eric@pyrps5 (Eric Bergan) (11/30/88)
As some of you may recall, at various times I have posted about having occasional problems with my Seagate ST-251 locking up with the access light on. Well, I finally broke down and took my Amiga 2000 into a shop to have someone look into the problem. Their verdict is that the drive itself is failing. The drive is no longer in warranty, and I have no idea whether I could find someone to try and service it. (Note, I'm not having any problems with read/write errors, so it is probably not a media problem, just a component problem.) Anyone know if the drive itself can be repaired, and where I would go to have that done? If the drive is a write-off, I'm hesitant to replace it with another Seagate. Eight months is not a very long life time. Have others had problems with Seagates? What are other reasonable choices for a ~40Mbyte drive, reasonable access time, and reasonable price?
papa@pollux.usc.edu (Marco Papa) (12/01/88)
In article <49120@pyramid.pyramid.com> eric@pyrps5 (Eric Bergan) writes: | As some of you may recall, at various times I have posted about |having occasional problems with my Seagate ST-251 locking up with |the access light on. Well, I finally broke down and took my Amiga 2000 |into a shop to have someone look into the problem. Their verdict is | | The drive is no longer in warranty, and I have no idea whether |I could find someone to try and service it. (Note, I'm not having |any problems with read/write errors, so it is probably not a media |problem, just a component problem.) Anyone know if the drive itself |can be repaired, and where I would go to have that done? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Pick up any issue of Computer Shopper. There are always ads of comnpanies specialized in fixing drives like your for a fee. The fee is usually proportional to the amount of memory on the dive (who knows why?). -- Marco Papa 'Doc' -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= uucp:...!pollux!papa BIX:papa ARPAnet:pollux!papa@oberon.usc.edu "There's Alpha, Beta, Gamma and Diga!" -- Leo Schwab [quoting Rick Unland] -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
perley@trub.steinmetz (Donald P Perley) (12/02/88)
In article <49120@pyramid.pyramid.com> eric@pyrps5 (Eric Bergan) writes: > > As some of you may recall, at various times I have posted about >having occasional problems with my Seagate ST-251 locking up with >the access light on. >Anyone know if the drive itself >can be repaired, and where I would go to have that done? I have seen ads in Computer Shopper for places that fix hard drives for a fixed price (depending on the size of the drive). I seem to recall that 40 meg drives were somewhere between $100 and $200. I don't recall the companies names (some help, eh?). At least you know where to look. -don perley
thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) (12/02/88)
Eric Bergan comments about problems with his ST-251 hard drive ... There are inherent flaws in the design of the ST251 such that the drive motor will NOT spin due to the arms not coming out of park position (which they enter upon power-down of the drive). I have 10 drives (ST251) exhibiting this problem (on several different types of computers), and hundreds of others are now noticing similar problems with their ST251 drives. Following is a compendium of solutions and explanations; the problem is SO common with Seagate drives (even their new 3.5" puppies) that I keep a file with stuff like the following to simplify answering your (and others') questions. In *MY* opinion, the ONLY good Seagate drive is a dea... oops, sorry!, re-starting, the only good Seagate drive is the ST-4096 with the linear arm actuator. Thad Floryan [ thad@cup.portal.com (OR) ..!sun!portal!cup.portal.com!thad ] ========================== begin included messages ========================== From: thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) Newsgroups: comp.sys.att Subject: Re: HELP with 7300 hard disk PLEASE Date: 1 Nov 88 09:43:22 GMT Walt Novinger is having problems with his Seagate ST251 ... Welcome to the club. But, one question: does the drive SPIN? Don't laugh. I have a bunch of ST251 drives that do NOT spin up consistently and the first time that happened I started sweating icicles. My first thought was a "bad" controller card (the one that is bolted to the back of the drives), and I called Seagate Customer Support (in Florida; figure that one out) and discovered that all Seagate does is exchange drives. Not very useful if you want to retrieve data that hasn't been backed up (let THAT be a lesson!). Finally, persevered and managed to reach the Manager of QA at Seagate in Scotts Valley, CA, and was told essentially the same story: they don't repair drives, wouldn't send me a PC card, and they don't have spare parts. By this time, I had already discovered the drive wasn't spinning up. Being the curious sort, I started examining all aspects of the drive. Poked here, prodded there, uttered a few choice epithets, and was seriously considering the sure-fire-cure: dancing under a full moon in my Jockey shorts while swinging a dead chicken over my head! :-) Well, to make a long story short: I started idly twisting the stepper motor shaft using an Allen wrench, about 15 degrees each way. Decided to attempt to power up the drive one more time before chucking it out the window and over the fence when, LO!, whi-r-r-r-r-r-r. It SPUN! Twisted the shaft of another one, powered it up, and it, too, spun. Whew! Did I back up those disks quickly. First thing next morning, called Seagate (Scotts Valley) QA Manager and discussed my findings. An engineer was consulted and confirmed that the ST251 drive has "failsafes" to prevent main spindle rotation IF the arms don't come out of `park' during the power up sequence. My "twisting" the stepper motor shaft a bit must have loosened up whatever it was that prevented the arms coming out of park. Don't know what, since the drives are normally powered 24 hrs/day, 7 days/week, and they were off for only a few hours while I was experimenting with other aspects of the system. NOW: the interesting thing is, ALL of my ST251 have the same date code: 8707 (a big number stamped alongside the frame). But