mjw@f.gp.cs.cmu.edu (Michael Witbrock) (11/19/88)
I hate to say this, but I saw the ads on MTV, and they looked pretty cheesy.
In particular, the lettering should have been antialiased, and someone
should have resisted the temptation to use SO many colours on the
'flying saucer'.
Too many images from games etc were shown; some graphic designer should
have been told to do some cool geometric animations. Remember, these
things are
being shown up next to MTV's cray (or whatever) generated station ids.
The only really neat thing about the commercials was ' ... and it wouldn't
be caught dead in polyester '. Whoever came up with that line should be
put in charge of the whole campaign.
Michael
--
Michael.Witbrock@cs.cmu.edu mjw@cs.cmu.edu \
US Mail: Michael Witbrock/ Dept of Computer Science \
Carnegie Mellon University/ Pittsburgh PA 15213/ USA /\
Telephone : (412) 268 3621 [Office] (412) 441 1724 [Home] / \
-- ErikG@cup.portal.com (Erik Alexander Gavriluk) (11/20/88)
Michael Witbrock writes: >I hate to say this, but I saw the ads on MTV, and they looked pretty cheesy. You hate what? To admit that you watch MTV, and saw the ads? Or to say that they look cheesy? :) >In particular, the lettering should have been antialiased, and someone >should have resisted the temptation to use SO many colours on the >'flying saucer'. Oh, that's what that thing was? >Too many images from games etc were shown; some graphic designer should >have been told to do some cool geometric animations. Remember, these >things are being shown up next to MTV's cray (or whatever) generated station >ids. I only saw one of them, which started with a "THIS COMMERCIAL WAS CREATED ON A COMMODORE AMIGA" or whatever. The lettering was not beautiful. It wasn't shadowed or anything. Your point about MTV is very valid. If it's gonna be on MTV, it's gotta be slick. Look, Commodore--if you're gonna advertise on MTV, do something hot and rocking, with hot music and lots of fast cutaways. What I saw was a crappy looking flying saucer genlocked over a cheesy hillside that looked as if it were shot with a home video camera. The center of attention, incidentally, falls on the man, and not on the computer generated saucer. The average MTV viewer will say "hey, that's not made on a computer!" and ignore the entire ad. He's waiting for the deliciously-shaped blonde who does the remake of "The Loco-Motion" to come on. He's not amused by this very poor commercial. And neither was I. (I was waiting to see the new Talking Heads video...) As usual, Commodore will rely on its users to spread the word about this magnificent computer. Erik Gavriluk (and, yes, the portal.weenie!) | mail: ErikG@cup.portal.com I'm mildly blatant; that's why she loves me. | flames: portal!weenie!ErikG
scott@applix.UUCP (Scott Evernden) (11/22/88)
In article <11545@cup.portal.com> ErikG@cup.portal.com (Erik Alexander Gavriluk) writes: >Look, Commodore--if you're gonna advertise on MTV, do something hot and >rocking, with hot music and lots of fast cutaways. What I saw was a crappy >looking flying saucer genlocked over a cheesy hillside that looked as if it >were shot with a home video camera. > < and more stuff about how bad he thought the ads were > Hey, Commodore. No matter what you do, someone will tell you it sucks. I, for one, thought the ads I saw were darn neat. Commodore has done _exactly_ what everyone has been suggesting they do for years. And people still complain. These ads play against Nintendo and Sega commercials. MTV's own graphics do _not_ overshadow these ads. These are short, dynamic, and flashy peeks at the Amiga that make you want to see more. I think they'll help in reaching that 1,000,000 figure by xmas... -scott
mjw@f.gp.cs.cmu.edu (Michael Witbrock) (11/23/88)
My point was supposed to be less that the ads looked a bit tacky (which
they did) and more that thy didn't have to.
The amiga is perfectly capable of playing next to MTV graphics and looking
'professional'. It is capable of doing antialiasing. It is capable of doing
real time anamation of lifelike images (see the newtek demo - 'maxine' headroom
and the swimmer/betty boop stuff in particular) - see the (hmm - what was that
videodisk game with the guy in armour with the sword etc) demo, which looks damn near as good as a sat morning cartoon. See the output from the TeX previewer.
