--->papa@pollux.usc.edu (Marco Papa) (10/25/88)
In article <8097@gryphon.CTS.COM> hrlaser@pnet02.cts.com (Harv Laser) writes: >What I'd REALLY like to get my mits on would be one of the original >1070 Developer's monitors. They had the best color saturation and >tightest dot pitch of any CBM-Amiga tube I've ever seen... but the >people who have them just don't want to part with them, for obvious >reasons :-) All very true. I have 2 1070s. One of them broke as a result of the October 1987 LA earthquake. I am keeping it until I can find somebody that can fix it. -- Marco Papa 'Doc' -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= uucp:...!pollux!papa BIX:papa ARPAnet:pollux!papa@oberon.usc.edu "There's Alpha, Beta, Gamma and Diga!" -- Leo Schwab [quoting Rick Unland] -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
York@cup.portal.com (Lawrence B York) (10/25/88)
Harv,
I have had my Amiga from Oct. 85 as well with one slight
difference. I have had my 1080 from day one! I've been inside it
(modified maximum resolution "7" times - would normally indicate a
person who can't make up his mind - might be right!) over and over
again, but never for maintenance! No snapping, cracking, hissing,
pinging, ringing, or singing! If your original 1080 exhibited the
same problems that you are having with the 1084s, being a technician
for several years I would have to say that the odds are there is
either something very wrong with your power (possibly an abnormal
cycle shift like 45-70hz on the ac line) or your Amiga analog
connection! I would need more information to pin it down exactly,
but I have never had a problem with my monitor (1080) and have
several friends with Amiga's who have never had problems with their
monitors (all 1080's). I don't know - is this problem as widespread
as you say? Does anybody else out there have similar stories?
Larry York "Engineer's dream, Technician's create!"
Usenet: york@cup.portal.com
Plink: Stingray
Genie: Cobrawtm@neoucom.UUCP (Bill Mayhew) (10/26/88)
Although our two model 1080 monitors do not crackle, the problem seems to be endemic for other owners. Most of the failed monitors that I've run across have gone south to to a nonpolar electrolyic capacitor drying out and shorting in the horizontal output transistor's collector coupling to the horizontal output transformer. It seems that certain far eastern manufactuers scrimp on the quality of said capacitors. The capacitors' dielectric paste seems to dry out (I'll bet its warmer inside the monitors than the parts are spec'ed for). When the past dries out, the capacitors short. The shorted caps sometimes go fizzz-pow!; other times, they quietly blow a fuse inside the monitor. It comes to mind that the voltage being supplied to the monitor might be too high. Only experienced people should do go sticking wires into wall sockets. It might not be a bad idea to have the voltage measured. At one time my office was located near a large air handler. The air handler caused the voltage to sag on its feed, while the voltage in my office being on the other phase rose. I was getting 140 volts. Light bulbs didn't last very long, but everything else seemed to tolerate it. A different office I was in was aslo beset with poor power, and the ground lead was about 25 volts with respect to the frame of the building. We found out when a maintenance guy went to drill a hole and got a BIG spark when the bit touched a metal beam in the wall. At yet another place I worked, there was an ethernet cable that went between buildings, that was bonded to the frame of one building, but had about 40 volts AC on it with respect to the case of the server in the other building. Fortunately, the cable taps have ground isiolation. Ground wires with voltages on them can be caused by a variety of faults. Sometimes some equipment will loose its neutral lead, dumping current into the ground, this may cause a voltage drop through the ground lead. Also a delta-wye transformer without the Y side bonded can let the ground float. The point I was trying to get at is that just because power comes from edison, it is not necessarily good power. If your neighbor is an energy pig, and you are supplied from the same distribution transformer, it can mess up your voltage. There are some spark-gap capacitors in most monitors that are supposed to discharge to ground when conditions are out of bounds. It seems plausible that if one's ground wire was not zero volts, the spark gap capacitors might discharge more than they should. I'd be tempted to test or have someone else test that the neutral (white) wire to ground is approximately zero volts, while the hot (black) wire to ground is not more than 120 volts. If the voltage is OK, than it might just be a case of bad luck. --Bill
hrlaser@pnet02.cts.com (Harv Laser) (10/26/88)
York@cup.portal.com (Lawrence B York) writes: >Harv, > >for several years I would have to say that the odds are there is >either something very wrong with your power (possibly an abnormal >cycle shift like 45-70hz on the ac line) or your Amiga analog >connection! I would need more information to pin it down exactly, > >Larry York "Engineer's dream, Technician's create!" > Well, yeah, I could buy that conclusion except, as I said in my original posting, my local dealer, Creative Computers in Lawndale, has a plethora of Amiga demo machines - A1000s, 500s, and 2000s, most of which are topped with 1084 or 1084S tubes and ALL of them *snap* and *fritz* to some extent.... this leads me to believe, as I also said, that it is NOT my Amiga, my AC power, the tap bar I have my hardware plugged into, or anything else that *I* am doing/using. At any rate, I'm now on my second brand new 1084S (Creative swapped it out for the fried one, no questions asked), and we'll see how it goes. Harv Laser, Sysop, The People/Link AmigaZone. Plink: CBM*HARV UUCP: {ames!elroy, <backbone>}!gryphon!pnet02!hrlaser INET: hrlaser@pnet02.cts.com <---open Push down while turning close tightly--->
cjp@antique.UUCP (Charles Poirier) (10/27/88)
My 1080 monitor (from Feb 86) "snapped" 5 or 6 times when it was about a year old. But it stopped all by itself. Kind of strange. -- Charles Poirier (decvax,ucbvax,mcnc,attmail)!vax135!cjp "Docking complete... Docking complete... Docking complete..."