I've heard in other newsgroups of others having problems with the ST251 also, and the solution was the same "fix." BE FORWARNED: the "fix" is only temporary. The ones I still have continue to exhibit the problem occasionally upon power up. Once the drives are spinning, they operate fine. But I'm really disappointed about these problems and have switched almost exclusively now to other manufacturers (e.g. Maxtor) though I am having excellent performance from an ST157N. As near as I can determine, the problem ONLY exists with the ST251-0 (the "-0" is often identified by an "MLC-0" sticker); the ST251-1 (also MLC-1) drives don't (yet) appear to have such a problem (but perhaps it's too early for the problem to surface). For reference: the MLC-0 drives are the 39mS ones and the MLC-1 drives are the 28mS ones. SUMMARY: twist the stepper motor shaft a wee bit using a dowel, screwdriver, Allen wrench, whatever), power up the drive and get your data off it ASAP. As mine have shown, the drives will continue to present problems, so I'd suggest looking for a replacement HD before yours fails totally. Thad Floryan [thad@cup.portal.com (OR) ...!sun!portal!cup.portal.com!thad] From: jbm@uncle.UUCP (John B. Milton) Newsgroups: comp.sys.att Subject: Re: HELP with 7300 hard disk PLEASE Date: 1 Nov 88 05:02:51 GMT In article <1311@plx.UUCP> walt@plx.UUCP (Walt Novinger ) writes: >My 7300's 40MB Seagate ST251 hard disk suddenly went south the other day, >and I have to get the data off it, if possible. I tried running the >diagnostics disk to test the drive, and it fails on the "recal" test. Are you absolutely sure it's spinning up? I have heard of drives where the baking mechanism stickes to the spindle on shutdown and the next time you power it up, it won't spin up. If it won't spin up, it won't try to move the heads. One solution was dropthe fron of the machine about 6" to jar it loose. I don't think I would recomend that. If it is spinning up, then the lack of recal could be several problems. Bad logic board on the drive. You should be able to get that board replaced and still get the data. BE WARNED if you try to send a drive back for service, even if you mark it to keep the drive part, they will most likely scrap it. The best solution is to get another drive of the same type, a spline head tool and swap the board yourself. The other thing keeping it from recaling might be soft. The diagnostic disk won't tell you the difference between 1. can't move the head to track 0, 2. can't get a track header on the lowest track, and 3. drive is missing the drive magic number. It could be that a tiny glitch has dinged the VHB (Volume Home Block). The bad news is that there isn't much in the way of low level utilities on the UNIXpc to go patching around with. The interactive device test is supposed to almost allow some of this, but it won't work for hard disks, only floppies. My suggestion if you want to see what's REALLY on the disk right now, is to put it on a PClone and get ahold of one of those super fantanstic hard drive programs that are out now. One of those should be able to show you more than you want to know and, at least tell you whether it's a hardware or magware problem. John -- John Bly Milton IV, jbm@uncle.UUCP, n8emr!uncle!jbm@osu-cis.cis.ohio-state.edu (614) h:294-4823, w:764-4272; MS-DOS is a beautiful flower that smells bad! From: mrm@sceard.UUCP (M.R.Murphy) Newsgroups: comp.sys.att Subject: Re: HELP with 7300 hard disk PLEASE Date: 2 Nov 88 16:42:57 GMT In article <10743@cup.portal.com> thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) writes: >Walt Novinger is having problems with his Seagate ST251 ... We had the same problems with ST251-0 drives. Twisting the stepper motor shaft from the underside of the drive with a finger-tip works ok, and the twisting doesn't have to be more than a few degrees. I worry about moving the heads from the parked position, but it's better than going to a backup:-) From: walt@sixwbn.UUCP (Walt Novinger) Newsgroups: comp.sys.att Subject: My hard disk works! Thanks to all! Date: 6 Nov 88 00:05:07 GMT This is a quick note to all who responded to my plea for help with the "gone south" drive on my Unix PC. Several of you (e.g. Thad@cup.portal.com) suggested gently manipulating the stepper motor -- this did the trick. What's even more unbelievable is that when the system rebooted, there were *no* file system errors! I guess I've just been livin' right. Thanks again to all. ========================== end of included messages =========================
jdow@gryphon.COM (J. Dow) (12/06/88)
In article <12712@steinmetz.ge.com> perley@trub.steinmetz.ge.com (Donald P Perley) writes: >In article <49120@pyramid.pyramid.com> eric@pyrps5 (Eric Bergan) writes: >> >> As some of you may recall, at various times I have posted about >>having occasional problems with my Seagate ST-251 locking up with >>the access light on. > >>Anyone know if the drive itself >>can be repaired, and where I would go to have that done? > >I have seen ads in Computer Shopper for places that fix hard drives >for a fixed price (depending on the size of the drive). I seem to recall >that 40 meg drives were somewhere between $100 and $200. I don't recall >the companies names (some help, eh?). At least you know where to look. > One place to check is Workman and Associates in Pasadena. Alex has been repairing Seagates for some time now. His remark is the most common failure is the head position stepper motor's drive IC. That is the little puppy on there that looks like a standard small DIL except the center pair of pins has a web between them for heat sink. The BEST way touse a Seagate drive is with a lot of UNIFORM airflow over it to keep it both cool and at an even temperature all over. Then they will last forever (compared to what usually happens anyway.) -- Sometimes a bird in the hand leaves a sticky deposit. Perhaps it were best it remain there in the bush with the other one. {@_@} jdow@bix (where else?) Sometimes the dragon wins. Sometimes jdow@gryphon.CTS.COM the knight. Does the fair maiden ever {backbone}!gryphon!jdow win? Surely both the knight and dragon stink. Maybe the maiden should suicide? Better yet - she should get an Amiga and quit playing with dragons and knights.