I think that advertising on MTV is a neat idea; I like the concept. All I think
is that commodore could push their ad agency into fully using the computer.
michael
--
Michael.Witbrock@cs.cmu.edu mjw@cs.cmu.edu \
US Mail: Michael Witbrock/ Dept of Computer Science \
Carnegie Mellon University/ Pittsburgh PA 15213/ USA /\
Telephone : (412) 268 3621 [Office] (412) 441 1724 [Home] / \
-- ErikG@cup.portal.com (Erik Alexander Gavriluk) (11/24/88)
Scott Evernden writes (quoting me first): >>Look, Commodore--if you're gonna advertise on MTV, do something hot and >>rocking, with hot music and lots of fast cutaways. What I saw was a crappy >>looking flying saucer genlocked over a cheesy hillside that looked as if it >>were shot with a home video camera. >Hey, Commodore. No matter what you do, someone will tell you it sucks. >I, for one, thought the ads I saw were darn neat. Commodore has done >_exactly_ what everyone has been suggesting they do for years. And >people still complain. People suggested that Commodore advertise. We assumed that if they did advertise, they would do it right. They didn't. >These ads play against Nintendo and Sega commercials. MTV's own graphics >do _not_ overshadow these ads. These are short, dynamic, and flashy peeks >at the Amiga that make you want to see more. Yes, the ads do "play" against them, but the products are not in competition with one another. Perhaps if I'm more explicit people will see why the ad strategy is so poor. - They're 15 second spots. Ad agencies are not entirely sure if 15 second spots are at all effective. They're normally used to refresh the memory of a previously effective ad campaign that used 30 or 60 second spots. They should NEVER be used to introduce a new product! (15 second spots have to be purchased in groups of two, by the way. Sometimes they will run back to back, other times you'll see a 15 second spot, another products' 30 second spot, and then the second 15 second spot.) - They're on MTV. Who watches MTV? The people who buy records. MTV is basically an advertising medium to sell records--that's why people make videos. Thus, MTV is geared to attract people who buy records. These people are aged 12-21. Now, the people 18-21 are in college, and they're broke. If they're buying any computer, it certainly isn't going to be an Amiga. People 12-17 are VERY hard to sell things to. Thus, the ads must be effective. They aren't. - These ads are geared for Xmas, of course. Kiddies can buy a machine that lets you put a flying saucer over a hillside for $800, or they can buy a Nintendo game system for $100. Guess what they're gonna find under the tree? - "Free VCR". This one takes the cake. Ok, this is supposed to be some major enticement to buy the computer. FIRST- Commodore doesn't even bother to mention what you could do with a VCR and an Amiga. (They couldn't say it in 15 seconds anyway...) So people don't understand the relationship between the two, and are not likely to remember the deal. SECOND- Most people already have a VCR! Since Commodore doesn't bother to inform them why a second one would be nice, people are even more likely to ignore this. It's like 70% of the households in America have a VCR. Now, how many homes with cable TV have a VCR? Gotta be like 90%. So, 90% of the people who see the "Free VCR" thing already have one. And 0% understand what you could do with it anyway. - Don't say, SHOW! Geeze. This is the major rule of thumb of advertising. "..and stereo sound to tickle your ears." A cartoon character's ears get big. That's dumb. Some really hot music in the background would probably be more indicative of sound capabilities, wouldn't it? - These ads don't even bother to show the computer. Why? ==== Ok, since I've already created enough controversy, I'll give you the ErikG advert that would solve many of these problems. I like the "THIS COMMERCIAL WAS MADE..." and "ONLY AMIGA MAKES IT POSSIBLE" stuff. That's very effective for the name recognition. I'll keep that. 30 sec spot. 2 secs "This commercial was made on a Commodore Amiga." Amiga, monitor and mouse are neatly arranged on a desk. A music score is on the monitor. A female hand taps the left mouse button. A really hot rock score commences. Drums, guitar and synth. Camera zooms in on the screen. Every two beats you see something new. Fast, flashy, gorgeous. The kahnakas demo. HAM pic of a beautiful woman. Dragon's Lair. Man zooming in onto the eye of the woman. Music softens. 5 seconds of the birds (with sound) flying around the AMIGA logo. Music gets louder, intensifies. The pictures start coming more quickly. So fast that the viewer can't quite see them all. A final hard drum beat sounds. Sexy female voice: "ONLY AMIGA MAKES IT POSSIBLE." >I think they'll help in reaching that 1,000,000 figure by xmas... Well, they certainly won't hurt. But a more effective ad could result in a 2,000,000 figure for next xmas. How's that sound? Erik Gavriluk (and, yes, the portal.weenie!) | mail: ErikG@cup.portal.com I'm mildly blatant; that's why she loves me. | flames: portal!weenie!ErikG
