karl@ddsw1.MCS.COM (Karl Denninger) (12/16/88)
In article <1379@leah.Albany.Edu> jac423@leah.Albany.Edu (Julius A Cisek) writes: >In article <3889@hubcap.UUCP>, disd@hubcap.UUCP (Gary Heffelfinger) writes: >> And I hate the games that force me to reboot after every use. I'm not >> using a C64 anymore. Right on. (more below). >Personally I like games that entertain me... Paladin is a product of a >poor imagination and classroom programming, there's nothing special >about it. The game play is a drag. You cannot possibly compare it to >Dungeon Master. So DM takes over the machine, big deal. It's a great >game, and that's what matters to me. Have you seen it? Yes, I have seen it (DM). I also KNOW that DM could do what it does without taking over the machine -- if the programmer's weren't lazy and the publishers werne't solely interested in Copy Protecting things and breaking the nice environment. >> Sail close to the wind. Why must a programmer be sloppy and >> inconsiderate of his users to "sail close to the wind?" > >You're telling me that Jez San who wrote Starglider II is a sloppy >programmer? Ha! Lets see you do three dimentional (filled!) graphix that >move like that! I have seen all kinds of neat graphics that run under the workbench without trashing the system when they are done. And sound, too. EVERY hardware resource on the Amy can be gotten at without "taking over" the entire system. Yes, you can even get rid of the silly workbench borders. Of course you have to be a LITTLE careful when you program, and make sure you do "stupid" things like return your resources to the system when you're done with them -- if you don't want to lose memory or worse. I stand by my assertion that the "reboot requirement" has NOTHING AT ALL to do with performance or ANY OTHER ISSUE than publishers wanting to screw the purchaser over by (1) preventing him/her from copying his/her master disk, (2) preventing him/her from installing the software on a normal fixed-disk partition, and (3) preventing him/her from moving the game to background at some point and doing real work with the system. (ie: when "paused"). >I'd say you need a Porsche with things like DM, Dragon's Lair, and >Starglider II. These programs are not Amoeba, you know... >This I'm not sure on (does the Amiga handle this?), but unless a sample >takes over the system momentarily, it will certainly not work. (It has >to be, after all, a continuous, regular flow of data). So games which >use sampled scores and sounds throughout would have to take the system >over anyway. (I may be wrong, the sound chip may take care of the rates, >so please correct me if you know.) Yep, a Porsche you've got, complete with a very-finely tuned control system that allows you to request and GET direct hardware access to things like the sound channels, the Blitter (even in "nasty" mode!), the Copper, and all those other nice chips in the Amy. All of these can be used in a "real time" environment while leaving the frigging system software ALONE! Of course, if you would rather take the easy way out as a programmer, you can always just take the "Porsche" and toss out the gearshift, transmission and clutch -- that's what the "damn the user, we OWN THIS MACHINE" programmers are doing. Repeat: THERE IS NO TECHNICAL NEED -- NONE -- to disable the entire system UNLESS the programmer is not competent enough to do his/her job correctly. >Some are developers and like good games too... Besides, DM too me is >more than "rad". It's a marvel and a breakthrough in design. Same >applies to Starglider II. And both could be done without hassling the user and making him/her reboot after each play. Both could also have permitted a "pause" that puts the game screen in background and allow you to do work (or even run something like a Telecomm download in the background while playing). Both of these games totally WASTE the power in a Lucas-equipped machine (if they will even boot with the accellerator -- once again, due to publisher manipulation). Darn it, if I pay for 5X the power of an A1000, and the game only requires 1X, I MIGHT WANT TO USE THE OTHER 4X SOMEHOW WHILE PLAYING. Downloading that 3M file from a local system, or recompiling an application would do just fine, and I'm willing to either (1) slow down the game, or (2) slow down the background work to get what I want done accomplished. >> As more Amiga users get hard disks, (and they will) fewer and fewer >> people will be willing to put up with the rebooting after every >> application nonsense. > >Speak for yourself. I don't mind waiting a minute or two. It's not going >to ruin my life... :-) > >> If you throw out the OS, how is your program going to know about my >> hard disk? And even if