kjohn@richsun.UUCP (John Kjellman) (10/27/88)
In article <10450@cup.portal.com> York@cup.portal.com (Lawrence B York) writes: >Harv, > > I have had my Amiga from Oct. 85 as well with one slight >difference. I have had my 1080 from day one! I've been inside it >[eat me I'm a danish ;-)] I am just like Larry, I've had my A1000/A1080 for almost 3 yrs. I have yet to have any serious problems. If I move up to an A2500UX (big :-), I just think I'll keep my A1080. I have heard SOOOOOO MANY horror stories relating to the A1084 that I wouldn't touch one with an IBM PEE CEE (well, maybe just once :-). KJohn screen a little after longer periods of use, -- | Amiga /// | Disclaimer: This is only a dream, it's only a dream ......... | | Manic///.5K | One liners: I'm from the government, I'm here to help........ | | \\\/// 1K | MS/D*S is the best damn OS I have ever used...... | | \XX/ 2K | kjohn@richp1 or [ purdue | cs.ubc | mcdchg ] ! richp1 ! kjohn |
paquette@cpsc.ucalgary.ca (Trevor Paquette) (10/29/88)
In article <8097@gryphon.CTS.COM>, hrlaser@pnet02.cts.com (Harv Laser) writes: > > > The 1080 lasted for 2.5 years, snapping and arcing, and occasionally going > so far as to shut itself off (requiring a cycling of the power switch > after a couple minutes' wait to get a picture back). The hotter and > more humid the weather, the worse the 1080 got. > > Finally two weeks ago the 1080 arc'd and snapped for the last time, the > screen went black and that was all she wrote. I left it off half a day > and upon applying power again, still black. > ..... > Harv Laser, Sysop, The People/Link AmigaZone. Plink: CBM*HARV > UUCP: {ames!elroy, <backbone>}!gryphon!pnet02!hrlaser > INET: hrlaser@pnet02.cts.com > <---open Push down while turning close tightly---> I had the same problem with my 1080, though not a severe as yours. It would pop about every 2 hours or so. What is did was this: 1) Open it up. 2) Get your handy dandy low power dirt sucker and try to get all the loose dust 3) With a damp cloth start getting rid of as much dust and dirt as you can. 4) close it. I did this and it has not popped since. This was about 5 months ago. ============================================================================= Trevor Paquette - GraphicsLand, U of Calgary[Home of The Great Train Rubbery] UUCP: ...!{ubc-cs,utai,alberta}!calgary!paquette ICBM:51 03 N/114 05 W Luminous beings we are, not this crude matter. *** Don't worry, be happy
akg@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Mike Hughey) (10/29/88)
In article <10450@cup.portal.com> York@cup.portal.com (Lawrence B York) writes: >I don't know - is this problem as widespread >as you say? Does anybody else out there have similar stories? > >Larry York "Engineer's dream, Technician's create!" I don't know, but I've had this problem since I got my 1080 monitor. My roommate also has a 1080 monitor, and his NEVER pops! I have heard of a number of others that do the same thing, so it must be common. Mike Hughey
timg@ziebmef.uucp (Tim Grantham) (11/01/88)
Harv, you *and* the computer store may have flaky power supplied to your respective domains. The only other person I know who has the arcing monitor lives in an area of Toronto notorious for power outages and fluctuations. My neighbourhood has rock-solid power and I have never had this problem. Tim.