keithd@gryphon.COM (Keith Doyle) (11/28/88)
In article <11718@cup.portal.com> ErikG@cup.portal.com (Erik Alexander Gavriluk) writes: >- They're on MTV. Who watches MTV? The people who buy records. MTV is >basically an advertising medium to sell records--that's why people make >videos. Thus, MTV is geared to attract people who buy records. These >people are aged 12-21. WRONG! Who watches MTV? People who tend to spend money on cable TV, *watch* a lot of TV, and spend a lot of money on a CD stereo and VCR rack. Including technophile Dad's with VCR's and very often cameras. These people are in the 21-50 age range and generally have a reasonable amount of money, appreciate good sound and visuals (though why they're watching MTV for that I don't know, but then again, I'm used to watching the Amiga :-). In other words, a pretty good match for the Amiga (though I would assume not the only one). >- These ads are geared for Xmas, of course. Kiddies can buy a machine that >lets you put a flying saucer over a hillside for $800, or they can buy a >Nintendo game system for $100. Guess what they're gonna find under the tree? But Dad's are the ones that are going to want and buy Amiga's. The same technophiles that bought the CD 6-stack player with super programability and had as much fun programming that as they do playing the absolute latest highest tech video games out there. In other words, boomers. >- "Free VCR". This one takes the cake. Ok, this is supposed to be some >major enticement to buy the computer. FIRST- Commodore doesn't even bother >to mention what you could do with a VCR and an Amiga. (They couldn't say it >in 15 seconds anyway...) So people don't understand the relationship >between the two, and are not likely to remember the deal. SECOND- Most people >already have a VCR! Since Commodore doesn't bother to inform them why a >second one would be nice, people are even more likely to ignore this. It's >like 70% of the households in America have a VCR. Now, how many homes with >cable TV have a VCR? Gotta be like 90%. So, 90% of the people who see the >"Free VCR" thing already have one. And 0% understand what you could do with >it anyway. I'd agree with this group of statements. Not only that, you'd only need a black and white VCR, as that's all you are going to get when you hook up the basic package anyway. BTW, the local computer store here (one of the largest Amiga dealers) claims that of the two $1199 package deals he's been offering (the 500/Monitor/VCR/software deal and the 500/Monitor/2nddrive/expRAM deal, he's had only 1 person go for the VCR deal so far). He moves 20-50 500 systems on an average saturday I'd guess, several walked out while I was there for about an hour. >- These ads don't even bother to show the computer. Why? So what's to see? It looks like a computer. Better to show what it can do that is different than to waste time showing that it looks just about like any other computer looks. Keith Doyle gryphon!keithd
ngorelic@uokmax.UUCP (Bamf) (11/29/88)
In article <9020@gryphon.COM> keithd@gryphon.COM (Keith Doyle) writes: >In article <11718@cup.portal.com> ErikG@cup.portal.com (Erik Alexander Gavriluk) writes: >>- They're on MTV. Who watches MTV? The people who buy records. MTV is >>basically an advertising medium to sell records--that's why people make >>videos. Thus, MTV is geared to attract people who buy records. These >>people are aged 12-21. > >WRONG! Who watches MTV? People who tend to spend money on cable TV, *watch* >a lot of TV, and spend a lot of money on a CD stereo and VCR rack. >Including technophile Dad's with VCR's and very often cameras. These people >are in the 21-50 age range and generally have a reasonable amount of money, >appreciate good sound and visuals (though why they're watching MTV for that >I don't know, but then again, I'm used to watching the Amiga :-). In other >words, a pretty good match for the Amiga (though I would assume not the only >one). > Just to take up bandwidth here: My dad is a major technophile. Yep, he's got the VCR, portable phones, Cable TV, the works. He would rather die than be caught watching MTV. However, my friends just entering college, and those that I am about to graduate from college with, watch MTV. In fact, when there's nothing else on to watch, that's what they land on. (believe me, at 4 am., it's the best thing on.) I think that I'd have to agree on the 12-21 age group. (or maybe upto 24 or so...) Regardless, the ad's sucked. It wouldn't entice a 12 year old, or a 50 year old (especially a 50 year old, and those are usually the ones that are going to spend the money for the 12 year old) >>- These ads are geared for Xmas, of course. Kiddies can buy a machine that >>lets you put a flying saucer over a hillside for $800, or they can buy a >>Nintendo game system for $100. Guess what they're gonna find under the tree? > >But Dad's are the ones that are going to want and buy Amiga's. The same >technophiles that bought the CD 6-stack player with super programability >and had as much fun programming that as they do playing the absolute latest >highest tech video games out there. In other words, boomers. Survey Says: BEEP! Granted, any dad that ends up buying an Amiga is going to end up playing games on it, but you will not find one willing to shell out $1000.00 so that he can play games on it. <Stuff about the stupidity of offering a free VCR with the 500 deleted..