you can find my hard disk, do I want you f*cking >> with it, and the rest of the data on it, by using your "under the table" >> means? > >This is true. I would certainly not trust such a deal with my data. Stay the _hell_ out of my hardware unless you use the system-defined services and protocols. One day your dandy program is going to run across my wire-wrapped prototype board and decide it's some disk controller you know about -- and all of a sudden my home control system is going to turn on the heat, air conditioning and fire-supression system at the same time. Thanks Mr. Publisher. When I get done drying off the computer I'll be stopping by with that lawsuit... Sorry people, my hardware is used for real work. I can't afford THREE machines, so I purchase ONE. I will NOT be pulling boards and reconfiguring things just so some neato game like DM will like my machine and work properly. Mr. Publisher, wake up to the REAL WORLD or perish. Commodore, if you want people who use these things for BUSINESS and WORK, not as GAME MACHINES ONLY to buy your products, you ought to be steering developers towards friendly-to-the-system products. I'll leave it up to you to figure out how to do that ;-) Or is the Amy really only supposed to be a game machine? If so, I'll forget about buying any of them..... they don't suit my needs if that's all they're good for. >> > reward for pirate busting ? >> > well after he had denounced some name, the snitch will be on the hit list , >> > unable to get on any "GOOD" bbs. and treated like SH*T by other fellow >> > bbs'er (hate mail etc...) > >I don't understand the point here. What the heck is a "GOOD" bbs to this >guy? :-) One he can pirate software from. What I like about this idea is that it makes it profitable to snitch on the pirates -- AND it makes Mr. Parent take a very, very close look at Junior's disk box (and his bbs!!) The second effect might be the most profound for the "kid pirates", and it wouldn't even require that people get "busted". (how many parents would risk losing EVERYTHING THEY HAVE so their kid can have 300 pirated games? ;-) Thieves and pirates are without honor. What scares this "d00d" is that my proposal would actually work. Even if it was done in a "cutthroat" fashion (ie: pirate gives you disk, then snitches on you!) the end result is the same -- people stop pirating software because the probability of getting busted goes WAY up. Kids stop pirating overnight because Mom & Dad find the box of 300 duped disks and BURN them! The way to avoid being punished by the law remains as it always was. Simply don't pirate (or accept duped) software! Go ahead and send me hate mail if you wish -- I proposed the snitch idea. I write software for a living, and sell it for a fair price. If you think you can do better, you are always free to come up with something and either sell it cheaper or give it away. Pirating it is a cop-out, and as defined by the law today, ILLEGAL. This means I, Mr. Publisher, can come after you, Mr. Pirate. And we will. We don't CP or cripple our products, but we certainly WILL use the law to enforce our Copyright and license rights. Would there be a "Dungeon Master" if there were no copyright laws? I doubt anyone would have taken the time to do something that involved for FREE. If you disagree with me (and are good enough with a compiler), then go ahead and write a clone -- put it in the Public Domain! It would ruin the "DM" people overnight. Why don't some of the whiners shut up and show us what you can do? Heh, I just got a better idea! The Amiga and Atari are both hurting for good developers due to the piracy situation. If there was _no_ piracy of their software, everyone and their brother would write code for these machines.... so there is a definate PLUS for the manufacturer. (Atari has had several publishers abandon the machine due to piracy, and it appears the Amiga is next in line for this dubious honor). How about if Commodore and Atari get together with the publishers and offer the rewards? (or help in chasing the bandits) ;-) >Does it entertain me? Does it enthrall me? Who cares if it >takes over my machine. I'm sure that the three games (not Paladin, yuck) >I mentioned here make good use of it. This may be true, but wouldn't you rather have both the enthralling games AND your compile or download purring away in the background? Wouldn't you rather store your games on that nice 200MB SCSI fixed disk you just forked out an enormous sum of cash for? I don't think it would be "nice". For me, it's a required "feature". -- Karl Denninger (karl@ddsw1.MCS.COM, ddsw1!karl) Data: [+1 312 566-8912], Voice: [+1 312 566-8910] Macro Computer Solutions, Inc. "Quality solutions at a fair price"