dleigh@hplabsz.HPL.HP.COM (Darren Leigh) (11/01/88)
In article <2429@antique.UUCP> vax135!cjp (Charles Poirier) writes: >My 1080 monitor (from Feb 86) "snapped" 5 or 6 times when it was about a >year old. But it stopped all by itself. Kind of strange. My 2002 used to snap all the time when it was in an improperly grounded receptacle (two prongs instead of three). Since it's been grounded, I have had no problems at all. I'm using it as a TV right now, in conjunction with a VCR and stereo. Great picture and sound! ======== Darren Leigh Internet: dleigh@hplabs.hp.com UUCP: hplabs!dleigh
gmg@hcx.uucp (Greg M. Garner) (11/02/88)
In article <106@cs-spool.calgary.UUCP>, paquette@cpsc.ucalgary.ca (Trevor Paquette) writes: > I had the same problem with my 1080, though not a severe as yours. It > would pop about every 2 hours or so. What is did was this: > 1) Open it up. > 2) Get your handy dandy low power dirt sucker and try to get all the loose > dust > 3) With a damp cloth start getting rid of as much dust and dirt as you can. > 4) close it. > > I did this and it has not popped since. This was about 5 months ago. > ============================================================================= > Trevor Paquette - GraphicsLand, U of Calgary[Home of The Great Train Rubbery] > UUCP: ...!{ubc-cs,utai,alberta}!calgary!paquette ICBM:51 03 N/114 05 W > Luminous beings we are, not this crude matter. *** Don't worry, be happy I hope thousands don't reply to this message, but it is very dangerous to take a damp cloth and put it anywhere near the open back of a crt. The crt tube is a _VERY_ _LARGE_ capacitor, and it stores around 20,000 volts on it ****EVEN WHEN THE TV OR MONITOR IS OFF*****. You can be killed if you poke around in the back of a crt without first discharging the tube! The best procedure to follow when planning to open up a crt cabinet and poke around is as follows: 1) Take your left hand and put it in your back pocket. This is not a joke, I am very serious. Do not remove your hand from your pocket until you KNOW beyond a shadow of a doubt that the CRT tube has been discharged. The reason behind this is so you cannot have a current travel from your right arm, through your heart, and out your left arm to a ground. This type of current is quite capable of stopping your heart. 2) Take a long bladed, plastic handled screwdriver, and short the CRT tube to the TV or monitor frame ground. The ground is usually a wire that is wrapped around the edge of the crt, holding it in place. The screwdriver must be inserted under the dust cover of the high voltage wire going into the tube, and then shorted to frame ground at the same time. Note that you should hear a spark when the thing actually shorts. 3) Repeat the shorting action 3 or 4 times, as the tube will build back up (voltage). After the tube has been shorted 4 times, it should be much safer to poke around in the CRT. 4) Now you can clean the crt if you like! /* I accept no resposibility for the above procedure, but I am trying to make sure that anyone performing this minimizes his/her chance of getting hurt. I have been shocked by a crt tube, and it does not feel good. Be careful! */ Greg Garner gmg@hcx or gmg@192.31.86.209 501-442-4847
wagner@gpu.utcs.toronto.edu (Michael Wagner) (11/04/88)
Mine pops too, but it hasn't died yet (since Dec 85). It even survived 1.5 years in Germany running at 50Hz with a step down transformer. Michael
akg@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Mike Hughey) (11/05/88)
In article <1988Oct31.132149.4490@ziebmef.uucp> timg@ziebmef.UUCP (Tim Grantham) writes: >Harv, you *and* the computer store may have flaky power supplied to your >respective domains. The only other person I know who has the arcing monitor >lives in an area of Toronto notorious for power outages and fluctuations. >My neighbourhood has rock-solid power and I have never had this problem. This problem DOES NOT - repeat - DOES NOT - have anything to do with the supplied power. We have two Amigas with 2 1080s hooked up to the same outlet. Mine pops; my roommate's doesn't. It doesn't matter if we switch sockets, cords, etc. Mine pops; my roommate's doesn't. Some of the 1080's are flaky, some aren't. It definitely DOESN'T have anything to do with the supplied power. Mike Hughey
wtm@neoucom.UUCP (Bill Mayhew) (11/06/88)
The CRT anode voltage is dangerous. What is even more dangerous about the high voltage than the shock hazard is that it can induce involuntary muscle contraction. That is to say that your arm (or whatever) could flinch violently causing a rupture of the the CRT neck. The resultant flying glass shards are what might do you in. What poses the greatest risk of electrocution are the intermediate voltages in the display unit. It is quite likely that voltages of approximately 100 - 200 volts are present. These supplys are capable of delivering substantial current for prolonged periods. As you can see, there are several hazards within a video display unit. If you don't know EXACTLY what you are doing, any tinkering should definitely be left to a trained technician. Note that special non-conductive sprays are used to seal where the anode lead cup attaches to the CRT neck. Disturbing the seal to discharge the anode lead for servicing requires that a fresh coat of sealant be applied when you are done. The sealant is available as spray or paint called corona dope. It is available at TV service supply stores. Discharging the anode lead to the wrong place on the display unit's chassis can dmamge circuitry. I strongly recommend following the advice on any labels inside the case or the manufacturer's service book. --Bill
gsarff@meph.UUCP (Gary Sarff) (11/08/88)
In <1988Oct31.132149.4490@ziebmef.uucp>, timg@ziebmef.uucp (Tim Grantham) writes: > >Harv, you *and* the computer store may have flaky power supplied to your >respective domains. The only other person I know who has the arcing monitor >lives in an area of Toronto notorious for power outages and fluctuations. >My neighbourhood has rock-solid power and I have never had this problem. > We have several 2000's and 500's here for development work with 1084s and ALL of them will arc at one time or another, some very frequently (on the order of at least once every 2-5 minutes.) We have very stable power here for our other large computers. The number of other's on the net and the pay networks like plink and compuserve who have jumpy 1084's seems to suggest a significant statistical probability that it is not all in our minds, (or power company as the case may be.) Wish I still had my old 1080 that came with my old 1000, it never did this. Makes the 2000's look tacky when the screen jumps like that when you are showing it to someone. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "Those whom the gods would destroy, they first make mad" He who steals my core-dump, steals trash