> Ditto. > >>- These ads don't even bother to show the computer. Why? > >So what's to see? It looks like a computer. Better to show what it can >do that is different than to waste time showing that it looks just about >like any other computer looks. > Yes, it looks like a computer. Not like a nintendo. Show us that! Show us that it's not just another place to plug in a joystick. Dad's not even going to listen to the kid when he explains that it's a choice between the $100 nintendo, and the $1200 Amiga, when they are put into the same list. Explain that it's one of the most powerful personal computers available! And do it without the guy's ears expanding. >Keith Doyle >gryphon!keithd Bamf "Just another Larry..." ngorelic@uokmax Ya want it should sing too? ...!texsun!uokmax!ngorelic -- "Just another Larry..." ngorelic@uokmax Ya want it should sing too? ...!texsun!uokmax!ngorelic
jesup@cbmvax.UUCP (Randell Jesup) (11/30/88)
In article <9020@gryphon.COM> keithd@gryphon.COM (Keith Doyle) writes: >In article <11718@cup.portal.com> ErikG@cup.portal.com (Erik Alexander Gavriluk) writes: >>- They're on MTV. Who watches MTV? The people who buy records. MTV is >>basically an advertising medium to sell records--that's why people make >>videos. Thus, MTV is geared to attract people who buy records. These >>people are aged 12-21. > >WRONG! Who watches MTV? People who tend to spend money on cable TV, *watch* >a lot of TV, and spend a lot of money on a CD stereo and VCR rack. >Including technophile Dad's with VCR's and very often cameras. These people >are in the 21-50 age range and generally have a reasonable amount of money, >appreciate good sound and visuals (though why they're watching MTV for that >I don't know, but then again, I'm used to watching the Amiga :-). In other >words, a pretty good match for the Amiga (though I would assume not the only >one). Except those people don't watch MTV, their children do. MTV's target age group has declined by at least 5 years in the last two or three. The "boomers" you mention (and DINKs/SINKs in their twenties with lots of cash floating around) do NOT in general watch MTV, if anything they watch VH-1 (owned by MTV, but VERY different audience). I (personally) agree that the commercials could use some improvements, and that a mixture of 30-sec and 15-sec spots would probably work better. Also better placement and targeting of audience could be done (VH-1, if they aren't putting it there (my local cable company is run by dweebs), maybe CNN during certain times with some of the commercials (probably not the ones run on MTV), maybe the discovery channel.) -- You've heard of CATS? Well, I'm a member of DOGS: Developers Of Great Software. Randell Jesup, Commodore Engineering {uunet|rutgers|allegra}!cbmvax!jesup
cg@myrias.UUCP (Chris Gray) (12/02/88)
There have been some complaints about the Amiga ad on MTV. Well, I'd like to
report a more positive reaction to another time slot: right in the middle of
the nightly CTV National News (one of Canada's largest two networks). The
ad starts with some simple graphics that other computers can do and moves up
to Kahnankas, Juggler, (I name these because I recognized them) some shots of
other graphics, and a final mention of multitasking, showing some tool's
screen being dragged down to reveal the Workbench. I thought it was quite
effective.
--
Chris Gray Myrias Research, Edmonton +1 403 428 1616
{uunet!mnetor,ubc-vision,watmath,vax135}!alberta!myrias!cgecphssrw@solaria.csun.edu (Stephen Walton) (12/02/88)
Speaking as a baby-boomer parent, I'd rather watch Square One TV with my son than eMpTyV any day. And I'd rather hack on the Amiga than watch MTV at 3 AM. So, CBM, why not get your name as a corporate sponsor on some of the science/math oriented PBS programs? -- Stephen Walton, Dept. of Physics & Astronomy, Cal State Univ. Northridge RCKG01M@CALSTATE.BITNET ecphssrw@afws.csun.edu swalton@solar.stanford.edu ...!csun!afws.csun.edu!bcphssrw
iphwk%MTSUNIX1.BITNET@cunyvm.cuny.edu (Bill Kinnersley) (12/06/88)
[In "Re: Ads on MTV", Stephen Walton said:] : : Speaking as a baby-boomer parent, I'd rather watch Square One TV with : my son than eMpTyV any day. And I'd rather hack on the Amiga than : watch MTV at 3 AM. So, CBM, why not get your name as a corporate : sponsor on some of the science/math oriented PBS programs? : A better idea would be to get some Amigas used on the program. If George Frankly can use an Amiga, anyone can! --Bill Kinnersley IPHWK@MTSUNIX1.BITNET iphwk@terra.oscs.montana.edu "Local presentation of this cantaloupe has been made possible by a grant from the Andrew W. Melon Foundation."